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Earlier today I tried to post some pictures for Georger, but could not get one of them to post.
Pictures the witnesses need to see and if anyone thinks Marla's Uncle was Cooper - take a strong look at these two old pics one of which was on an Georgia drivers license.
Early everything kept going poof so I will give this ONE more try.
Georger did a clean up a photo of Marla's Cooper. What I have done is scan an old driver's license of Duane's - Strange thing I found - there are 2 (TWO)
Georgia drivers licenses with an expiration date if June 18 1983. One is obviously fake because it shows Duane being older and with his moustach and his glasses on. I am using the one I believe to be the real one, but I thought they destroyed your old license when you got a new one.
The exam date on the license is May 15 of 1979 in Georgia - we did NOT live in Georgia in 1979 - we were still living in CO. Reading the licenses and the dates and the pictures - This is CRAZY. Why didn't I look at these? Why didn't the FBI look at these?
I do NOT remember us going to GA in May of 1979 - so HOW is this license possible. Perhaps he made a trip without me - and maybe for some reason he could NOT get a CO license. HELP ME make sense out of all of this.
Had I not have gone back looking for old pictures of Duane - I would never have noticed this - NOW, I think I am REALLY going crazy - if the FBI did not see all of this and question it. The date on all of these drivers licenses are driving me nuts if I am not already there.
Picture attached. The address given on this one is 6883 Allen Cir Apt 23 in Norcross, but we were living in Ft. Collins Co on Purdue in May of 1979.
The more I learn about Duane the scarier this looks - WHO the hell was I married to for 17 yrs?
I really really need some answers!
This picture of Duane also shows more of the Upper versus Lower angle of camera position or viewer description of Cooper. I am going to find one of the old pics I have from a different view and post that along with this "License pic". I am still not comparing Apples with Apples - date of Picture with Date. If the GA license is real the picture was made in 1979.
OKAY one more stab at getting these pictures to post.
3 of them transferred with this, but the other one look for later tonight - since I have to go in close on the page - it may not be the best quality - BUT, if the closest to Cooper the witnesses have ever seen is Marla's uncle - they witnesses need to see these photos.
Pictures the witnesses need to see and if anyone thinks Marla's Uncle was Cooper - take a strong look at these two old pics one of which was on an Georgia drivers license.
Early everything kept going poof so I will give this ONE more try.
Georger did a clean up a photo of Marla's Cooper. What I have done is scan an old driver's license of Duane's - Strange thing I found - there are 2 (TWO)
Georgia drivers licenses with an expiration date if June 18 1983. One is obviously fake because it shows Duane being older and with his moustach and his glasses on. I am using the one I believe to be the real one, but I thought they destroyed your old license when you got a new one.
The exam date on the license is May 15 of 1979 in Georgia - we did NOT live in Georgia in 1979 - we were still living in CO. Reading the licenses and the dates and the pictures - This is CRAZY. Why didn't I look at these? Why didn't the FBI look at these?
I do NOT remember us going to GA in May of 1979 - so HOW is this license possible. Perhaps he made a trip without me - and maybe for some reason he could NOT get a CO license. HELP ME make sense out of all of this.
Had I not have gone back looking for old pictures of Duane - I would never have noticed this - NOW, I think I am REALLY going crazy - if the FBI did not see all of this and question it. The date on all of these drivers licenses are driving me nuts if I am not already there.
Picture attached. The address given on this one is 6883 Allen Cir Apt 23 in Norcross, but we were living in Ft. Collins Co on Purdue in May of 1979.
The more I learn about Duane the scarier this looks - WHO the hell was I married to for 17 yrs?
I really really need some answers!
This picture of Duane also shows more of the Upper versus Lower angle of camera position or viewer description of Cooper. I am going to find one of the old pics I have from a different view and post that along with this "License pic". I am still not comparing Apples with Apples - date of Picture with Date. If the GA license is real the picture was made in 1979.
OKAY one more stab at getting these pictures to post.
3 of them transferred with this, but the other one look for later tonight - since I have to go in close on the page - it may not be the best quality - BUT, if the closest to Cooper the witnesses have ever seen is Marla's uncle - they witnesses need to see these photos.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Farflung 0
Way to keep us (OK, me) on point pek771.
Flight 305 was vectored (not victored) to Reno somewhere around the Red Bluff VORTAC. Robert99 will know better where.
Victor 23 continues south to Sacramento and does not actually go to Reno. As far as the transcripts indicate, Flight 305 was following V-23 from launch to the vicinity of Red Bluff, CA.
Here’s the website with a pan-able group of aeronautical charts.
http://runwayfinder.com/?loc=RBL
You can click on the rectangle in the upper right that says ‘IFR Low’ and that will show V-23. You can trace it back up to Seattle or south to where it peters out in San Diego which is coincidentally where the US peters out.
Flight 305 was vectored (not victored) to Reno somewhere around the Red Bluff VORTAC. Robert99 will know better where.
Victor 23 continues south to Sacramento and does not actually go to Reno. As far as the transcripts indicate, Flight 305 was following V-23 from launch to the vicinity of Red Bluff, CA.
Here’s the website with a pan-able group of aeronautical charts.
http://runwayfinder.com/?loc=RBL
You can click on the rectangle in the upper right that says ‘IFR Low’ and that will show V-23. You can trace it back up to Seattle or south to where it peters out in San Diego which is coincidentally where the US peters out.
377 21
QuoteDan/377: Im betting the chute is still out there and who ever find's it will be in for a pretty large payday. I bet a collector would pay close to a million or more for it. You could always cut it up and sell pieces of it for $20,000 or more a piece. Im shocked more people are not out in the area searching for it or the DZ. With the economy the way it is today it would be will worth the time. Jerry
The chute intact might be worth more than if sold in pieces, hard to say. If its still packed and has bloodstains, the sky's the limit.
People go crazy over momentos from famous crimes. I am a case in point. I never thought Id pay more than $20 for a twenty.
I just can't solve Dan's riddle. Until I do, I think the chute is out there and still findable.
Mysterious Musica Farnsworth, A DB Cooper author, thinks he went in as a no pull into soft ground and self buried. Jerry says no way.
Top bidders paid around $6000 each for beat up twenties from Tena bar. I bet the chute is worth a fortune.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 21
QuoteWay to keep us (OK, me) on point pek771.
Flight 305 was vectored (not victored) to Reno somewhere around the Red Bluff VORTAC. Robert99 will know better where.
Victor 23 continues south to Sacramento and does not actually go to Reno. As far as the transcripts indicate, Flight 305 was following V-23 from launch to the vicinity of Red Bluff, CA.
Here’s the website with a pan-able group of aeronautical charts.
http://runwayfinder.com/?loc=RBL
You can click on the rectangle in the upper right that says ‘IFR Low’ and that will show V-23. You can trace it back up to Seattle or south to where it peters out in San Diego which is coincidentally where the US peters out.
Farflung gets all professional and piloty, but its a temporary diversion. Soon he will be back to his core self, nun lust and the like.
Tell us again Farflung why you chose to sit in the front end of a nuke hauler with a bunch a smelly guys when you could have been in the left seat of a much cleaner Boeing, eating first class food spoon fed to you by gorgeous flight attendants just hoping to be at least considered for matrimony by a four striper.
Oh, and the pay in that era was probaby 4-5x.
At least you didnt have to skirt MOAs in your Boeing.
You could fly real low too if you felt like it.
Now back to Victor 23 and MEAs.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Check the post I made just prior this with the 3 pictures in it.
This photo is ONE no one has ever seen before. Look very closely at the forehead (you will have to us an enhancement program on you photos) - I chose NOT to do any changes with this photo other than to isolate Cooper from his surroundings.
This picture was made in 1977 with a simple cheap camera I had. Note with enhancement the scar at the forehead and the hairline. Over yrs it faded. His ex-wife had told me Duane had a gash on his forehead...this is evidence that she did NOT lie about that. His co-workers also noted an injury.
I do NOT think it is an injury but maybe it is. I will also attach the young 25 approx photo so you can see and decide for yourself - gash or deliberate mutilation of the hair line.
Also NOTE how much this one resembles the photo of Marla's
Uncle that had been used and supposedly shown to the witnesses.
HOW can I make all of this up?
HOW can I invent all of this?
I am a STUPID Old Woman!
I am off my Rocker!
This photo is ONE no one has ever seen before. Look very closely at the forehead (you will have to us an enhancement program on you photos) - I chose NOT to do any changes with this photo other than to isolate Cooper from his surroundings.
This picture was made in 1977 with a simple cheap camera I had. Note with enhancement the scar at the forehead and the hairline. Over yrs it faded. His ex-wife had told me Duane had a gash on his forehead...this is evidence that she did NOT lie about that. His co-workers also noted an injury.
I do NOT think it is an injury but maybe it is. I will also attach the young 25 approx photo so you can see and decide for yourself - gash or deliberate mutilation of the hair line.
Also NOTE how much this one resembles the photo of Marla's
Uncle that had been used and supposedly shown to the witnesses.
HOW can I make all of this up?
HOW can I invent all of this?
I am a STUPID Old Woman!
I am off my Rocker!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
I just can't solve Dan's riddle. Until I do, I think the chute is out there and still findable.
YES! Its still out there right next to yours, where you made a night jump and never pulled? Right. Why would you make a night jump and not pull the big silver handle? Theres only one silver handle, can you pull it? Of course you can. Or you pulled and got a streamer and no one ever found this wad of trash in 40 years? Right. Or it was Duane. Right. Or, like you, he made an exit and pulled, and he got a good canopy! Same as you! Youre still here and your cranium is still functioning nicely! I guess you pulled, didnt you? If you didnt pull then explain your source of internet down there and how you keep that laptop from burning up. When you landed you field packed the canopy. Then you daisy chained the lines in the dark. Then you walked towards the light. Your body is not laying out there in a crater, and you jumped. Mine is not either, and I jumped. There have been thousands of night jumps under rounds. In the very old days they used to bring 'em young to the sport because their knees and ankles could handle the PLF. Things are a lot different to day and even old people still jump. But Nobody doesnt pull. Think. But it wasnt Duane, it wasnt Pat's guy, and Marla would look great in a nun cap.
YES! Its still out there right next to yours, where you made a night jump and never pulled? Right. Why would you make a night jump and not pull the big silver handle? Theres only one silver handle, can you pull it? Of course you can. Or you pulled and got a streamer and no one ever found this wad of trash in 40 years? Right. Or it was Duane. Right. Or, like you, he made an exit and pulled, and he got a good canopy! Same as you! Youre still here and your cranium is still functioning nicely! I guess you pulled, didnt you? If you didnt pull then explain your source of internet down there and how you keep that laptop from burning up. When you landed you field packed the canopy. Then you daisy chained the lines in the dark. Then you walked towards the light. Your body is not laying out there in a crater, and you jumped. Mine is not either, and I jumped. There have been thousands of night jumps under rounds. In the very old days they used to bring 'em young to the sport because their knees and ankles could handle the PLF. Things are a lot different to day and even old people still jump. But Nobody doesnt pull. Think. But it wasnt Duane, it wasnt Pat's guy, and Marla would look great in a nun cap.
pek771 0
Thank you, Farflung. That was easier to manipulate than SkyVector.
A few things are puzzling to me (well, to almost everyone, actually):
Why have no remnants been found, except for some money and the stair placard? If one considers the deployed but died theory, then someone would have found his body, or some remnants. This would be a hard secret to keep for 40 years.
If DBC were a no pull and went into a body of water or soft ground, then there is a possibility the evidence may still remain buried...see dredging ops on the Columbia. Hard to imagine that nothing would have floated to a surface and not been noticed.
Suppose DBC bailed in the flatlands on the southern end of V-23 before the turn to port towards Reno? After reading so much of this thread, it seems to me that EVERYONE is convinced DBC went out at the point of the pressure bump. The entire scenario of going out up in the back country near the Columbia is predicated on the popping of the flight engineers ears during the simulation and sled drop tests. If the aircraft was unpressurized, and the stairs suddenly closed, why should that have such an effect...this effect is analogous to using a toilet plunger, with the aft stair as the plunger. I have trouble with this from a fluid mechanics standpoint. And, the stairs were DOWN when 305 landed, correct?
So, why couldn't have DBC left near Red Bluff? No one saw anything. He walks away with the money, and no one finds anything because everyone is looking in the wrong spot. And the copilot seemed to want to shake DBC from the aircraft with a vengance. He did indeed want to kill Cooper.
A few things are puzzling to me (well, to almost everyone, actually):
Why have no remnants been found, except for some money and the stair placard? If one considers the deployed but died theory, then someone would have found his body, or some remnants. This would be a hard secret to keep for 40 years.
If DBC were a no pull and went into a body of water or soft ground, then there is a possibility the evidence may still remain buried...see dredging ops on the Columbia. Hard to imagine that nothing would have floated to a surface and not been noticed.
Suppose DBC bailed in the flatlands on the southern end of V-23 before the turn to port towards Reno? After reading so much of this thread, it seems to me that EVERYONE is convinced DBC went out at the point of the pressure bump. The entire scenario of going out up in the back country near the Columbia is predicated on the popping of the flight engineers ears during the simulation and sled drop tests. If the aircraft was unpressurized, and the stairs suddenly closed, why should that have such an effect...this effect is analogous to using a toilet plunger, with the aft stair as the plunger. I have trouble with this from a fluid mechanics standpoint. And, the stairs were DOWN when 305 landed, correct?
So, why couldn't have DBC left near Red Bluff? No one saw anything. He walks away with the money, and no one finds anything because everyone is looking in the wrong spot. And the copilot seemed to want to shake DBC from the aircraft with a vengance. He did indeed want to kill Cooper.
377 21
Dan.
I gave a presentation at the Portland sympoisim explaining how Cooper could have ended up under a good chute.
I like to think Cooper didn't crater and its very possible that he did not, so I don't need any convincing on that front.
OK, say he landed alive and managed to evade searchers.
Who the hell was he? I can find a few highly qualified Coopers: Peterson, Braden, Mayfield, McCoy, maybe even Norton from the Antioch DZ in CA, but I cant put any of them on the plane.
How long are you gonna keep us hanging Dan?
Yes, I've jumped a round at night. No big deal.
I havent flown a Carvair. I have two hours of Learstar time though.
Marla in a nun's habit? OMG. Farflung would blow an artery.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
GreenElf 0
377,
The missing parachute and the remaining missing money have always been perplexing, given that ground zero was searched carefully, and that other areas of Southwest Washington have been seached as well.
To my knowledge, a lot of the historical search and current theory of 305's radar-guided flight path seems to have been directed along a mostly East-West, latitudinal line. Towns such as Orchards, Battleground, Ariel, and Washougal extend very roughly along this line.
I'm wondering, what searches have been done historically or currently, if any, along a north/south longitudinal line? What towns, if any, extend along this line?
My question is directly related to the pilot's notice of the infamous "bump" that was felt or measured minutes after 8:00pm - the moment when DB was assumed to have bailed.
When FBI investigators subsequently reenacted this jump, did the evidence suggest whether it was possible to "fake" this bump? In other words, is it possible, in standing on those aft stairs with the engines screaming, that DB could have:
... prepared to jump, leaped (creating a "bump"), but as he did so, inexplicably tangled a loose portion of the NB8 chute, the money knapsack, or even the crudely fastened rope (used to tie the money knapsack around his middle section) to the aft stairs?
... lost his balance in preparing to jump initially (creating a "bump"), attempted unsuccessfully to regain his balance, fell off partially, but was able to hang on momentarily?
... prepared to jump, committed halfway, in a split second realized he wasn't quite ready (perhaps equipment, or nerves, or visual-associated geographical positioning), then attempted unsuccessfully to stop himself and regain his balance, fell of partially (creating a "bump"), but was able to hang on momentarily?
Hypothetical Summary: My thought here would be that if the relatively quiet airstream bubble directly surrounding the staircase had created a aerodynamic scenario where it would have been possible for him to fall off the stairs with most of his weight (creating the weight release "bump"), yet continued to have allowed him to physically cling to a lower portion of the stairs (perhaps the hand rails - not sure, I will have to take a closer look at the pics) with his hands while his body was extended in a horizontal fashion, he might not have created another bump when he released.
This would have allowed him to let go at a further time, and away from the conventionally suspected search areas. His drop zone and eventual landing spot, under this scenario, would have been further south/southeast. The pilots would not have known. Both of them plus Tina were minding their manners in the cockpit. There would have been a considerable amount of time for him to let go, I suppose. Even an airplane traveling as little as 185-200 mph can cover a lot of ground with a small hangup/malfunction such as this.
Thoughts?
Green Elf
The missing parachute and the remaining missing money have always been perplexing, given that ground zero was searched carefully, and that other areas of Southwest Washington have been seached as well.
To my knowledge, a lot of the historical search and current theory of 305's radar-guided flight path seems to have been directed along a mostly East-West, latitudinal line. Towns such as Orchards, Battleground, Ariel, and Washougal extend very roughly along this line.
I'm wondering, what searches have been done historically or currently, if any, along a north/south longitudinal line? What towns, if any, extend along this line?
My question is directly related to the pilot's notice of the infamous "bump" that was felt or measured minutes after 8:00pm - the moment when DB was assumed to have bailed.
When FBI investigators subsequently reenacted this jump, did the evidence suggest whether it was possible to "fake" this bump? In other words, is it possible, in standing on those aft stairs with the engines screaming, that DB could have:
... prepared to jump, leaped (creating a "bump"), but as he did so, inexplicably tangled a loose portion of the NB8 chute, the money knapsack, or even the crudely fastened rope (used to tie the money knapsack around his middle section) to the aft stairs?
... lost his balance in preparing to jump initially (creating a "bump"), attempted unsuccessfully to regain his balance, fell off partially, but was able to hang on momentarily?
... prepared to jump, committed halfway, in a split second realized he wasn't quite ready (perhaps equipment, or nerves, or visual-associated geographical positioning), then attempted unsuccessfully to stop himself and regain his balance, fell of partially (creating a "bump"), but was able to hang on momentarily?
Hypothetical Summary: My thought here would be that if the relatively quiet airstream bubble directly surrounding the staircase had created a aerodynamic scenario where it would have been possible for him to fall off the stairs with most of his weight (creating the weight release "bump"), yet continued to have allowed him to physically cling to a lower portion of the stairs (perhaps the hand rails - not sure, I will have to take a closer look at the pics) with his hands while his body was extended in a horizontal fashion, he might not have created another bump when he released.
This would have allowed him to let go at a further time, and away from the conventionally suspected search areas. His drop zone and eventual landing spot, under this scenario, would have been further south/southeast. The pilots would not have known. Both of them plus Tina were minding their manners in the cockpit. There would have been a considerable amount of time for him to let go, I suppose. Even an airplane traveling as little as 185-200 mph can cover a lot of ground with a small hangup/malfunction such as this.
Thoughts?
Green Elf
...it seems to me that EVERYONE is convinced DBC went out at the point of the pressure bump.
not quite everyone, but close. Youre not understanding that point in time, what it signifies, and what it was to the jumper. THINK! The pilot lost 3 or 4 on the ADI "at" the bump, and he held it! HE HELD IT! How obvious does this have to be?
not quite everyone, but close. Youre not understanding that point in time, what it signifies, and what it was to the jumper. THINK! The pilot lost 3 or 4 on the ADI "at" the bump, and he held it! HE HELD IT! How obvious does this have to be?
377 21
In past posts I proposed a similar scenario for a much delayed undetected exit. I have him bouncing at the bottom, kinda testing the diving board, then climbing back up the stairs to mimimize the moment arm, then jumping from that higher position. The crew thinks he has already jumped and pay little attention to further pressure transients.
I am an EE though, not an aero or mech engineer.
Hominid is the doorman, so to speak. He really dug deep on the mechanisms and the dynamics. Lets hear from him.
And where are Hangdiver and Raz? Ident!
377
I am an EE though, not an aero or mech engineer.
Hominid is the doorman, so to speak. He really dug deep on the mechanisms and the dynamics. Lets hear from him.
And where are Hangdiver and Raz? Ident!
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
pek771 0
Quote...it seems to me that EVERYONE is convinced DBC went out at the point of the pressure bump.
not quite everyone, but close. Youre not understanding that point in time, what it signifies, and what it was to the jumper. THINK! The pilot lost 3 or 4 on the ADI "at" the bump, and he held it! HE HELD IT! How obvious does this have to be?
Dan, not being a pilot, I assume you speak of the ball the pilots look at which tells what the aircraft is doing relative to the horizon? Like, banking, diving, etc? So, what does lost 3 or 4 on the ADI mean? I suppose it has to be more obvious for me.
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