DB Cooper

[Farflung 0]

These things are welcomed like free proctology exams here but I thought there may me one or two people that would be interested so here are some examples of Cooper Copy-cats.

Martin McNally - Never Jumped, Accomplice None, Night Jump

Richard McCoy - Sport Jumper, Accomplice None, Night Jump

Charles LaPoint - Former Paratrooper, Accomplice None, Day Jump

Robb Heady - Sport Jumper, Accomplice None, Night Jump

All lived, two lost the money during the jump (Heady, McNally), All crews landed immediately after these four jumps, two brought their own parachutes (Heady/McCoy), The night jumpers remained free the longest (relative since all were captured within 5 days).

Any theories on where these guys selected their aliases? Comic books or a name selected because it secretly shows rage against the government is a favorite for Cooper and has absolutely no basis or a way to verify that data. This probably explains this attribute better than any.

All the chutes, money, guns and pants lost or discarded during the jumps were discovered within a week.

No one waiting on the ground for them, except LaPoint and that being the Sheriff’s Department who were following his footprints in the snow (is snow cold?). McCoy and McNally made it home where they were arrested and Heady was walking to his car when police arrested him. Apparently Heady stashed his car near the DZ and the police noticed a USPA bumper sticker on the vehicle soooooo….

Now Cooper’s night jump is lethal even with his ‘special ops’ training (I know 377 don’t touch) with him likely having an accomplice waiting on the ground.

[Mr.Green 0]

Skyjack must be a hot item. I took the hour drive into the city. No luck at all. wal-Mart,Target, Borders and a few other stores. I could order it but it might be a couple of months before I return. SOL I guess.

[Farflung 0]

RobertMBlevins characterizes distance as:

“...the authors speculated this spot might have been Paradise Point State Park. It's on a river, only a few feet from the freeway, and a very short distance from where the money was found.”

As long as short distance is defined as 25 miles then I guess that would be correct.

As long as the money would float upstream from the river at Paradise Point State Park; then that would help the theory also.

[skyjack71 0]

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For those new to the DZ forum and the DB Cooper case, I invite you to also visit my online news magazine, The Mountain News - WA.

I offer an overvierw of the case and an investigatory look at many of the mysteries of the case.

http://themountainnewswa.net/category/db-cooper/

Blevins you are right - this Stinks!
This man has pictures of an innocent woman who was a victim of Coopers and smeared pictures of her as she exists today across the country - putting this woman in jeopardy.

I along with many others have entertained the idea of meeting Tina Muchklow for one reason or another. Mine is to ask her about the 2 books and the picture of the little girl, but I have NOT done so. I had her address for over 8 yrs - actually longer, but was unable to verified it until 2003. She knows how to contact individuals and if she wished to do so - she would do it on her own.

Mr. Blevins, You are very descriptive of Gray's reading which I think need repeating below:

Quoted from Blevins post

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When your name came up in discussions after Geoff Gray's reading, it was a lot like that scene from Young Frankenstein. Instead of 'Blucher,' the word was 'Smith,' and the horses whinnied.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

• Quote

[skyjack71 0]

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Now Cooper’s night jump is lethal even with his ‘special ops’ training (I know 377 don’t touch) with him likely having an accomplice waiting on the ground.

Farflugh - I have been aware of this for yrs and yrs - no secret at all...just no one cared.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 197]

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For those new to the DZ forum and the DB Cooper case, I invite you to also visit my online news magazine, The Mountain News - WA.

I offer an overvierw of the case and an investigatory look at many of the mysteries of the case.

http://themountainnewswa.net/category/db-cooper/

Pictures of you were passed out to off-duty cops and festival security for Auburn's Good Old Days. I sent them to your article about the Dormuth's. They didn't like it, either. Nothing like trying a little internet extortion to get what you want. Are you kidding me? Make yourself a promo sheet on professional conduct for interviews and journalistic behavior and start following it. Side Note: You probably shouldn't post up an article saying you interviewed Tina Mucklow when she basically blew you off. (*laughs*)

The pictures of Mucklow today are news. But the source stinks when you say first you are trying to 'protect her'. I still think you missed your calling. Insert Theme Song Here.

When your name came up in discussions after Geoff Gray's reading, it was a lot like that scene from Young Frankenstein. Instead of 'Blucher,' the word was 'Smith,' and the horses whinnied.

Sheriff Blevins at it again.

You sure are one egotistical "graffiti artist"!

Here again Blevins. The similarity between you
and Jo Weber is amazing. I see a pattern. You
just can't help yourself.

And you wonder why people post the things they
do about you? Yours above is a pretty good
illustration of why -

[377 21]

Farflung wrote

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As long as the money would float upstream from the river at Paradise Point State Park; then that would help the theory also

Are you forgetting Tom K's boat propeller snag upstream transport theory?

To be fair to Tom, that quote was taken out of context. As I recall he had been asked if there was any way something could move upstream, and of course there is.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 21]

Farflung wrote:

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Martin McNally - Never Jumped, Accomplice None, Night Jump

Richard McCoy - Sport Jumper, Accomplice None, Night Jump

Charles LaPoint - Former Paratrooper, Accomplice None, Day Jump

Robb Heady - Sport Jumper, Accomplice None, Night Jump

Snow raised all those jumps too, but the WASHOUGAL DEATH WOODS legend endures. Why? Amazon, time for you to join the debate once again.

We have many examples of successful jet hijack jumps and even one by a Whuffo. Why does Jerry and the FBI insist that Cooper's jump HAD to be fatal?

Amazon has some highly relevant qualifications and knows the area. She does not share Jerry's certain fatality outlook.

I still stubbornly cling to my theory that DBC KNEW FOR SURE that a 727 could be jumped. Otherwise he was dumber than a rock. Without that certainty he had a very good chance of trapped aboard. Sure, there would be a big hostage drama when the plane landed with him aboard, but it would end with him jailed or killed. I have a hunch that knowledge of the jumpability of the 727 actually lead to the intial thinking about how to do the crime. Sure, it's just a hunch, but it's my hunch and I like it.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 197]

I still stubbornly cling to my theory that DBC KNEW FOR SURE that a 727 could be jumped. Otherwise he was dumber than a rock. Without that certainty he had a very good chance of trapped aboard. Sure, there would be a big hostage drama when the plane landed with him aboard, but it would end with him jailed or killed. I have a hunch that knowledge of the jumpability of the 727 actually lead to the intial thinking about how to do the crime. Sure, it's just a hunch, but it's my hunch and I like it.

377

[Orange1 0]

I think:
Cooper knew the 727 could be jumped. I think this points to someone with jumping experience or at least exposure, like a loadmaster.
So is the jump survivable? Sure. Does that mean that Cooper necessarily survived, though? No. Look at the incidents pages, they are full of people dying on survivable jumps.

I do think the chances of a whuffo surviving the jump are way less than for an experienced jumper. Apart from the blindingly obvious reasons, this is also because as far as we know, the rig was a hard pull.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 21]

Blevins wrote

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Pictures of you were passed out to off-duty cops and festival security for Auburn's Good Old Days

Robert and others: This is a skydiving website. Threats of lawsuits and calling the cops don't play well at any DZ, really. Try settling personal beefs without involving the courts or the police. Whatever Bruce did or said falls short of a crime in my book. Also, the courts and cops are so busy with REAL crime, serious stuff, that adding minor matters to their workload is just stupid.

If Tina felt threatened let HER call the cops. If she wants a restraining order let HER apply for one, they are easy to obtain.

Obnoxiious behavior and breaches of journalitsic etiquette or protocol are not crimes. Even if you could stretch a statute to cover what Bruce did it isnt worth burdening the cops or the courts with. Have some sense of proportion. There are big deals and there are little deals.

Class dismissed.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 21]

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as far as we know, the rig was a hard pull.

We only assume it was a hard pull because Cossey said so. Cossey seems to enjoy spoofing and playing with people who inquire about the Norjack gear. We have a few examples of that.

A C9 canopy in an NB6 rig doesnt have to be a hard pull, even if the handle has been moved to right outboard. Cossey allegedly has told some people it was an NB8 not an NB6. An NB8 has a larger container volume. Even an NB6 container can be extended giving more volume inside the closed rig. It's an easy job for a rigger and many surplus rigs had this mod done.

The bailout rig that Cooper jumped was originally configured as someone's last chance to survive.
It was probably made for a jumpship pilot. Does it make sense that you'd set it up to be nearly impossible or highly difficult to open? Some jumpship pilots have bailed out VERY low as most wait for all the paseengers to get out first if there is a fire or structural failue. A hard pull adds deadly seconds to deploying a chute. Does that make sense for an emergency rig?

Think about it.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 21]

If you knew the details about the Air America 727 jumps you'd know that you needn't slow down to freefall terminal velocity and that you could safely deploy right from the steps if the plane was flying at a reasonable speed and you were using a C9 canopy.

You could face forward on the steps, pull the ripcord and be pulled off as the chute deploys. That way there is no freefall tumbling or disorientation. It would also allow the jumper to resolve a hard pull from the safety of the stairs rather than in the midst of a terrifying tumble in the night sky.

Skydivers know that you can do pulloff deployments. That's the way very early parachute jumps were made from biplanes. A jumper would go out to the end of the wing to avoid a tail snag and pull the ripcord. The deploying chute would pull him off.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

I’m an advocate of the data rather than a theory so time for me to open a can of Duplicity and have a drink.

These four case studies survived the jump, most at night and one who had not jumped before. All of them were caught and the associated gear like chutes, guns, money and yes pants were all found in a short span of time.

Cooper is gone. All of his associated paraphernalia is gone except some money that was found on a riverbank. That placard is another data point that was discovered within a couple miles of the V-23 airway.

If Cooper survived like McCoy, McNally, Heady and LaPoint then why wasn’t a chute, shoes, briefcase, grocery bag or pants found from his jump? He simply must be that good.

In order to make him ‘good’ the special ops training, aviation skills and accomplices must be added to the mix so Occam will not stir.

If those ingredients can be added with so little precedence or justification what would make the addition of Sasquatch piloted Roswell flying saucers appear to be absurd? We already have bundles of money which will travel upstream or be used as a decoy. Is this about designating the World’s Tallest Midget at this point?

If Cooper pranged into the Washougal, a marsh or the Columbia then he could have been a CIA trained ninja or some Goober that perched on an Everett barstool long enough to learn how to be dangerous. I got problems with a ‘Skygod’ that can’t use an interphone properly, open the aft stairs and selects a dummy reserve to jump.

If Cooper lived (evidence please) then he most certainly could enter the pantheon of trained jumper as the majority of the case studies have indicated.

I still dig the thought of a Bigfoot controlled UFO grabbing Cooper midair but he misjudges his speed and snags Cooper’s chute too hard which knock three bundles of money out of the bag. Stupid Bigfoots.

[377 21]

Farf wrote

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In order to make him ‘good’ the special ops training, aviation skills and accomplices must be added to the mix so Occam will not stir.

Of course. We want our legend to be a James Bond type not a dufus who skyjacked a 727 without knowing knowing if he could exit much less susccessfully don, deploy, fly and land a parachute.

We want him highly skilled, cunning and to have survived. Good looks, smart and mad skilz. That's our guy.

It's just human nature and outcome bias working in beautiful harmony.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[JerryThomas 0]

Cooperscooper the jump has not been duplicated. If it had it would have been done by a person with little experience and out of the same aircraft at the same time of day under the same conditions over the same area at the same time of year and all weather conditions. Those that has atempted the jump since were experienced jumpers and did not have money bags or wear low quarters and a suite.Nor was it raining.If you yourself do not have jump experience let me hook you up with the same conditions and you jump out of a airliner over that area in Nov. and see if you survive. Jerry

[georger 197]

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Blevins wrote

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Pictures of you were passed out to off-duty cops and festival security for Auburn's Good Old Days

Robert and others: This is a skydiving website. Threats of lawsuits and calling the cops don't play well at any DZ, really. Try settling personal beefs without involving the courts or the police. Whatever Bruce did or said falls short of a crime in my book. Also, the courts and cops are so busy with REAL crime, serious stuff, that adding minor matters to their workload is just stupid.

If Tina felt threatened let HER call the cops. If she wants a restraining order let HER apply for one, they are easy to obtain.

Obnoxiious behavior and breaches of journalitsic etiquette or protocol are not crimes. Even if you could stretch a statute to cover what Bruce did it isnt worth burdening the cops or the courts with. Have some sense of proportion. There are big deals and there are little deals.

Class dismissed.

377

Strikes me as all personal jealousy on Blevin's part.
His Majesty is upset because Bruce got the drop on
him. Blevins would have loved to present Tina's
photos! Instead it was ..... Galen Cook!

Blevins has made no bones about it since arriving
here. He hates Galen Cook's guts. Why? Probably
jealousy again.

Blevins keeps railing about Bruce and the photos
of Tina. Bruce didnt take those photos. Galen Cook
did, obviously with Tina's awareness. Bruce then
published the photos with Galen Cook's permission.
So what's the bug up Blevin's patoot about ?

What has any of this got to do with Robt M Blevins?

Nothing!

I think Blevins needs to get a life and find his own
skillet to cook in ?

[JerryThomas 0]

Farflung are you sure your a Monkey and not a look alike. You've been making some good intelegent post's lately. Shame on you actually another good point and will made. The area in which Cooper chose to jump is very hard to travel through unless its down a stream and its full of cliffs. Ask Geof Gray he's talked to the locals and has seen the conditions first hand.. Jerry

[377 21]

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Cooperscooper the jump has not been duplicated. If it had it would have been done by a person with little experience and out of the same aircraft at the same time of day under the same conditions over the same area at the same time of year and all weather conditions. Those that has atempted the jump since were experienced jumpers and did not have money bags or wear low quarters and a suite.Nor was it raining.If you yourself do not have jump experience let me hook you up with the same conditions and you jump out of a airliner over that area in Nov. and see if you survive. Jerry

No thanks Jerry. I like to speculate about the survivability of the jump but replicating it takes considerably more courage than I have. I'm the guy sitting it out when the winds get above 20 knots at my DZ. I'm the guy who lets the crazies do the crazy stuff and feels no need to emulate them.

Snow offered to do it for $5000 and he really is a man of his word. He has no jump experience but is in great shape and has a LOT of ice climbing and rock climbing experience. I'd bet he'd survive and be able to walk out to a road.

Some TV producers ought to hire Snow and do a special. Stunt men charge way more than $5000 for a stunt like this. You wouldn't need to charter a jet, a tailgate Skyvan, Herc or CASA 212 could fly at the same speed as a 727 configured for dropping. A Skyvan could be brought up from Arizona at moderate expense compared to a jet. Geraldo Rivera could narrate the show. Marla Cooper could be in it too. She really needs a break.

I have jumpable radio telemetry gear that would give us his position, altitude, speed, course, heart rate, temperature and blood oxygen level (SPO2) .

Amazon hinted that she could do the jump. How about it Amazon? Whats your price?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[JerryThomas 0]

377: Excelent Idea but I'm not sure risking Snow's life is worth it. I don't have as much faith in his abilities as you do. Remember I'm also experienced in Rock climbing High altitude climbing and Glacier travel and rescue as will as assault climbers course I was even an Instructeor in these fields. In Alaska. So forgive me if I have my doubts. Jerry

[Robert99 37]

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as far as we know, the rig was a hard pull.

We only assume it was a hard pull because Cossey said so. Cossey seems to enjoy spoofing and playing with people who inquire about the Norjack gear. We have a few examples of that.

A C9 canopy in an NB6 rig doesnt have to be a hard pull, even if the handle has been moved to right outboard. Cossey allegedly has told some people it was an NB8 not an NB6. An NB8 has a larger container volume. Even an NB6 container can be extended giving more volume inside the closed rig. It's an easy job for a rigger and many surplus rigs had this mod done.

The bailout rig that Cooper jumped was originally configured as someone's last chance to survive.
It was probably made for a jumpship pilot. Does it make sense that you'd set it up to be nearly impossible or highly difficult to open? Some jumpship pilots have bailed out VERY low as most wait for all the paseengers to get out first if there is a fire or structural failue. A hard pull adds deadly seconds to deploying a chute. Does that make sense for an emergency rig?

Think about it.

377

377, There is no evidence that Cooper knew that a C9 canopy was (supposedly) in that container or that it would be a (supposedly) hard pull.

But Cooper definitely knew the 727 could be jumped.

[Farflung 0]

I’ve got to question how a request for two back and two front parachutes translates into military experience. If I asked for two irons and two woods will this make me an avid golfer? Well of course not because just like skydiving, I still don’t have the balls.

Cooper could (could that is) have been presented with a pair of sport parachutes placarded for 150 knots max. Would that become proof he was a sport jumper?

I would have asked for a C-9 for one simple reason. It’s the only chute I know about. It has another distinct feature that I like in that it was designed so an unconscious pilot would land and live. I would not have requested any reserve chutes because I have no idea what those are or how to use them.

I would have used the interphone like a pro and even said, ‘Ahhhhhhh roge…. ahhhhh pilot, hijacker ahhhh…. say bearing and DME PDX over.’

Then I would have opened whatever I damned well felt like in that aircraft and jumped into infamy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIY8CoMILgU

[BruceSmith 3]

I have been asked in an email about my views of the FBI and their effectiveness and trustworthiness. Here is my response:

"If the FBI wants the DBC case solved, then where are the 'DB Cooper' letters, the cigarettes butts, the hair strands and whatever was retrieved from the head rest, such as possible clothing fibers? Also, where is Larry Carr, why was he removed from the case? Surely consistency in the case officer is the best way of solving any case. Further, why did they bungle the LD Cooper scenario, calling it a "most promising" lead before they conducted fingerprint and DNA analysis? Lastly, where is all the stuff from Barb Dayton's family that they gave to the FBI for DNA analysis - Larry says he never saw it but the Forman's attorney delivered it to the Bureau and Special Agent Jeremy Blauser - after all he requested the material.

Lastly, how come the FBI doesn't return my phone calls or emails?

As for other questionable FBI investigations, how about JFK, RFK, and MLK. Everbody feeling comfy about those findings? Or how come not one single guy on Wall Street has been convicted of bringing the world economy to its knees?

Or, closer to (my) home, how come the FBI surveillance team couldn't find the parole-violator-soon -to-be-double-homicide-perp down the street from me despite camping out in the woods for two weeks ( Daniel Tavares)? But the neighbors knew where he was and told me - he was hard to miss since he had prison tattoos on his neck. One of the neighbors even gave me the business card of one of the investigators, whom I called but then my editor received a phone call from the Washington State Patrol about my inquiry and I was pulled from the story. (Mauck homicides, Nov. 17, 2007; Detective George Mars, WSP, misidentifying himself as an FBI agent to my neighbors but was nevertheless actively participating in a joint surveillance operation with the Bureau in Graham, Washington from approx Oct 25 until Nov. 3. Personally, I don't think they were looking for the perp, but rather, the perp's handlers as I think the murders were a political hit. Archived at www.dispatchnews.com)."

[BruceSmith 3]

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Cooperscooper the jump has not been duplicated. If it had it would have been done by a person with little experience and out of the same aircraft at the same time of day under the same conditions over the same area at the same time of year and all weather conditions. Those that has atempted the jump since were experienced jumpers and did not have money bags or wear low quarters and a suite.Nor was it raining.If you yourself do not have jump experience let me hook you up with the same conditions and you jump out of a airliner over that area in Nov. and see if you survive. Jerry

No thanks Jerry. I like to speculate about the survivability of the jump but replicating it takes considerably more courage than I have. I'm the guy sitting it out when the winds get above 20 knots at my DZ. I'm the guy who lets the crazies do the crazy stuff and feels no need to emulate them.

Snow offered to do it for $5000 and he really is a man of his word. He has no jump experience but is in great shape and has a LOT of ice climbing and rock climbing experience. I'd bet he'd survive and be able to walk out to a road.

Some TV producers ought to hire Snow and do a special. Stunt men charge way more than $5000 for a stunt like this. You wouldn't need to charter a jet, a tailgate Skyvan, Herc or CASA 212 could fly at the same speed as a 727 configured for dropping. A Skyvan could be brought up from Arizona at moderate expense compared to a jet. Geraldo Rivera could narrate the show. Marla Cooper could be in it too. She really needs a break.

I have jumpable radio telemetry gear that would give us his position, altitude, speed, course, heart rate, temperature and blood oxygen level (SPO2) .

Amazon hinted that she could do the jump. How about it Amazon? Whats your price?

377

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This is truly a great idea. Wow. What a TV special it would make if done in Ariel this November! Let's see, I need money and I have three months to learn how to jump out of an airplane. Anbody got ten grand and a 727?

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[georger 197]

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I’ve got to question how a request for two back and two front parachutes translates into military experience. If I asked for two irons and two woods will this make me an avid golfer? Well of course not because just like skydiving, I still don’t have the balls.

Cooper could (could that is) have been presented with a pair of sport parachutes placarded for 150 knots max. Would that become proof he was a sport jumper?

Exactly.

He could have decided to jump off that plane by
merely observing it has rear stairs, assumed they
be opened in flight, and all he needed was 4
parachutes - 'and I will chose which ever one looks
best' ...... all from the comfort of an airport.

Kids touch stoves every day all by just watching
mom cook.

The world is full of people trying things they have
no business trying and never tried before, or
assume they will survive doing, and most survive.
Drivers are a good example!

Now if this was a science blog people would be
talking about his mathematical skills or "it was a
govt conpsiracy and never happened"!

And on every single blog there is always somebody
who "knows" what happened or "how it had to be"
based on .... that person's personal bias.

And, if NORAD had not cancelled the order to put
chaf in the chutes, we might know more today!
Pay no attention to that.

And white people cant tell a black person's story.
And black people can't tell a white person's story.
Or Greek tell a Turk's story and converse. Or a
Sioux tell a Navaho's story .... and so it goes.

Only someone in Auburn WA can tell the REAL
Cooper story! Let's wait and be told!