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DB Cooper

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A few thoughts..

 

Regarding the videos posted by Robert and Eric yesterday and the nature of law enforcement agencies. LEA's and the people who work for them are often arrogant and self-superior, and wouldn't imagine that they'd need the public's help in solving cases. When they do ask for the public's help, they are not inviting the public to look over evidence hoping they (the public) find or figure something that they (the LEA) has overlooked; they (LEA) are hoping that someone with specific knowledge will come forward with new evidence.

 

14 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Shutter brings up a good point when he asks how many times do you believe a 727 flew with the airstairs down, which would give opportunity for the card to fly away from the jet. Simple point, but a good one.

That's the second time you've mentioned that. Actually, Shutter did not make that statement. The reason I bring this up is because your attention to detail was a bit off there, and such errors can solidify in one's mind and affect the way one perceives evidence.

 

4 hours ago, 377 said:

I've never seen a 24 ft white ripstop conical. Dudeman? All the white ripstop conicals I saw pre 1971 were Navy 26 ft ones. 

I'm not a rigger and I don't know the specifics of older gear. (Although I do know a bit about Navy conicals - my first reserve ride was on one, one that was four years older than I was.) Jerry Baumchen, who posts elsewhere on this site, might know. I was thinking of asking him about that 'other' Steinthal canopy that was ascribed to one of the bailout rigs, whether that might be a pilot chute.

 

1 hour ago, 377 said:

377

Did you see my answers to your PM a while back?

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10 hours ago, 4lcy0ne said:

From what I can gather here, it is actually unknown who the author was.  Unless you can provide a name, then this is all speculation and hearsay.  Even if you got a name from Dona (didn't she pass a few years ago?), you can't prove it was the author, correct me if I am wrong.  It could have been someone fronting, or even a stooge hired by Cooper to pose as the author.   I get you have assessed it was a "pro job", but perhaps it was hired out by Cooper?  The one thing we can say with certainty is Cooper had enough money to hire editors and illustrators.

The name of the artist credited with the cover and interior artwork is given in the book. He's from Portland. He is a REAL person, you can look him up using his name. He is still selling art today. Anyone who has read the book can tell it is fiction. It's not reality, my friend. If you want the true name of the author, you should ask the artist. I gave his name in my original post. Maybe I will do this myself. I just was never that interested in finding out, but it can be done. 

Come on. Next you will be saying the Joad family in the movie The Grapes of Wrath was real. They weren't, although there were many families like them. B|

According to all available media reports, and our extensive notes regarding the chute found in Amboy, WA in 2008, Earl Cossey never said the following about that chute, although Shutter claims he did:

Quote

'Cossey stated the canopy was 34 feet in diameter and was a cargo chute from WW2. similar to the T-10...'

You either have to quote a solid source for this alleged statement, or I have to take it as a made-up statement. Everything available says Cossey wrote off the chute because he said it was made of silk, not nylon, and that was the reason. He NEVER gave a type, or a size. Not only that, but silk chutes were generally not being used later in WW2 because of a shortage of silk, most of which was coming from Japan prior to the war. Pictures posted of the chute itself have been discounted by experts such as 377 and others regarding this claim of silk construction. They say ripstop nylon. During the war, the available silk WAS diverted to parachutes, but only for a while because there simply wasn't enough silk to cover the demand. In 1942, it was actually a woman who jump tested the first nylon parachute. By the time of the Amboy chute's production date (Looks like either 'FEB 1948' or 'FEB 1946' in pictures) all chutes were being made of nylon. So Cossey's claim is basically baloney, if you'll excuse me for being frank about it. Faced with these facts, I have to say that both your quote of Cossey, as well as Cossey's own claim of 'silk not nylon', both originate from a place where facts do not live. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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16 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

The name of the artist credited with the cover and interior artwork is given in the book. He's from Portland. He is a REAL person, you can look him up using his name. He is still selling art today. Anyone who has read the book can tell it is fiction. It's not reality, my friend. If you want the true name of the author, you should ask the artist. I gave his name in my original post. Maybe I will do this myself. I just was never that interested in finding out, but it can be done. 

Come on. Next you will be saying the Joad family in the movie The Grapes of Wrath was real. They weren't, although there were many families like them. B|

I am not saying it is real or true.  All I am saying is that you have no conclusive proof it is a work of fiction, nor do you have any proof of who the real author is.  I have to put this in my files as speculation and hearsay.   The artist is irrelevant.  Anyone can hire an artist, including Cooper.  Are you saying there is no possible way Cooper could have provided the manuscript to an editor and/or hired this artist?  If you got a lead on the true author, please confirm if it's not too much trouble.  The story of Ha Ha Ha just does not make sense as a work of fiction.  Less than 20% of that book has anything to do with the Cooper skyjack.  Most of that story is a flashback of the authors earlier escapades.  Seems like if Pro authors were going to publish a book posing as DB Cooper they would have stuck to the plot.

 

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1 hour ago, mrshutter45 said:

I've told you Robert. the article is easily found. Try the new option "Google". you would be surprised what you could find. Cossey himself states it...

Don't be condescending please. Why should I search for a quote in an article? I'm not the one who claimed that statement was truth. 

Besides...multiple OTHER articles from established media show Cossey wrote off the Amboy chute (his words) 'in less than ten seconds,' and that he told everyone the reason the chute wasn't Cooper's is because he said it was made of silk, and not nylon. This is known NOT to be true, i.e. silk construction. More detailed media reports from the Seattle Times newspaper and other sources state that the FBI stuffed the chute into the trunk of a government car and dumped it in his driveway. And that's when Cossey said he only looked at it for ten seconds and told them it wasn't the chute. His other claims make any later statement doubtful at best, and it doesn't sound like anyone measured the thing except the FBI. And they said it was the right size to be Cooper's. 

In my opinion, as far as the Amboy chute goes, Cossey's testimony has almost no credibility anymore. If we could ask him today, then it might be a different story, but we can't. 

As far as HA HA HA goes, if some people want to believe it was written by Cooper himself, who am I to shatter their illusions? B|

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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I stand by the statement. easy to find. the statement was made by one Earl Cossey..we all know 10 seconds is probably off. I'm mean you couldn't find out things in your field that quick, right? It would take me about 20 seconds to find out products in my profession were different or installed by others. hell, sometimes I know within 5 seconds or less. 

I'm positive more occurred past his "10 second" conclusion. I'll bet that was his initial response looking at the chute. you take things literal too often. 

 

Edited by mrshutter45

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2 hours ago, mrshutter45 said:

I stand by the statement. easy to find. the statement was made by one Earl Cossey..we all know 10 seconds is probably off. I'm mean you couldn't find out things in your field that quick, right? It would take me about 20 seconds to find out products in my profession were different or installed by others. hell, sometimes I know within 5 seconds or less. 

I'm positive more occurred past his "10 second" conclusion. I'll bet that was his initial response looking at the chute. you take things literal too often. 

 

It's not YOUR statement. It's one you say was allegedly made by Cossey. Without a link or a reference, it's unsupported, and this is goes to credibility when you quote a human person and can't support it with even a simple reference. It's no better than if I tell you that Cossey told the papers that he was sure Kenny was the hijacker, and then tell you I stand by that as well. B|(Which I don't, since Cossey never said that either.)

This is the third time you've been asked to provide a simple reference. I think if you had one, you would have provided it by now. Otherwise, I have to write it off as a Cooper Myth. Or a Janet Fable. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Nobody's calling you a thing except maybe sloppy. You make a pretty bold statement that can't be found in articles relating to the Amboy chute, assign that statement to Cossey, and don't bother to show a bit of proof or even an internet reference to an article. Where is this MY job? LOL if you're going to quote people you should be ready to show where the quote is, otherwise I have to assume you made it up. 

If it's soooo easy to find....why didn't you provide the reference in the first place? Without that, I'm writing it off as another Cooper Myth. I don't think you HAVE a reference. xD

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1 hour ago, mrshutter45 said:

Sure I have a reference. it's not a myth. it's a fact that's no different than the other articles found about the chute. I fail to see how it's a bold statement when anyone researching the case should of known this for years? 

 

It's bold because it goes against every single article we have printed up in AB's Amboy Chute file, and doesn't match anything previously said by Cossey regarding the chute itself, etc. Without a proper reference provided, I have to write off Cossey's statement as either a myth, a mistake on your part, or more likely...someone 'told' you he said that. 

You should know we have a file almost a hundred pages long on the finding of the chute, and what happened to it afterward. This includes the printed-up versions of media articles, statements by the Seattle FBI about it, notes on Cossey's statements to media, results of our phone calls to the FBI, etc. 

Here's an example of a reference to back up a claim:  THIS article leads to the story of Denise R (niece of alleged Cooper accomplice Bernie Geestman) stepping forward in front of movie cameras and relating (in detail) how she (*allegedly*) saw Kenny Christiansen constructing what was probably the phony bomb used in the hijacking. That's a reference, since it gives names and details, etc. and is credited. The WordPress version is HERE. See how easy that was? :o

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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" parachute found in Amboy was not from Flight 305 as it was too large at 34-feet in diameter"

“Since it is an open case I can’t give you any specifics…but I can tell you that we did look into it (the Amboy chute)…I can also tell you that it is not a lead we are pursuing at this time"

You can write it off that's okay by me. probably Cooper's, right...

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35 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

" parachute found in Amboy was not from Flight 305 as it was too large at 34-feet in diameter"

“Since it is an open case I can’t give you any specifics…but I can tell you that we did look into it (the Amboy chute)…I can also tell you that it is not a lead we are pursuing at this time"

You can write it off that's okay by me. probably Cooper's, right...

And these statements from unknown sources come from WHERE again? Anybody can type up stuff and stick quotes behind it and try to call it truth, Dave. You don't even credit the source. It is laughable at best, and at worst...pathetic. Since the word 'you' is used, this sounds like an email to me. This tells everyone that there IS no official reference in the media anywhere, and it's just like I said back there. Someone 'told' you they received this in an email and you believed it. Either that, or you are making it up. And now your story has changed a bit, to boot. 

Here's a real reference for you. THIS article shows how a witness came forward and gave convincing evidence that a large sum of money WAS found buried behind Kenny Christiansen's house after the hijacking. Gives the witness' name, has pictures. An unsupported series of quotes provided by you, non-credited, adds up to a zero. In addition, you claimed that I could find that statement by Cossey on Google. 

Really? How could I do that if it was an email or a PM to you in the first place? Obviously, it ISN'T on Google, although you claimed it was in several posts now. 

Sorry, Dave...but I didn't just fall off the apple cart last Tuesday. Simply put, I don't believe Cossey actually stated the size of the chute, and the type, that was found in Amboy. First you said it was on Google. Now it sounds like an email message at best. This is why you couldn't provide the Google reference you challenged me to find. 

Because it was never there. 

Sure. 'Google is amazing,' as you told me. But I have better things to do than you sending me on wild goose chases there, when you knew there was no statement by Cossey there in the first place. For example, I have a Cooper Campout to plan for June, and that takes up much of my time. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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9 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

That's your opinion. an email, lol, no, it's not anything from an email. it's actual a typed out article. here we go again with those bad predictions. you are 100% wrong. 

Google is a very simple search engine..just try it, you might like it :)

Your reference is unsupported, and my points are valid. Those are not opinions. Those are facts. An 'actual typed-out article'? That's rich. Sorry, I'm not buying it and neither will anybody else I imagine. Not without a reference. 

What article? Was it typed out on a ribbon feed typewriter or did they use a word processing program? You keep saying this and that, but somehow you haven't been able to provide a single link to such an article. Maybe we can all discuss it if you come along on the Cooper Campout in June. I don't mean to give you a hard time, but you'll have to do better than that. Pretty lame, in my opinion. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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1 minute ago, mrshutter45 said:

That's fine Robert. as usual you are wrong. you can't claim anything is a fact with nothing but assumption to go on? two times you are wrong now :)

How am I wrong? You are the one claiming all this junk without a single reference supporting it. 

Quote

'Sure I have a reference. it's not a myth.'

Really? WHERE is this reference? 

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Just now, mrshutter45 said:

Have you tried to look it up? it's easily found. 

No, I would rather wait for the person making such claims about statements by Cossey regarding the Amboy Chute to provide his OWN link or reference to those alleged statements. 

That would be YOU. 

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17 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

I have to leave. I'm behind now explaining that a simple Google search will allow you to finally get some rest. I'll check back when I return from work today to see if any forward motion was made..

It's amazing to me that you can find the time to make a dozen posts claiming something in the Cooper case that goes against all the media sources, i.e. that Earl Cossey volunteered a size and type on the Amboy Chute, and all along the way you can't even provide a single reference to your alleged 'typed article' on it. 

And then simply point people to Google for verification on this baloney, and then imply people don't know what Google is, or how to use it? Do you realize how absolutely arrogant that is on your part? 

I am done discussing this issue. If you can't provide a single reference online to your claim, then it's my choice not to believe it. By 'single online reference,' I mean something official, not something from a blog that can't be verified, or an unsupported claim by a known person in Cooperland. At least when I make claims, or present evidence in the case, I will provide a reference using names, pictures, etc when asked, if I can. 

For example, when you claimed there was no movie in the works on the Cooper case, and I showed you the still shots from the promo reel. They still haven't started shooting the picture yet, but I did present the best I could, as allowed by the confidentiality agreement we signed.  The promo reel itself gets shown every time we do another Cooper Campout. Two minutes of hot stuff, and I'm usually dumb enough to trust the people attending and tell them the rest of what's actually going on down in Hollywood on this movie. None of them have blabbed yet. Maybe you should come to Eugene this June and see what I mean. B|

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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3 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

It's also amazing that you fail to even try and verify the article...yes, it's best left alone. it's right there for the taking. a reference was given in a quote. 

It's going on 4:30 am your time. do you work? 

What article? You never provided a reference, otherwise it would have blue lettering. It's a Google thing. B|

Yes, I work. But I took the week off. I'm partially retired these days. And I'm watching the Gettysburg DVD on the side. Great movie. 

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