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quade

DB Cooper

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In the news video I like the way they are dragging the evidence (chute) around on the garage floor. Not your typical way to handle evidence i would think.



That is exactly what I was thinking. Why not bring some dogs in and let them tear at it for a while. Then we will determine if it is real.

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That certainly can't be true otherwise why would FBI Special Agent Robbie Burroughs be there?



Is it possible that they also have spare time? Seems like ALOT of people would be very interested in this case if new evidence came to light.

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but as far as I'm concerned, the entire thing is a waste of tax payer money and a distraction from solving crimes that actually can be solved.



certainly an opinion that would shared by many people. However this Forum is about Skydiving history. There has never been a more Notorious Jumper (Notice I dont say Skydiver because That has never been proven) than Dan/DB Cooper. He is forever intertwined into the history of this sport whether we like it or not.

This is an extremely high profile case that has baffled the FBI for over 35 years. Perhaps the most famous unsolved case ever.

What real benefit would there be to finally finding answers? None really other than finally knowing the answers. Sometimes that is enough.


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At some point you have to let it go because it simply can not be proven no matter what.



But in this case, we may (very slight chance but its there) be able to finally put this to rest. If (HUGE IF) there is a Harness buried there and DB`s remains are in it.. We will finally know.. He didn’t make it. Identifying him may not be possible but having the remains brings up all kind of new possibilities. If the Harness is there and it is empty, We know most likely (But not certainly) he did make it.

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It seems like a grader or dozer could easily "unpack" a rig and drag the canopy and lines out of the container.


Could be. If he bulldozed a body, then there's bones probably scattered everywhere in that pile.

I can tell you this (which may not help anyone here) but Earl Cossey did say the big disadvantage to the chute that Cooper used was finding the rip cord. Someone had suggested that perhaps he said "hard to pull" but he literally said "hard to find". Does that sound like the harness you're theorizing about???

Ckret, you have hundreds of people here who would love to volunteer and help.

I don't think there'd be any Indian burial issues unless they found a bone. Then there'd be a five year study to determine if anyone else is allowed to sift through the dirt. As it is now, no bones, should be able to dig.

Quade, good points about other agents now having their smiling faces taken with the chute. That's "bureau"cracy for you. Also, it's good to have you chiming in every now and then with your objective outsider point of view. I forget sometimes that not everyone is a compulsive Cooper fantantic freak like myself. I'm thankful you're willing to offer your take from time to time.

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Ckret, you have hundreds of people here who would love to volunteer and help.



This hour's WA news update: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110ap_db_cooper.html

Quote: "The FBI doesn't want to excavate the property until it confirms, either through an expert's examination or scientific analysis of the fabric, whether the chute is the right kind."

So, it looks like we're not going to see a rig (or more) unless the canopy tests out. By another poster's link we see Earl Cossey being interviewed. He doesn't seem to be too impressed with the find.

Perhaps this is the dummy reserve, which makes more sense that the fabric's appears to be wrong for the canopy Cooper used?

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

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What I want to know is why havent the owner of the field and his kids done more digging? If Something like that were found on my land I would be out there night and day.
“Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, th

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Ckret, if you're reading, write me back and I'll arrange to get you some help in digging over the weekend.



Perhaps this article (along with a "How to Help" link) is his way of communicating with us. Sounds like he's a pretty busy man right now, not only with this case, but his regular work load as well.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/356407_cooper26.html?source=mypi

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

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One other side note about "solving" this crime, hoaxes, keeping it a mystery, finding this parachute and the possible motivations of it being planted.

Local legends and hoaxes are "good" for certain local economies.

All one has to do is look at he numerous little local economies that surround; The Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot, Area 51, Roswell and even Punxsutawney Phil.

My guess is more than a couple of shekel have been pumped into the local economy over the last two weeks as a result of this story. And it's certainly the motivation for most book authors of similar topics.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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On the face of it, the years do not match. Cooper's chute was 1959 and this one is 46.

Which is easier, to dig up the rest or to do some fancy "fiber" analysis?

The only reason this gets me pumped a bit is that Ckret is saying it was found pretty much on line AB. That's like throwing a dart at a board from 50 feet blindfolded from behind your back and hitting the bullseye.

Here's a question for you and for everyone else... yes, I'm a total WHUFFO (though I might visit my local tunnel tomorrow)....
Would the dummy front harness have a chute like this in it???? Wouldn't it just have rags?

I'm convinced that Javelin1 is someone who was in the "know" regarding this find. It's just too weird to have someone asking for Cossey at the exact time when this chute was discovered.

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Most people do not know about line AB.

But if someone were to visit this thread and read Ckret's posts, plus try to decipher the low res map he posted (plus I may have posted some coordinates before today but I can't recall), then they'd know where to hide a chute.

This is one reason why I think if it were a total hoax, it would probably have been done (hidden) a long time ago and not just last month. It would have had to be pure luck or someone associated with the case.

This is probably total coincidence.
Right now, I'm probably thinking 80% coincidence and 20% authentic.

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Which is easier, to dig up the rest or to do some fancy "fiber" analysis?



Don't know which is easier, especially since the FBI has the tools right there at their fingertips to do fiber analysis. Easier (and cleaner) do to that than take up the time, money, and effort to do a dig. According to an interview, Carr says that the fiber analysis will be done this weekend.

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Here's a question for you and for everyone else... yes, I'm a total WHUFFO (though I might visit my local tunnel tomorrow)....
Would the dummy front harness have a chute like this in it???? Wouldn't just have rags?



Are we talking Fandago here, where there'd just be 'laundry' in the pack job? Why not have a very old (and useless) parachute in a dummy reserve pack?

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I'm convinced that Javelin1 is someone who was in the "know" regarding this find. It's just too weird to have someone asking for Cossey at the exact time when this chute was discovered.



I'm sure that you're correct in this guess. They found the suspect canopy and immediately -knew- the only one with the answer would be Cossey, and sought him out. Pretty good, for a wuffo. ;^)

Here's another Carr video, which doesn't reveal anything new to us (who've been following these 2 threads since the beginning) but he -does- say the found canopy is the right color and the right size. Hmmmmm.....

http://www.abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/FedCrimes/Story?id=4524127&page=2

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

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Thank you for posting that link!

I'm going to go ahead and give myself a pat on the back for this quote:

Carr said that if Cooper landed where the parachute was found, it would be impossible for the ransom money to end up where it did by natural means.

That sure sounds like someone I see every morning in the mirror.

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Thank you for clearing that up mark. It took me about 3 seconds to think through what you were saying, then it made sense.

So if anyone is still confused, the NB6 is an emergency rig. Therefore, it's a reserve chute to be used in case of an emergency. Plus, it had no D rings and could not be considered a "main"

Correct me if I'm wrong.

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Cooper got two main chutes and two reserves.



No. He got two back-type reserves, one chest-type reserve, and one dummy that looked like a chest-type reserve. He did not get any main parachutes.

Mark



Mark, are the back reserves the kind a Navy pilot would use in a bail-out situation? Seems that I remember Carr stating something like that in one of his interviews.

And if so, are they anything like the rigs worn today by pilots as bail-out rigs? Soft and eas(ier) to sit on hour after hour.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

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On the face of it, the years do not match. Cooper's chute was 1959 and this one is 46.



I remember reading that the harness/container was 1959. That doesn't say anything about what year his parachute was manufactured. 1946 seems pretty old for a parachute, but I'm not educated at all about older parachute fabrics.
Owned by Remi #?

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Yeah, would they really give Cooper a chute that's 25 years old??

This goes back to it being stuffing in the dummy chute. It also goes back to my knee jerk thought "it's too old"...

Malcolm Gladwell (Blink) would be all over me for wasting my time about this chute when my initial reaction was "too old"
ha ha ha ha ha

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Yeah, would they really give Cooper a chute that's 25 years old??

This goes back to it being stuffing in the dummy chute. It also goes back to my knee jerk thought "it's too old"...

Malcolm Gladwell (Blink) would be all over me for wasting my time about this chute when my initial reaction was "too old"
ha ha ha ha ha



You're thinking too logically. When the rigs were requested Cossey didn't know what they were going to be used for. Why would he give them a dummy reserve if he did? The FBI asked, and he complied with "4 parachutes (2 back and 2 front)", which was what was requested.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

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Thank you!

Obviously logic did not rule the day nor did any significant level of examination (dummy chute by accident)...

Maybe I should rephrase the question:
What's the liklihood that Issaquah had a 25 yr old chute in a NB6 packed and ready for use?

I do not think it's the dummy chute unless the flight path was off (east)... remember that the chute was recovered east of point A (no-pull). I've been told something like this can drift further than a person (and I believe that), but Carr was pointing to an area 2.3 miles NE of point A. 1.5 miles NE of point U. Point U is where the eastward most flight path (half a nautical mile east from the flight path) intercepts line AB.

Could a pack drift 1.5 miles? If so, then maybe it is the dummy chute. It would mean the "real" chute is south of there somewhere (he likely threw the dummy before he jumped).

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Thank you!

Obviously logic did not rule the day nor did any significant level of examination (dummy chute by accident)...

Maybe I should rephrase the question:
What's the liklihood that Issaquah had a 25 yr old chute in a NB6 packed and ready for use?



You're welcome.

However, I think 'logic' was fine with Cossey when he complied with what was asked. For all he knew this was for a classroom demonstration and nothing more. If he knew that there actually -was- a possibility of them having to be airworthy then he would have been more discerning with what he gave.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

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The container is still in the ground.... why? How hard is it to spend half a day with some equipment and go through the piled dirt? Wouldn't it be more resposbible to do that then to go on TV and make national headlines if it's the wrong chute?

.................

i was wondering the same thing, Dig it up before the looters come.

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Yes, there's an error in Ckret's reasoning...

They want to "prove" it's the chute before they excavate the property. No one says they have to dig up the whole property, just go back to the dirt pile and get the container!!!!!

If warranted, they can always do a more extensive search for other things (body, attache case, money bag *which would not be likely)

This is making the news all over... CNN, ABC, NBC. This is not a local thing, someone is going to go there and get it if the FBI or the family doesn't wise up and get it first.

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Mark, are the back reserves the kind a Navy pilot would use in a bail-out situation? Seems that I remember Carr stating something like that in one of his interviews.

And if so, are they anything like the rigs worn today by pilots as bail-out rigs? Soft and eas(ier) to sit on hour after hour.



To your first question: yes. To your second question: sort of.

Mark

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What's the likelihood that Issaquah had a 25 yr old chute in a NB6 packed and ready for use?



Not unreasonable at all. A normally maintained 25-year-old nylon canopy in a pilot rig would meet the original specs. Nylon is not affected by mildew or rot, and is not much affected by age. Last year I came across a canopy from 1962 that had been in use in a pilot rig until 2002 or so. A frugal DZO might not see any reason to replace a canopy that wasn't going to be jumped.

Mark

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