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quade

DB Cooper

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"2000 foot grass runway just nort of NE Farr Rd."

Years from now when they dig up Elsinore Parachute Center they are going to be finding all kinds of goodies from the old days. If there was a DZ there at any time then you have your answer.
Green Light
"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."
"Your statement answered your question."

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looking at the video it does not appear to me to be a 26 conical(yeah i know they are calling it a 26 ft long conical shaped canopy), the radial seams appear to be the type used in a 28 ft canopy ( 1 '' seam with suspension line running thru the middle of the seam.)it is hard to tell tho from the quality of the images.

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looking at the video it does not appear to me to be a 26 conical(yeah i know they are calling it a 26 ft long conical shaped canopy), the radial seams appear to be the type used in a 28 ft canopy ( 1 '' seam with suspension line running thru the middle of the seam.)it is hard to tell tho from the quality of the images.



Which, if it's found to be a positive match to the one DB used, will settle the argument once and for all whether it was a 26 or 28 that he used.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

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there are more pictures on yahoo. it is not db coopers parachute(actually maybe it was the 2nd chute he jumped with?).wrong serial number(does not match the serial # that ckret gave up in the the other cooper thread) and date of manufacture is like 1946!this would be a nylon twill canopy, possibley 24 foot.made before canopies were made of ripstop.if cooper had landed under this thing he probably would have been hurt. nylon twill porosity is something like 120 to 160 cfm!(versus 80 to120cfm for ripstop)

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there are more pictures on yahoo. it is not db coopers parachute.wrong serial number and date of manufacture is like 1946!this would be a nylon twill canopy, possibley 24 foot.made before canopies were made of ripstop.sorry guys,lets keep lookin. the truth is out there. maybe this was a hoax???



Yahoo Canopy Pictures

Oh well. [:/] Now to refresh my memory, what year was the canopy made that we're looking for?

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

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Be thankful that he did this in the NW instead of the South.

Smuggling is like a sport along the Gulf Coast.

Airplanes were routinely crash-landed in swamps as expendable transport. When I hunted in the national forests and the bombing ranges, we found canopies all the time (sans attachments).

People used them for free sun protection at camp sites.

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Be thankful that he did this in the NW instead of the South.

Smuggling is like a sport along the Gulf Coast.

Airplanes were routinely crash-landed in swamps as expendable transport. When I hunted in the national forests and the bombing ranges, we found canopies all the time (sans attachments).

People used them for free sun protection at camp sites.



'Hunted'... Sure:)


.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

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2)will they find an Empty harness?



Total conjecture, but my first thought was that IF the canopy they found was Cooper's, a missing container/harness would make lots of sense. Get rid of the canopy/lines, and you have a pretty decent backpack for carrying the money. But why would he cut the lines when all he had to do was pop the Capewells? Even if he had never seen a rig before that night and didn't know how easy it was to chop the canopy, wouldn't it be easier to just cut the risers instead of messing with the lines? Did he even have a knife? What if all he had was a hooknife (perhaps the rig came with one)? Will a hooknife cut through risers? If not, then it would make sense that the lines were cut.

Still, it's hard to believe anyone would do the jump without having even a basic understaning of the gear and its operation.

So if my theory is correct and he hoofed it outta there with a backpack full of money, there won't be a harness and/or container found. Too many "if's", but it's fun to think about.
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4) was there a DZ close? (Ralfph, chime in if required!)



A longtime local will know for sure, but probably not w/in ~10 miles of where the KOIN video image seemed (to me, anyway) s canopy may have been found. Woodland State Airport, on I-5 at Woodland is the closest field that makes sense for a DZ, past or present.

Here's a link to an airport-data.com listing for what might be the closest FAA registered airport, McClellan Field. Click on "Nearby Airports" to see others w/in a ~10 mile radius: http://www.airport-data.com/airport/WA80/.

For reference, the green blob (Cedar Creek State WMA) between Ariel, Fargher, and Amboy is a bit SE of what the news video indicated to be the canopy dig-up location.

IIRC, Pearson Field was the "Vancouver DZ" when a friend did his student jumps in the early 80's:http://www.airport-data.com/airport/VUO/.
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6)would a canopy last that while burrried?



It would probably last a lot longer than if it were sitting in the sun.... No idea for how long, though.
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Assuming the canopy itself had a Mfr/Build Date/Serial number on it, how would it have been applied? Ink? Embroidered? Sewn-on embroidered tag? Other? None? I wonder how long ink/dye might last.

EDIT: Just saw the pics.



-----------

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

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ckret already posted the serial number in the other db cooper thread. it does not match the one they found (at least for the nb6,orNB8 that he jumped with. )the nb6/8would have been the one deployed because it was the only one he was given which he could actually attach himself to(i.e. it had a harness)the chest pack that he jumped with would have been worthless to save his life because there were NO D rings to attach it to the nb6/8 harness.if he pulled the chest pack ,it would have departed from his body.(hmmm.. maybe it is the chest pack chute that they found,IIRC, ckret never revealed the serial number for that one)also now that i think about it, one way for a canopy to last this long would be if it was packed in its container for most of the last 37 years,and sometime not too long ago,the container disintegrated and allowed the canopy to be exposed.hmmm,maybe there is a body there.

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I take a day off and HOLY #$#$!

From what I'm hearing regarding the location, it's not *exactly* in the FBI calculated LZ, but it's not that far away either. I need to know more about where this property is. Timeline does not seem to be an issue, and it's close enough to the LZ that it's not unquestionable or anything like that.

The year of the chute... that's an old chute. Perhaps, just perhaps we know why someone was asking about Earl Cossey earlier this month! He's probably the first guy to talk to regarding the chute.

It's still early, but this is the DZ community's baby now. Guys like me cannot determine if this is the chute.

I will go on record though... if it turned out to be Cooper's chute, there's almost no doubt that he survived. That area feeds Merwin/Lewis River, and there's no way money would get to the 1980 location without help. If there's no bones near the chute, or teeth marks on the harness, then it would almost eliminate someone finding the money, which would then, in turn, mean that Cooper survived.

Well, the phone calls I was going to make should be put on hold. I was going to call some people to find out why they were so sure of the timeline, but if this turns out to be the chute, it will match the timeline perfectly.

Wow... guys, see what you can do... work your research magic.
It may help if quade let's Ckret off early for "good behavior". :ph34r:

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i must admit after reading about this story on a more than a few news sources after first posting the link this morning. all of the articles end in saying

"There are no obvious markings on the parachute to indicate whether it's the type Cooper used, a Navy Backpack 6 with a 26-foot canopy, Carr said. He's hoping a member of the public who has expertise in the parachutes will come forward and confirm whether it's the right kind before the FBI bothers to excavate the property. Barring that, the agency could turn to scientific analysis of the fabric."


has anyone actually thought about contacting the FBI in that area to come forward and help, does anyone have a NB6?? that they can give to use as an example??

i am a military rigger i am going to call a friend to see if they have one sitting around.

i have tried to read most of the threads about DB. and watch everything that comes on the tv that i can catch. but i have not read all of it, so please dont yell if someone has already contacted the FBI in trying to help
"the sky is not the limit....the ground is"

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also just found this. article in seattle newspaper..better pics

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110ap_db_cooper.html?source=mypi

The serial number 30755 and the date Feb. 21, 1946 are stamped on a parachute found in North Clark County, Wash. as seen in Seattle on Tuesday, March 25, 2008. The FBI is working to find out if it is linked to the infamous D.B. Cooper case from 1971. (AP Photo/Kevin P. Casey)


this was the caption of the picture of the parachutes numbers.
"the sky is not the limit....the ground is"

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People have said the serials do not match. I tried to find it, but could not. Ckret said the FBI had the serial numbers for the chutes. That was all I saw.

Do the backpacks have serial numbers on them, or did Cossey give the FBI the numbers and then they figured out which one was missing??

Ckret said:
The backback Cooper jumped with was an NB6 manufactured in 1959.

If true, the chute that was found is too old.

Ckret also said:
In Cossey's statement to the FBI on 11/26/1971, 4th paragraph "...he described the missing back pack parachute as having a sage green nylon container, model NB6 with sage green nylon harness, which harness has no "D" rings to mount a chest pack."

There was so much debate here whether it was a 28' round or a 26' conical.... wouldn't that debate be fairly pointless if Ckret posted the serial number of the chute? Wouldn't the serial number tell us what type of chute it was?

I'm a little torn. Part of me wants to think this would be it, but the other part of me knows just because you find a chute doesn't mean it was Coopers. What makes me think is just how close this was to the LZ. If I were Ckret, I'd be double checking the facts... which it sounds like he's wanting to do, before actually going down there and doing some "real" work.

The container is still in the ground.... why? How hard is it to spend half a day with some equipment and go through the piled dirt? Wouldn't it be more resposbible to do that then to go on TV and make national headlines if it's the wrong chute?

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I watched the video and two things really stood out to me...

1. They haven't even investigated this or retrieved the container and yet they're on TV. Part of me thinks it's irresponsible and part of me understands that it generates interest and tips from the public so it's understandable.

2. Where they're saying it was found is on the outer edge of the calculated LZ. Further, north-south wise, it would put the plane smack dab when they thought it most probable Cooper jumped.

The video articulated that Carr was skeptical based on "other" stuff that he knows. I'm speculating that the other stuff he knows is that this location cannot explain the find in 1980 and that's the part that makes him skeptical.

I'm skeptical, but for different reasons.

I'm attaching the graphic that they showed on TV. It's not that clear, but fits what Jim already posted.

Just so everyone here knows, I have never doubted the original FBI search area. There's no reason for me to believe he came down anywhere else.

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"How hard is it to spend half a day with some equipment and go through the piled dirt?"

The government is a funny creature. I was asking the same question when Inyo County was trying to get money together to go dig up Barkers Ranch area in Death Valley looking for bodies from the Manson gang era. After many cadaver dog hits you would think they could just run a backhoe down there and dig but NOOOO.... They said they had no money for that. Finally they dug and from what I understand they found graves.

So it does not surprise me that they are taking their sweet time diggin up this chute. And they could use a cadaver dog to help their cause if there is a hit there. Ya the government seems pretty darn stupid at times.
Green Light
"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."
"Your statement answered your question."

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also just found this. article in seattle newspaper..better pics

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110ap_db_cooper.html?source=mypi



Quote from the article: "Carr hopped in his car and drove down. He dug around the property for about 45 minutes, unsuccessfully looking for a harness or other remains from the parachute, but the children weren't home, and the father wasn't sure exactly where they found it."

Like I said in a previous post, wish those kids had NOT cut the lines. An intact item is much more easily located again. :|

Perhaps if Ckret (Carr) had been lead to the exposed canopy he'd have a better chance of digging a bit further and finding more conclusive evidence. Wonder if the kids will be able to locate the spot again? Nothing exposed. No marker placed...

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

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Just a quick note while I research.

Here is a screen capture from the FOX video showing Car pointing to where the chute was found.

I'll post a good topo map of the area ASAP and make a high-res map available via personla e-mail (if anyone wants one.

Isn't this fun?

Sluggo

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"when all he had to do was pop the capewells"...
NB6 or NB8 harnesses DO NOT have canopy releases.



Thank for the correction dumstuntzz. Was that type of harness ever modified to install releases?
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Some of the news reports say that Mr. Carr hopes to find some sort of label on the canopy they found, and then match it with a reserve left on the plane. Any idea what he's means by that?

Also, do you think that "30755" mark on the canopy is a serial number? If so, it doesn't sound like the FBI recorded the numbers, which I assume would have meant opening and repacking each one. Probably wasn't enough time for that.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

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