dumstuntzz 0 #501 March 27, 2008 they are also calling it a conical shaped canopy which it si NOT. navy conicals were not produced that early. take everything you hear about this from the media and even the FBI with a grain of salt.there is SO MUCH misinformation surrounding this thing it makes me ill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zarkon 0 #502 March 27, 2008 http://www.abcnews.go.com/...d=4524127&page=2 That video has all sorts of misinformation. They say he called himself DB Cooper and the simulation shows him using a square...guess I shouldn't be surprised Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #503 March 27, 2008 Broken linkOwned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sluggo_Monster 0 #504 March 27, 2008 Quotethey are also calling it a conical shaped canopy which it si NOT. navy conicals were not produced that early. take everything you hear about this from the media and even the FBI with a grain of salt.there is SO MUCH misinformation surrounding this thing it makes me ill. Ditto dumstuntzz. This has been "our" problem all along. We never know what is fact and what is myth or mis-interpretation by the media. Maybe, being "on top of it" this time, we can ultimately get the truth out of the noise. Sluggo_Monster Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SafecrackingPLF 0 #505 March 27, 2008 Thank you for clearing that up. I'm catching A LOT of the media's mistakes left and right as I watch. It's mostly the TV people who get it wrong, but there have been errors in the printed paper as well. Ckret... we know you visit. Someone has noted your log ins. I'm happy that someone respectable finally said it... and this is monumental and was NEVER admitted by anyone of authority: "If this is D.B. Cooper's parachute, the money could not have arrived at its discovery location by natural means," Carr said. "That whole theory is out the window." That's big PROPS to the DZ thread right there. Everyone who had a hand in putting those posts together back in January (NickDG, Ckret, Sluggo, 377, Orange1, 1969912 , Guru312, low_pull, BGill, Zing, Ryodar, Windsor, and quade for allowing us to keep posting on this rehashed subject)... Like I said, we did something special. For 36 yrs that old theory was the theory, and the original landing area was the landing area... it's now accepted, the two are mutually exclusive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SafecrackingPLF 0 #506 March 27, 2008 Quotesimulation shows him using a square...guess I shouldn't be surprised Yeah I laughed out loud when I saw the parachute open so quick and there was a modern square canopy... he also never went into basic position. Then, I got to thinking that their graphic designers who put the video together may not have had an image of a round... funny stuff though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
low_pull1 2 #507 March 27, 2008 come on ............................. In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cooper got two main chutes and two reserves. ------------------------------------------------------------ No. He got two back-type reserves, one chest-type reserve, and one dummy that looked like a chest-type reserve. He did not get any main parachutes. Mark ................ any reserve can be used as a main (hope im correct with any) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #508 March 27, 2008 Quote http://www.abcnews.go.com/...d=4524127&page=2 That video has all sorts of misinformation. They say he called himself DB Cooper and the simulation shows him using a square...guess I shouldn't be surprised Anything the media "says" we all take with a very large grain of salt. However, when Carr speaks I quote him. He's either got the facts in hand, or is making a wuffo mistake (which he is very willing to learn about and correct). ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #509 March 27, 2008 QuoteAnyone thought this could just be a hoax? First thought that came to my mind when I saw it. As should pretty much everyone should be when "given" evidence rather than finding it on their own.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raftman 12 #510 March 27, 2008 Just saw another Cooper story on Fox while channel surfing. I'm thinkin' with the media feeding frenzy thats going on now and all, the best thing ol' Coop could do IF he were still alive would be to out himself LIVE on nat'l. TV! Think of the book and movie rights! You'll make millions, You gotta be an old fart now. Why not enjoy the limelight while you're still hot media-wise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #511 March 27, 2008 "On the fip side, maybe the FBI will then come and confiscate all your assets" NO WAY. By the way I can't get the reply and quote things to work for me. I am just trying to read ALL of this. I went outside to pull weeds until dark just to get away from the phone. I did not get a chance to eat until I just shut it all out. If that is Cooper's chute then the things Duane showed me and the things he said - it is all there. Funny thing I noticed on the map "Grist Mill". In one of the books it mentions this and the fact that they thought someone broke into it. Is this a false memory or is it infact in one of the "Cooper" Books? I am hoping against all hope that this is Coopers chute - but the last 13 yrs has its ups and downs. If he did use the pack after he landed to put the money into as someone suggested then this might be what he left at the tower behind the shed further on down the road. That would make sense to me. He has to hide the money (or most of it) and come back for it later. Who knows - if it was me that is what I would have done. By then he has changed clothes and looks like a ranger or fisherman just out doing his thing....walking the lines to FREEDOM. I still can't download the maps and things. Got to get someone out here to fix this darn thing. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #512 March 27, 2008 QuoteThey want to "prove" it's the chute before they excavate the property. No one says they have to dig up the whole property, just go back to the dirt pile and get the container!!!!! If warranted, they can always do a more extensive search for other things (body, attache case, money bag *which would not be likely) This is making the news all over... CNN, ABC, NBC. This is not a local thing, someone is going to go there and get it if the FBI or the family doesn't wise up and get it first. This is my main concern - If it is the right thing - treasure hunters will be all over it. Or are they going to hire a guard out there until "they" decide what to do. There is something wrong with this picture and I do not have a good feeling. The FBI never likes to admit they could be wrong - if it disappears over night then - guess what -they don't have to admitt that they have been wrong. I understand that Carr continues to PUBLICALLY say that Duane has been disqualified. HOW MANY TIMES do I have to tell THE FBI about that damn tie , Carr? Why, Carr, don't you talk about THE MISSING CIGARETTE BUTTS? One FBI agent had reason to "loose" the butts because he took the tie to show to Mrs. McCoy. Mrs. McCoy didn't go to WA. Please - INVESTIGATE THE TIE - DO NOT DISQUALIFY DUANE L. WEBER....UNTIL THE FBI PRODUCES THE CIGARETTE BUTTS THEY CANNOT DISALLOW WEBER. Just got to let it out right now. I just want to scream at the top of my lungs, but I would surely be admitted to the nearest LOCO house.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #513 March 27, 2008 Quote http://www.abcnews.go.com/...d=4524127&page=2 That video has all sorts of misinformation. They say he called himself DB Cooper and the simulation shows him using a square...guess I shouldn't be surprised Fixed link? http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/FedCrimes/story?id=4524127&page=1 ----------------------- "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #514 March 27, 2008 QuoteFixed link? Yup, thanksOwned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #515 March 27, 2008 Quote Quote It seems like a grader or dozer could easily "unpack" a rig and drag the canopy and lines out of the container. Could be. If he bulldozed a body, then there's bones probably scattered everywhere in that pile. I can tell you this (which may not help anyone here) but Earl Cossey did say the big disadvantage to the chute that Cooper used was finding the rip cord. Someone had suggested that perhaps he said "hard to pull" but he literally said "hard to find". Does that sound like the harness you're theorizing about??? "Theory" and/or "theorizing" was a poor choice of words on my part. It's more like brainstorming. Nothing to do with any harness. I was responding to this comment that you made in an upthread post: Quote "The chute was deployed, not packed. If it was Cooper's chute, someone pulled the RC. Probably not a no-pull, which would then require that he died even though he pulled the RC." Clarified (or not) comments: Why? What if the bellywart were buried by Cooper after a successful jump using the back container canopy? Even if it were not sewn shut, it's very unlikely to have been deployed on the jump. He buries the bellywart by itself, w/o a harness or back container (Can't call the back container/canopy a main because legally it's a reserve. Beers for dumstuntzz...). All he buries there is the bellywart. The back container is now a backpack full of cash, and the canopy from that container is buried somewhere else. FFWD to a couple weeks ago. Grader and/or dozer hits the bellywart and stresses the canvas container until it rips open. The skinnier, more slippery and more compliant nylon canopy inside slides under the dozer blade and gets changed from a tightly packed bundle into what appears to be a deployed (jumped n popped) canopy. A bit long winded, but I'm just trying to show how the bellywart container/canopy could have been buried packed/unused/sewn shut, and then artificially "deployed" years later with no harness/back container/back canopy connected or even nearby. --------------- --------------- So the canopy they found (assumed for now to be the dummy bellywart Cooper used) was never, and couldn't have been deployed, and there is no harness/back container/back canopy there. The canvas bellywart container oughtta be there someplace, but who knows how far it was dragged by the blade. It could be right where the canopy was snipped from its lines, or it could be a hundred feet away. In any case, the canopy they found is the one that ckret never disclosed an S/N for. Why not? I don't believe he has one for it. As a dummy, it falls under no regulations, AFAIK. It could have been packed with the 1946 canopy by anyone, and the canopy S/N might not have even been looked at dering the packjob. Why bother? It's not a parachute component. Why pay a rigger to pack it? So, W/O an S/N for what was in the dummy bellywart, the canopy might be impossible to link or unlink to Cooper. Not sure what ckret is doing in an effort to get around that obstacle, but I'd like to know. Note that Earl Cossey recently (last couple days) was claimed to have said that he "...has the S/N in a logbook...and will give it to the FBI...." (paraphrased non-quote). I have no idea what component(s) the S/N is for, but my guess is that it's for the belly reserve container, and not for the canopy that was used in the dummy bellywart. Link to Cossey article: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/356529_cooper27.html?source=mypi Look near bottom of page. ----- FLAW in my non-theory thought experiment: What made it so hard to yank the riser end of the lines out of the ground? The only thing I can think of is a back container and/or harness, possibly with back container canopy (not main) attached. Could be a body skeleton in the harness as well. Oh yeah, the $200,000 could be part of the anchor. Well, actually $200,000 minus ~$6,000 that a seagull, thinking it was food, pulled out of the bag and then dropped on the ground. The wind later picked up the stack of bills and blew it South all the way to a tributary of the Washougal river, where it began its float trip downriver, through LaCamas Lake and past its debris skimmer/screen system, into the Columbia, and eventually to Frenchman's bar, where it washed up on the sandy beach (BTW, its trip only took 5 years or so. No big deal.) Before the wind or water could take it away again, a drunk kid (who may or may not have paid the $.25 access fee to the land owner) stepped on the stack of bills, pushing it into the sand so that it was stuck there well enough to endure a few years of wave action as sand built up, layer upon layer, until it was completely buried. The rest is history...... ----------------------- Jim ----------------------- "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 102 #516 March 27, 2008 Quote Clarified (or not) comments: Why? What if the bellywart were buried by Cooper after a successful jump using the back container canopy? Even if it were not sewn shut, it's very unlikely to have been deployed on the jump. He buries the bellywart by itself, w/o a harness or back container (Can't call the back container/canopy a main because legally it's a reserve. Beers for dumstuntzz...). All he buries there is the bellywart. The back container is now a backpack full of cash, and the canopy from that container is buried somewhere else. FFWD to a couple weeks ago. Grader and/or dozer hits the bellywart and stresses the canvas container until it rips open. The skinnier, more slippery and more compliant nylon canopy inside slides under the dozer blade and gets changed from a tightly packed bundle into what appears to be a deployed (jumped n popped) canopy. A bit long winded, but I'm just trying to show how the bellywart container/canopy could have been buried packed/unused/sewn shut, and then artificially "deployed" years later with no harness/back container/back canopy connected or even nearby. --------------- --------------- So the canopy they found (assumed for now to be the dummy bellywart Cooper used) was never, and couldn't have been deployed, and there is no harness/back container/back canopy there. The canvas bellywart container oughtta be there someplace, but who knows how far it was dragged by the blade. It could be right where the canopy was snipped from its lines, or it could be a hundred feet away. In any case, the canopy they found is the one that ckret never disclosed an S/N for. Why not? I don't believe he has one for it. As a dummy, it falls under no regulations, AFAIK. It could have been packed with the 1946 canopy by anyone, and the canopy S/N might not have even been looked at dering the packjob. Why bother? It's not a parachute component. Why pay a rigger to pack it? So, W/O an S/N for what was in the dummy bellywart, the canopy might be impossible to link or unlink to Cooper. Not sure what ckret is doing in an effort to get around that obstacle, but I'd like to know. Note that Earl Cossey recently (last couple days) was claimed to have said that he "...has the S/N in a logbook...and will give it to the FBI...." (paraphrased non-quote). I have no idea what component(s) the S/N is for, but my guess is that it's for the belly reserve container, and not for the canopy that was used in the dummy bellywart. Link to Cossey article: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/356529_cooper27.html?source=mypi Look near bottom of page. FLAW in my non-theory thought experiment: What made it so hard to yank the riser end of the lines out of the ground? The only thing I can think of is a back container and/or harness, possibly with back container canopy (not main) attached. Could be a body skeleton in the harness as well. ----------------------- Jim ----------------------- The rig Cooper used did not have rings to attach a chest pack. So your theory is that Cooper hand-carried a chest pack out the door, held on to it through opening shock, landed with it, and buried it. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #517 March 27, 2008 Quote The rig Cooper used did not have rings to attach a chest pack. So your theory is that Cooper hand-carried a chest pack out the door, held on to it through opening shock, landed with it, and buried it. Mark Consider your post to be the revision. I'm tired of writing this crap. So much for the "anchor" that prevented the kids from yanking the lines out of the ground. Gotta find a way to make the canopy be Cooper's. An entire industry depends on it-------- Seriously though. If he used a harness w/o attach points (have you seen solid verification it's true?), why wasn't the dummy just left on the plane? Thanks! jim "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SafecrackingPLF 0 #518 March 27, 2008 Quotewhy wasn't the dummy just left on the plane? We were asking that months ago. I think the best proposal came from Orange1 when he suggested it was used to judge the slipstream before the jump. Which, if this recovered parachute is the dummy, it would mean the real parachute is south of where this one was found. Also, with the seagull thought experiment, it would require the seagull to place the three packs of bills pretty much right at where it was found. It would not drift downstream and washup (float time is 10 minutes when totally dry) and the bills would not stay together (drift apart). After thinking about this whole thing for a day, my thinking goes like this: Too coincidental; Would never rule out this find as being part of Cooper evidence without obtaining the harness; if it's planted evidence, it's one hell of a plant; the FBI would not have planted this recently nor would they manufacture a canopy in this area because Ckret has admitted the LZ in question does not support the accepted theory; perhaps the accepted theory is the reason no one has dug up the harness yet (two weeks later!).... think about it, if you have an entire organization that believes Cooper died on impact, and then they come across something that might be evidence, they would be operating under the notion that there's a body to exume and money to retrieve and that it would be an exhaustive search... let's "prove" this is the canopy before we go and do all that. Then you have Ckret, who had to change his theory to fit the facts, thinking the LZ is much further SE and he's probably thinking "no way, can't be it"... and thus, no one goes and gets the critical artifact (harness). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dumstuntzz 0 #519 March 27, 2008 the chest chute might have had what we called a "belly band".it is a length of webbing with a snap(b-4,b-12,or quick ejector) on each end. belly band is threaded thru the webbing handle at each end of the backside of the pack and the snaps are hooked to the harness.a belly band would have held the chest pack to cooper if it was hooked up. it would not have kept the chest chute attached to cooper if it had been deployed however also,the snaps at the end of the lines stick thru a hole near each top corner.the snaps are gennerally tackled down with very heavy cotton or nylon thread(5 or 6 cord 45 to 50 lb tensile per turn).what this means is that even tho the chute deploys,the container is still attached to the end of the lines.it does not fall away.so cooper might not have just been holding the chest chute in his hands when he exited. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SafecrackingPLF 0 #520 March 27, 2008 I heard back from Ckret. He told me, "I have been keeping up on the posts, you guys are doing quality work." I want to make sure that no one considers my words a PA, but Ckret will not join the discussion at this time because some things were said about him on the old thread that weren't exactly true. Along those lines, he said, "please send my thanks to all of those who are helping with this case. Good Luck" I think it's important that we continue to work through the ins and outs of the case and move forward instead of look back. If people have legit questions, I will see if I can get answers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dumstuntzz 0 #521 March 27, 2008 i holeheartedly agree with this theory of unpacking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SafecrackingPLF 0 #522 March 27, 2008 It seems plausible that the parachute wouldn't necessarily need to be deployed... so I would concur as well. Of course, I'm thinking if this is turns out to be Cooper's NB6, then it was deployed (location would suggest it). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #523 March 27, 2008 Please ask him What if anything is being done to protect the site where the Parachute was found? That place must be crawling with treasure hunters by now if nothing has been done to protect it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dumstuntzz 0 #524 March 27, 2008 its not coopers nb6/8 the serial number for that canopy is 60-9707 made by m. steinthal (see CKRET's post on the old cooper thread , post #710) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SafecrackingPLF 0 #525 March 27, 2008 I saw it, but thought 60-9707 referred to the model number not the S/N. Did I make a wuffo mistake? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
