emergency exit - bail out on main on reserve?

[Newbie 0]

i was just wondering - below 1000ft and aircraft emergency = ride it down on the plane, braced.

So does that mean between 1000-2000ft and an aircraft emergency = go out on your reserve?

Whats the decision altitude to go out on reserve instead of main? I would have thought anything below 1500ft = reserve ride. Is that being overly cautious? I guess im worried about having to exit low, deploy a main which snivels, then you run into a malfunction and dont have enough time to get a reserve out.

Also, in an emergency ABOVE a certain altitude would an aircraft emergency exit still be a hop n pop? What i mean is, say you're at 9000 or something and everyone has to bail. Is everyone meant to be hopping and popping mains at 9000? i know thats what we are taught - hop n pop for emergencies, but whats the deal with doing that say above 4 or 5000? Im just asking because i would imagine that rather than everyone exit literally one after the next and deploy straight away, would it not make more sense to exit and get some sort of separation from that height, then deploy?

Thanks all

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[PhreeZone 15]

Under 1000... its the pilots call. For 1500 and up its going to be the main probally. Just remember at 1500 the cypres arms so... you risk a double out at 1500 on a main if it snivels too much.

In a snivel if you need to speed up the openings pull on the rear risers and it will open faster.

At 9000... its all about how close to the DZ we are... Odds are that you would be at least 3-5 miles out or even up to 10. I'd pull right out the door unless the uppers are hauling and would make it more dangerous to open there then at 5000 feet. Its best to open right out the soor so if some one does happen to freefall... there is no chance of them falling into your canopy.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[drenaline 0]

This Q's has come out before on the safety and training forum, you might do a search and find some helpful stuff.

If I remember correct we all concluded that its all about DZ policies and what is theyr emergency procedures.

What goes with everybody is that below 1000ft you land with the plane, between 1000ft and 1500ft you go to the reserve (if I open my spectre at 1500 I will get a completely opened canopy at 800 feets if am lucky and packed a slammer, maybe that can fire the AAD, and the thought of an emergency at 800 feets is scary) from 1500fts to 2000fts and from 2000fts to whateva altitude you should ask the DZO to see what they prefer.

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[JFC3 0]

From my own experience in an emergency exit at 5,000 we staggered our openings but it was for all intensive purposes a "hop&pop." This was because as you mentioned we all had to get out right away - no real safty separation. So the first guy took it down to 3 and we worked up from there. It was an Otter so we had duplicates and jerks not pulling where they were supposed to because it was too high, but we all got down safely.

I would say just listen and follow instructions.

Per your first question - I would go for my reserve if I had to leave that low. JMO.

"Five days? But I'm angry now!"

[fudd 0]

Hi
This has been discussed here on the forum many times before. If it's an emergency exit under 1500' it's probably wise to go right for the reserve since you might have ridiculus short time for an emergency procedure. In such a stressed situation you also are at higer risk of having to do a pull in an unstable position, and then it's better to go for the reserve because it has a freebag and not a regular d-bag which can complicate things.
In case of a higher altitude bailout listen to and follow the jumpmasters instructions. There is an article about this in the safety section which discuss some different sceneries.
-fudd

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[Newbie 0]

thanks for the link and advice all - i just searched and found this has been discussed before, sorry i should have done that first.

Thanks anyway for the useful advice!

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[fudd 0]

We all have to keep these things fresh in mind anyway, so it's quite ok to get a reminder-blue skies
--- I have an idea, lets jump out of a perfectly good airplane!!! ---

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[WmLauterbach 0]

A few things to think about...

If you are at 998 feet and the plane is on fire with one wing, do you ride it down or exit and pull the reserve? (some chance of surivival is better than none)

If you are at 1999 feet, and the pilot turns white and bails out, do you get out and pull your main or reserve?

If your ALTIMETER reads 4000 feet, the pilot turns white and bails out, but you are flying over a 3000ft high mountain range, do you get out on the main or reserve?
(and how do you know the ridge is 3000ft high)


OK... you are at 9000 feet, at an unknown location, and the pilot says "get out", what do you do? I for one am going to leave, and pull, and heres why...
IMHO, pilots inherently DO NOT want people leaving the plane 'until it is time to jump'... (if anyone doubts this, next time you are in the plane, open the door too early and watch how pissed off the pilot gets.) If you are out in 'the meadowlands' and the pilot tells you to "get out" it is safe to assume that something is wrong with the airframe! Since something is wrong, the pilot wants to get on the ground as soon and as safe as possible... If jumpers decide they want to pull at all available altitudes between the plane and the ground, the pilot now has new worries "where in the hell are all the jumpers" Mind you... his plane may not be in a ready state to dodge 10 parachutes spaced out between 10 different altitudes (remember, the plane is broke hence the emergency exit) I can promise that if a parachute and a broke plane battle for the same airspace, the broke plane will win the collision 100% of the time. If you exit and deploy, the non-working plane that is trying to land will be below you, looking for a place to land, you will most likely NOT be in his way... (not to mention that you may have been flying over a 7500ft high ridgeline) Now if you are so far away that the drop zone is an impossibility, you are high enough to have planty of time to find a good landing area. (which may be a significant event depending on what kind of canopy you are under) I guess the bottom line is, know where you are, and what handle you are going to pull if ya' gotta leave early...



just my 2 cents, I could be wrong....

[drenaline 0]

Good point of view.

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[Spy38W 0]

I fly a C-182, and in all the situations I can think of I would prefer people to clear, pull, and let the airplane get down first... In other words, if you have a Velocity 79, don't spiral down and beat the airplane that way.
I don't want to have to look for canopy traffic, other airplanes, a landing field at the same time, while trying to identify, fix or mitigate whatever problems I'm having with the airplane.
Of course I am going to be looking for canopies and other airplanes while figuring out where to land, and taking care of the airplane, but it would be nice to make my job a little bit earsier.

Quote

I can promise that if a parachute and a broke plane battle for the same airspace, the broke plane will win the collision 100% of the time.

I think more towards the direction that both will lose. The airplane, broken or not will more than likely sustain major damage, or lose substantial controllability with a skydiver impact, or a canopy getting wrapped somewhere. *Note, this is just my opinion, I haven't had or seen any skydiver/plane collisions, but I have had a large bird strike.

Let me finish by saying I'm still a fairly new diverdriver (tm) and I welcome any suggestions corrections or whatever from the more experienced people out there

--
Hook high, flare on time

[hobbes4star 0]

anything below 2000ft i would go strait to my silver....

if fun were easy it wouldn't be worth having, right?

[diverdriver 5]

Ok, I figured I way in here now. Over the years that I've flown jumpers I've had 3 engine failures in single engine jump planes. The highest one happened at 1,000 AGL. I had one in a DC-3 at 10,000 AGL and one in a Super Otter at 6,000 AGL with 19 on board.

Here is what I would suggest for low altitude emergencies: Anything below 1,500 feet you are going to ride the plane because by the time you identify a problem and the pilot has the oportunity to make the decision for you to bail you will be burning altitude. Plus, everyone has taken their helmets off at 1,000 AGL (which I totally disagree with) so some may try to put them back on. They all have to get up and start exiting. In a 182 you may be below 1,000 feet very quickly. So, I feel the pilot has a better chance of getting back to the airport on a downwinder or picking a good field for landing if no one is climbing over him below 1,500 AGL. Above 1,500 to above 2,000 I would go out on the reserve. I don't know what I'm getting out over so I want my slowest landing canopy to land me. (My main is a 107) And I want it to open the fastest. My main is not packed for a fast opening and now I'll be doing a subterminal hop-n-pop.

Well above 2,000 I would then decide to use the main.

On my 3 failures in single engine planes no one got out and I was able to make the airport each time without bending any metal.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[IronMike 0]

I think it totally depends on the situation. If the plane were not on fire, and anyone of the pros at Perris were flying the Otter, I would ride it down under 3000. If over bad terrain, Ill take my reserve below 2000. Anything above, Ill go main and take my chances. You also have to think, if you hit anything with ANY forwars momentum with 12 people sitting besides you, belted or not, that is one hell of a lot of kinetic energy stored there.

Mike

[faulknerwn 36]

I've had a bunch of "engine-out" emergencies over the years. It depends on the airplane, but if a Cessna is flying fairly flat, just without an engine, we've generally managed to evacuate in <10 seconds The 206 with a rear door was even faster :-)

This winter we had a Super Otter have an engine problem at 1300 feet. The pilot didn't want to land with us in it, so we bailed. He put the green light on short because he thought it would take us a long time to get out. It didn't :-) Interestingly enough, of ~20 people or so getting out, only 2 went out on their reserves. I was open ~1100 feet. I'd say the lowest a main was open was 900 feet or so. The guys under their reserves were in the middle of the pack as far as opening altitudes went. In fact I chased down freebags and landed after the guys under their reserves. I believe I was wearing my Diablo 88 on that jump. Remember that most of your deployment is horizontal. We had never climbed above 1500 feet so Cypreses weren't an issue.

My personal feeling is to give myself as many options as possible. Above 800 feet or so I'm going on my main - most of the opening is horizontal not vertical so you don't lose much altitude. That way I get a second chance if something is wrong. True, it takes faster reactions, but I trust my mains and I normally pack for myself. And if its my CRW rig, it opens WAY faster than my reserve anyway. But I do have almost 1500 h&p CRW exits so I am EXTREMELY comfortable going out of any airplane, being stable and deploying quickly. For people who are less comfortable getting out of various aircraft, being immediately stable, a reserve would be a better choice. Its not a good time to be dipping a shoulder on your Stilletto deployment.

W

[nicknitro71 0]

Good posts.

Here is my take.

2000 and above: go for the main, hop and pop even if you have to bail out @ 14000. Remember that you do not know where you are.

500 and below: you got no choice, stay in the plane.

500-1000: If the plane can land safely, stay in, if it's a rough deal like a broken wing bail out and pull the silver.

1000-1400: I would go for the silver.

1400-2000: Two scenarios: If you have a AAD you must go for the silver, period. If no AAD I would go for the main only if is you have a conservative canopy with a reasonable wing load. I would not hop and pop a velocity loaded 2.4 at 1500!

Few other things: before getting in the plane face the sun and extend one of your arms. Then point the other arm into the wind and memorize the angle: 0-360 (just one number). If you have to bail out you know the direction you have to land.
If you can not find the drop zone by 1500 forget about it and find a nice landing area.

Bottom line, be always prepare for the worst.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[diverdriver 5]

Yah....I like them U206s.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[riddler 0]

I agree about knowing DZ policy. But something else to think about - don't just jump out when something goes wrong. Wait for the pilot to yell at you to get out. Something may go wrong, but still be a controllable situation for the pilot. If you jump out then, you change CG, which could turn a controllable situation into an uncontrollable one. Try to save the plane and the other jumpers by listening to the captain - it's important for everyone to be quiet here so you can hear the PILOT and not other jumpers that are panicking. Of course, if the cap'n says get out, it's everyone for themselves Screw the whole women/children first thing.

Also, keep in mind that if you are below 2000, things are dangerous. There is always a chance that the ground underneath you at any point is higher than where you started. Your altimeter may say 1,500, when the ground is really at 1,000. This is especially true where I jump next to the mountains in Colorado.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[nicknitro71 0]

Quote

Good posts.

Here is my take.

2000 and above: go for the main, hop and pop even if you have to bail out @ 14000. Remember that you do not know where you are.

500 and below: you got no choice, stay in the plane.

500-1000: If the plane can land safely, stay in, if it's a rough deal like a broken wing bail out and pull the silver.

1000-1400: I would go for the silver.

1400-2000: Two scenarios: If you have an AAD you must go for the silver, period. If no AAD I would go for the main only if you have a conservative canopy with a reasonable wing load. I would not hop and pop a velocity loaded 2.4 at 1500!

Few other things: before getting in the plane face the sun and extend one of your arms. Then point the other arm into the wind and memorize the angle: 0-360 (just one number). If you have to bail out you know the direction you have to land.
If you can not find the drop zone by 1500 forget about it and find a nice landing area.

Bottom line, be always prepare for the worst.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[harro 0]

In Australia I remember the rules we were told during AFF :

1000 ft to 2000 go to reserve
2000 and above go to main

Jumpy Jumpy??