Hinton UK - Not the place I once knew.....

[BASE813 0]

Well, after 3 years out of skydiving and 11 months after a parachuting
accident that badly smashed my leg, I decided to pay the outrageous
£112 pounds BPA membership and £10 club membership, throw my Troll
into a skydiving container, and do some hop n pops from 6k to gain
canopy and landing confidence. A beautiful day at Hinton, and I was
disgusted by the treatment of people.

First off it was a shock to hear that people had to have their BPA
membership cards to jump. In the past having made application was
enough and is actually enough for the BPA to enable someone to jump.
Ok, I can understand the DZO's making this ruling, it is their
business and it does ensure that people dont take the piss and jump
without membership as has happened in the past. This I dont have a
problem with. What I found unfair, was that people (including
cameramen and tandem masters who had worked there for years, and
people who had jumped there for years and lined their pockets and were
deemed "friends") where not allowed to use eMails / BPA web checking
as confirmation of membership. To not use the BPA web checking for
membership and to blatently say this is not good enough and to turn
away these people was just obtuse and damn right unfriendly. There
were alot of unhappy people there on Saturday and I cant blame them.
The person I was wanting to jump with on my return back, had
membership but not the card, this in turn ensured he was not jumping
and ensured that I would not make as many jumps as I planned - to me
this was all round bad business sense, as not only did they loose
money from people that day, they will be loosing future money from
people who did not appreciate being treated like this. I was standing
at the manifest when one chap who had been living in Oz for a few
years asked if his temporary membership was valid (it was in date and
as he had an Oz address the BPA had granted him a temporary
membership) - he was told in no uncertain terms "no", and was led to
beleive by the DZO that it was the BPA rules that he was unable to
jump - he walked away disgusted , and no doubt another loss of a
jumper and future revenue from him and the people he would jump with.

Secondly, I was only wanting to do Hop n Pops, after being told I was
on the first C206 lift and me having to say I was not ready as I was
still rigging up my canopy to the skydiving container, my name sat on
the board with names below me constantly being added to lifts and my
name not moving. I asked the manifest what was happening, and I was
then told the DZO had said I was not to go on a Let lift but only a
C206 lift - now to throw me out of the Let at 6k on a climbing pass
would not be a major issue, but again I guess the greed made the
decision I was only worthy of a C206 lift. So I asked around and there
seemed to be only 3 students in this day, and they were all on SL, I
was then told I would not be able to be taken to 6k as it was not
worth just taking me there and I would have to find people to fill the
C206 to take it to 6k. Now this was impossible as (1) it was a
beautiful blue sky day and people were wanting to go to 12k, (2) who
the fuck wants to pay £14! to 6k in a c206 except CRW / Accuracy / or
me who wants to put their BASE canopy in a skydiving container and
have some canopy time and landing practice after a bad accident in
BASE. I took my name off the board and left the DZ about 3pm. My
return to parchuting now will be back to BASE, I am that annoyed that
I have decided not to gain some canopy time in the skydive
environment, not ideally what I wanted to do.

Now I had skydived at Hinton for 3 years and have done most of my
500+ jumps there. I have been there many weekends and have been their
on shit weather days hanging out and filling the c206 to cloud base
and hop n popping. Alot of my money has passed through there, as has
alot of money from my friends. The change I saw in returning back to
skydiving at Hinton is a change for the worse. They are a business and
they are running the "skydiving Center" as a business, and although I
appreciate this, they are making bad business decisions in pissing
people off like this. You have to give something back sometimes to
keep the customer happy - you cant assume loyalty and you cant keep
annoying people and bumping them off lifts and assume they will be
back the following week. Several years ago there used to be a mass of
skydivers there, and even on a bad weather day the hanger used to be
filled to the brim with skydivers (not tandem families) waiting to
jump - on saturday on a blue sky day there were barely enough to fill
the let, where and why did these skydivers leave?

So for those of you new to the sport, and only jumping at Hinton, take
it from me, go out and try other DZ's. You will see a massive
difference in the treatment of skydivers.

Ok, rant over, had to say something as I was really unhappy at my
return to skydiving and my return to what I saw as my home DZ. Its not
the place I once knew........

[Dazzle 0]

Should have popped up to Langar! Membership forms handed in on saturday no problem, plenty of loads stopping off at 5K for someone back to backing to make their numbers up for an AFF course, and loads going up with slots free to keep the planes running. 5 for me on Sat (AFF Candidate did 10 before being knackered) after a late start waiting for the cloud to clear and another 4 on sunday with a weather hold whilst the Grand Prix was on (!)

Organising for flat and freeflying as well.

If anyone spent the weekend waiting for a chance to get in the plane they should have been up at Langar.

[gus 1]

Yeah, you didn't sound too impressed and I don't blame you, the good will of UK jumpers towards their home dropzones is too often abused. It seems to me that too often that good will flows in one direction only.....

Langar's my home dz and I think Darren's right, it's generally a pretty cool place and it feels like it's become a lot better in terms of customer service recently. Hibs was also very good when I visited.

Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[Westie 0]

Thats pretty bad man!

I thought the old school creatures of Nethravon had stopped jumping through injury, or had moved abroad? Obviously not. It sounds as though they all decided to stay in the UK, move up to hinton and make a whole new batch of skydivers pissed off, by training the Hinton staff in customer care!

Whats happening with British skydiving?

Good Club atmosphere, R.I.P.

13's unlucky for some, but not for old Fred!

[Andrewnewell 0]

I'm thinking that at the next AGM someone could arrange some sort of a awards ceremony for the the worst British DZ, best sky god and so on and so forth?

A bit like what the rasberrys is to the oscars?

At least all BPA members get to have a big laugh at the people and places that make it a pain in the ass for Brit flyers who just want to enjoy the sport?

ooohhhh, I'm already feeling some negative vibes from that one! Bothered! Hehehe.

[achowe 0]

Never heard of having to have you membership card to jump. Normally just filling in the form at the DZ is enough.

Pen pushers.

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Woooaaaaaa!!! Woooaaaa!!! I'm gettin' off it!

[gremlin 0]

Nethers was busy on Sat am with people checking BPA -membership - forms perfectly acceptable - and APA membership but then jumping happily.

Yes you can be a civi and jump at Nethers and yes the bar does sell all drinks for £1.50

I'm drunk, you're drunk, lets go back to mine....

[jumpwally 0]

As big a pain in the ass that it is,,,,I still love the USA and all its greed. ;-)

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[scargill 0]

I was there this weekend and half of my mates couldn't jump because they had not got their renewal. Yes they were unhappy, but at they accepted they should have been more organised. Get over it and stop trying to lay the blame on others because you didn't get your act together 6 weeks ago when the renewal form came out. If you had been killed then the skydive community and the press would rip the DZ apart for not being safety conscious enough and stringent enough with checks. Seems like a no win situation. If you have been out of the sport for however long anyway then what is one more week.

Also you mention they could barely fill a lift.......funny how for each of my 3 jumps on Sat I had to wait hour because the manifest was so full........

I am relatively new to Hinton and the staff and jumpers have always been extremely helpful and friendly........seems like you had a bad day, but don't go mouthing off to the world thats the place is completely shit....as its not. I've been to worse DZ's.

[BASE813 0]

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Get over it and stop trying to lay the blame on others because you didn't get your act together 6 weeks ago when the renewal form came out.

You misread me - I had my membership sorted out. I was up on the board for 7 hours without being put on a lift because I wanted to get out at 6k for a hop n pop. They would not even do a climbing pass for me. I was told I had to find people to fill the C206 to 6k if I wanted to jump.

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I am relatively new to Hinton and the staff and jumpers have always been extremely helpful and friendly........seems like you had a bad day, but don't go mouthing off to the world thats the place is completely shit....as its not. I've been to worse DZ's.

I have been at Hinton for almost 6 years (although I have not skydived for 3 of those years). In the 3 years I have jumped there I have spent around £8,000 on jump tickets. I have seen Hinton slowly get worse and worse - so excuse me if I say to you, you have not got an idea or the History to tell me to get over myself - I am aware I was getting shit customer service and not being put on a Let lift because I was only wanting to go to 6k was a complete snub to me..............

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Also you mention they could barely fill a lift.......funny how for each of my 3 jumps on Sat I had to wait hour because the manifest was so full........

Dont mistake the manifest for being full for waiting for lifts because tandem lifts are going up - open your eyes

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but don't go mouthing off to the world thats the place is completely shit....as its not. I've been to worse DZ's.

Spend some years there, and listen to the skydivers with years of experience - compared to other DZ's (and yes there are also shit ones) Hinton rates LOW for a place for skydivers to go - its a tandem factory, and wait until you get bumped a few times for tandems before you tell me how great it is for skydiving - why is it that a few years back you would get 70+ skydivers there on a day and by 11am 10 lifts full up on manifest? but now you get a third of that? Am I wrong? Dont bother preaching to me & Dont go mouthing of to me without knowing the history or reading my post correctly........ I have been at Hinton alot longer than you.

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I am relatively new to Hinton

Nuff Said..............

and dont think I am the sort of person to hide behind an internet forum to say what I think.......... If you feel you want to discuss this "real world" then I am quite happy to explain my thoughts.

btw: you werent the blond chick with freefly pants on with her kit in the hanger (near the door) near mine were you?

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[evilivan 0]

Hey Vicki

Mac has pretty much made the point well enough, but I'll add my £0.001 here too.... Mac did rant a little, but being "old school" Hinton he does have something of a right to mouth off.

I came to Hinton much like you; 100ish jumps, not a huge amount of DZ experience (I'm assuming this from your experience level & time in the sport) and seemed to be welcomed. I made it my home for a few years, and although the social scene is pretty good, you soon come to realise (go to almost any US DZ to prove this) that the "regular" skydivers are not treated as customers - they are only tolerated as they provide entertainment for the tandem customers and make them feel like they are part of the skydiving scene for their £300+ day...

Hinton is not a DZ for jumping; if you want a 2 to 4 jump day and some beers with good company in the evening its just fine. Three jumps a day to 11.5k is not good skydiving value in anyones language.

Regards the Hinton BPA renewal requirement, I spoke to Geoff the previous weekend and from his point of view the new rule makes sense - unfortunately a lot of people didn't know about the rule and therefore they lost a good-weather weekend (and we know how rare they are) as a result. This is not a normal requirement and is specific to this DZ.

At the risk of sounding preachy, give another 3+ plus years in the sport and a couple of trips to the US and I really think you will agree...

Take care
Ivan

"If you can keep your head when all around you have lost theirs, then you probably haven't understood the seriousness of the situation."
David Brent

[skinnyshrek 0]

Never been to Hinton. Made 5 jumps at cocheram. i was used to jumping in the states The Ranch. Coming back to the Uk 10 years ago woke me up. If you really want to become a skydiver. Quit your job, and move over here. I will be visiting the Uk this summer. Probably go to spain and jump. Seems like Hinton is how i remember skydiving 10 years ago over there.

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[FFAddict 0]

I have very mixed feelings about hinton (my current home DZ)

The people are great, very friendly and all seem to be good at what they do (i am still a noob so it only my humble opinion)

But after jumping in the US the UK is a totally different ball game.

Firstly in the US every jumper was treated not as a customer but as a friend to everybody on the DZ. People would go out of there way to help you and make you feel welcome...
Although i do like all the people at hinton, the atmosphere is very differnt. You are treated as a customer and as such they will do anything they can to help you but you still just feel like a customer.

The entire attitude to tandems is very differnt aswell. In the states they did have a lot of tandems but they where basically seen as a necessary evil. In other words they need them to make money to pay for the equipment, bar.. for real jumpers, and as such jumpers came first (not to say that they didnt give the tandems a great day, because they did)
At hinton however Tandems do seem to come first, i have gone many times to spend my day sitting with the family of tandem jumpers, not skydivers, and waiting for loads because they are full of tandems and only done 2 or 3 jumps in a day.

As i said i am new and this is only my opinion from my limited experience

[scargill 0]

Ok without wanting to dig myself an even larger hole...!

Ok I admit I made the error of saying this without the 'but I appreciate I've only been in the sport 18 months, therefore my opinion mustn't count for much etc etc etc' disclaimer - and that is entirely true. I haven't been around for long hence experience is all relative - and you (and the other respondents) will be in a far better place to comment - I know that.

I didn't read your post properly, so I appologise for that. I would have been pretty annoyed too - I thought the reason you didn't get on a lift was because you didn't have your docs in order.

Anyway, that aside i stand by the point that people who couldn't jump had only theirselves to blame for not having their docs in order - but I understand why they might have thought they could get away without it last week if previously it hadn't been an issue (I wasn't aware that this had not been a problem in previous years - which would be due to my lack of time in the sport - which is not my fault (everyone has to start somewhere) so just don't make my lack of knowledge about some things a personal issue - because if people don't tell me then how am I supposed to know).

To me a deadline is a deadline - your car insurers wouldn't say it was ok and agree to pay up for an accident if you just posted your renewal that morning - so why should skydiving be any different? They were just trying to protect the interests of the jumpers as far as I can see - but maybe I am wrong.

I guess that 3-4 lifts a day is what I have come to expect from UK skydiving - admittedly I have only been to 4 DZ's in the UK, and with the exception of Hib the past weekend didn't seem anything worse then I have experienced anywhere else - hence my post. So is it Hinton, or is it UK DZ's in general that are going down hill - I don't know so tell me. I'm not being sarcastic here - I know I haven't seen much relative to you guys - so if you know somewhere thats great, you can pack in the jumps, you don't get bumped off manifest for tandems then tell me........but even my experienced jump friends tell me similar stories of other places that I haven't visited, and some of them have been jumping 20 years or more.

btw - no I wasn't the blonde in the freefly pants.

[skinnyshrek 0]

Don't know too much about the Uk skydiving anymore. I do know this. At any given time in Florida you will see quite a few jumpers from the Uk. Apparently, its cheaper for a return ticket and make 100 jumps over here in the states than it is to stay in the Uk and make 100 jumps. Better training and better weather. I left 10 years ago because i was tired of getting bumped off loads for students, bad weather and too bloody expensive. But i do miss the food and beer...lol

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[jose 0]

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I wasn't aware that this had not been a problem in previous years - which would be due to my lack of time in the sport - which is not my fault (everyone has to start somewhere)

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As I see it, no one here is judging you due to your nominal time in the sport.

so just don't make my lack of knowledge about some things a personal issue - because if people don't tell me then how am I supposed to know.***

Are you serious? You spoke of things you knew nothing about and spoke of them as if you knew everything! You learn by ASKING!!!!! Or for fucks sake, giving a guy with more time in the sport than you, the benefit of the doubt, instead of jumping all over his shit. Listen more, talk less and keep your mind open.

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[scargill 0]

Thats not how it was intended to come across, appologies if it did.

[gordy 0]

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To me a deadline is a deadline - your car insurers wouldn't say it was ok and agree to pay up for an accident if you just posted your renewal that morning - so why should skydiving be any different? They were just trying to protect the interests of the jumpers as far as I can see - but maybe I am wrong.

Sorry but your anaolgy isn't entirely accurate. For example, if you went through the static line progression system, when you get onto freefall the first thing an instructor will do is make you fill out the form to upgrade your tempory membership to full BPA membership. At this point you can now go on and receive your training and if your lucky do your first freefall. So back to your analogy, skydiving is different to car insurance.

[mattabram 0]

See you there next week then,Mike???

God gave men 2 brains,but only enough blood to fill one at a time....I can live with that.

[freekflyguy 0]

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Ok without wanting to dig myself an even larger hole...!

Dont worry we have all done that

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Anyway, that aside i stand by the point that people who couldn't jump had only theirselves to blame for not having their docs in order

Snip

To me a deadline is a deadline - your car insurers wouldn't say it was ok and agree to pay up for an accident if you just posted your renewal that morning - so why should skydiving be any different? They were just trying to protect the interests of the jumpers as far as I can see - but maybe I am wrong.

My renewal was posted in good time, I know this because the other 10 members of staff at RAPA recieved theirs before 01 April.

Mine however had not arrived before I left to attend my Tandem Inst course on 03 Apr (say hi to Mike Beeden for me). I did however check with the BPA web site to confirm my renewal, and took a printout with me to Langar (which was acceptable)

My new BPA membership arrived yesterday, the reason it was late seems to be that it was sent to my previous address.

Perhaps you are thinking that I was at fault for not informing the BPA of my new address. Had the paperwork for my Tandem course not been delivered to my new address I could conceed that point, however that is not the case.

My point, being as I have digressed somewhat is that not all those without membership this weekend were at fault.

With reference to car insurance, if the accident happens after start time and date stated on the policy, as long as you have proof the renewal was signed sent, and payment had been paid prior to the start time and date than yes they would pay out. Although I guess most people use Direct Debits now.

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I guess that 3-4 lifts a day is what I have come to expect from UK skydiving - admittedly I have only been to 4 DZ's in the UK, and with the exception of Hib the past weekend didn't seem anything worse then I have experienced anywhere else - hence my post. So is it Hinton, or is it UK DZ's in general that are going down hill - I don't know so tell me.

Unfortunatly that seems to be the case at a lot of DZ's. Tandems are where the money is. I was once told by the CCI at one DZ that he would rather give jumpers £5 and send them to another DZ to jump. They are less financially viable than Tandems.

You could always pop over to RAPA and do more than 4 lifts a day, and you would easily save the cost of an Air Berlin flight in jump tickets and beer, (are there many DZ bars that sell Becks for 50p a bottle and still make a profit)? We will even pick you up from the airport for free.

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btw - no I wasn't the blonde in the freefly pants.

Could you be a blonde in freefly pants? or preferably a red head

Buzz

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

[ernguru 0]

Mike, everywhere you go no matter what club or what sport you are in you will have a bad day. That does not mean that you should throw your toys out of the cot like you have done and blame the club. So what if Hinton have a new rule that you have to prove your club membership at the beginning of the season. There was plenty of warning. I myself was getting a lift up the following week and remembered about 30 minutes away from the club that I did not have my BPA card. I gave Hinton a call and Geoff told me that without the card I could not jump. Fair enough thats the rule. I took the fax number and called home and got my card faxed to the club. As I arrived and went to see if the fax was there Geoff was busy cutting it out to photocopy onto the membership form therefore allowing me to jump that day. Now what kind of service is that? To me thats top service which he did not have to do. Incidentally I got 10 jumps that weekend even though I turned up half way through Saturday.
I admit that Hinton was a bit of a Tandem factory in the past but things have changed and if you jump, pack and manifest instead of sitting around all day hoping that the world will come to you, you can easily get 10 jumps in.
One other thing that I have to say is you mentioned that you were manifested for load 1 yet your rig was not ready. That sounds like your fault. You know the rule you only manifest when you are ready.

I have to finish this with saying thanks to Geoff and Mike for organising such a great day/night yesterday and to Caroline for doing another brilliant job with the food, Matt for the great entertainment (MAN OVERBOARD, SHIVER ME TIMBER), Pat for her needlework on my rig (at short notice) and to Emo who packed my reserve (once again at very short notice)

[skyclownUK 0]

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I have to finish this with saying thanks to Geoff and Mike for organising such a great day/night yesterday and to Caroline for doing another brilliant job with the food, Matt for the great entertainment (MAN OVERBOARD, SHIVER ME TIMBER), Pat for her needlework on my rig (at short notice) and to Emo who packed my reserve (once again at very short notice)

Seconded! All credit to Caroline for a really good event.

Looking forward to seeing Matt's editied version of the skydives. Should be good. Mind you he did have some damn fine material to work with

Have fun

Ollie.

[mikew02 0]

What a great weekend the scrambles were. All credit to Hinton for great manifesting and organisation.
I hope the guy who started this thread was around - would be interested to know his opinion now.

[skinnyshrek 0]

Slightly off subject but I've jumped in the Uk 10 years ago. Black knights, Cocheram. Be over this summer. Good place to jump and how much are lift tickets these days?

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[achowe 0]

£17 I believe.....although not sure what aircraft they have at the moment....

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Woooaaaaaa!!! Woooaaaa!!! I'm gettin' off it!