Wing Loading Restrictions? (Skydive Kansas)

[weavermc 0]

I was denied permission to skydive at Skydive Kansas (Osage City, KS) last weekend because I wingload my Cobalt 120 at 2.1

I have 1400 jumps w/ Tandem, AFF, S/L, and PRO ratings and have made a slow transition from Sabre 150-135- Cobalt 120. None of my previous experiences or history was taken into consideration, I was just rudely told that I couldn't jump. (DZ policy is NO wing-loading over 1.5--which I would have violated on my Sabre 150 which I put 900 jumps on)

I am wondering if anyone else has seen similar restrictions across the US as this is my first experience with it. (Please shoot a quick post if you have or have not seen similar restrictions to help satisfy my curiosity... )

Thanks
Mark

[AggieDave 6]

Lets see, at SD Aggieland, our head instructor loads at 2.3:1, I load at 1.7:1, our head vidiot loads at 1.9:1, Hooknswoop used to jump here loading at 3:1, so nope, no actual restrictions.

Now, if you show up with 50 jumps and a VX 80, then I'm sure our S&TA will have a LONG talk with you.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Jessica 0]

Wow. I've never heard of such a thing.

You might wanna cross post this in General Skydiving Discussions, where you're sure to get more feedback.

Skydiving is for cool people only

[quade 3]

I don't see how this is any different than a drop zone that requires you to have a functioning Cypres.

It's a business decision that the drop zone makes.

The drop zone may lose your business, but I'm certain they feel they are making the correct decision for their business as a whole.

Actually, I kind of like the idea that they turned you down and didn't make an exception based on your experience because that would have opened them up to all sorts of issues. By turning you away, they keep their policy intact and nobody can say they're playing favorites.

While you may not respect them for what seems to you to be an arbitrary wingloading cutoff, I respect them for their determination to stick by it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[CanuckInUSA 0]

So if I showed up with Hook's VX 60 (I would load it at 4:1) they wouldn't let me jump? Awe that's discrimination isn't it? Of course I might as well just borrow one of your guns Aggie as I think they would make less of a mess than me trying to fly Hook's pocket rocket.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[weavermc 0]

I called them afterwards and wrote a long email (neither of which was returned - more good customer service)... in those messages I applauded them for being safety-concious but thought that they could have incorporated a little flexibility into the policy.

I was more peeved by them not posting the restriction on their website since I drove 1-1/2 hours to get there and even if I was jumping my original Sabre 150, I wouldn't have met their criteria.

[Spy38W 0]

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I was more peeved by them not posting the restriction on their website since I drove 1-1/2 hours to get there and even if I was jumping my original Sabre 150, I wouldn't have met their criteria.

I was wondering if they had it posted also, so I checked, and it is there. Not saying you're wrong, perhaps they just updated it.

http://www.skydivekansas.com/policy_lic.htm

--
Hook high, flare on time

[weavermc 0]

I searched the website extensively before and after my trip, and the everything about the currency requirements was posted AFTER this weekend and after my email.

At least this wont happen to someone else now.....

[skycat 0]

you couldn't jump there with what you fly now.

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WING LOADING FOR THOSE WITH LESS THAN 500 JUMPS NOT TO EXCEED 1.3

Fly it like you stole it!

[Zenister 0]

definately a DZ that wont be getting my business.

someone should tell them you can kill yourself at 1.1 just as quickly as 1.5

its all about the pilot, not the canopy.

edit: hell I'd be suprised if any member of airspeed could jump there with their team canopies..

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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CURRENT USPA MEMBER

I'm OK w/ this one

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PROOF OF JUMP CURRENCY

Still good to go.

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CYPRES OR ASTRA AAD

Oops, that one prevents me from jumping there. But that is their choice.

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EXIT WEIGHT NOT TO EXCEED RESERVE LABEL

TSO weight or recommended weight? Can be two very different weights. I'm OK if it is TSO weight, but above the recommended.

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ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM EXIT WEIGHT 254 LBS.

The Javelin has been re-TSO'd to 300lbs at 170 kts (any Javelin w/ a S/N higher that 22,900). So this one doesn't make sense to me.

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WING LOADING FOR THOSE WITH LESS THAN 500 JUMPS NOT TO EXCEED 1.3

Well, it is their DZ. That is conservative for some, OK for others and too high a loading for the rest. Again, it is their DZ.

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ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM WING LOADING 1.5

I guess they will never have a boogie or anything. I'm a little over double that. That really limits who can jump there. Sounds like a NV DZ tactic to keep fun jumpers away. The DZO probably hooked in a Stiletto a long time ago and doesn't believe anyone should be over 1.5:1 because he can't do it. Oh well, I'll put this DZ on my list of DZ's to avoid.

Edit to add: I've had tandems wingloadings of over 1.3:1.
The staff's average jump per year:

183 jumps/year
93 jumps/year
61 jumps/year
67 jumps/year
67 jumps/year
43 jumps/year
54 jumps/year

They don't jump very much.

Hook

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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you couldn't jump there with what you fly now.

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WING LOADING FOR THOSE WITH LESS THAN 500 JUMPS NOT TO EXCEED 1.3

It's their business and we must respect their rules. I obviously would have to either jump a slightly larger canopy, loose a little weight or lie about my weight as I exceed their <500 jump wing loading by 0.1, but they have one restriction which I don't agree with. And that's the "Absolute Exit Weight of 254 lbs" restriction. I guess some one like AggieDave won't be able to jump there period even if he did borrow another canopy.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[sarge 0]

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Oh well, I'll put this DZ on my list of DZ's to avoid.

Yeah, besides they probably would only get a few loads up on their best day anyway!!! -By the time they get down to those who are eligible to jump...

Ugh, icky, Baaad Vibes!!!!

.

--
I'm done with the personally meaningful and philosophical sigs!!

[voodew1 0]

It is probably that they knew you were coming and didn't want you to stay! Can't say as I blame them--Just kidding see you when you make it back home---Voodew

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[Kris 0]

Well my exit weight is a bit above the 254 pound limit. I've also got a 170 on the way so there's a wing-loading over 1.5. Looks like I'm not jumping at their DZ any time soon.

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The staff's average jump per year:

183 jumps/year
93 jumps/year
61 jumps/year
67 jumps/year
67 jumps/year
43 jumps/year
54 jumps/year

They don't jump very much.

Yeah....I noticed that as well when I looked over their website. That struck me as really odd.

Kris

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[quade 3]

Yeah, but ya gotta love their sense of humor about their "other" staff members.

Oh, and 254 lb limit -- I think I have that figured out too. Cessna 182 DZ taking 4 jumpers to 10,000 ft.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[PhillyKev 0]

Looks to me from the photos that the DZO and a couple of the instructors are pushing that 254 pound limit themselves.

[Jethers203 0]

Dude, that is hard core!!!

I can see why they have that rule, but there should be exceptions. I have been to a lot of different DZ's and have never encountered rules like these. I looked at the website and it is like a damn rule book from the FAA. You being a D Licensed skydiver + the instructor ratings you earned should have been enough for them to know you are legit.

It could be that they don't want any hot shots to make them look bad. They obviously want all the chicks to themselves.

John D-24352

[ianmdrennan 2]

*scratches this DZ off the list of dz's to visit*

Performance Designs Factory Team

[dreamsville 0]

A number of coaches and friends with whom I have jumped would never be able to go to that DZ, based upon the 1.5 wingloading limit. One particular free fly world champion's weight, which I estimate at about 140, would come in at 1.55 with the Velocity 90 that he commonly flies. If he flys an 84, then it's even "worse". I don't know the people at that DZ, but can say that this person is a better canopy pilot than most of us, certainly including me.
|

I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

[sarge 0]

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Yeah, but ya gotta love their sense of humor about their "other" staff members.

WTF!!!! they got an e-mail address for a F~king GOLF CART !!?????

Ok,,, "Hey, Golf Cart (or do you prefer, 'Ms Cart') I can't wait to mount you and ride you like no jumper loading under 1:5 ever has!!! Oh, yeah, and I'm current, so no worries about 'landing off' but just the idea of snuggling into your seat gets me all 'wing loaded!!!!'.....

.

--
I'm done with the personally meaningful and philosophical sigs!!

[billvon 2,434]

>in those messages I applauded them for being safety-concious but
> thought that they could have incorporated a little flexibility into the
> policy.

I don't think you can have it both ways. If they are flexible at all, then everyone thinks they're an exception, and if the DZ disagrees they're a bunch of assholes. If there are no exceptions then they're a bunch of assholes.

I think we'll be seeing this more and more, as more people kill themselves under perfectly good (but tiny) canopies. A good example, I think, of where we can regulate ourselves or get regulated by someone else.

[Zenister 0]

exactly i dont think i've met a SINGLE FF competitor at Eloy that would meet that 1.5 wingloading..

some one need to hand them a lamp so they can come out of the dark ages..

but then again looking at the jump numbers / time in sport of their "highly qualified" instructors i wonder if they can spell Freefly?

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Our instructors & coaches have cumulatively over 4,800 skydives and 40 years of experience

funny, i guess to a wuffo those are impressive numbers for 6 people :rollseyes:

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[D22369 0]

That is even more pathetic than a DZ that requires a AAD to jump. They are off my list because I bought my canopy for the fun factor, and I aint gonna rent or buy a skybarge.

LOL
What do you expect from a bunch of hicks out in the middle of a corn field?.......hell.....they probably still jump rounds wearing old motorcycle helmets and military surplus jump boots.

but Its their DZ.......they can do what ever they wish..... fortunately for everyone their are other drop zones out there with a more progressive outlook.

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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That is even more pathetic than a DZ that requires a AAD to jump.

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CYPRES OR ASTRA AAD

They require AAD's too.

Hook