Sluggo_Monster 0 #1351 April 11, 2008 QuoteThe eruption of Mt. St. Helens could/would have covered up the remains forever . . . Post #1569 QuoteSeems to me, the Mt. St. Helens eruption was far enough south of the suspected landing area that the changes in the geography wouldn't have covered, or uncovered any evidence of Cooper, but I can't say that for certain. Any one know? Here's what I found. Also, Randal got less than 2 cm, so the Cooper landing zone would have gotten much less. Sluggo_Monster map_may18_ash_path.gif (21.2 KB) may18_ashmap USA.gif (18.4 KB) Post #1570 ***There has been a persistent myth that the original suspected landing zone (up near Lake Merwin) was covered with 5 – 8 feet of ash and other ejecta after the 1980 Mt. St. Helens eruption. I must confess that I bought into it without question. My first visit to the area was in 1993 and I should have realized that it wasn’t true then. Oh well! Now I’ve got my head out of the sand. Well, I guess the myth just is not true! Sluggo_Monster*** Rather than post the maps again, I included the Post# so you can pull them up. There was little or no ash-fall in the area where Cooper is believed to have jumped. That is true for the whole flight path. This is one of those “myths” that just won’t die. Sluggo_Monster Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colson 0 #1352 April 11, 2008 QuoteWhat skyjack made of the confession in subsequent years may or may not have been what he intended.Quote Ok...back to the original question, why confess at all? If he really wanted "let it die with me" why say anything at all? Attention....why else?..he was eather cooper wanting recognition, or he was just another Walter Mitty who didnt like the idea of slipping away. Eather way it worked, but in 600 years it probably wont matter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #1353 April 11, 2008 QuoteQuoteJo, Commutation is often "bought" by helping an important prosecution with evidence that only you can provide. One practical reason they commute in such circumstances is to get "snitches" out of custody ASAP to avoid having them murdered in prison. The alternative is housing them in a SHU (security housing unit) sort of a prison within a prison, where convicted cops, judges, child molesters and snitches reside. I am not saying that there is anything in common with such types. They stay in the SHU simply because the general inmate population wants to harm them or worse. 377 DOES anyone know how many times I ASKED the FBI about this. I was just told it didn't mean anything. I NEVER thought to share this with the forum or anyone else outside of the FBI - active and inactive. There was a man who contacted me and told me Duane WAS taken OUT of PRISON by the FBI - this was unbelievable to me. He got upset because I didn't believe him - he took pictures he sent to me of apts where Duane lived with the wife when he was training for his "assignment". Duane was taken out of the prison - I just didn't believe it - it seemed too unreal. I couldn't make the time lines work. In other words the story just didn't not seem believable. The one thing that did make me think he was telling the truth was the fact that he put Duane in specific location ---I told him that Duane was in Prison at that time. We argued back and forth about this. I spoke to the Wife of the time and asked her about this location - she said it was only for a couple of months while they were on the run from the FBI - but her accounting of the time was about 6 months off of his. I felt that age and time had run time together for all of us. Might explain why a man threaten me when I contacted him about Duane. This man knew Duane as John Collins. I told him what Duane had said in the hospital and that since he had known him from the past he might be able to help me. He got real upset and told me that "John knew people in high places and If I wanted to be around to play with my grand kids that I needed to destroy everything and never look back." All I did was ask him how he knew Duane and what Duane had told me in the hospital...this was before I went public and when I first started trying to figure out what this was all about in 1996 after my learning who Dan Coooper was. It was strange that this man got very upset and nervous about my inquiry in to Duane's past and the fact that he knew Duane as John. It explains why Duane suddenly left Atlanta and went to S.C. when an agent from Mn transferred to the company he was working for. Maybe Duane was afraid because this man would have known him as John Collins. One of Duane's co-workers told me about this.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #1354 April 11, 2008 Quote....why else?..he was eather cooper wanting recognition, or he was just another Walter Mitty who didnt like the idea of slipping away. I think that you're leaving out a least one, if not two, other possibilities. QuoteEather way it worked, but in 600 years it probably wont matter. True.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites maurico 0 #1355 April 11, 2008 Hey safe, I think you are confusing me with an earlier poster as I have no view on the money going through the dredge intact. However your posts and those of several others are clearly based on careful investigation of the facts or rational deductions given likely scenarios. What this thread could use is a compilation of all the useful information into an outline of the case so far. Where there are multiple possibilities we could examine a) the evidence for each b) if no evidence is available whether or not conclusive evidence could be obtained. If not, I think we can dismiss this line of enquiry. [Maybe Sluggo is interested in this, or does this already exist on your yahoo discussion group?] I will post later on several scenarios that I think can be ruled out later (still haven't tidied it up yet). Cheerio thenQuote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Colson 0 #1356 April 11, 2008 I guess what Im saying is the first two possibilites wouldnt suprise me, specifically the second one. The only reason this case has stood the test of time is nobody knows. It is impressive how many people "know" and want him to have made it and even want to make humor out of it, (remember "pursuit of DB cooper"?) The idea that he bounced or otherwise died on the mountain does not fly well. "they never found a parachute".... They should try going after a freebag in the bush after even watching it land let alone looking for a white C9 somewhere between portland and seatac. The theories are amazing, everything from using some bent coat hangars to pick up a VOR for the jump, to coordinating with people on the ground...calm and collected. In actuality it looks like a improvised clusterf**k Austin Millbarge/Emmett Fitz-Hume type of operation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #1357 April 11, 2008 Quote QuoteThe other angles include for example that Duane Weber was in prison under one of his Collins aliases at the time of the hijacking. Not true? I don't know. I'm sure it will be vehemently denied on this particular forum, just as it is given as fact on another. Someone before implied this and I will STATE ONE more time. The last time Duane was incarcerated was FROM April of 1966 and his sentence was COMMUTED on MARCH 1968. THIS WAS HIS LAST INCARCERATION. I have written documentation and tapes - NO ONE knows where Duane was from Nov 1971 til Feb of 1972. Quotewhy Ckret keeps on getting frustrated here - he keeps on being "expected" or in fact ordered in some instances to go on major investigations on the sniff of a suspicious oilrag. No one has provided me with any solid evidence that Duane was NOT Cooper. NOT one. I am asked if I have looked at the possibility that Duane was NOT Cooper - that I am not being objective. You missed the point on both those issues, Jo. The first point was that people state things as ABSOLUTE FACT on the internet - like you just did. All they are, until people provide proof, is just that - statements on the internet. Don't take this personally, but why should someone believe person A over person B if all you have are 2 contradictory statements?? (By the way you have stated that no-one knows where Duane was from Nov 71 to Feb 72, this means that you actually can not prove he was not in jail, especially under an alias, if you can't show where he was....) As for the 2nd point, everyone in America except Cooper was not Cooper. To take your argument to the extreme, why shouldn't anyone suddenly start demanding that the FBI prove anyone else wasn't? This is absolutely NOT the FBI's job. Like I said before - you need a private detective to get the answers you want. No-one has provided you with any solid evidence Duane was not Cooper; you have not provided anyone with any "solid evidence" that he was. Stalemate.Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Albert18 0 #1358 April 11, 2008 Quote ...The idea that he bounced or otherwise died on the mountain does not fly well. ... I think it is quite basic, unless there is proof otherwise, you assume he lived. The last time Cooper was seen alive he was tying the bag of money to himself. That sounds about as easy to do as tying a pig to yourself. So the fact some of the money was found is a very weak argument that he died. What else is there to suggest he died? The fact he has never turned himself in? I have studied a lot of famous cases and they always have a lot of clutter and amazing peripheral happenings that aren't relevant. But if you study long enough you find a main channel of information. This case seems different and odd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Colson 0 #1359 April 11, 2008 QuoteI think it is quite basic, unless there is proof otherwise, you assume he lived. Agreed, in 1971. But 30+ years later with still nothing solid turning up..... QuoteWhat else is there to suggest he died? The fact he has never turned himself in? Or maybe because he stepped off the back of a 727 doing 120+knots into a rainstorm, in overcast, over mountains, wearing a business suit, with little to no training, etc..... QuoteThe last time Cooper was seen alive he was tying the bag of money to himself. That sounds about as easy to do as tying a pig to yourself. So the fact some of the money was found is a very weak argument that he died. Which is why I cant understand why most of the theories depict him as determined, methodical, skillful. They should go more like: He had no idea where he was, but jumped anyway, as he hit the airstream he flailed around and immediately lost the breifcase, and due to lack of goggles was unable to see well because of the rain/wind hammering his face. Now tumbling about with a bag loosely tied to him that is now flipping around beating the hell out of him he thinks "where was that ripcord again?" If it doesnt end there then he yanks the ripcord, and right after the tremendous opening shock of a flat circular watches his money bag fall away from him. He eather lands and is injured, thus dies (broken ankle in mountains=bad), or in a stroke of luck somehow lives, but that isnt likely. I remember something in the 90's on tv where they had a stuntman jump with a bag and try to fall stable, then they dropped him in a pool with a rig off the high dive, etc all to simulate possible cooper outcomes, or to depict the actual seriousness of what Cooper was trying to do. I cant remember for sure but I think they said something like "possible but not likely." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Albert18 0 #1360 April 11, 2008 Cooper committed a crime that activated the Air Force, the National Guard, the FBI, the FAA, and all sorts of state and local law enforcement. To start the crime he handed over a note. This note in effect told the authorities where he would commit the crime and what crime he was going to commit. The crime then slowly occured over many hours. Law enforcement knew where Cooper was at all times during the crime. Cooper committed the crime with no disguise and wearing a business suit. He started the crime in Portland and ended the crime just north of Portland. He apparently picked a very clever name for his alias. Even though basically blind to everything going on, he sat calmly on the plane while it was parked in Seattle. So calm he even spent time in the bathroom. And the crew said he was going to be in there for a while so he must have even told them he would be in the bathroom for a while. I'm sorry, but I need to see a body. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Albert18 0 #1361 April 11, 2008 Let's review something I posted. The aircrew told ops that Cooper was in the bathroom and would be there for a while. This is while the airplane is parked on the ground waiting for the fuel truck. The only way the aircrew would know that Cooper would be in the bathroom for a while is if Cooper told them he was going to be in there for a while before he went into the bathroom. Cooper was hijacking the airplane using a bomb. The way you control people with a bomb is to have at least one of them next to you. Cooper was alone in the can. You can't see out of the can. He told them he would be in there for a while. Here is a question I would have for Himmelsbach. Did he have somebody hold the bomb for him while he was in the bathroom? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 20 #1362 April 11, 2008 I wonder if Cooper flushed some evidence? Wonder if the FBI skipped that line of investigation, perhaps intentionally?2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Colson 0 #1363 April 11, 2008 QuoteI'm sorry, but I need to see a body. You dont always need a body to solve a case...I just wonder why everybody tends to gravitate to the idea that he survived. QuoteAnd the crew said he was going to be in there for a while so he must have even told them he would be in the bathroom for a while. You assume he told them? The problem with this case is there are too many guesses that became facts, people approach the case generating theories and not gathering facts. Even know facts arent solid. Quotenote: That the 1973 return shows the purchase of 2 new cars - yet he had purchased new cars in early 1972 with virtually NO income from 1971. The 1972 purchase may have been an enticement to get his wife back. There ware NO loans on the 1972 vehicles purchases. Maybe he was paid under the table then, that would explain the lack of job history then. Or maybe he saved hundreds by switching his auto insurance to Geico.... Everything can go more then one way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Albert18 0 #1364 April 12, 2008 You have to use reason in looking at a case. Cooper wasn't on the airplane when it landed but no one saw him jump and there isn't a video of him jumping but I think it is reasonable to assume he jumped. The communication log shows the aircrew telling ops that Cooper was in the lav and would be there a while. How would they know he would be there a while? I think you have two choices, Cooper must have given someone that info or the aircrew locked him in the lav and were joking about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SafecrackingPLF 0 #1365 April 12, 2008 I took the day off, will get back to everyone tomorrow. Reading through quickly: Mt St Helens is North and East of the landing area. The blast was on the North side of the mountain and the SW winds blew the ash AWAY from the landing area (Clark County). Second, from my understanding, when Weber said "Oh F###! Let it die with me!" was after he tried to confess and it was obvious she had no freaking clue what he was talking about. Why say anything? He tried and then gave up. Then the nurses came in and he was drugged up for the remainder of his life. A few days later, with others in the room, he began mumbling about burying 173 or 178 thousand in a bucket. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Albert18 0 #1366 April 12, 2008 Quote Second, from my understanding, when Weber said "Oh F###! Let it die with me!" was after he tried to confess and it was obvious she had no freaking clue what he was talking about. But every Tom, Dick, and Harry could go to the FBI with this story. Seriously. How hard is it to confess to a crime? Why wouldn't he confess to the crime instead of confessing to being Dan Cooper? Wouldn't he see himself as the guy who hijacked a 727 and got away with it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites n467us 0 #1367 April 12, 2008 I agree that deathbed confessions are often flawed. Here is another way to put this into perspective. If Duane Weber wanted his wife to "think" he was DB Cooper, for the Walter Mitty ("I'm somebody famous") aspect, I believe he would have sprung this on her during the marriage, and gotten some mileage out of it. INSTEAD, he actually did wait until on his deathbed and had nothing to gain by doing so. Everyone, including the FBI, is entitled to their opinion on this and I agree that hard evidence is always the preferred media in making determinations of guilt. Sometimes, however, we need to think this through from just a "common sense" standpoint... and in doing so I do not find any other yet identified suspect that has the circumstantial evidence pointing to him as much as Duane Weber does. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ckret 0 #1368 April 12, 2008 Here is the problem with all of the folks that have been forwarded as Db Cooper, no evidence, none, not a piece and to top it off their dead (exception of Mayfield). I don't mean to call anyone out, but give me just one document that directly supports just one claim made. So much has been brought forward, surely there exists just one small piece of paper that can support any part of a claim. i am not asking for proof that someone is or is not cooper, just one piece of paper that can support just one small aspect of a persons story. Is that too much to ask for? you can go on and on and on (I'll put the little dots in so I don't have to keep writing on and on)...... But until you provide something that can support your claim it's just an interesting story. The New York Times best seller list is full of examples of interesting stories, its called fiction. So, for those of you putting forward a person of interest and you are asserting it as a matter of fact, then "show me the facts" I can't hear you!!! say it louder "show me the facts!!!!" louder, I still can't hear you, "SHOW ME THE FACTS!!!!!" Now dance when you say it, "SHOW ME THE FACTS!!!!" Thats better, now we have something to talk about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #1369 April 12, 2008 Quote I'm sorry, but I need to see a body. So do you believe Steve Fosset is still alive too?Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SafecrackingPLF 0 #1370 April 12, 2008 QuoteBut every Tom, Dick, and Harry could go to the FBI with this story. Absolutely correct. If he wanted to lie on his deathbed, then he could have. That's for people to figure out on their own if they believe it or not. I'm fairly sure skyjack is not making up the confession because there was a witness to his comments about the money in a bucket. Now, any Tom, Dick, and Harry can claim they are Cooper. Not any Tom, Dick, and Harry can be the top biometric match to the sketch out of a database of people. The odds: 1 in 3,000 When you inspect any Tom, Dick, and Harry's tax returns or financial dealings in the 12 months following the crime, not any Tom, Dick, and Harry had a minimum of $17,000 cash lying around to spend on cars and houses. Not any Tom, Dick, and Harry was indentified by a hotel concierge following the crime both in photo and by name. When you look at the story behind any Tom, Dick, and Harry and how they say the money wound up where it did, and then you reverse engineer what else had to hold true, Tom, Dick, and Harry have been wrong every single time. In fact, I will say it again... NOT one suspect and their alledged explaination of the money is adequate, OTHER THAN Weber's. Did Tom, Dick, and Harry figure out back in the 70s and 80s everything posted on this board regarding creeks, rivers, streams, sand strata, condition of bills, location of the plane, timeline of the jump??? Let's take a look. Keep in mind, this is how things stand right now (we could very well get compelling evidence soon that challenges the landing area) McCoy: theory is he "lost the money" Fact: Cooper could not have lost the money unless someone else found it and then threw it away Mayfield: theory is he "buried the money" when he landed Fact: landing sight was 12 miles away; money was deposited in 1979, not 1971 Cook's unnamed suspect: theory is he put some stacks of cash in his pocket and the cash came out when he jumped Fact: Cooper did not even place money in his pocket (as per Ckret) and even if he did, the jump was 12 miles away, bills were found together, and they were deposited in 1979 with rubberbands still intact. Weber: theory is he came back to Vancouver in late fall of 1979; went to the river and also went digging at some point (came back with dirt all over himself), 4 or 5 months later, ransom was found. Fact: Money was deposited in 1979; an out of state Cooper fits the general theory of a surviving Cooper leaving money behind; a returning Cooper finding money in 79 would explain why it was discarded (ruined); being up the river digging the ransom up would potentially explain how money was deposited in 1979 if he threw the bucket into the water and let it float away. Like I said, you're right, any Tom, Dick, and Harry can make up a story... but there are some things here that cannot be made up, or are improbable to make up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #1371 April 12, 2008 QuoteIf Duane Weber wanted his wife to "think" he was DB Cooper, for the Walter Mitty ("I'm somebody famous") aspect, I believe he would have sprung this on her during the marriage, and gotten some mileage out of it. INSTEAD, he actually did wait until on his deathbed and had nothing to gain by doing so. Your last sentence is incorrect, he did have something to gain, a certain form of immortality. There are a few way to become (sort of) immortal. Among them; you can pass down a part of your DNA, you can write something that will stand the test of time or, you can have something written about you. I don't think we've ever determined that he did either of the first two (correct me if I'm wrong), but . . . the death bed confession could serve a number of purposes. 1) He really did it and would then go down in history as the only guy to ever "beat" the system. 2) He didn't do it and would go down in history for pulling off this one last great con job by making people THINK he did. 3) He didn't do it and would go down in history for NOT pulling off this one last great con. (How's THAT for a win/win?) The death bed confession costs nothing. It comes with ZERO negative consequences to him, yet does have a certain potential to create a legacy of sorts; good or bad, either way doesn't matter. Of course, there's at least a few other possibilities here as well, none of which actually moves the case forward in any meaningful way; it's all just side show. People do some weird stuff sometimes when they're looking to make one lasting mark in the world. Quote Sometimes, however, we need to think this through from just a "common sense" standpoint... and in doing so I do not find any other yet identified suspect that has the circumstantial evidence pointing to him as much as Duane Weber does. However, it's all circumstantial . . . absolutely nothing whatsoever in terms of actual evidence he was even near an airplane on that date.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SafecrackingPLF 0 #1372 April 12, 2008 My understanding is that the hotel concierge gave a statement the Portland FBI within days after the crime. My understanding is also that he was in the USA last month and was willing to reiterate his statement, but nothing ever came of it. Skyjack should be able to scan in some of those tax returns for you... that would be a piece of paper that shows he had $17k lying around right after the crime. It's not a piece of paper, but two weeks ago, a re-run of unsolved history aired, 1:3000 odds there with the FRS match. Anne Faass is formally on record as a witness to Weber's rambling about buring 178k in a bucket. This was reported by Doug Pasternak of US News and World Report (not exactly the national enquirer), he now works for Homeland Security... he'd probably take a call from an FBI agent. Link here Just to clear this up, I'm not putting forward any candidate, it could be him or not be him... I'm just writing what has been stated previously. I would do the same for Christiansen, Mayfield, or anyone else if there was more information on these guys (skyjack is actually here to talk and answer questions). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SafecrackingPLF 0 #1373 April 12, 2008 Quotehe was even near an airplane on that date Correct. There is a witness, still alive, who places him just down the street from PDX the night before the crime. According to the witness, the suspicious man requested a late check out and demanded that no one disturb him until after 12pm on Nov 24th (he wanted to sleep late). According to the witness, the man was upset when the hotel concierge joked about his name sounding like the drink, Tom Collins. Alledgedly, the suspicious man said "well, my name isn't Tom, it's John". The hotel clerk saw a picture of weber several years ago, showed his wife, and then called the newspaper and skyjack71 to say "that's the strange guy I remember"... Weber's primary alias was John Collins. Fairly sure there's at least one witness who places him at PDX the night before/day of the crime. That's at least a mile or so from a plane... so I suppose it's a matter of perspective if he was anywhere "near an airplane on that date". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #1374 April 12, 2008 QuoteIt's not a piece of paper, but two weeks ago, a re-run of unsolved history aired, 1:3000 odds there with the FRS match. Ok, you keep bringing that up as if it had any significance. The software wasn't designed to match faces with sketches; ever. They even say so in the program. Now, if you have a photo of DB Cooper and a photo of Weber, THEN I'd consider the results as being "interesting", but matching photos to a sketch in a television program that is from the outset highly biased in what result they wanted to get? I'm just not buying it. The producers of the television show had an obvious bias toward Weber being their "prime" suspect.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SafecrackingPLF 0 #1375 April 12, 2008 Quoteif you have a photo of DB Cooper and a photo of Weber, THEN I'd consider the results as being "interesting" Fair enough. Obviously if anyone ever had a picture of Cooper, the case would be solved. The FRS result is significant for one simple fact... the probability... It's not proof, never said it was proof, only that it's improbable that a guy who confessed would also beat out an entire database in an FRS comparison to the sketch. Does it mean the sketch was 100% spot on? Nope. In fact, Weber's match to the sketch was only the top choice, it was not an exact match... the odds of such an occurance are still 1 in 3,000. Call me stubborn, but in my line of work, 1 in 3,000 is significant. Not proof, but not "ah, any Tom, Dick, and Harry could do that"... nope. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 Next Page 55 of 2540 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 47 47 Go To Topic Listing
skyjack71 0 #1353 April 11, 2008 QuoteQuoteJo, Commutation is often "bought" by helping an important prosecution with evidence that only you can provide. One practical reason they commute in such circumstances is to get "snitches" out of custody ASAP to avoid having them murdered in prison. The alternative is housing them in a SHU (security housing unit) sort of a prison within a prison, where convicted cops, judges, child molesters and snitches reside. I am not saying that there is anything in common with such types. They stay in the SHU simply because the general inmate population wants to harm them or worse. 377 DOES anyone know how many times I ASKED the FBI about this. I was just told it didn't mean anything. I NEVER thought to share this with the forum or anyone else outside of the FBI - active and inactive. There was a man who contacted me and told me Duane WAS taken OUT of PRISON by the FBI - this was unbelievable to me. He got upset because I didn't believe him - he took pictures he sent to me of apts where Duane lived with the wife when he was training for his "assignment". Duane was taken out of the prison - I just didn't believe it - it seemed too unreal. I couldn't make the time lines work. In other words the story just didn't not seem believable. The one thing that did make me think he was telling the truth was the fact that he put Duane in specific location ---I told him that Duane was in Prison at that time. We argued back and forth about this. I spoke to the Wife of the time and asked her about this location - she said it was only for a couple of months while they were on the run from the FBI - but her accounting of the time was about 6 months off of his. I felt that age and time had run time together for all of us. Might explain why a man threaten me when I contacted him about Duane. This man knew Duane as John Collins. I told him what Duane had said in the hospital and that since he had known him from the past he might be able to help me. He got real upset and told me that "John knew people in high places and If I wanted to be around to play with my grand kids that I needed to destroy everything and never look back." All I did was ask him how he knew Duane and what Duane had told me in the hospital...this was before I went public and when I first started trying to figure out what this was all about in 1996 after my learning who Dan Coooper was. It was strange that this man got very upset and nervous about my inquiry in to Duane's past and the fact that he knew Duane as John. It explains why Duane suddenly left Atlanta and went to S.C. when an agent from Mn transferred to the company he was working for. Maybe Duane was afraid because this man would have known him as John Collins. One of Duane's co-workers told me about this.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #1354 April 11, 2008 Quote....why else?..he was eather cooper wanting recognition, or he was just another Walter Mitty who didnt like the idea of slipping away. I think that you're leaving out a least one, if not two, other possibilities. QuoteEather way it worked, but in 600 years it probably wont matter. True.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maurico 0 #1355 April 11, 2008 Hey safe, I think you are confusing me with an earlier poster as I have no view on the money going through the dredge intact. However your posts and those of several others are clearly based on careful investigation of the facts or rational deductions given likely scenarios. What this thread could use is a compilation of all the useful information into an outline of the case so far. Where there are multiple possibilities we could examine a) the evidence for each b) if no evidence is available whether or not conclusive evidence could be obtained. If not, I think we can dismiss this line of enquiry. [Maybe Sluggo is interested in this, or does this already exist on your yahoo discussion group?] I will post later on several scenarios that I think can be ruled out later (still haven't tidied it up yet). Cheerio thenQuote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Colson 0 #1356 April 11, 2008 I guess what Im saying is the first two possibilites wouldnt suprise me, specifically the second one. The only reason this case has stood the test of time is nobody knows. It is impressive how many people "know" and want him to have made it and even want to make humor out of it, (remember "pursuit of DB cooper"?) The idea that he bounced or otherwise died on the mountain does not fly well. "they never found a parachute".... They should try going after a freebag in the bush after even watching it land let alone looking for a white C9 somewhere between portland and seatac. The theories are amazing, everything from using some bent coat hangars to pick up a VOR for the jump, to coordinating with people on the ground...calm and collected. In actuality it looks like a improvised clusterf**k Austin Millbarge/Emmett Fitz-Hume type of operation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #1357 April 11, 2008 Quote QuoteThe other angles include for example that Duane Weber was in prison under one of his Collins aliases at the time of the hijacking. Not true? I don't know. I'm sure it will be vehemently denied on this particular forum, just as it is given as fact on another. Someone before implied this and I will STATE ONE more time. The last time Duane was incarcerated was FROM April of 1966 and his sentence was COMMUTED on MARCH 1968. THIS WAS HIS LAST INCARCERATION. I have written documentation and tapes - NO ONE knows where Duane was from Nov 1971 til Feb of 1972. Quotewhy Ckret keeps on getting frustrated here - he keeps on being "expected" or in fact ordered in some instances to go on major investigations on the sniff of a suspicious oilrag. No one has provided me with any solid evidence that Duane was NOT Cooper. NOT one. I am asked if I have looked at the possibility that Duane was NOT Cooper - that I am not being objective. You missed the point on both those issues, Jo. The first point was that people state things as ABSOLUTE FACT on the internet - like you just did. All they are, until people provide proof, is just that - statements on the internet. Don't take this personally, but why should someone believe person A over person B if all you have are 2 contradictory statements?? (By the way you have stated that no-one knows where Duane was from Nov 71 to Feb 72, this means that you actually can not prove he was not in jail, especially under an alias, if you can't show where he was....) As for the 2nd point, everyone in America except Cooper was not Cooper. To take your argument to the extreme, why shouldn't anyone suddenly start demanding that the FBI prove anyone else wasn't? This is absolutely NOT the FBI's job. Like I said before - you need a private detective to get the answers you want. No-one has provided you with any solid evidence Duane was not Cooper; you have not provided anyone with any "solid evidence" that he was. Stalemate.Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Albert18 0 #1358 April 11, 2008 Quote ...The idea that he bounced or otherwise died on the mountain does not fly well. ... I think it is quite basic, unless there is proof otherwise, you assume he lived. The last time Cooper was seen alive he was tying the bag of money to himself. That sounds about as easy to do as tying a pig to yourself. So the fact some of the money was found is a very weak argument that he died. What else is there to suggest he died? The fact he has never turned himself in? I have studied a lot of famous cases and they always have a lot of clutter and amazing peripheral happenings that aren't relevant. But if you study long enough you find a main channel of information. This case seems different and odd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Colson 0 #1359 April 11, 2008 QuoteI think it is quite basic, unless there is proof otherwise, you assume he lived. Agreed, in 1971. But 30+ years later with still nothing solid turning up..... QuoteWhat else is there to suggest he died? The fact he has never turned himself in? Or maybe because he stepped off the back of a 727 doing 120+knots into a rainstorm, in overcast, over mountains, wearing a business suit, with little to no training, etc..... QuoteThe last time Cooper was seen alive he was tying the bag of money to himself. That sounds about as easy to do as tying a pig to yourself. So the fact some of the money was found is a very weak argument that he died. Which is why I cant understand why most of the theories depict him as determined, methodical, skillful. They should go more like: He had no idea where he was, but jumped anyway, as he hit the airstream he flailed around and immediately lost the breifcase, and due to lack of goggles was unable to see well because of the rain/wind hammering his face. Now tumbling about with a bag loosely tied to him that is now flipping around beating the hell out of him he thinks "where was that ripcord again?" If it doesnt end there then he yanks the ripcord, and right after the tremendous opening shock of a flat circular watches his money bag fall away from him. He eather lands and is injured, thus dies (broken ankle in mountains=bad), or in a stroke of luck somehow lives, but that isnt likely. I remember something in the 90's on tv where they had a stuntman jump with a bag and try to fall stable, then they dropped him in a pool with a rig off the high dive, etc all to simulate possible cooper outcomes, or to depict the actual seriousness of what Cooper was trying to do. I cant remember for sure but I think they said something like "possible but not likely." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Albert18 0 #1360 April 11, 2008 Cooper committed a crime that activated the Air Force, the National Guard, the FBI, the FAA, and all sorts of state and local law enforcement. To start the crime he handed over a note. This note in effect told the authorities where he would commit the crime and what crime he was going to commit. The crime then slowly occured over many hours. Law enforcement knew where Cooper was at all times during the crime. Cooper committed the crime with no disguise and wearing a business suit. He started the crime in Portland and ended the crime just north of Portland. He apparently picked a very clever name for his alias. Even though basically blind to everything going on, he sat calmly on the plane while it was parked in Seattle. So calm he even spent time in the bathroom. And the crew said he was going to be in there for a while so he must have even told them he would be in the bathroom for a while. I'm sorry, but I need to see a body. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Albert18 0 #1361 April 11, 2008 Let's review something I posted. The aircrew told ops that Cooper was in the bathroom and would be there for a while. This is while the airplane is parked on the ground waiting for the fuel truck. The only way the aircrew would know that Cooper would be in the bathroom for a while is if Cooper told them he was going to be in there for a while before he went into the bathroom. Cooper was hijacking the airplane using a bomb. The way you control people with a bomb is to have at least one of them next to you. Cooper was alone in the can. You can't see out of the can. He told them he would be in there for a while. Here is a question I would have for Himmelsbach. Did he have somebody hold the bomb for him while he was in the bathroom? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 20 #1362 April 11, 2008 I wonder if Cooper flushed some evidence? Wonder if the FBI skipped that line of investigation, perhaps intentionally?2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Colson 0 #1363 April 11, 2008 QuoteI'm sorry, but I need to see a body. You dont always need a body to solve a case...I just wonder why everybody tends to gravitate to the idea that he survived. QuoteAnd the crew said he was going to be in there for a while so he must have even told them he would be in the bathroom for a while. You assume he told them? The problem with this case is there are too many guesses that became facts, people approach the case generating theories and not gathering facts. Even know facts arent solid. Quotenote: That the 1973 return shows the purchase of 2 new cars - yet he had purchased new cars in early 1972 with virtually NO income from 1971. The 1972 purchase may have been an enticement to get his wife back. There ware NO loans on the 1972 vehicles purchases. Maybe he was paid under the table then, that would explain the lack of job history then. Or maybe he saved hundreds by switching his auto insurance to Geico.... Everything can go more then one way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Albert18 0 #1364 April 12, 2008 You have to use reason in looking at a case. Cooper wasn't on the airplane when it landed but no one saw him jump and there isn't a video of him jumping but I think it is reasonable to assume he jumped. The communication log shows the aircrew telling ops that Cooper was in the lav and would be there a while. How would they know he would be there a while? I think you have two choices, Cooper must have given someone that info or the aircrew locked him in the lav and were joking about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SafecrackingPLF 0 #1365 April 12, 2008 I took the day off, will get back to everyone tomorrow. Reading through quickly: Mt St Helens is North and East of the landing area. The blast was on the North side of the mountain and the SW winds blew the ash AWAY from the landing area (Clark County). Second, from my understanding, when Weber said "Oh F###! Let it die with me!" was after he tried to confess and it was obvious she had no freaking clue what he was talking about. Why say anything? He tried and then gave up. Then the nurses came in and he was drugged up for the remainder of his life. A few days later, with others in the room, he began mumbling about burying 173 or 178 thousand in a bucket. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Albert18 0 #1366 April 12, 2008 Quote Second, from my understanding, when Weber said "Oh F###! Let it die with me!" was after he tried to confess and it was obvious she had no freaking clue what he was talking about. But every Tom, Dick, and Harry could go to the FBI with this story. Seriously. How hard is it to confess to a crime? Why wouldn't he confess to the crime instead of confessing to being Dan Cooper? Wouldn't he see himself as the guy who hijacked a 727 and got away with it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites n467us 0 #1367 April 12, 2008 I agree that deathbed confessions are often flawed. Here is another way to put this into perspective. If Duane Weber wanted his wife to "think" he was DB Cooper, for the Walter Mitty ("I'm somebody famous") aspect, I believe he would have sprung this on her during the marriage, and gotten some mileage out of it. INSTEAD, he actually did wait until on his deathbed and had nothing to gain by doing so. Everyone, including the FBI, is entitled to their opinion on this and I agree that hard evidence is always the preferred media in making determinations of guilt. Sometimes, however, we need to think this through from just a "common sense" standpoint... and in doing so I do not find any other yet identified suspect that has the circumstantial evidence pointing to him as much as Duane Weber does. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ckret 0 #1368 April 12, 2008 Here is the problem with all of the folks that have been forwarded as Db Cooper, no evidence, none, not a piece and to top it off their dead (exception of Mayfield). I don't mean to call anyone out, but give me just one document that directly supports just one claim made. So much has been brought forward, surely there exists just one small piece of paper that can support any part of a claim. i am not asking for proof that someone is or is not cooper, just one piece of paper that can support just one small aspect of a persons story. Is that too much to ask for? you can go on and on and on (I'll put the little dots in so I don't have to keep writing on and on)...... But until you provide something that can support your claim it's just an interesting story. The New York Times best seller list is full of examples of interesting stories, its called fiction. So, for those of you putting forward a person of interest and you are asserting it as a matter of fact, then "show me the facts" I can't hear you!!! say it louder "show me the facts!!!!" louder, I still can't hear you, "SHOW ME THE FACTS!!!!!" Now dance when you say it, "SHOW ME THE FACTS!!!!" Thats better, now we have something to talk about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #1369 April 12, 2008 Quote I'm sorry, but I need to see a body. So do you believe Steve Fosset is still alive too?Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SafecrackingPLF 0 #1370 April 12, 2008 QuoteBut every Tom, Dick, and Harry could go to the FBI with this story. Absolutely correct. If he wanted to lie on his deathbed, then he could have. That's for people to figure out on their own if they believe it or not. I'm fairly sure skyjack is not making up the confession because there was a witness to his comments about the money in a bucket. Now, any Tom, Dick, and Harry can claim they are Cooper. Not any Tom, Dick, and Harry can be the top biometric match to the sketch out of a database of people. The odds: 1 in 3,000 When you inspect any Tom, Dick, and Harry's tax returns or financial dealings in the 12 months following the crime, not any Tom, Dick, and Harry had a minimum of $17,000 cash lying around to spend on cars and houses. Not any Tom, Dick, and Harry was indentified by a hotel concierge following the crime both in photo and by name. When you look at the story behind any Tom, Dick, and Harry and how they say the money wound up where it did, and then you reverse engineer what else had to hold true, Tom, Dick, and Harry have been wrong every single time. In fact, I will say it again... NOT one suspect and their alledged explaination of the money is adequate, OTHER THAN Weber's. Did Tom, Dick, and Harry figure out back in the 70s and 80s everything posted on this board regarding creeks, rivers, streams, sand strata, condition of bills, location of the plane, timeline of the jump??? Let's take a look. Keep in mind, this is how things stand right now (we could very well get compelling evidence soon that challenges the landing area) McCoy: theory is he "lost the money" Fact: Cooper could not have lost the money unless someone else found it and then threw it away Mayfield: theory is he "buried the money" when he landed Fact: landing sight was 12 miles away; money was deposited in 1979, not 1971 Cook's unnamed suspect: theory is he put some stacks of cash in his pocket and the cash came out when he jumped Fact: Cooper did not even place money in his pocket (as per Ckret) and even if he did, the jump was 12 miles away, bills were found together, and they were deposited in 1979 with rubberbands still intact. Weber: theory is he came back to Vancouver in late fall of 1979; went to the river and also went digging at some point (came back with dirt all over himself), 4 or 5 months later, ransom was found. Fact: Money was deposited in 1979; an out of state Cooper fits the general theory of a surviving Cooper leaving money behind; a returning Cooper finding money in 79 would explain why it was discarded (ruined); being up the river digging the ransom up would potentially explain how money was deposited in 1979 if he threw the bucket into the water and let it float away. Like I said, you're right, any Tom, Dick, and Harry can make up a story... but there are some things here that cannot be made up, or are improbable to make up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #1371 April 12, 2008 QuoteIf Duane Weber wanted his wife to "think" he was DB Cooper, for the Walter Mitty ("I'm somebody famous") aspect, I believe he would have sprung this on her during the marriage, and gotten some mileage out of it. INSTEAD, he actually did wait until on his deathbed and had nothing to gain by doing so. Your last sentence is incorrect, he did have something to gain, a certain form of immortality. There are a few way to become (sort of) immortal. Among them; you can pass down a part of your DNA, you can write something that will stand the test of time or, you can have something written about you. I don't think we've ever determined that he did either of the first two (correct me if I'm wrong), but . . . the death bed confession could serve a number of purposes. 1) He really did it and would then go down in history as the only guy to ever "beat" the system. 2) He didn't do it and would go down in history for pulling off this one last great con job by making people THINK he did. 3) He didn't do it and would go down in history for NOT pulling off this one last great con. (How's THAT for a win/win?) The death bed confession costs nothing. It comes with ZERO negative consequences to him, yet does have a certain potential to create a legacy of sorts; good or bad, either way doesn't matter. Of course, there's at least a few other possibilities here as well, none of which actually moves the case forward in any meaningful way; it's all just side show. People do some weird stuff sometimes when they're looking to make one lasting mark in the world. Quote Sometimes, however, we need to think this through from just a "common sense" standpoint... and in doing so I do not find any other yet identified suspect that has the circumstantial evidence pointing to him as much as Duane Weber does. However, it's all circumstantial . . . absolutely nothing whatsoever in terms of actual evidence he was even near an airplane on that date.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SafecrackingPLF 0 #1372 April 12, 2008 My understanding is that the hotel concierge gave a statement the Portland FBI within days after the crime. My understanding is also that he was in the USA last month and was willing to reiterate his statement, but nothing ever came of it. Skyjack should be able to scan in some of those tax returns for you... that would be a piece of paper that shows he had $17k lying around right after the crime. It's not a piece of paper, but two weeks ago, a re-run of unsolved history aired, 1:3000 odds there with the FRS match. Anne Faass is formally on record as a witness to Weber's rambling about buring 178k in a bucket. This was reported by Doug Pasternak of US News and World Report (not exactly the national enquirer), he now works for Homeland Security... he'd probably take a call from an FBI agent. Link here Just to clear this up, I'm not putting forward any candidate, it could be him or not be him... I'm just writing what has been stated previously. I would do the same for Christiansen, Mayfield, or anyone else if there was more information on these guys (skyjack is actually here to talk and answer questions). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SafecrackingPLF 0 #1373 April 12, 2008 Quotehe was even near an airplane on that date Correct. There is a witness, still alive, who places him just down the street from PDX the night before the crime. According to the witness, the suspicious man requested a late check out and demanded that no one disturb him until after 12pm on Nov 24th (he wanted to sleep late). According to the witness, the man was upset when the hotel concierge joked about his name sounding like the drink, Tom Collins. Alledgedly, the suspicious man said "well, my name isn't Tom, it's John". The hotel clerk saw a picture of weber several years ago, showed his wife, and then called the newspaper and skyjack71 to say "that's the strange guy I remember"... Weber's primary alias was John Collins. Fairly sure there's at least one witness who places him at PDX the night before/day of the crime. That's at least a mile or so from a plane... so I suppose it's a matter of perspective if he was anywhere "near an airplane on that date". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #1374 April 12, 2008 QuoteIt's not a piece of paper, but two weeks ago, a re-run of unsolved history aired, 1:3000 odds there with the FRS match. Ok, you keep bringing that up as if it had any significance. The software wasn't designed to match faces with sketches; ever. They even say so in the program. Now, if you have a photo of DB Cooper and a photo of Weber, THEN I'd consider the results as being "interesting", but matching photos to a sketch in a television program that is from the outset highly biased in what result they wanted to get? I'm just not buying it. The producers of the television show had an obvious bias toward Weber being their "prime" suspect.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SafecrackingPLF 0 #1375 April 12, 2008 Quoteif you have a photo of DB Cooper and a photo of Weber, THEN I'd consider the results as being "interesting" Fair enough. Obviously if anyone ever had a picture of Cooper, the case would be solved. The FRS result is significant for one simple fact... the probability... It's not proof, never said it was proof, only that it's improbable that a guy who confessed would also beat out an entire database in an FRS comparison to the sketch. Does it mean the sketch was 100% spot on? Nope. In fact, Weber's match to the sketch was only the top choice, it was not an exact match... the odds of such an occurance are still 1 in 3,000. Call me stubborn, but in my line of work, 1 in 3,000 is significant. Not proof, but not "ah, any Tom, Dick, and Harry could do that"... nope. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 Next Page 55 of 2540 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 47 47
Colson 0 #1356 April 11, 2008 I guess what Im saying is the first two possibilites wouldnt suprise me, specifically the second one. The only reason this case has stood the test of time is nobody knows. It is impressive how many people "know" and want him to have made it and even want to make humor out of it, (remember "pursuit of DB cooper"?) The idea that he bounced or otherwise died on the mountain does not fly well. "they never found a parachute".... They should try going after a freebag in the bush after even watching it land let alone looking for a white C9 somewhere between portland and seatac. The theories are amazing, everything from using some bent coat hangars to pick up a VOR for the jump, to coordinating with people on the ground...calm and collected. In actuality it looks like a improvised clusterf**k Austin Millbarge/Emmett Fitz-Hume type of operation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #1357 April 11, 2008 Quote QuoteThe other angles include for example that Duane Weber was in prison under one of his Collins aliases at the time of the hijacking. Not true? I don't know. I'm sure it will be vehemently denied on this particular forum, just as it is given as fact on another. Someone before implied this and I will STATE ONE more time. The last time Duane was incarcerated was FROM April of 1966 and his sentence was COMMUTED on MARCH 1968. THIS WAS HIS LAST INCARCERATION. I have written documentation and tapes - NO ONE knows where Duane was from Nov 1971 til Feb of 1972. Quotewhy Ckret keeps on getting frustrated here - he keeps on being "expected" or in fact ordered in some instances to go on major investigations on the sniff of a suspicious oilrag. No one has provided me with any solid evidence that Duane was NOT Cooper. NOT one. I am asked if I have looked at the possibility that Duane was NOT Cooper - that I am not being objective. You missed the point on both those issues, Jo. The first point was that people state things as ABSOLUTE FACT on the internet - like you just did. All they are, until people provide proof, is just that - statements on the internet. Don't take this personally, but why should someone believe person A over person B if all you have are 2 contradictory statements?? (By the way you have stated that no-one knows where Duane was from Nov 71 to Feb 72, this means that you actually can not prove he was not in jail, especially under an alias, if you can't show where he was....) As for the 2nd point, everyone in America except Cooper was not Cooper. To take your argument to the extreme, why shouldn't anyone suddenly start demanding that the FBI prove anyone else wasn't? This is absolutely NOT the FBI's job. Like I said before - you need a private detective to get the answers you want. No-one has provided you with any solid evidence Duane was not Cooper; you have not provided anyone with any "solid evidence" that he was. Stalemate.Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albert18 0 #1358 April 11, 2008 Quote ...The idea that he bounced or otherwise died on the mountain does not fly well. ... I think it is quite basic, unless there is proof otherwise, you assume he lived. The last time Cooper was seen alive he was tying the bag of money to himself. That sounds about as easy to do as tying a pig to yourself. So the fact some of the money was found is a very weak argument that he died. What else is there to suggest he died? The fact he has never turned himself in? I have studied a lot of famous cases and they always have a lot of clutter and amazing peripheral happenings that aren't relevant. But if you study long enough you find a main channel of information. This case seems different and odd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colson 0 #1359 April 11, 2008 QuoteI think it is quite basic, unless there is proof otherwise, you assume he lived. Agreed, in 1971. But 30+ years later with still nothing solid turning up..... QuoteWhat else is there to suggest he died? The fact he has never turned himself in? Or maybe because he stepped off the back of a 727 doing 120+knots into a rainstorm, in overcast, over mountains, wearing a business suit, with little to no training, etc..... QuoteThe last time Cooper was seen alive he was tying the bag of money to himself. That sounds about as easy to do as tying a pig to yourself. So the fact some of the money was found is a very weak argument that he died. Which is why I cant understand why most of the theories depict him as determined, methodical, skillful. They should go more like: He had no idea where he was, but jumped anyway, as he hit the airstream he flailed around and immediately lost the breifcase, and due to lack of goggles was unable to see well because of the rain/wind hammering his face. Now tumbling about with a bag loosely tied to him that is now flipping around beating the hell out of him he thinks "where was that ripcord again?" If it doesnt end there then he yanks the ripcord, and right after the tremendous opening shock of a flat circular watches his money bag fall away from him. He eather lands and is injured, thus dies (broken ankle in mountains=bad), or in a stroke of luck somehow lives, but that isnt likely. I remember something in the 90's on tv where they had a stuntman jump with a bag and try to fall stable, then they dropped him in a pool with a rig off the high dive, etc all to simulate possible cooper outcomes, or to depict the actual seriousness of what Cooper was trying to do. I cant remember for sure but I think they said something like "possible but not likely." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albert18 0 #1360 April 11, 2008 Cooper committed a crime that activated the Air Force, the National Guard, the FBI, the FAA, and all sorts of state and local law enforcement. To start the crime he handed over a note. This note in effect told the authorities where he would commit the crime and what crime he was going to commit. The crime then slowly occured over many hours. Law enforcement knew where Cooper was at all times during the crime. Cooper committed the crime with no disguise and wearing a business suit. He started the crime in Portland and ended the crime just north of Portland. He apparently picked a very clever name for his alias. Even though basically blind to everything going on, he sat calmly on the plane while it was parked in Seattle. So calm he even spent time in the bathroom. And the crew said he was going to be in there for a while so he must have even told them he would be in the bathroom for a while. I'm sorry, but I need to see a body. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albert18 0 #1361 April 11, 2008 Let's review something I posted. The aircrew told ops that Cooper was in the bathroom and would be there for a while. This is while the airplane is parked on the ground waiting for the fuel truck. The only way the aircrew would know that Cooper would be in the bathroom for a while is if Cooper told them he was going to be in there for a while before he went into the bathroom. Cooper was hijacking the airplane using a bomb. The way you control people with a bomb is to have at least one of them next to you. Cooper was alone in the can. You can't see out of the can. He told them he would be in there for a while. Here is a question I would have for Himmelsbach. Did he have somebody hold the bomb for him while he was in the bathroom? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 20 #1362 April 11, 2008 I wonder if Cooper flushed some evidence? Wonder if the FBI skipped that line of investigation, perhaps intentionally?2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colson 0 #1363 April 11, 2008 QuoteI'm sorry, but I need to see a body. You dont always need a body to solve a case...I just wonder why everybody tends to gravitate to the idea that he survived. QuoteAnd the crew said he was going to be in there for a while so he must have even told them he would be in the bathroom for a while. You assume he told them? The problem with this case is there are too many guesses that became facts, people approach the case generating theories and not gathering facts. Even know facts arent solid. Quotenote: That the 1973 return shows the purchase of 2 new cars - yet he had purchased new cars in early 1972 with virtually NO income from 1971. The 1972 purchase may have been an enticement to get his wife back. There ware NO loans on the 1972 vehicles purchases. Maybe he was paid under the table then, that would explain the lack of job history then. Or maybe he saved hundreds by switching his auto insurance to Geico.... Everything can go more then one way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albert18 0 #1364 April 12, 2008 You have to use reason in looking at a case. Cooper wasn't on the airplane when it landed but no one saw him jump and there isn't a video of him jumping but I think it is reasonable to assume he jumped. The communication log shows the aircrew telling ops that Cooper was in the lav and would be there a while. How would they know he would be there a while? I think you have two choices, Cooper must have given someone that info or the aircrew locked him in the lav and were joking about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SafecrackingPLF 0 #1365 April 12, 2008 I took the day off, will get back to everyone tomorrow. Reading through quickly: Mt St Helens is North and East of the landing area. The blast was on the North side of the mountain and the SW winds blew the ash AWAY from the landing area (Clark County). Second, from my understanding, when Weber said "Oh F###! Let it die with me!" was after he tried to confess and it was obvious she had no freaking clue what he was talking about. Why say anything? He tried and then gave up. Then the nurses came in and he was drugged up for the remainder of his life. A few days later, with others in the room, he began mumbling about burying 173 or 178 thousand in a bucket. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albert18 0 #1366 April 12, 2008 Quote Second, from my understanding, when Weber said "Oh F###! Let it die with me!" was after he tried to confess and it was obvious she had no freaking clue what he was talking about. But every Tom, Dick, and Harry could go to the FBI with this story. Seriously. How hard is it to confess to a crime? Why wouldn't he confess to the crime instead of confessing to being Dan Cooper? Wouldn't he see himself as the guy who hijacked a 727 and got away with it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n467us 0 #1367 April 12, 2008 I agree that deathbed confessions are often flawed. Here is another way to put this into perspective. If Duane Weber wanted his wife to "think" he was DB Cooper, for the Walter Mitty ("I'm somebody famous") aspect, I believe he would have sprung this on her during the marriage, and gotten some mileage out of it. INSTEAD, he actually did wait until on his deathbed and had nothing to gain by doing so. Everyone, including the FBI, is entitled to their opinion on this and I agree that hard evidence is always the preferred media in making determinations of guilt. Sometimes, however, we need to think this through from just a "common sense" standpoint... and in doing so I do not find any other yet identified suspect that has the circumstantial evidence pointing to him as much as Duane Weber does. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ckret 0 #1368 April 12, 2008 Here is the problem with all of the folks that have been forwarded as Db Cooper, no evidence, none, not a piece and to top it off their dead (exception of Mayfield). I don't mean to call anyone out, but give me just one document that directly supports just one claim made. So much has been brought forward, surely there exists just one small piece of paper that can support any part of a claim. i am not asking for proof that someone is or is not cooper, just one piece of paper that can support just one small aspect of a persons story. Is that too much to ask for? you can go on and on and on (I'll put the little dots in so I don't have to keep writing on and on)...... But until you provide something that can support your claim it's just an interesting story. The New York Times best seller list is full of examples of interesting stories, its called fiction. So, for those of you putting forward a person of interest and you are asserting it as a matter of fact, then "show me the facts" I can't hear you!!! say it louder "show me the facts!!!!" louder, I still can't hear you, "SHOW ME THE FACTS!!!!!" Now dance when you say it, "SHOW ME THE FACTS!!!!" Thats better, now we have something to talk about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #1369 April 12, 2008 Quote I'm sorry, but I need to see a body. So do you believe Steve Fosset is still alive too?Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SafecrackingPLF 0 #1370 April 12, 2008 QuoteBut every Tom, Dick, and Harry could go to the FBI with this story. Absolutely correct. If he wanted to lie on his deathbed, then he could have. That's for people to figure out on their own if they believe it or not. I'm fairly sure skyjack is not making up the confession because there was a witness to his comments about the money in a bucket. Now, any Tom, Dick, and Harry can claim they are Cooper. Not any Tom, Dick, and Harry can be the top biometric match to the sketch out of a database of people. The odds: 1 in 3,000 When you inspect any Tom, Dick, and Harry's tax returns or financial dealings in the 12 months following the crime, not any Tom, Dick, and Harry had a minimum of $17,000 cash lying around to spend on cars and houses. Not any Tom, Dick, and Harry was indentified by a hotel concierge following the crime both in photo and by name. When you look at the story behind any Tom, Dick, and Harry and how they say the money wound up where it did, and then you reverse engineer what else had to hold true, Tom, Dick, and Harry have been wrong every single time. In fact, I will say it again... NOT one suspect and their alledged explaination of the money is adequate, OTHER THAN Weber's. Did Tom, Dick, and Harry figure out back in the 70s and 80s everything posted on this board regarding creeks, rivers, streams, sand strata, condition of bills, location of the plane, timeline of the jump??? Let's take a look. Keep in mind, this is how things stand right now (we could very well get compelling evidence soon that challenges the landing area) McCoy: theory is he "lost the money" Fact: Cooper could not have lost the money unless someone else found it and then threw it away Mayfield: theory is he "buried the money" when he landed Fact: landing sight was 12 miles away; money was deposited in 1979, not 1971 Cook's unnamed suspect: theory is he put some stacks of cash in his pocket and the cash came out when he jumped Fact: Cooper did not even place money in his pocket (as per Ckret) and even if he did, the jump was 12 miles away, bills were found together, and they were deposited in 1979 with rubberbands still intact. Weber: theory is he came back to Vancouver in late fall of 1979; went to the river and also went digging at some point (came back with dirt all over himself), 4 or 5 months later, ransom was found. Fact: Money was deposited in 1979; an out of state Cooper fits the general theory of a surviving Cooper leaving money behind; a returning Cooper finding money in 79 would explain why it was discarded (ruined); being up the river digging the ransom up would potentially explain how money was deposited in 1979 if he threw the bucket into the water and let it float away. Like I said, you're right, any Tom, Dick, and Harry can make up a story... but there are some things here that cannot be made up, or are improbable to make up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #1371 April 12, 2008 QuoteIf Duane Weber wanted his wife to "think" he was DB Cooper, for the Walter Mitty ("I'm somebody famous") aspect, I believe he would have sprung this on her during the marriage, and gotten some mileage out of it. INSTEAD, he actually did wait until on his deathbed and had nothing to gain by doing so. Your last sentence is incorrect, he did have something to gain, a certain form of immortality. There are a few way to become (sort of) immortal. Among them; you can pass down a part of your DNA, you can write something that will stand the test of time or, you can have something written about you. I don't think we've ever determined that he did either of the first two (correct me if I'm wrong), but . . . the death bed confession could serve a number of purposes. 1) He really did it and would then go down in history as the only guy to ever "beat" the system. 2) He didn't do it and would go down in history for pulling off this one last great con job by making people THINK he did. 3) He didn't do it and would go down in history for NOT pulling off this one last great con. (How's THAT for a win/win?) The death bed confession costs nothing. It comes with ZERO negative consequences to him, yet does have a certain potential to create a legacy of sorts; good or bad, either way doesn't matter. Of course, there's at least a few other possibilities here as well, none of which actually moves the case forward in any meaningful way; it's all just side show. People do some weird stuff sometimes when they're looking to make one lasting mark in the world. Quote Sometimes, however, we need to think this through from just a "common sense" standpoint... and in doing so I do not find any other yet identified suspect that has the circumstantial evidence pointing to him as much as Duane Weber does. However, it's all circumstantial . . . absolutely nothing whatsoever in terms of actual evidence he was even near an airplane on that date.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SafecrackingPLF 0 #1372 April 12, 2008 My understanding is that the hotel concierge gave a statement the Portland FBI within days after the crime. My understanding is also that he was in the USA last month and was willing to reiterate his statement, but nothing ever came of it. Skyjack should be able to scan in some of those tax returns for you... that would be a piece of paper that shows he had $17k lying around right after the crime. It's not a piece of paper, but two weeks ago, a re-run of unsolved history aired, 1:3000 odds there with the FRS match. Anne Faass is formally on record as a witness to Weber's rambling about buring 178k in a bucket. This was reported by Doug Pasternak of US News and World Report (not exactly the national enquirer), he now works for Homeland Security... he'd probably take a call from an FBI agent. Link here Just to clear this up, I'm not putting forward any candidate, it could be him or not be him... I'm just writing what has been stated previously. I would do the same for Christiansen, Mayfield, or anyone else if there was more information on these guys (skyjack is actually here to talk and answer questions). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SafecrackingPLF 0 #1373 April 12, 2008 Quotehe was even near an airplane on that date Correct. There is a witness, still alive, who places him just down the street from PDX the night before the crime. According to the witness, the suspicious man requested a late check out and demanded that no one disturb him until after 12pm on Nov 24th (he wanted to sleep late). According to the witness, the man was upset when the hotel concierge joked about his name sounding like the drink, Tom Collins. Alledgedly, the suspicious man said "well, my name isn't Tom, it's John". The hotel clerk saw a picture of weber several years ago, showed his wife, and then called the newspaper and skyjack71 to say "that's the strange guy I remember"... Weber's primary alias was John Collins. Fairly sure there's at least one witness who places him at PDX the night before/day of the crime. That's at least a mile or so from a plane... so I suppose it's a matter of perspective if he was anywhere "near an airplane on that date". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #1374 April 12, 2008 QuoteIt's not a piece of paper, but two weeks ago, a re-run of unsolved history aired, 1:3000 odds there with the FRS match. Ok, you keep bringing that up as if it had any significance. The software wasn't designed to match faces with sketches; ever. They even say so in the program. Now, if you have a photo of DB Cooper and a photo of Weber, THEN I'd consider the results as being "interesting", but matching photos to a sketch in a television program that is from the outset highly biased in what result they wanted to get? I'm just not buying it. The producers of the television show had an obvious bias toward Weber being their "prime" suspect.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SafecrackingPLF 0 #1375 April 12, 2008 Quoteif you have a photo of DB Cooper and a photo of Weber, THEN I'd consider the results as being "interesting" Fair enough. Obviously if anyone ever had a picture of Cooper, the case would be solved. The FRS result is significant for one simple fact... the probability... It's not proof, never said it was proof, only that it's improbable that a guy who confessed would also beat out an entire database in an FRS comparison to the sketch. Does it mean the sketch was 100% spot on? Nope. In fact, Weber's match to the sketch was only the top choice, it was not an exact match... the odds of such an occurance are still 1 in 3,000. Call me stubborn, but in my line of work, 1 in 3,000 is significant. Not proof, but not "ah, any Tom, Dick, and Harry could do that"... nope. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
