DB Cooper

[Farflung 0]

RobertMBlevins porously recaps:

“To point out the obvious, going missing doesn't mean you went to Portland, Oregon on Thanksgiving weekend 1971 to hijack a plane. Tens of thousands of people go missing each year for any number or reasons. There has to be more here to consider this person a viable suspect.”

This is astonishing to say the least. The very person who without the burden of any proof what so ever, that has put Kenny in an Airstream trailer in Paradise Point State Park in a toupee and with a willing accomplice thinks Mel Wilson is merely a missing person. Nothing like demonstrating that razor sharp analysis of a situation while searching for the truth. I think there’s more than early onset of Alzheimer’s going on here.

Mel Wilson isn’t just missing, he is wanted by the Federal government for counterfeiting more money than Cooper extorted. This isn’t some deadbeat dad here.

Some guy in his early 40’s is facing enough hard time to guarantee his incarnation until he qualified for Social Security and bolts in September 1971. What exactly does one do next?

Change identity and get out of town for starters. This probably means ditching the car, cleaning out the bank account, getting a new ID and grabbing a fistful of Greyhound or Trailways to somewhere else. This may relieve some of the detection pressures but he just became unemployed and his past was associated with larceny and not W2 wage earning.

Now two or three months have passed and the cash reserves are terminally low. Not low wages but low on money with little on the horizon. I realize that everyone thinks vanishing is easy for some reason but I would be sweating like a serial killer giving an employer some Social Security number and waiting for something to be discovered. Like the number is from a person that is dead or a different gender. This on top of knowing that arrest for any small crime (shoplifting, picking pockets) will lead to another fingerprinting and probably a Hail Mary to Wisconsin and a Federal pound you in the ass prison.

What has the least capital costs with the greatest return? A briefcase, four road flares and a note for $200,000 might just qualify. But where did this ghost of a person come from, there would be employers and family missing him and someone would know. Certainly a man escaping justice a few months before with no local ties and trying to be invisible wouldn’t qualify. The answer needs to be much more complex because they are ‘fluid’ solutions. Oh my, Paradise Point State Park is downstream from Tena Bar (as pointed out on three previous occasions) then the ‘Kenny tossed money in the water’ is now moot. Thanks to the magic of physics and taking a few seconds to read a map BEFORE making such a flaccid claim known. It is amazing what you can winnow out before trundling around the countryside and interviewing cheesecake salesmen from Shemya who are obsessed with flares.

Now Wilson has devolved into just a missing person like the billions and billions who go missing everyday in Tallahassee. Now the hyperbole needs hyperbole in order to be made into another baseless sort of Cooper ‘known fact’. Simply…….. astonishing.

[377 21]

I am sure Farflung has a plan to fix this. It might already be underway. A dying breed that doesn't breed gives you a hint.

Jo, you really don't have to be so desperate to prove DW=DBC. It makes you stretch things to make them fit. Slow down, relax, take up a pleasant hobby and put this case on hold or at least idle. This crime will eventually be solved in my opinion. If Duane was Cooper you'll be vindicated. You (and I) might well be dead by that time, but so what? Why the huge push to make the case with inadequate evidence while you are alive? The Internet assures that your posts will endure practically forever.

I really do worry about your increasing stress over what you feel is coverup, manipulation and ignorance. Decouple, detach, don't let this be your primary activity. You can still enjoy life and lessen the frustration that this case causes you.

Jerry Thomas won't bother you on a beach walk. The FBIs purported stupidity won't be a factor there either. You've made your points. They are recorded. Repetition won't accomplish much. Further research is unlikely to dig up anything that will turn the tide.

This is one addict advising another to quit or cut back, I know that, but I don't have a horse in the race like you do. If a particular horse wins I don't lose. You have a huge amount of your psyche bet on Duane Weber to win the Wahougal Derby. Place or show pays nothin.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

These people are not in this for research but for
personal vindication and glory.

Georger I am definitely not out for glory or fame - just to know the thruth about Weber (have to be careful now not to say Cooper). If the FBI has the records that support Duane NOT being in the WA area in 1971 and other times he was according to "my research" then all they ever needed to do was provide me with the information and I would not have been the thorn in their side I have been all of these yrs. Do you think I really like using up my life researching a man - I was married to, but didn't really know?

If the FBI is playing games that is not how it should be. When a suspect comes up and if they have information that indicates the subject could NOT be Cooper sharing that information with the family would allow the FBI to move on. In regards to Weber they stated information that was faulty and I already had government documentation to the contrary. They would later admit their error, but didn't want if public knowledge.

If the FBI has information that would prove Duane was NOT Cooper they could have saved themselves and me a lot of hardship - not to mention money and time on my part...and tax payers dollars.

Why did the FBI ask for help in solving this crime? Do you have an explanation of this?

Why do you think the FBI has not been open with the files and the information all of these yrs?
Keeping information from the public till those who night have know Cooper have died off - makes NO Sense to Me, but nothing our government does makes sense to Me anymore.

When I bring up what I believe to be a childhood picture of Tina and the old BOOKS ( the fact there are 2 books I have kept secret all of these yrs). I am bringing up information the FBI could prove or disprove. Lets face it, I did NOT realize these book could be connected to the case until you guys did your experiments on the river. I had casually mentioned them to Mr H yrs and yrs ago and he didn't think they would be related. I ALWAYS thought what I told Mr. H was going to be told to the active FBI.

How naive I was! I didn't understand how the system worked and this misconception on my part is my own fault.

As for Duane I am not looking for sympathy - I want some answers from the FBI. They could have made me go away yrs and yrs ago, but they didn't. Ask yourself WHY? After 2001 - remember I pulled away from the media and chose NOT to participate - except to keep on searching for answers. This thread is part of my research.

Why I am a damn thorn in your side and the FBI's. I noted your little hesitation about the "books" - did I hit a nerve there. I deliberately hid the fact there are 2 books and considered the 2 books related. My own research into these book showed they were directly connected to the N.W. - SO the question is there now. One of the books was published in the East, but had N.W. connections.

WHY did Duane have and covet these two books?
Why is it they showed up in 1990 when I saw the stub and the bag?
Why did he have a foreign bill he had put some kind of wax on? I asked why and he just said a little experiment. Was he going to try to wax one of the 20's?

There are just to many WHYS: The chute hardware, the airline ticket, the little toy (mouse) and a piece of very thick Plexiglass (tinted).

I didn't discuss this before because I didn't know what it was. It is a piece of glass - 1 and 1/2 inches wide and 4 inches long. It was in the same desk drawer he told me to LEAVE ALONE.

I now know this is a piece of AIRPLANE window? What the hell did Duane need this for other than a paper weight? He never used it and it was with the other things I had orders to not touch.

I am putting everything out there now that I have kept to myself - HOPING maybe it might provide some kind of clue to the FBI - but, they aren't talking to me at all.

If anything I have said above has any bearing on this case - please relay it to the agent of Record. I am hoping someone on this thread has an actual IN with the FBI...and maybe, just maybe I held on to some things I should have made public long ago.

Respectfully,
Jo Weber
The crazy loo loo

P.S.
I am just trying to tie up all the loose ends in my life right now. I am putting it all on the table.
Hopefully I will not forget anything that needs to be said.

Finished a scrap book of my life last night for the girls - my youth...and up until they were about 8 and 9. This scrap book stops in 1975 and has nothing Cooper or Weber related.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 21]

Quote

- I want some answers from the FBI. They could have made me go away yrs and yrs ago, but they didn't. Ask yourself WHY?

Easy answer Jo. They don't care if you toil endlessly. They have no continuing interest in lightening the load on potential witnesses who are determined to have no probative evidence. A witness either has relevant crime evidence or they don't. The FBI has concluded that you don't. After that point you fall off their radar. They won't spend a minute to save you years of frustrating investigative work. That angers you but surely you should be able to see their point. It's not a static situation. Put Duane on the plane and you'll find immediate and deep FBI interest. Until then you'll just be completely ignored. Not persecuted, just ignored. There is a difference.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

- I want some answers from the FBI. They could have made me go away yrs and yrs ago, but they didn't. Ask yourself WHY?

Easy answer Jo. They don't care if you toil endlessly. They have no continuing interest in lightening the load on potential witnesses who are determined to have no probative evidence. A witness either has relevant crime evidence or they don't. The FBI has concluded that you don't. After that point you fall off their radar. They won't spend a minute to save you years of frustrating investigative work. That angers you but surely you should be able to see their point. It's not a static situation. Put Duane on the plane and you'll find immediate and deep FBI interest. Until then you'll just be completely ignored. Not persecuted, just ignored. There is a difference.

377

I held the evidence in my hands - but never saw it after 1994. I still believe there was something in the VAN...but, I missed it and someone else found it...and probably threw it away except for any money or gold coins they may have found. 2 pieces of jewelry with no known reason - but things he refused to part with.

Too much time lapsed between Duane's death and my discovering who Dan Cooper was.
I am a neat freak - and I just got rid of things...if only I had known at his death what I know now - I would have kept many things I got rid of.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

Just read that article and was going to mention it!

Thought it was quite sad. I attended a catholic convent school for a few years in primary (elementary) school...so it's kind of close to home. (I have been nervous about mentioning this fact in farflung's presence, understandably I'm sure...).

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 197]

Quote

I have read Farflung's post, but I won't quote the whole thing in entirety here. There ARE some key differences between KC and this missing man suspect, though.

First, there are The Witnesses Against Christiansen.

These are LIVE people with real names and addresses, one of whom was dumb enough to drive down a hundred miles or so and appear on History Channel with his denials. Robert Blevins, he's just a big fat liar. Oh, yeah. And where were YOU, they asked him, on the day of the hijacking. He sits there like a friggin' stone and won't answer. You figure it out.

Second, there is The Document-Based Evidence. We've seen KC's bank records, his tax statements, etc. over a several-years' period, plus we know what he made from the airline. We even know he bought his house for cash from a guy who was good friends with the Guy Who Was Dumb Enough to Appear on History Channel. Gee, what a coincidence that Kenny would buy THAT house. Some people might infer he didn't think it would be safe to go through someone he didn't know. It could draw attention to his sudden spending, maybe. Nah, that couldn't be it. It was just a coincidence he bought it from Joe and Ann Grimes.

We can put Kenny in a chute, and he did jump from planes at night, sometimes deliberately over water and/or trees during training. So we know he had some experience with difficult jumps.

Toupee? Three witnesses have testified he owned one. Jones said she knew he had one, but she never saw him wear it. Dawn J, Bernie's own sister, and Lyle Christiansen both saw him wear it, and testified he owned one. And Bernie's Own Sister even ID'd the tie tac as Kenny's and said she suspected KC might have been the hijacker clear back when it happened. 'So THAT'S where he got all the money..." she said. What money? We thought Kenny was broke and living in that sleazy apartment down in Sumner. You mean he had money? No way.

There is also the matter of the $2,000 in twenties found out back of KC's house. This one just won't go away. It was merely a fable to me, told by Dan Rattenbury...until that day in January when Carolyn Tyner told me the same story. And she and her ex were the owners of KC's house directly after he died. Being the wife of a current Boulder, CO police officer might lend some credence to her story. She held back nothing.

Jones said that KC admitted (they ran into each other at the laundromat of all places) that he was with Geestman over the weekend of the hijacking. Also another good witness with no motivation to lie. Geestman, on the other hand, has plenty of reasons to lie.

A mass number of padlocks on the INTERIOR doors of Margie Geestman's ranch house up in Twisp tells me she wasn't lying when she said she did that after Bernie broke in to steal his 71 log and a bunch of personal photos. When did this happen? Only six weeks after Kenny's death in 1994, and Geestman admitted on History Channel he was at Kenny's deathbed. Maybe he drove the four hundred miles each way to do that because he just couldn't live without those photos of his best friend. Yes, that must be it. Many of the photos were of he and KC together.

But wait...didn't he tell History Channel execs he hardly knew Kenny and thought he was a dishwasher? There is a conflict here somewhere. Maybe it's another coincidence. Unfortunately, he didn't get all of the photos of he and Kenny since he couldn't break into Lyle Christiansen's house in Morris, MN.

But then, this wasn't the first time Bernie had done a bit of second-story work after a friend died. Six years after the hijacking, he allegedly went to Oakville, WA and broke into Dick Blume's house after Blume died and stole photo albums and possessions belonging to Blume. His wife saw him going through the boxes out in his shop. When she questioned him on it, he told her not to worry about it and the next day the boxes were gone. Who was Blume? Another ex-paratrooper who was also a friend of Bernie's. Don't worry, he wasn't the hijacker. Blume was even shorter than Kenny and had blonde hair. We never figured this one out, and by the time I found out where Blume's brother lived, he had died a few months earlier. In the book, we wondered if Blume had somehow been involved in the planning or something, but there was no way to tell. All of this only proves Bernie Geestman was involved in something, and whenever possible he was trying to sever any links to it with people he knew.

Yes. There's a lot we didn't reveal in the book. I have my reasons on this, but the main one is in case the FBI decides to get serious on Christiansen.

Let's not forget Bernie also tried to get his own sister to deny everything she said for Blast after History Channel contacted him. They caught him cold on that one, too. Now what would make him do that? And why hasn't he taken legal action against us? We made it easy for him to sue us into the Stone Age but he hasn't bothered. Let's face it, if he had nothing to do with the hijacking, he's got one hell of an easy case that any lawyer would drool over to take. Ask yourself why he hasn't called a lawyer. He did go on Decoded and say 'I didn't DO it.' I suppose that's something.

Well, maybe he doesn't mind being named a possible accomplice to the sixth-biggest unsolved crime of the 20th century. No problem he says, go ahead and call me criminal in public, and in print. And by the way...can I have a few free copies for my friends? Sure, we sent him some.

If you believe it's because he enjoys the notoriety this only means you didn't see the Decoded episode. He looked pretty unhappy about the whole thing, so it wasn't like he wanted the starring role in How I Was an Accomplice to the Cooper Hijacking.

FYI: Not EVERYTHING on KC was revealed on that show, or in the book either. There is more. Not enough to convict, but more than enough to put KC on the suspect list. I hope at some point the FBI takes the time to go around and speak to these people. Maybe it was Kenny, maybe it wasn't, but there is enough here for an investigation.

Did I mention that we have documentation on our allegations regarding KC's finances...and that the witnesses are still above ground? Yes, I think I said that.

Play it again, Sam.

Can you do it in a minor key?

Got anything with three chords in it?

UFO landing or cold fusion ?
Discovered the Arc of the Covenant?
Any opinions about the Troude of Shurein?

"Local RobtMBlevins Learns More chords"

[Farflung 0]

Sooooo…. ummm…. yeah… how did RobertMBlevins put Kenny in Portland on Thanksgiving weekend (Thanksgiving has been on Thursday since 1941) before the hijacking (more time travel)? The hijacking was on Wednesday.

With a collection of meandering, non sequiturs and repeating stale information which avoid the question, yet again.

How have you put Kenny in Portland before the hijacking? How is this quality of your ‘Duane’ any different than all the other suspects offered thus far? I see none.

Wasn’t it a LIVE witness that you gleaned the ‘known fact’ that the Dan Cooper comic was on the Shemya dayroom table in 1951? How’d that turn out?

Didn’t your analysis prove that Cooper didn’t intend to jump at night?

Wasn’t it a LIVE witness that told you how Captain Scott walked down the fuselage like he was looking for a friend and had a conversation with DB Cooper? Who was that LIVE witness?

Didn’t Kenny throw the money in the river at Paradise Point State Park just a few pages back? Why the sudden change? I guess if anything is fluid in this ‘investigation’ it would be the river.

Who said DB Cooper wore a toupee? How did the subject of a toupee even come up? Why would that come up? What a weird and freaky thing to talk about and how amazing the memories are on the last time the toupee was seen. Even though one LIE (oops, forgot the V) witness said she knew Kenny had a toupee but never saw it? Gosh this appears to be data mining instead of research.

The eye witness descriptions are all over the place but Kenny is certified as having been a toupee wearing resident of the Seattle area with a rich, deep tan and appeared taller in the fuselage of an aircraft and didn't have hairy arms. Nothing reaching or desperate at all about this.

Yep, since a person can’t be placed at Portland before the hijacking they should be taken off the list. Scratch Duane, Kenny, LD, Mel Wilson, Gossett, Dayton, Petersen and List from the list.

Next contestant sign in please.

[JerryThomas 0]

Geoger: Has Blevins been taking lessons from Jo. Here is Jo Stating a few post back that she knew nothing of Cooper Untill just before Duane Died and now has a piece of the Air plane that could be easily Identified By engineers years ago.But continues to claim a vacation trip in 79 and her and Duane discusing Cooper. On the other hand here is Blevins claiming once again his candidate is Cooper Both of them have been informed that there candidates were not Cooper. Now comes 377 saying poor Jo Duane may have been Cooper Knowing that he wasn't, and talking like Humpty Dumpty sitting on a fence not knowing which side he is going to fall off on. (A True Lawyers Nature by the way) Now Far flung comes in and says a few things that makes since Where is Melvin Wilson a true candidate. Orange One makes perfect sense. You my friend as always calls it the way you see it Backing it with honest felt statements. Allthough you and I disagree at time's with each other and 377 the three of us maintain a personal friendship. Orange One and Vicki are sweet hearts and loves Monkeys we all like him also. This brings me to my point. This thread has brought up many good points and reviews in this case things that were never looked at before do to limitted technology.You Helped organize research teams and studies using your field of profesion/ Knowledge DropZone (Cooper Thread) is now monitored by many news agencies and other personel (Movie industry ect.) is now getting world wide attention due to Geofs book. Is it posible that Blevins and Jo realize this and is pushing for exstended period of fame.At any rate what we all post is being monitored and evaluated.By people in high places. Oh yeah Jamie Cooper I know your still here so is snow Ive read other coments made on other sites where things have been mentioned referencing recent DZ post.So if none of you realized it by now your all celebraties and everyone knows I can't spell. But Shelly showed me how to use the funny face. Hang in there Vicki the interest is building and so are the inquries. This case will be solved soon as 377 just said in his post.Partly because they are running out of land that is un explored in the area Cooper landed.The other reason is because now people have a larger area to look and know where to look and it gives the younger people a reason to get out and enjoy nature. The younger people have a hunger for fame and money and will even go to the woods if they think it will give them both.More people are out of a job so now they turn to nature for food and money. There is berries that is in abundance in this area and many people buy them also mushrooms of all types brush picking,it suplies a large income for familys. That area is getting more and more trafic every year. Jerry

[BruceSmith 3]

Greetings everyone,

Pat Forman, co-author of "Legend of DB Cooper - Death by Natural Causes" has been busy investigating the flight characteristics of 305 and posting them on the Mountain News.

I thought some of her material was particulary astute, and asked her for permission to pass on her commments to the DZ community.

Here it is:

Basically what we learned is that a 180 to 200 pound object "leaving" the plane would not be noticeable in any manner on a plane the size of a 727, even considering the position (arm) of the end of the stairs in relation to the center of gravity on the plane. (The center of gravity is the point where the weight of the plane is considered to be concentrated. Arms are measured in reference to that point.

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft/media/faa-h-8083-1a.pdf

(This) is a good source of information on weight and balance. The charts for weight and balance considerations are created by the aircraft manufacturer and are only recalculated if modifications to the aircraft are made that would change the center of gravity.)

1. Even though the 727 was not pressurized at the time there would have been residual pressure inside the aircraft. There is a pressure door at the top of the stairs. The opening of that door would be the most probable cause of the "pressure bump".

2. The "curtsy" would have been caused by the lowering of the stairs into the airstream and the airstream pushing the leaving the airstream. (The way the stairs are built, the wind flowing under the aircraft could have initially kept the lowered airstairs from extending into that airstream. There are many things that could have caused the stairs to enter the airstream. The most likely cause would have been the turbulence of the aircraft on the night of the jump. However, it could have been caused by Cooper climbing down the stairs to determine that passing of a check point to allow for timing an actual predetermined jump point.

3. The FBI's test is flawed because the conditions that night were not duplicated. The weather was stormy the night of the jump and with the configuration of the 727 (flaps and gear down) the turbulence caused by the wind would have been magnified. Also, they stood at the top of the stairs and pushed the 200 pound sled down, making it nearly impossible to determine the exact position of the sled when the curtsy was felt. Also, based on our experts, the curtsy would have been felt when the stairs attempted to enter the airstream and was pushed back by the airstream itself. It could not have been caused by the 200 pound sled leaving the staircase.

It is almost as if most of the "scientific evidence" being brought into this case are merely attempts to prove the FBI's theories, not attempts to determine what actually happened that night. I think Himmelsbach was closer to being correct all along. The fact that the Ariel area was searched so extensively that a small piece of the rear stair instruction plaque that blew off when the door was opened was found but no other evidence was found in the area, is better proof that the jump did not occur there than the flawed FBI test that the jump did occur there.

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

Sooooo…. ummm…. yeah… how did RobertMBlevins put Kenny in Portland on Thanksgiving weekend (Thanksgiving has been on Thursday since 1941) before the hijacking (more time travel)? The hijacking was on Wednesday.

Everyone knows the day of the crime. I just use that phrase cause it's easier than repeating Wednesday, November 24, 1971.

Can't put Kenny at the airport, no. Never said I could.

The allegation on the comic was a while back, and based on something told to us by NWA historian Jim Andersen. We found out later it was unlikely KC saw the comic on Shemya.

Anyone who has investigated the Cooper case knows it's a fluid thing for sure. If you can verify evidence, you go with it. Find out you are wrong, toss that item from the possible evidence list. This is the same as any investigation.

Farflung asks in part:

Quote

'Who said DB Cooper wore a toupee? How did the subject of a toupee even come up? Why would that come up?'

It's difficult to discuss things from the book if you haven't even READ the book. That is explained in the book. I made serious efforts to not lead witnesses, or ask them leading questions. It taints their answers. But since you are asking, Bernie's sister just mentioned it in passing during her interview. (Dawn J) She was one of the early interviews. At that time, I wasn't convinced KC was the hijacker, either. I was just the guy assigned by Porteous to interview people KC knew. She was the second person I interviewed, I think. It was a big surprise to me not when she said he owned a toupee, but when she casually ID'd the tie tac from the picture as Kenny's. THAT was a surprise for sure.

Can you puit Kenny and *&^%$W)(*&^%$ IN THE
gentleman's trailer at Paradise Park having sex?

[georger 197]

Quote

I was eating your report up with a spoon until I got to this part:

Quote

'The weather was stormy the night of the jump...'

Yeah. That's what a lot of people say. But this is the actual daily report from that day via PDX (Portland International) data:

Link to the full report is below, but here are the basics for 8PM on the night of the hijacking; 46 degrees, light showers, wind speed 6mph. Barometric pressure rising. Not exactly hurricane conditions.

Rataczak has also said that not only was there a pressure bump, but that they could feel some bouncing as the hijacker went down the stairs. There is also the matter of the indicator light coming on when the stairs opened, and then going off for a moment as the stairs bounced back up, almost closing again, when the hijacker jumped. Then the light came back on as the stairs dropped back down to 'normal' (open maybe two or three feet) and stayed on all the way to Reno.

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KPDX/1971/11/24/DailyHistory.html?

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Oscillations I believe.

And a Bumpa bumpadoo............ a diddle.

Where have I read that before?

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh?

The thread ?

Thanks for confirming the thread to the thread, Blevinator.

[georger 197]

Quote

Georger says in part:

Quote

'Can you puit Kenny and *&^%$W)(*&^%$ IN THE
gentleman's trailer at Paradise Park having sex?'

Yeah, just dig down into that garbage can a bit further when you have no argument. And you were on the Citizens' Investigation Team with Kaye? What a friggin' joke.

Geestman may have been a lot of things, but he wasn't gay. He was married with children, as the saying goes. And there has not been one single allegation, or any evidence that the reason he bought that trailer and wagon and parked it down in Oakville six weeks before the crime was for a sex rendezvous. Get real. After the date of the hijacking, it was never used again except by Helen Jones and her kids after their house burned. Then Geestman sold it to a guy from Arizona. According to your ridiculous scenario he spent a few thousand on that wagon and trailer for what again? And only one time? Oh, yeah. That makes a lot of sense.

You just don't like it that some dumb farm boy from Sumner, Washington may have figured out more about the case than you and your college-educated team. That is a personal issue.

Lay off the barely stuff, Blevinator.

Or get a sex change?

One of your synpases is not talking to the others.

[Farflung 0]

RobertMBlevins previously recaps:

“To point out the obvious, going missing doesn't mean you went to Portland, Oregon on Thanksgiving weekend 1971 to hijack a plane. Tens of thousands of people go missing each year for any number or reasons. There has to be more here to consider this person a viable suspect.”

Kenny wasn’t even missing during that time frame. He was out with his buddy Bernie having a gay old time celebrating Thanksgiving, probably by tossing salads and enjoying some stuffing.

Bernie’s divorce appeal said he wasn’t ‘giving any’ to the wife for years and years (her testimony which Bernie did not rebut). This is testimony which is certified and sworn to be the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Where and how would one get all of Bernie’s sexual activities researched? That’s kinda weird and freaky, like that woman that “knew” Kenny had a toupee…. but never saw it. Good evidence though.

[JerryThomas 0]

Blevins Im sure your an excelent Airline pilot and can read all Data and have talked to both pilots that has flown that aircraft on that day. You have the ability to go into the after life and discuss these things with the pilot.Profesionals in this field Like you don't make mistake's. So please explain everything that would cause the aircrafts reaction. At the time date and second.Im sure you can ask your candidate for Cooper this question in your next afterlife meeting.Still your studies and research has been clouded by your interpritation and quest for money. How many rewrites have you made on your book. Why? Once again why do you say that Duane Weber could have been Cooper. Its in your past post.Yet you claim your book is accurate To bad Blevins my opinion on your book means a lot same with George Nuttal And Geofs. Thats is just the way it is. One more thing please get on board and help solve this case not add fake candidates work with Geoger if you can I admit it is hard at times but he does have accsess to many new tools needed to solve this case. Jerry

[skyjack71 0]

Georger stated this in reference to Blevins alledgations:

Quote

Lay off the barely stuff, Blevinator.

Or get a sex change?

One of your synpases is not talking to the others.

Georger - you won't win any brownie points with anyone with atatements like you have been making. Don't you remember where the toupee story came from?

I don't remember the details but there was a new article about someone seeking an individual who was shopping for a hair piece and so the story came down that Cooper may have been wearing a "piece".

As for gay individuals you obviously have not known individuals who were "gay" in 1971. It was a closet thing then.
BUT, they usually did NOT meet in groups back then - so the likelyhood of the get-to-gether being a GAY bash is unlikely.

I expect the motor home was just to get away and then after it was lived in by the family due to a fire - they may just have decided it was too expensive an investment for the use it was given.

I agree - the Blevins senario is pretty far out - but, your repeating his post - just feeds him. Like JT trying to OUT me with his cutting remarks, but I have all of the posting printed out and in storage and most of them are backed-up on disks and stored in more than one place. I live in a hurricane prone area - and I have been fire phobic since I was about 13 yrs old.

Why am I fire phobic. I was 13 and my brother got hurt. My mother in her rush to take him to the hospital left in a rush. I kept smelling something and then saw the iron cord hanging down from the ceiling. I picked the iron up to set in on the its frame and FLAMES shot to the ceiling of the screened in porch. I grabbed water from the rinse tub and threw on the fire.

Rather than my mother believe SHE left the iron on - I got a horrible whipping (one from her and then my father after he got home). ALL I did was put the fire out. Since that day - I walk around and check everything more than one time before leaving. I had actually saved the house, but instead I got blamed.

It was the norm in our house for me to take whippings for things I didn't do. I got used to it. Why when Jerry uses me for a whipping board I stand up to him, but try to ignore him when I can.

I noticed you didn't give me any flax about the 2 books and I was thinking - OH here it comes! I think that one slipped up on you as I am sure it did others. What the Hell - how much more did this DUMB broad keep secret and we know JT is saying Liar liar liar.

Unfortunately JT's actions only make him look like an idiot. Note he knows or claims that media and movie makers are reading this thread - hell, they knew it was here for yrs...but, Gray's book and the 40th are causing many of them to think
"What If?" None of them will jump into a movie about Cooper, until there is something SOLID to jump onto. No one wants to see a movie about a bunch of people bickering about Cooper like kids...and name calling.

Hollywood has entertained the idea of a Cooper movie for yrs, but there was NO story there. No one wants to invest in a wannabe movie or a rat fight for the biggest piece of the take. No one wants to do a Black Op or covert thing if they can't prove it...so Hollywood lofts and they think - maybe, just maybe someone is on to something here. I love to borrow Florence Shaffners express a lot. It is fitting....right?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[JerryThomas 0]

Farflung: Totally correct,Still you have to realize that dates don't mean much to some people. They figure facts can be changed to meet the case. For instance Tina is the one that all thought could positivly Idetify Cooper.She is not. Still the Idiots persue her. Was a good plan it has worked for 40 years. Cool HuH!!!!. Researchers have been side tracked for years. Lets examine one statement made in the past . ( Tina can not be contacted and should be left alone. She is in a convent.) What part of that was not understood as a detour away from the real person that could Identify Cooper.I figured it out emediatly. Still Most did not. Just a small hidden fact in this case that can be figured out with common sense.Or should I say with a little insight given by a contact Jerry

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Farflung: Totally correct,Still you have to realize that dates don't mean much to some people. They figure facts can be changed to meet the case. For instance Tina is the one than could positivly Idetify Cooper. Still the Idiots persue her. Was a good plan it has worked for 40 years. Cool HuH!!!!. Researchers have been side tracked for years. Lets examine one statement made in the past . ( Tina can not be contacted and should be left alone. She is in a convent.) What part of that was not understood as a detour away from the real person that could Identify Cooper.I figured it out emediatly. Still Most did not. Just a small hidden fact in this case that can be figured out with common sense. Jerry

I kept her location all these yr secret because of people like you (Jerry) and like Bruce and the others that finally found her. If you show up on my door step you will be met by the sheriffs department. It is bad enough the names you call me and the accusations you make being in a thread and of course several times over the phone...but face to face - no way. YOU are a VERY scary man...in fact maybe they should lock you up and throw away the key.

Look at the FACE you are putting on for the Media - do you not think they will read back through the posts and "get it" that you always called me a liar. Jerry what would you do if it turns out that Duane Weber was Actually Cooper? Do you know where that leaves you? OUT in left field.

What happend to all of your illiterate and raging posts? They are still here for all to see...you cannot erase them?

Jerry what did you find on the "hill" after I told you where to look...you were hungry back then and now you brag about your homes and mines and wealth? Strange turn around, right guys? Maybe Jerry found something up there under a rock - remember guys I described this place as looking like a cemetery - except the markers where big Rocks. I describe the large old trees and the wire fence and the wooden gate. One lady has pictures of it just like it used to look. The way I descibed it in the thread many many times...lots of people used to hike up there and have a picnic.

Yet, you (Jerry) claimed such a place did NOT exist. You claimed in your posts there was a shopping center and homes on that site. One time you even claimed it was land that belonged to your wife's family. Yet, there was NO way you could have missed what I was talking about. That little winding road up to the top is still there only the top has changed.

The old power lines still run below there.

You Jerry called me a liar. YOU Jerry who is supposed to be the man on the ground claimed no such place existed. I didn't find it the first time or the second time, but on the third time someone else was driving and there it was. Then I have a surveyor tell me everyone knows where that place is - there was NO way if you knew the area that you didn't know the place I was talking about.

You lied Jerry.
Why did you lie about this place?

You have called me a liar since you came to this thread, but I had to put up with you calling me a liar since 2000 and now I can call you a liar. It is all in BLACK and WHITE or BLUE - right here in this thread. Eleven YRS of hell you have put me through - but, WHY?

Guys, his daughter even validates his need for $ back in the beginning. He couldn't even afford to call me - I had to call him. ??????????????

Now you talk about the old silver mines - you just won't give it up will you? You make enemies of everyone you deal with. You cut everyone's throat eventually because you successfully "set most of them up". You were only able to set me up for 4 yrs and then I turned on you and it has been a battle ever since. You tried to lead me like very one else - but, I knew what I knew and I was going to find the truth about the area and about Duane Weber.

Jerry you have a lot of explaining to do about WHY you lied to me - can you handle that?

Bet it is easier for you to continue to call me a liar.

Note to all: Suddenly Jerry is not posting like a drunk or braggart or illiterate. Wonder who is writing his posts? Jerry has to be in on everyone's story...no matter how ridiculous it is.

Got news for you Jerry - you have cost a lot of people a lot of time and money because of your lies. You just keep right on rolling them out - you jump from one to the next.

Jerry, How does it feel to be on the other side of the name calling?

I am trying to be being nice about it.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[JerryThomas 0]

Blevins : Do you wear a hair piece. If you did Would you use it as a disguise. If you did you would be stupid. It woud blow off with a blast of wind. It is easier to Identify a person with hair. A bald person looks like a lot of bald people eye color does'nt matter . Generally Brown hair Brown eyes . Blonde hair blue eyes. A hair piece would be a stupid idea. Wrong color wrong eyes. Just like the eye color Of cooper what was it It could have been brown as seen through sun glasses. Behind sunglasses eyes that are blue look brown. or dark green Without glasses in the lighe of a aircraft they all have a greenish brown tint especialy if they are actualy blue. Still eye color can never be a Identifying mark when it comes to Identifying a suspect. This I guarantee. and can prove.So facial features. lets diccuss this Everyone Identifies a person differently. Some identify a person as white Others will Identify the same suspect as hispanic or olive complexin There are cases that have Idetified a blue eyed hispanic of Rape and it turned out to be a brown eyed white male. and also the opisite. Recently. and in the past.So as you can see The FBI can not dismiss any candidate as a suspect with out running all test avaliable. This they have done with all but one.Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Jo what Bs are you posting Now .You never new anything to keep secret. Hell you can't even keep your actions from this forum secret.Why are you continuing to lie your booty off.Is this a desperate attempt to to save face. If it is, please explain your past post and the lies you hvae been caught in. Jo as orange one said enough is enough. or better yet as all others has posted . isn't there another quest that you can pursue. Oh will ! Please continue to post your lies and new stories. Bruce smith enjoys themJerry

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

. This they have done with all but one.Jerry

Yea, Jerry and when they do I will show you where he is buried!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 37]

Quote

BS writes:

Basically what we learned is that a 180 to 200 pound object "leaving" the plane would not be noticeable in any manner on a plane the size of a 727, even considering the position (arm) of the end of the stairs in relation to the center of gravity on the plane. (The center of gravity is the point where the weight of the plane is considered to be concentrated. Arms are measured in reference to that point.

R99 replies:

The above is probably an overstatement of the facts. The airliner was being hand flown and it could possibly be noticeable to the pilot flying the airplane depending on a number of other factors.

BS writes:

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft/media/faa-h-8083-1a.pdf

(This) is a good source of information on weight and balance. The charts for weight and balance considerations are created by the aircraft manufacturer and are only recalculated if modifications to the aircraft are made that would change the center of gravity.)

R99 replies:

This is nonsense. The Federal Air Regulations require that the pilot of any aircraft determine the weight and balance and center of gravity for every flight. They must be within approved limits.

BS writes:

1. Even though the 727 was not pressurized at the time there would have been residual pressure inside the aircraft. There is a pressure door at the top of the stairs. The opening of that door would be the most probable cause of the "pressure bump".

R99 replies:

If there was a "residual pressure" inside the aircraft then the aircraft would have been pressurized and it probably would have been impossible for Cooper to open that door. In reality, the pressure door was probably opened before takeoff and certainly before Tina went to the cockpit.

BS writes:

2. The "curtsy" would have been caused by the lowering of the stairs into the airstream and the airstream pushing the leaving the airstream. (The way the stairs are built, the wind flowing under the aircraft could have initially kept the lowered airstairs from extending into that airstream. There are many things that could have caused the stairs to enter the airstream. The most likely cause would have been the turbulence of the aircraft on the night of the jump. However, it could have been caused by Cooper climbing down the stairs to determine that passing of a check point to allow for timing an actual predetermined jump point.

R99 replies:

When the rear stairs are unlocked, they will free fall until the weight of the stairs is equal to the upward aerodynamic forces on the underside of the stairs. They will descend further when additional weight is placed on the stairs. The weather was not exceptional on the night of the flight and, since the airliner was above about three broken cloud layers plus a complete overcast, there is no way that Cooper could have determined a jump point.

BS writes:

3. The FBI's test is flawed because the conditions that night were not duplicated. The weather was stormy the night of the jump and with the configuration of the 727 (flaps and gear down) the turbulence caused by the wind would have been magnified. Also, they stood at the top of the stairs and pushed the 200 pound sled down, making it nearly impossible to determine the exact position of the sled when the curtsy was felt. Also, based on our experts, the curtsy would have been felt when the stairs attempted to enter the airstream and was pushed back by the airstream itself. It could not have been caused by the 200 pound sled leaving the staircase.

R99 replies:

Again, the weather was not exceptional the night of the hijacking and there was no point in duplicating those conditions. When Cooper or the sled left the bottom of the stairs, the aerodynamic forces pushing the stairs up would be sufficient to slam the stairs against the fuselage. There is no other means to generate that pressure bump reported by the flight crew.

BS writes:

It is almost as if most of the "scientific evidence" being brought into this case are merely attempts to prove the FBI's theories, not attempts to determine what actually happened that night. I think Himmelsbach was closer to being correct all along. The fact that the Ariel area was searched so extensively that a small piece of the rear stair instruction plaque that blew off when the door was opened was found but no other evidence was found in the area, is better proof that the jump did not occur there than the flawed FBI test that the jump did occur there.

R99 replies:

The night of the hijacking, the winds at 10,000 feet were between 25 to 30 knots from the southwest. If the rear stairs placard was actually found in the Ariel area, it would have to be blown there from a point several miles to the southwest of Ariel. Also, there is no actual proof that the airliner overflew Ariel.

The FBI tests were to determine the time of the pressure bump, and to then estimate the location of the aircraft from that.

[377 21]

Quote

3. The FBI's test is flawed because the conditions that night were not duplicated. The weather was stormy the night of the jump and with the configuration of the 727 (flaps and gear down) the turbulence caused by the wind would have been magnified. Also, they stood at the top of the stairs and pushed the 200 pound sled down, making it nearly impossible to determine the exact position of the sled when the curtsy was felt. Also, based on our experts, the curtsy would have been felt when the stairs attempted to enter the airstream and was pushed back by the airstream itself. It could not have been caused by the 200 pound sled leaving the staircase.

Don't forget what I posted about jumping the DC 9 out of the ventral door. Each exiting jumper created a very noticeable pressure bump. You could hear it and feel it even in the front of the plane. It was a "thunk" sound. Some have postulated that it was a reflected pressure wave from the jumper hitting the slipstream. I am not an aero engineer so i dont have a tight explanation, but I guarantee you I could have accurately counted every jumper who exited before me even if I had been blindfolded.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 197]

Four weeks after that, Helen Jones ran into Kenny at the laundromat and he admitted to being with Geestman. You can cut that any number of ways, and it doesn't prove they did the hijacking. But it is another small piece of circumstantial evidence showing opportunity.

[georger 197]

Quote

I don't recall if I mentioned this, but after the slideshows last weekend and the Good Old Daysl]

You have posted all of this now twice at least.

Nobody cares!

You are taking up valuable bandwidth -
as you constantly remind us.