DB Cooper

[georger 197]

5 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Can they still do DNA on the chords... probably touched by others but still might get something.. Cooper must have held them when he cut them.. if he cut them one at a time he likely held the chord in a loop in one hand then cut the loop with the knife..

Touch dna -  yes. 

[Eight Raleighs 12]

I had read someone state on a sub-Reddit regarding the Idaho college murders that there is "no such thing as touch DNA." (I think that is where I read it.)

This may be semantics, though.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Eight Raleighs

[georger 197]

46 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

The plant manager at TIMET who fired all these people in August 71 was named Don Cooper, fwiw.

 

Cooper said he had a 'grudge'. 'I have a grudge but not against your airlines'.  Was stress on your or airlines? Tina apparently didnt explore it further.  The unabomber, for instance, had specific complaints based on specific events in his life, but it generalised into ;'technology'  'airlines'   'railroads'  'corporate management' . . .   

Edited November 22, 2022 by georger

[Math of Insects 96]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

An interesting data point,,

Most often an alias is not entirely random but from some past reference, easier to remember.. Cooper was the right age to be in WW2 contrary to what Dr Edwards keeps saying,, So, I searched the AAD WW2 enlisted names... 

I am not suggesting that Cooper necessarily used the name from somebody he knew in WW2 but it is entirely possible he crossed paths with the name somewhere.

People have claimed "Dan Cooper" is a common name.. but is it.. 

What is interesting is using the WW2 name search as a proxy,

There are 7 "Dan Cooper" names in the WW2 AAD enlistment search.. very rare.

There are 33 "Daniel Cooper" names in the WW2 AAD enlistment search.. still rare.

There were 16 million men enlisted in WW2.. the AAD may not be 100% complete but it is an interesting data point..

"Dan Cooper" is very rare "Daniel Cooper" more common but still rare.

The US pop in 1971 was 208 million,, say half male = 104 million.

If we use the AAD as a rough proxy, in 1971 there were about 45 Dan Cooper's and 214 Daniel Cooper's in the US,, 

Could Cooper have got the alias from one of them...

 

I don’t think that’s the correct metric. There were a few fairly famous Coopers at the time, including Gary. Its reach would definitely have outperformed its frequency.

[georger 197]

1 minute ago, Eight Raleighs said:

I had read someone state on a sub-Reddit regarding the Idaho college murders that there is "no such thing as touch DNA." (I think that is where I read it.)

They would be skin cells, not nuclear dna, unless there are blood cells there. The FBI apparently has a skin cell swab from the tie which produced a multiple donor partial of some kind. They stated the kit the lab used so we know the loci that were tested for .... but the FBI wont share the information. Kaye supposedly took dna samples from the tie but that got botched/contaminated by himself. 

[Eight Raleighs 12]

It makes little sense to me that, aside from protocol regarding name redactions, for example, the FBI won't just share everything it knows at this point. I assume it is because they don't want to reveal certain investigatory techniques, generally. But they don't care about solving this case any more, so aside from how sharing might impact its processes in other cases, I am not sure what supports the need for secrecy.

[georger 197]

9 minutes ago, Eight Raleighs said:

It makes little sense to me that, aside from protocol regarding name redactions, for example, the FBI won't just share everything it knows at this point. I assume it is because they don't want to reveal certain investigatory techniques, generally. But they don't care about solving this case any more, so aside from how sharing might impact its processes in other cases, I am not sure what supports the need for secrecy.

Frankly I dont either - it may be something bureaucratic vs hiding data. The FBI does not want to be sued by somebody, for one thing. There are a billion lawyers and fanatics out there ready to pounce on anything and that costs money and time!  Eng and Carr have always stressed the issue of 'resources'. I think its true! 

Edited November 22, 2022 by georger

[FLYJACK 654]

17 minutes ago, Math of Insects said:

I don’t think that’s the correct metric. There were a few fairly famous Coopers at the time, including Gary. Its reach would definitely have outperformed its frequency.

I was only looking at Dan Cooper's or Daniel Cooper's..  not all Cooper's.

The takeaway is that it wasn't as common as I thought and Daniel was 4X more common than Dan..

If you include all Cooper's then all significance is lost..

 

[olemisscub 466]

3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

You guys have lost your objectivity,, those particles have nothing to do with the patent.. they don't even match each other. 

"They never do, the instrument is not perfect there are always error bars.  That is a match for all practical purposes. The tolerance on the instrument are generally about 1% so in reality there should not even be any decimals" - Tom Kaye.

I sent Tom what you said and that was his response. 

[FLYJACK 654]

19 minutes ago, Eight Raleighs said:

It makes little sense to me that, aside from protocol regarding name redactions, for example, the FBI won't just share everything it knows at this point. I assume it is because they don't want to reveal certain investigatory techniques, generally. But they don't care about solving this case any more, so aside from how sharing might impact its processes in other cases, I am not sure what supports the need for secrecy.

My experience with them in addition to managing to get a Cooper letter un-redacted on my own.. makes me believe the FBI does not want this case solved or publicized.

The redactions in that letter really makes no sense..

I have a Foia that has been delayed for six years..

[olemisscub 466]

3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

 

He does not have the dark Latin features and appearance..

 

Yeah, this dude is the poster child for having a light complexion. No dark features or olive skin whatsover.  

 

 

[FLYJACK 654]

1 minute ago, olemisscub said:

"They never do, the instrument is not perfect there are always error bars.  That is a match for all practical purposes. The tolerance on the instrument are generally about 1% so in reality there should not even be any decimals" - Tom Kaye.

I sent Tom what you said and that was his response. 

I am not talking about the instrument.. the patent is not what you guys claim it is.

There is no evidence that those particles are exclusive to the patent.. they are not exclusive and the patent does not show that.. you have exaggerated a general statement about 20% Antimony.. the particles with all elements actually don't match anything in the patent. 

You guys have taken a huge leap in logic...

There is no evidence that those particles have anything to do with that patent or any patent. 

[Eight Raleighs 12]

I try not to get too much into the "profiling" part of this - the science is the science. But it is difficult to believe that a successful scientist would risk his freedom, not to mention life and limb, to skyjack a passenger jet.

You can appreciate why it is difficult for some to wrap their heads around.

[FLYJACK 654]

9 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Yeah, this dude is the poster child for having a light complexion. No dark features or olive skin whatsover.  

 

 

No, not latin characteristics and not dark swarthy complexion..

No witness would see that image and say DARK, SWARTHY and LATIN possibly 1/4 MEXICAN/AMERICAN INDIAN blood.

[olemisscub 466]

5 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

No, not latin characteristics and not dark swarthy complexion..

No witness would see that image and say DARK, SWARTHY and LATIN possibly 1/4 MEXICAN/AMERICAN INDIAN blood.

lol

In color footage Vordahl looks even more ethnic than your beloved bespeckled 5'9 Honduran mad man

 

[FLYJACK 654]

2 minutes ago, Eight Raleighs said:

I try not to get too much into the "profiling" part of this - the science is the science. But it is difficult to believe that a successful scientist would risk his freedom, not to mention life and limb, to skyjack a passenger jet.

You can appreciate why it is difficult for some to wrap their heads around.

I have gone through this before many times,, people get suspects and lose objectivity.. 

Now, I don't see anything indicating Vordahl was Cooper. He resembles the sketch, the Ti patent tie particle thing is a red herring and he does not fit the profile whatsoever.

So, for me they will have to bring a lot more to the table..

Whenever all the evidence for Cooper gets laid out, if ever, it will be absolutely clear to everyone.. it will be an overwhelming AHA.. not maybe this, assume that, sort of, could be,,,

Guys, you just need more.. keep digging.

[JAGdb 71]

8 minutes ago, Eight Raleighs said:

I try not to get too much into the "profiling" part of this - the science is the science. But it is difficult to believe that a successful scientist would risk his freedom, not to mention life and limb, to skyjack a passenger jet.

You can appreciate why it is difficult for some to wrap their heads around.

For me, I'm waiting to hear more details about his life and his state of affairs at the time of the hijacking.  Was he in debt ?  Was he employed ?  Was he part of that lay off ?  Divorce/marital problems ? 

[FLYJACK 654]

3 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

lol

In color footage Vordahl looks even more ethnic than your beloved bespeckled 5'9 Honduran mad man

 

Not true. I have images you clearly don't. Hahneman is half native Honduran and half German.

You are seeing things in this image that aren't there.

Edited November 22, 2022 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 466]

10 minutes ago, Eight Raleighs said:

I try not to get too much into the "profiling" part of this - the science is the science. But it is difficult to believe that a successful scientist would risk his freedom, not to mention life and limb, to skyjack a passenger jet.

You can appreciate why it is difficult for some to wrap their heads around.

We don't know how successful he was or wasn't. He lived in a 1600 square foot home from 1967 to his death in 2002. He appears to be upper middle class at the most. He didn't get rich off his patents. 93% of the SR-71 is coated in a Vordahl patent but he didn't make a dime off its success because he was a salaried employee at the time. All of his inventions were assigned to other companies. 

Vordahl also suffered from a neurological disease that would eventually kill him. Trying to make sense of him or his actions is about as difficult as trying to determine his politics when you read through his writings. 

[olemisscub 466]

1 minute ago, FLYJACK said:

Not true. I have images you clearly don't. Hahneman is half native Honduran and half German.

Yes yes, here we go again.

"I have something you don't"

"Ok then release it"

"No"

"Why Not?

"Because"

You've done this to everyone on this forum for about a decade now. 

Didn't you say some bullcrap back in the spring about having a photo that was going to rock the Cooper World? 

[olemisscub 466]

4 minutes ago, JAGdb said:

For me, I'm waiting to hear more details about his life and his state of affairs at the time of the hijacking.  Was he in debt ?  Was he employed ?  Was he part of that lay off ?  Divorce/marital problems ? 

Thankfully with the family assisting us we should be able to find some of these answers. It's always difficult when you are chasing a suspect and the family is closed off because for this to be solved I believe you simply must be able to penetrate that family wall. Our team feels very blessed that we have family cooperation. The family didn't seem too shocked at the implication. Tom is working to get a few things from the family so he can scan. 

[olemisscub 466]

7 minutes ago, JAGdb said:

Was he part of that lay off ?  

fwiw, that TIMET lab where the 450 men were laid off by Don Cooper was where Vordahl's lab was located in 1971. 

[FLYJACK 654]

1 minute ago, olemisscub said:

Yes yes, here we go again.

"I have something you don't"

"Ok then release it"

"No"

"Why Not?

"Because"

You've done this to everyone on this forum for about a decade now. 

Didn't you say some bullcrap back in the spring about having a photo that was going to rock the Cooper World? 

because we aren't discussing Hahneman, we are discussing Vordahl..

as suspects they are completely independent of each other. 

You are playing a red herring by (ignorantly) attacking another suspect.

Your suspect does not compel a witness to say dark olive latin Mexican/ American Indian features and characteristics, or homely or geeky, that is just a fact.

[northern flight path 2]

50 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

No, not latin characteristics and not dark swarthy complexion..

No witness would see that image and say DARK, SWARTHY and LATIN possibly 1/4 MEXICAN/AMERICAN INDIAN blood.

I'm 1/4 indigenous and would definitely say he could be 1/4

Although he more looks Italian, a DeNiro type

The hardest thing is getting my head around a 57 year old phd risking his life for money he doesn't need 

That said very interesting suspect can't wait to hear more on the podcast

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by northern flight path

[olemisscub 466]

Just now, FLYJACK said:

because we aren't discussing Hahneman, we are discussing Vordahl..

as suspects they are completely independent of each other. 

You are playing a red herring by (ignorantly) attacking another suspect.

Your suspect does not compel a witness to say dark olive latin Mexican/ American Indian features and characteristics, or homely or geeky, that is just a fact.

Well, you can put whatever stock you want in Bill Mitchell's memory, but he literally pointed to a picture of Vordahl and said "He does kinda look him" to a theater full of people. He also asked me to email him everything I had on Vordahl.