DangerousDan

Jerry - I did not offer any disrespect. I simply said you were never in special forces, you were in the military. People that served in any branch have my respect no matter what their capacity. I thank you for your service. There is nothing egotystical here, and I appreciate your response. Like a doctor does, when you touch on an area and get a large response, or an indication of pain, you are probably at least close to where the problem is. THIS matter is important to the story. Pull or No Pull. That is the question. A no pull says the FBI was right and there is a body out there somewhere. A pull of any kind means that he made it out of there in some fashion, with or without help, stashing the rig or not, same night or not, doesnt matter. I had to find a way of probing the sensativity of the subject, so that I could determine the relative importance of the subject. Therefore, I appreciate most your last reply, as it told me the most, and the most light on why things are the way they are. I have to be gone from this thread now for a while, but I thank each and every one of you for your candid responses and your professional interaction. Jerry, You are in fact a vet and a fine American and I proudly stand up next to you and defend her still today. Because there aint no doubt we (all) love this land. God bless the USA.

Farflung - You need to be in something creative - you got talent! But hey its more simple than that. If there are seasoned skydivers on here that hold an opinion that the jumper (This is a DB Cooper thread I thought) left the 727 as a no pull/couldnt pull/total mal/etc. Then I would like to talk to them. Simple. I don't think this was the case, I am just looking for someone who can reasonably "speculate" that they (being entitled to a guess like anyone) do, and that this is their guess as to what happened. The varied opinions and guesses are all part of the story. Isnt it ironic that I cant find an experienced jumper that leans towards this take - that this guy exited and (for whatever reason) never got anything out? Maybe the survey was not woefully flawed after all. You are a fine citizen, a respected jumper, and I appreciate your writing. Sincerely, Dan

I didnt put words in your mouth. I asked a simple question. It is listed below. You are entitled to a best guess. Here is teh Question that I asked you: If you were to write these last two would it look like this? From Orange1: 9) He exited. He never pulled anything. 10) Nothing ever came out. How about just a Yes or No? Don't be mad. You have talent and experience. Tell me what you think. Its all good!

I think he got a good chute Dan. Jerry doesnt. He is retired Special Forces. ___________________________________________ Jerry is not retired special forces. Jerry was in the military.

377 - Im just looking for ONE person to be included in the documentary that will go on camera and make a best guess that they feel like this jumper exited and never got the container open. I would be willing to go on camera and say that I thought that Amelia ran out of gas and ditched in the ocean. I cant prove it but in my opinion, thats probably what happened. The ocean is a big place. Im still looking for ONE person that wants to claim their opinion that this body (the hijacker) and his unopened container are lying out there within 200 miles or Portland, OR. Is it you that can say that?

9) He exited somewhere in some fashion. He pulled. 10) "Something" came out. From Orage1: "The second part of 9, and 10 are just unknown. You cannot state with any certainty that they either happened or did not happen." The 10 listed are "My" conclusions. Each person is entitled to his own conclusions. Jo has concluded that Duwayne did it. She is entitled to that opinion. I wrote 9) and 10) with the limited amount of information that is present, my experience as an airline pilot and a veteran skydiver, and limited practical experience regarding human behavior I made my best guess. Please submit 9) and 10) in your own words. as your "best guess" based on what your opinion is. You are entitled to one. If you were to write these last two would it look like this? From Orange1: 9) He exited. He never pulled anything. 10) Nothing ever came out.

Quote from 377: "We believe with reasonable certainty that Cooper jumped a surplus Navy bailout rig with a stock military round canopy. That's a good rig for the jump. It can take a high speed opening." The "rig" was by definition an "emergency" rig. It was designed to be used when there are no other options. I believe that the jumper "intended" to obtain two sport rigs that were complete units, i.e. a sport back as a main and a chest mounted reserve. When he surveyed the goods presented and it was past time to go, he knew he didnt get what he wanted, so he had to take second best. The emergency rig with no second chute (chest mounted)would have been my second choice as well. This emergency rig was used by thousands around the world in both military and civilian. I wore it one time just like it in a T-6 doing acro. We didnt use them (the rig) but we wore them because it was required for acro flight. My conclusions: 1) The hijacking occurred 2) The man made took efforts to hide his identity 3) His real last name was not Cooper. 4) He selected the best rig from the lot available. 5) His level of clothing/gloves/goggles is unknown 6) He jumped with the money. 7) The type of exit (quick pull, delay, face fwd, face aft, tumble, spin) is unknown. 8) He obviously went to a lot of trouble to get to this point in his caper. 9) He exited somewhere in some fashion. He pulled. 10) "Something" came out. If you have a legitimate disagreement with any of these, I encourage you to openly bring out your disagreement and state why you disagree. I value the opinions of each and every individual and I believe that this is the true "on topic" value of the forum. Thank you. Dan Gryder.

There are THOUSANDS of similar stories from aircrew... bailout rigs work exceedingly well even for those who were tumbling. We learned from those stories.. and designed training for aircrew that every class that went thru Survival Training was taught.

my point - any experienced jumper of that era would have no trouble with the reserve container sized bundle, IF, it was properly affixed and still intact after the exit. Matt FWIW - I interviewed a B-17 Commander from WWII a few years ago. His plane took a hit and became uncontrollable. He had never jumped and was given minimal training regarding a jump other than "get out the door, any door, and pull this thing..." He says he has no idea how fast the B-17 was going when he left it, but it was missing part of a wing and was pretty nose down and there was no one at the controls. He said had no concept of anything regarding parachuting, that was his one and only jump ever. He thinks he pulled immidiately out the door and has no idea his body position relative to earth, but even in 1944 he got a good canopy at a very high exit speed and rode it all the way to where he landed in a tree and cut himself out, only to be captured and spend months in a Russian prison camp eating pigeon leftovers to stay alive. A reserve is designed to work. Speed, body position, whtever. Pull. It works. Now find me an experienced jumper that says that the 727 suspect was a no pull/couldnt pull/total mal. off the very stable stairway of a 727 and that the guy was DOI and let him have his say. Thank you. Dan Gryder

"What you want is someone to go on camera and say that your candidate is Cooper and lived." Jerry, with all due respect, you obviously did not read and understand what I wrote. I know you are hurt about this. Read it again. Slow. I am looking for an experienced jumper to go on camera and say that they think whoever it was DID NOT get a good canopy and DID NOT live, and say why. Simple. No endorsing. No guessing WHO it was. Here is what I said: " No "proof" will be required. Just the statement that you are a very experienced jumper and that your opinion is that there is a body and a rig still laying out there and why you think that. " This has nothing to do with who anybody thinks it was. I just would like to find a reputable experienced jumper that firmly believes that the scenario resulted in a no pull/couldnt pull/total mal. etc and that they believe that the body and original rig are still laying out there somewhere, and why. So far I cant find anyone that thinks that this guy went to this much trouble and was unable to get SOMETHING out. Can you find me one? Just one? Thank you. Dan Gryder

I am looking for the name/contact info for the person that found the 727 Airstair Placard. Is he still alive? Any help? Also. I am soliciting any experienced skydiver (from the sport before the days of throw out pilot chutes) That would be willing to go on camera and be interviewed with real name and experience level and state that they feel that in their opinion, the jumper in this case was likely a no pull (disorientation, G force, etc) or a total Mal, or a hard pull that was never successful, or any other combination of theory that leads to a terminal impact with the pilot chute still stowed. No "proof" will be required. Just the statement that you are a very experienced jumper and that your opinion is that there is a body and a rig still laying out there, they are still attached, and why you think that. No one is going to attack your background, you are entitled to an opinion and if there is an experienced jumper out there that holds this opinion, we would like to schedule an interview. Thank you. Dan Gryder

We may have met up there, or at Whiteside...! We (Liberty Parachute Team) were opening the show from Duggy, that's my helmet cam footage I linked. If you were at Whiteside, we probably did meet, but Liberty Parachute team wasnt there, but a few guys from the team stopped up there just out of interest. Whiteside is my home town, the New Years day jumps I used to make were up there out of a C-182in the old days, RRVS club plane. I also get out to Witchita now and then and Chuck is a friend of mine out there. Last year he assembled a group of us to celebrate the anniversary of the making of Gypsy Moths, which was filmed at Benton, KS. I got a jump out of a Stearman that day by riding in the front seat and having the pilot do a parabolic arch and push really hard at the top, I launched out and flew relative to the aircraft for a few seconds above it. Way cool! We probably know each other from Muskogee or WFFC. Dan

Or this[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sV1CzvZHlM The point is, the rig this Hijacker selected was an Emergency rig. He had an emergency. He needed to exit with the cash. The harness, container, and canopy were designed to be used under the worst of conditions to save a life. Stable or not, turning spinning, even on your back, it aint gonna be pretty, but its gonna work. It was the strongest canopy, with the least drive, and nicest ride. His name wasnt Cooper, and his body aint out there.

YUP! @2;10 in and more at the end...three 3's in formation! 3 is nice, summer of 2010 I organized 30 DC-3's, I flew as lead ship of the mass arrival into OSH. Tons of you tube video on it and some cool air to air footage. It was like an in flight ocean of DC-3's flying off me. Also, the man jumped and got a good canopy. It worked. He lived. Thank you. Dan Gryder. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbyG4Zr0qsQ [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbyG4Zr0qsQ

Anybody wanna jump this?