howardwhite 5 #1 September 14, 2007 This article is from Ripcord, the 82nd Airborne newsletter, from circa 1958, in which Jacques Istel, D-2, suggests skydivers need to learn "pointing." HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fastphil 0 #2 September 15, 2007 Sailors too... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wdy_bnckr 0 #3 September 16, 2007 Howard, I remeber when Istel was at Ft. Bragg in '57 teaching freefall manuvers. Where did he get his knowledge? Also pointing as he called it and spoting as we called it was a critical skill before the squares came out..Woody Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #4 September 16, 2007 I met Jacques Istel a few times over the years when he'd stop by Lake Elsinore. The last time was hysterical. I'd just driven up to work one morning and saw him talking to the male half of the husband & wife team that was running the DZ at the time. As I walked over I realized the DZO had no clue who he was talking to and was actually trying to sell him a tandem jump. Jacque was playing along with, "What if zee parachute she dizz not open?" And on it went until I couldn't help but bust out laughing. When the DZO looked at me and said, "What?" I said, "You dope, you're trying to sell bootleg whiskey to Al Capone . . ." Jacque brought "controlled" freefall to the U.S. from France. While jumpers here were basically tumbling around out of control the French were already doing stable delays, turns, and back and front loops. Jacque took note of this when he visited France for a mid-fifties parachute meet. >> and spoting as we called it was a critical skill before the squares came out..That's a bit of stretch as people still manage to land off the DZ. But alas, nobody knows how to "point" anymore . . . NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveJack 1 #5 September 17, 2007 Quote >> and spoting as we called it was a critical skill before the squares came out..That's a bit of stretch as people still manage to land off the DZ. But alas, nobody knows how to "point" anymore . . . That's not true Nick. These days jumpers are very good at pointing at the green light so everyone knows it's time to climb out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,048 #6 September 17, 2007 Hi Nick, Quote Jacque brought "controlled" freefall to the U.S. from France. What might be considered even more important, he brought back the sleeve he discovered in France. It finally made the opening shock tolerable. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #7 September 17, 2007 That's right - and there was resistance to the Sleeve from American jumpers. Jacque was insisting on their use at some early meet and wasn't it Lyle Cameron who said, "Sure I have a sleeve; I have one on this arm, and one on this arm." And while the Sleeve did its job at the time, its true usefulness was later usurped by diapers and other "hold the skirt closed and let the lines go first" type devices. I'd imagine most of us here made all our early jumps with Sleeves, and maybe later PODS, but what I miss the most about those days was the excuse to ask a pretty girl to hold tension for me. That was the best pick up line in the world . . . NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonstark 8 #8 September 17, 2007 Quote I'd imagine most of us here made all our early jumps with Sleeves, and maybe later PODS, but what I miss the most about those days was the excuse to ask a pretty girl to hold tension for me. That was the best pick up line in the world . . . NickD BASE 194 We learned so much by holding tension but observer rides allowed you to tell the pretty girls "Think of me as your doctor so I can touch you anywhere." as you were strapping them into the harness and clipping on the reserve. Not to take advantage of that sacred student/teacher relationship or anything like that... jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JSBIRD 1 #9 September 17, 2007 Quote I'd imagine most of us here made all our early jumps with Sleeves, and maybe later PODS, but what I miss the most about those days was the excuse to ask a pretty girl to hold tension for me. That was the best pick up line in the world . . . NickD BASE 194 Amen brother. BASE359"Now I've settled down, in a quiet little town, and forgot about everything" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 5 #10 September 17, 2007 Jacques was in Europe in the summer of 1955 for an International Parachuting Commission meeting and spent some time at a French DZ learning style and freefall stuff from French champion types. As to the sleeve, he and Lew Sanborn got a patent in 1961 (two files attached). It wasn't that people hadn't been using sleeves earlier but -- in the patent-speak of the patent, "The most important disadvantage of the prior art sleeve was its separability from the parachute" -- in other words, it wasn't attached and you had to go chasing it after every jump. I've got a few other Istel patents which are also fun to read if you filter out the patent-speak. They need to be chopped up to make them small enough to post (as I did with this one.) I'll get around to it. HW HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #11 September 17, 2007 Quote ... But alas, nobody knows how to "point" anymore . . . Maggie still knows how to point... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,123 #12 September 17, 2007 Quote what I miss the most about those days was the excuse to ask a pretty girl to hold tension for me. That was the best pick up line in the world . . . Being a girl jumper, that meant I got to learn how to pack rounds without anyone holding tension Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #13 September 17, 2007 Quote Quote what I miss the most about those days was the excuse to ask a pretty girl to hold tension for me. That was the best pick up line in the world . . . Being a girl jumper, that meant I got to learn how to pack rounds without anyone holding tension Wendy W. Yeah, but I'd bet a pay-check that skydiving "back then" was no different then "today"... as in... I'm sure as one of the few gals on the DZ, you had LOTS and LOTS of men willing to give you help packing... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #14 September 17, 2007 While of course the were exceptions to woman being in the sport "back in the day" I have a film from the late sixties from the TV show "American Sportsman." It focused on a Ten Man team and a few first jump students and was probably filmed at Orange. Watching it today is like sitting through "Reefer Madness" from the fifties. The only woman portrayed in the film are basically girlfriends. And what was funny is their claiming, "We don't just hang around," is proven by the fact they met their men in the peas and carried in their front mounted reserves and helmets. In the military club I was in there were absolutely no woman jumpers and the clubhouse, at least at night, was a place to get away from the wives and girlfriends. In fact I didn’t see a woman jumper until I came to So Cal in the early 70s. That first day I sat next to jennie McCombs in the DC-3 on the way to altitude and to this day woman jumpers sort of frighten me . . . NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 5 #15 September 17, 2007 Quote I have a film from the late sixties from the TV show "American Sportsman." It focused on a Ten Man team and a few first jump students and was probably filmed at Orange. If that's the Jeep show, I want a copy. (I think it was "American Family.) (I'm the instructor in the show). HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #16 September 18, 2007 I can transfer it to a DVD for you, if you are sure it's the right one. In the film there is a sequence showing the Instructor during the FJC. He's tall, lanky, and has longish dark hair (didn't we all). He also plays a tune on the guitar and sings later in the show. Is that you? NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piper17 1 #17 September 18, 2007 One of the exceptions to the lack of women in the sport "way back when" was my first jumpmaster - Ellen Jefferies, mother of Jack Jefferies. If believe I was her first student when she put me out on 8 Nov 70 on my first S/L jump at CPI. As I recall, the saying was that women were good for two things - "holding tension and relieving tension". Of course, I never said such a thing. "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 5 #18 September 18, 2007 Tall, lanky, longish dark hair, maybe. Guitar, no. Probably Terry-O, who is responsible for several lyrics in the olde original Parachute Songbook that Dan Poynter published in, I guess, the late sixties. But I still want itHW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #19 September 18, 2007 Howard, I had some unexpected free time this morning so I made a DVD of the show and dropped it at the post office for you. I sent it priority mail so you should have it in a couple of days. I watched part of it as I was making the dub and enjoyed seeing it again. There's a few seconds of black screen between the two segments so don't bail out and miss the second part. Also, inadvertently, in the beginning of the DVD will be a long ago three way CRW wrap that killed a friend of mine, and the other two jumpers. I didn’t realize it was there until the dub was done. Let me know who's who in the show, as I've always wondered . . . Enjoy! NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 5 #20 September 18, 2007 Thanks. (But by making a public post, you're opening yourself up to getting lots of other requests, no?I'll let you know if I am, in fact, the hero. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fastphil 0 #21 September 18, 2007 Quote Quote what I miss the most about those days was the excuse to ask a pretty girl to hold tension for me. That was the best pick up line in the world . . . Being a girl jumper, that meant I got to learn how to pack rounds without anyone holding tension Wendy W. Being a girl jumper I'll bet you got plenty of "I'll hold yours if you'll hold mine" offers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #22 September 18, 2007 Not really. I'll be directing those requests to you. NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 5 #23 September 21, 2007 The DVD arrived today. As so often happens, my memory of my importance in the show is not fully supported by the facts.The instructor and guitar player is Condon McDonough, who was one of first instructors at the Lakewood, NJ, center but was back in Orange when I started there. I saw him most recently at the July 14 thing in Orange. The 10-way team was not a local one, but consisted of blow-ins from New York and New Jersey (you can tell by their accents.) They normally jumped then at the New York DZ which is now The Ranch. They came to Orange because it had that "big" airplane, a porthole door Beech 18. The jumps into the small target in a small field were at the famous Inn at Orange, the restaurant/bar/dormitory that served as the after jump scene. But I am in the show. Two pictures attached. You'll just have to take my word for it. (The airplane is a Noorduyn Norseman.) Thanks for the memories. If other people want to see this, PM me. I might make DVDs or just edit it a bit and put it on a server as a .mov file HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #24 September 21, 2007 Cool . . . I'm glad you enjoyed it. >>Blow-insThere's a term I'll be using on visiting B.A.S.E. jumpers from now on . . . That Ten-Man, called the "Get It Together" star team, was something else, especially the team captain who's described as a, "Hairdresser from Gimbals' department store." It was also slick how they doubled timed out to the Beech shouting, "Good & Plenty, Good & Plenty," over and over. By all means put this up as a downloadable file if you can as today's jumper would get a kick out of it . . . NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbrasher 0 #25 September 23, 2007 Nick, I'd like to see it, too!. Red, White and Blue Skies, John T. Brasher D-5166 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
