Hooknswoop 19 #1 July 3, 2003 There will be a proposal before the board to create a BSR requiring helmets for tandem Instructors and passengers (as well as AFFI's). 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? 2. Why or why not? 3. If yes, what type of helmet? 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? 5. Why or why not? 6. If yes, what type? 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? 8. If yes, how? 9. What rigs are you rated on? 10. How many tandem jumps do you have? My answers: 1. No 2. I have found it isn't that hard to keep from getting hit on the head while doing tandems. I don't feel it is necessary. Hard helmets are a bad idea and Frap hats are almost worthless and can make an impact worse. I have found that good communication with the student, not blocked by a helmet, can prevent the need for a helmet. 3. N/A 4. No 5. Same reasons as 2., above. The better they can hear me, the less anxiety they have. If they can't hear me or misunderstand me, it can cause more problems than wearing a helmet solves. 6. N/A 7. Yes 8. I used to have my passenger wear a Frap hat and I used to wear a Bone-head, open face hard helmet. 9. Eclipse, Vector, Sigma, USPA Tandem I/E 10. 899 Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 July 3, 2003 1. Yes. 2. Hey, protect my nogg'n, you never know what'll happen. I tend to wear one more often now, since being in a plane crash. 3. Bonehead Mindwarp 4. No 5. Why? A hardshell would hurt the TM and a frap hat is worst for your head then not wearing one. 6. n/a 7. No. 8. n/a 9. RWS (Vector/Sigma) 10. 25 as of 7-3-03 (goes up every weekend )--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpervali 1 #3 July 4, 2003 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? yes 2. Why or why not? A riser can slap your ear off, a bad landing can finish up with you on your head. 3. If yes, what type of helmet? rigid protec 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? I let them choose, if they wear over glasses goggles I strongly advise one. 6. If yes, what type? soft leather, better for the TM's keeping a nice smile 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? n/a 9. What rigs are you rated on? Strong 10. How many tandem jumps do you have? 700+ I've only jumped without some type of head protection 2 times out of 2700 jumps, but thats just me. jumpervali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iowa 0 #4 July 4, 2003 1. Usually. 2. It's a good place to keep a Dytter and on the Strongs it lessens the pain of a riser slap. 3. Frap. 4. Usually. 5. I guess since I was taught that it's supposed to protect my face. In hindsight it really didn't do much for me the one time I got bonked in the nose. Now I try and keep my head out of the way. 6. Frap. 7. Yes. 8. I'm more flexible on going without lately. 9. Vector, Strong. 10. 406. Keith ''Always do sober what you said you would do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.'' - Ernest Hemingway Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #5 July 4, 2003 Here at Raeford we have the following rules: Passenger wears a frap hat. TM wears a helmet one level harder. I wear my Pimp Mindwarp and my other TM's wear my two penis mindwarps or whatever other hard helmet they own. Reasons? I want my passengers wearing something on their heads that is not going to hurt me if they head-butt me. We wear hard helmets so that is we see the head-butt coming we can turn our heads and avoid scars on our chins like I have currently (under my goatee). I have done many a tandem with no helmet, but have no problem abiding by our school SOP. Besides, my helmet is totally cool. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
outofit 0 #6 July 4, 2003 totally rocks! flames and all dude! wish i had one! It is better to be dead and cool than alive and uncool! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GroundZero 0 #7 July 4, 2003 There will be a proposal before the board to create a BSR requiring helmets for tandem Instructors and passengers (as well as AFFI's). 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? Yes.. 2. Why or why not? to protect my hearing (love my music, but as I lose my hearing I lose my love for my music... huge crime! ) And to prevent the worst damage from riser slap. 3. If yes, what type of helmet? frap hat... can't check the drogue and such very well with a protec or other hard hat... the big container stops my head swivel. 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? Yes, frap hat... for their protection, (hearing and otherwise... makes a good puke bucket if needed on the ride up...I take care of the airplane owners too.) 5. Why or why not? See above... 6. If yes, what type? see above... 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? no 8. If yes, how? N/A 9. What rigs are you rated on? Strong, Vector, Eclipse 10. How many tandem jumps do you have? ~900 in the back and almost 300 up front. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #8 July 4, 2003 QuoteThere will be a proposal before the board to create a BSR requiring helmets for tandem Instructors and passengers (as well as AFFI's). 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? Yes 2. Why or why not? To mitigate riser slap and door frame slap. Also I do not want to get my ear sewn back on like Steve. 3. If yes, what type of helmet? Pro-Tec, but if I had the bucks, a pimped out Bonehead G3. 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? Yes 5. Why or why not? To keep them warm and a silly regulation 6. If yes, what type? Leather Frap hat or padded Cordura hat. 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? Yes, a decade ago 8. If yes, how? Painful PLF 9. What rigs are you rated on? Strong, Vector and Racer 10. How many tandem jumps do you have? 2,400 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nightjumps 1 #9 July 4, 2003 1. Yes, Nvertigo with two dytters 2. Protect my noggin 3. Nvertigo - open face with one Pro Dytter & one Pro Track 4. Yes - Always 5. To protect their noggin 6. Frap 7. No. 8. N/A 9. Eclipse and Vector soon 10. 25 P.S. I always adjust their harness leg straps to take the pressure off the artery, so they don't get the heaves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jeremyneas 0 #10 July 8, 2003 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? YES 2. Why or why not? THE EAR STORY CAUGHT MY ATTENTION A YEAR AGO, AND IT'S DZ POLICY 3. If yes, what type of helmet? FRAP HAT 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? IN THE WINTER YES, SUMMER NO 5. Why or why not? THE FRAP ACTS MORE AS A COMFORT THING IN THE COLD WINTER. UNLESS THERE WERE HARSH CIRCUMSTANCES, I DON'T SEE IT PROTECTING MUCH; IN THE SUMMER IT IS BEST TO LET THEM 'FEEL' THE SKYDIVE MORE. I'VE HAD NO PROBLEMS COMMUNICATING WITH OR WITHOUT A STUDENT HELMETED. 6. If yes, what type? IF I'M WEARIN A FRAP, THEY ARE. 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? 8. If yes, how? YES, MY FIRST YEAR I DID NOT WEAR A HELMET, THEN I GOT STRONG RATED AND GOT SCARED. THAT EAR STORY STILL FREAKS ME OUT. I BRING A PROTRACK WITH ME ALSO AND STUDENTS LOVE TO HEAR SPECIFICLY HOW FAST WE WENT AND ALL THAT OTHER INFO...FRAPPER IS GOOD TO CARRY THAT ALSO. 9. What rigs are you rated on? SIGMA/VECTOR2, STRONG, ECLIPSE 10. How many tandem jumps do you have? 400+ J.Neas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #11 July 9, 2003 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? No. 2. Why or why not? I've never come close to being hit by anything. 3. If yes, what type of helmet? N/A 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? No. 5. Why or why not? I don't have a supply of different sized soft helmets. Wearing a hard helmet poses a risk to me, and thus to them. 6. If yes, what type? N/A 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? No 8. If yes, how? N/A 9. What rigs are you rated on? Vector 10. How many tandem jumps do you have? 800It's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites John4455 0 #12 July 9, 2003 QuoteThere will be a proposal before the board to create a BSR requiring helmets for tandem Instructors and passengers (as well as AFFI's). 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? Frap hat 2. Why or why not? I tried hard helmets, its harder to deal with. I like to pull my goggles up after opening, and it is easier with a frap hat. 3. If yes, what type of helmet? 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? Frap hat 5. Why or why not? That should be obviouos 6. If yes, what type? 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? DZ policy says that tandem students wear frap hats. TI's wear hat or helmet. Its always been that way. 8. If yes, how? 9. What rigs are you rated on? Strong 10. How many tandem jumps do you have? 250 How do ya like it Johnny? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slotperfect 7 #13 July 9, 2003 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? Yes 2. Why or why not? General bump protection, riser-slap protection, light hearing protection, audible altimeter mount, warmth (Winter) 3. If yes, what type of helmet? Frap Hat 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? Yes 5. Why or why not? For them: general bump protection, light hearing protection, warmth (Winter), long hair containment. For me: moderate head-butt protection. 6. If yes, what type? Frap hat 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? Nope. I have kept the same one since I started. 8. If yes, how? N/A 9. What rigs are you rated on? Vector. Sigma, Strong Having just found out about the USPA proposal, I have not "ruminated" on it enough yet to have an opinion.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JeffGordon 0 #14 July 9, 2003 There will be a proposal before the board to create a BSR requiring helmets for tandem Instructors and passengers (as well as AFFI's). 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? Yes. 2. Why or why not? To protect my noggin. 3. If yes, what type of helmet? Frap. 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? Yes. 5. Why or why not? General DZ policy. 6. If yes, what type? Frap. 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? No. 8. If yes, how? 9. What rigs are you rated on? Strong 10. How many tandem jumps do you have? ~30 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sebazz1 2 #15 July 9, 2003 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? Depends. During the summer no. During the winter I wear a frap hat. Actually to add on to this, I have never had riser cover flappage on a Vector but on an Eclipse those riser covers will wack the shit out of you. So if I was jumping an Eclipse I would wear my frap hat all year. 2. Why or why not? Frap Hats keeps my ears warm during the winter. And they protect my ears if I happen to jump a Eclipse tandem rig. These days I happen to jump Vectors mainly. 3. If yes, what type of helmet? See above 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? If it's really cold in the winter I offer a frap hat to keep my students ears warm but other than that, no. 5. Why or why not? I have not had nor do I forsee a siutation where I or my student will wack their head. 6. If yes, what type? Frap hat sometimes... 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? No 8. If yes, how? Not applicable 9. What rigs are you rated on? Vector, Eclipse 10. How many tandem jumps do you have 1,000 approx... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bclark 0 #16 July 9, 2003 I wear a frap hat while doing tandems, and have my student do the same. I pay attention to my head while exiting the aircraft. I can still hear my Dytter in a frap hat. I don't have to worry about a student with a hard helmet breaking my nose. I can still communicate with my student fine under canopy. I usually ask them to turn their head toward me and I put my ear close to their mouth. I am rated on strong gear and am coming up on 400 tandems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crutch 0 #17 July 10, 2003 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? Only in the winter when the air is so cold it hurts my ears (one maybe two weekends here in Florida) 2. Why or why not? I don't normally jump with a helmet, why change. I only wear a helmet on freefly jumps and then only recently. I become uncomfortable and less aware with a helmet on, end of story. 3. If yes, what type of helmet? In the winter, I wear a frap hat. 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? Only for two reasons, they are wearing glasses and frap hats seem to help the over the glasses goggles stay on better. Wintertime, when the comfort of warm ears is needed. I must say here though that many times in the winter I will have a student wear one and I don't. 5. Why or why not? One reason foremost, people look so much different in pictures with a helmet on. There is very little added protection for the passenger, so make the picture look good. 6. If yes, what type? Frap hat or some sort of soft head cover. 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? No, and would hate to be forced to. 8. If yes, how? N/A 9. What rigs are you rated on? Vector/Sigma, Strong and Jumpshack 10. How many tandem jumps do you have? 2200 I haven't heard of this policy wanting to be implemented. Who has started this and for what reason? Has there been a tandem accident/fatality do to an instructor not wearing a helmet? I have been doing tandems for twelve years now with none of the issues I see listed in some of these threads. I have zero, I repeat ZERO tandem malfunctions in the over 220 hundred tandems I have done. I take great pride in this fact, but also realize that I pack 99% of the tandem rigs I jump. I also am very meticulious about how they are maintained. I have also done two tandems on demos into NFL football games. I have taken as many as fifty handicapped passengers (definitely special concerns, but still no helmet). With this kind of experience, I am not sure that I want to be forced to change something because someone has deemed it so. So as far as I am concerned, a helmet policy does nothing to enhance the safety of a tandem jump.blue skies, art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsbbreck 0 #18 July 10, 2003 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? YES 2. Why or why not? WE ARE REQUIRED TO WEAR SOME SORT OF HEAD PROTECTION. I AGREE WITH THIS RULE 3. If yes, what type of helmet? FRAP HAT, I'D WEAR A HARD HELMET BUT I FOUND IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO HEAR THE STUDENT. 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? ONLY IN THE WINTER TIME. 5. Why or why not? TO KEEP THEIR HEAD WARM 6. If yes, what type? FRAP HAT 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? NO 8. If yes, how? 9. What rigs are you rated on? STRONG AND VECTOR/SIGMA 10. How many tandem jumps do you have? 700David "Socrates wasn't killed because he had the answer.......he was killed because he asked the question." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsbbreck 0 #19 July 10, 2003 Quote2. I have found it isn't that hard to keep from getting hit on the head while doing tandems. I don't feel it is necessary. Hard helmets are a bad idea and Frap hats are almost worthless and can make an impact worse. I have found that good communication with the student, not blocked by a helmet, can prevent the need for a helmet. Quote5. Why? A hardshell would hurt the TM and a frap hat is worst for your head then not wearing one. Hooknswoop and Aggiedave, please explain how a frap hat is worse than nothing.David "Socrates wasn't killed because he had the answer.......he was killed because he asked the question." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #20 July 10, 2003 A helmet's design is to absorb an impact and spread it over a greater area. A frap hat's design takes an impact and concentrates it on a single point (the "ribs" of the frap hat) on your head. If you actually take a hit hard that's hard enough to cause injury, a frap hat will concentrate that hit and possibly make the injury worst.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peek 20 #21 July 10, 2003 > There will be a proposal before the board to create a BSR requiring helmets for tandem Instructors and passengers (as well as AFFI's). I do not support a BSR regarding this. First of all I am delighted to find that most instructors responding use head protection for themselves and their student. > 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? Yes 2. Why or why not? I can hit my head on something just like on any skydive. I almost always wear a helmet. 3. If yes, what type of helmet? ProTec 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? Yes. There have only been 3 times that I haven't, and 2 of those are when an acceptable size hat was not available. 5. Why or why not? They can hit their head on something. I have seen it happen to other instructors whose students did not wear one. 6. If yes, what type? Frappe Hat, not much protection, but at least something. 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? No, always been that. 8. If yes, how? 9. What rigs are you rated on? Strong Dual Hawk 10. How many tandem jumps do you have? About 800 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsbbreck 0 #22 July 11, 2003 QuoteA helmet's design is to absorb an impact and spread it over a greater area. A frap hat's design takes an impact and concentrates it on a single point (the "ribs" of the frap hat) on your head. If you actually take a hit hard that's hard enough to cause injury, a frap hat will concentrate that hit and possibly make the injury worst. I would be real interested in seeing any data you have to support your hypothesis on this point. I fail to see how having something with padding between your head and the object hitting it can be worse than nothing at all.David "Socrates wasn't killed because he had the answer.......he was killed because he asked the question." 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nightjumps 1 #9 July 4, 2003 1. Yes, Nvertigo with two dytters 2. Protect my noggin 3. Nvertigo - open face with one Pro Dytter & one Pro Track 4. Yes - Always 5. To protect their noggin 6. Frap 7. No. 8. N/A 9. Eclipse and Vector soon 10. 25 P.S. I always adjust their harness leg straps to take the pressure off the artery, so they don't get the heaves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeremyneas 0 #10 July 8, 2003 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? YES 2. Why or why not? THE EAR STORY CAUGHT MY ATTENTION A YEAR AGO, AND IT'S DZ POLICY 3. If yes, what type of helmet? FRAP HAT 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? IN THE WINTER YES, SUMMER NO 5. Why or why not? THE FRAP ACTS MORE AS A COMFORT THING IN THE COLD WINTER. UNLESS THERE WERE HARSH CIRCUMSTANCES, I DON'T SEE IT PROTECTING MUCH; IN THE SUMMER IT IS BEST TO LET THEM 'FEEL' THE SKYDIVE MORE. I'VE HAD NO PROBLEMS COMMUNICATING WITH OR WITHOUT A STUDENT HELMETED. 6. If yes, what type? IF I'M WEARIN A FRAP, THEY ARE. 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? 8. If yes, how? YES, MY FIRST YEAR I DID NOT WEAR A HELMET, THEN I GOT STRONG RATED AND GOT SCARED. THAT EAR STORY STILL FREAKS ME OUT. I BRING A PROTRACK WITH ME ALSO AND STUDENTS LOVE TO HEAR SPECIFICLY HOW FAST WE WENT AND ALL THAT OTHER INFO...FRAPPER IS GOOD TO CARRY THAT ALSO. 9. What rigs are you rated on? SIGMA/VECTOR2, STRONG, ECLIPSE 10. How many tandem jumps do you have? 400+ J.Neas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #11 July 9, 2003 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? No. 2. Why or why not? I've never come close to being hit by anything. 3. If yes, what type of helmet? N/A 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? No. 5. Why or why not? I don't have a supply of different sized soft helmets. Wearing a hard helmet poses a risk to me, and thus to them. 6. If yes, what type? N/A 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? No 8. If yes, how? N/A 9. What rigs are you rated on? Vector 10. How many tandem jumps do you have? 800It's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John4455 0 #12 July 9, 2003 QuoteThere will be a proposal before the board to create a BSR requiring helmets for tandem Instructors and passengers (as well as AFFI's). 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? Frap hat 2. Why or why not? I tried hard helmets, its harder to deal with. I like to pull my goggles up after opening, and it is easier with a frap hat. 3. If yes, what type of helmet? 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? Frap hat 5. Why or why not? That should be obviouos 6. If yes, what type? 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? DZ policy says that tandem students wear frap hats. TI's wear hat or helmet. Its always been that way. 8. If yes, how? 9. What rigs are you rated on? Strong 10. How many tandem jumps do you have? 250 How do ya like it Johnny? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slotperfect 7 #13 July 9, 2003 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? Yes 2. Why or why not? General bump protection, riser-slap protection, light hearing protection, audible altimeter mount, warmth (Winter) 3. If yes, what type of helmet? Frap Hat 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? Yes 5. Why or why not? For them: general bump protection, light hearing protection, warmth (Winter), long hair containment. For me: moderate head-butt protection. 6. If yes, what type? Frap hat 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? Nope. I have kept the same one since I started. 8. If yes, how? N/A 9. What rigs are you rated on? Vector. Sigma, Strong Having just found out about the USPA proposal, I have not "ruminated" on it enough yet to have an opinion.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JeffGordon 0 #14 July 9, 2003 There will be a proposal before the board to create a BSR requiring helmets for tandem Instructors and passengers (as well as AFFI's). 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? Yes. 2. Why or why not? To protect my noggin. 3. If yes, what type of helmet? Frap. 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? Yes. 5. Why or why not? General DZ policy. 6. If yes, what type? Frap. 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? No. 8. If yes, how? 9. What rigs are you rated on? Strong 10. How many tandem jumps do you have? ~30 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sebazz1 2 #15 July 9, 2003 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? Depends. During the summer no. During the winter I wear a frap hat. Actually to add on to this, I have never had riser cover flappage on a Vector but on an Eclipse those riser covers will wack the shit out of you. So if I was jumping an Eclipse I would wear my frap hat all year. 2. Why or why not? Frap Hats keeps my ears warm during the winter. And they protect my ears if I happen to jump a Eclipse tandem rig. These days I happen to jump Vectors mainly. 3. If yes, what type of helmet? See above 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? If it's really cold in the winter I offer a frap hat to keep my students ears warm but other than that, no. 5. Why or why not? I have not had nor do I forsee a siutation where I or my student will wack their head. 6. If yes, what type? Frap hat sometimes... 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? No 8. If yes, how? Not applicable 9. What rigs are you rated on? Vector, Eclipse 10. How many tandem jumps do you have 1,000 approx... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bclark 0 #16 July 9, 2003 I wear a frap hat while doing tandems, and have my student do the same. I pay attention to my head while exiting the aircraft. I can still hear my Dytter in a frap hat. I don't have to worry about a student with a hard helmet breaking my nose. I can still communicate with my student fine under canopy. I usually ask them to turn their head toward me and I put my ear close to their mouth. I am rated on strong gear and am coming up on 400 tandems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crutch 0 #17 July 10, 2003 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? Only in the winter when the air is so cold it hurts my ears (one maybe two weekends here in Florida) 2. Why or why not? I don't normally jump with a helmet, why change. I only wear a helmet on freefly jumps and then only recently. I become uncomfortable and less aware with a helmet on, end of story. 3. If yes, what type of helmet? In the winter, I wear a frap hat. 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? Only for two reasons, they are wearing glasses and frap hats seem to help the over the glasses goggles stay on better. Wintertime, when the comfort of warm ears is needed. I must say here though that many times in the winter I will have a student wear one and I don't. 5. Why or why not? One reason foremost, people look so much different in pictures with a helmet on. There is very little added protection for the passenger, so make the picture look good. 6. If yes, what type? Frap hat or some sort of soft head cover. 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? No, and would hate to be forced to. 8. If yes, how? N/A 9. What rigs are you rated on? Vector/Sigma, Strong and Jumpshack 10. How many tandem jumps do you have? 2200 I haven't heard of this policy wanting to be implemented. Who has started this and for what reason? Has there been a tandem accident/fatality do to an instructor not wearing a helmet? I have been doing tandems for twelve years now with none of the issues I see listed in some of these threads. I have zero, I repeat ZERO tandem malfunctions in the over 220 hundred tandems I have done. I take great pride in this fact, but also realize that I pack 99% of the tandem rigs I jump. I also am very meticulious about how they are maintained. I have also done two tandems on demos into NFL football games. I have taken as many as fifty handicapped passengers (definitely special concerns, but still no helmet). With this kind of experience, I am not sure that I want to be forced to change something because someone has deemed it so. So as far as I am concerned, a helmet policy does nothing to enhance the safety of a tandem jump.blue skies, art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsbbreck 0 #18 July 10, 2003 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? YES 2. Why or why not? WE ARE REQUIRED TO WEAR SOME SORT OF HEAD PROTECTION. I AGREE WITH THIS RULE 3. If yes, what type of helmet? FRAP HAT, I'D WEAR A HARD HELMET BUT I FOUND IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO HEAR THE STUDENT. 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? ONLY IN THE WINTER TIME. 5. Why or why not? TO KEEP THEIR HEAD WARM 6. If yes, what type? FRAP HAT 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? NO 8. If yes, how? 9. What rigs are you rated on? STRONG AND VECTOR/SIGMA 10. How many tandem jumps do you have? 700David "Socrates wasn't killed because he had the answer.......he was killed because he asked the question." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsbbreck 0 #19 July 10, 2003 Quote2. I have found it isn't that hard to keep from getting hit on the head while doing tandems. I don't feel it is necessary. Hard helmets are a bad idea and Frap hats are almost worthless and can make an impact worse. I have found that good communication with the student, not blocked by a helmet, can prevent the need for a helmet. Quote5. Why? A hardshell would hurt the TM and a frap hat is worst for your head then not wearing one. Hooknswoop and Aggiedave, please explain how a frap hat is worse than nothing.David "Socrates wasn't killed because he had the answer.......he was killed because he asked the question." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #20 July 10, 2003 A helmet's design is to absorb an impact and spread it over a greater area. A frap hat's design takes an impact and concentrates it on a single point (the "ribs" of the frap hat) on your head. If you actually take a hit hard that's hard enough to cause injury, a frap hat will concentrate that hit and possibly make the injury worst.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peek 20 #21 July 10, 2003 > There will be a proposal before the board to create a BSR requiring helmets for tandem Instructors and passengers (as well as AFFI's). I do not support a BSR regarding this. First of all I am delighted to find that most instructors responding use head protection for themselves and their student. > 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? Yes 2. Why or why not? I can hit my head on something just like on any skydive. I almost always wear a helmet. 3. If yes, what type of helmet? ProTec 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? Yes. There have only been 3 times that I haven't, and 2 of those are when an acceptable size hat was not available. 5. Why or why not? They can hit their head on something. I have seen it happen to other instructors whose students did not wear one. 6. If yes, what type? Frappe Hat, not much protection, but at least something. 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? No, always been that. 8. If yes, how? 9. What rigs are you rated on? Strong Dual Hawk 10. How many tandem jumps do you have? About 800 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsbbreck 0 #22 July 11, 2003 QuoteA helmet's design is to absorb an impact and spread it over a greater area. A frap hat's design takes an impact and concentrates it on a single point (the "ribs" of the frap hat) on your head. If you actually take a hit hard that's hard enough to cause injury, a frap hat will concentrate that hit and possibly make the injury worst. I would be real interested in seeing any data you have to support your hypothesis on this point. I fail to see how having something with padding between your head and the object hitting it can be worse than nothing at all.David "Socrates wasn't killed because he had the answer.......he was killed because he asked the question." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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slotperfect 7 #13 July 9, 2003 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? Yes 2. Why or why not? General bump protection, riser-slap protection, light hearing protection, audible altimeter mount, warmth (Winter) 3. If yes, what type of helmet? Frap Hat 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? Yes 5. Why or why not? For them: general bump protection, light hearing protection, warmth (Winter), long hair containment. For me: moderate head-butt protection. 6. If yes, what type? Frap hat 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? Nope. I have kept the same one since I started. 8. If yes, how? N/A 9. What rigs are you rated on? Vector. Sigma, Strong Having just found out about the USPA proposal, I have not "ruminated" on it enough yet to have an opinion.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffGordon 0 #14 July 9, 2003 There will be a proposal before the board to create a BSR requiring helmets for tandem Instructors and passengers (as well as AFFI's). 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? Yes. 2. Why or why not? To protect my noggin. 3. If yes, what type of helmet? Frap. 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? Yes. 5. Why or why not? General DZ policy. 6. If yes, what type? Frap. 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? No. 8. If yes, how? 9. What rigs are you rated on? Strong 10. How many tandem jumps do you have? ~30 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebazz1 2 #15 July 9, 2003 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? Depends. During the summer no. During the winter I wear a frap hat. Actually to add on to this, I have never had riser cover flappage on a Vector but on an Eclipse those riser covers will wack the shit out of you. So if I was jumping an Eclipse I would wear my frap hat all year. 2. Why or why not? Frap Hats keeps my ears warm during the winter. And they protect my ears if I happen to jump a Eclipse tandem rig. These days I happen to jump Vectors mainly. 3. If yes, what type of helmet? See above 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? If it's really cold in the winter I offer a frap hat to keep my students ears warm but other than that, no. 5. Why or why not? I have not had nor do I forsee a siutation where I or my student will wack their head. 6. If yes, what type? Frap hat sometimes... 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? No 8. If yes, how? Not applicable 9. What rigs are you rated on? Vector, Eclipse 10. How many tandem jumps do you have 1,000 approx... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bclark 0 #16 July 9, 2003 I wear a frap hat while doing tandems, and have my student do the same. I pay attention to my head while exiting the aircraft. I can still hear my Dytter in a frap hat. I don't have to worry about a student with a hard helmet breaking my nose. I can still communicate with my student fine under canopy. I usually ask them to turn their head toward me and I put my ear close to their mouth. I am rated on strong gear and am coming up on 400 tandems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crutch 0 #17 July 10, 2003 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? Only in the winter when the air is so cold it hurts my ears (one maybe two weekends here in Florida) 2. Why or why not? I don't normally jump with a helmet, why change. I only wear a helmet on freefly jumps and then only recently. I become uncomfortable and less aware with a helmet on, end of story. 3. If yes, what type of helmet? In the winter, I wear a frap hat. 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? Only for two reasons, they are wearing glasses and frap hats seem to help the over the glasses goggles stay on better. Wintertime, when the comfort of warm ears is needed. I must say here though that many times in the winter I will have a student wear one and I don't. 5. Why or why not? One reason foremost, people look so much different in pictures with a helmet on. There is very little added protection for the passenger, so make the picture look good. 6. If yes, what type? Frap hat or some sort of soft head cover. 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? No, and would hate to be forced to. 8. If yes, how? N/A 9. What rigs are you rated on? Vector/Sigma, Strong and Jumpshack 10. How many tandem jumps do you have? 2200 I haven't heard of this policy wanting to be implemented. Who has started this and for what reason? Has there been a tandem accident/fatality do to an instructor not wearing a helmet? I have been doing tandems for twelve years now with none of the issues I see listed in some of these threads. I have zero, I repeat ZERO tandem malfunctions in the over 220 hundred tandems I have done. I take great pride in this fact, but also realize that I pack 99% of the tandem rigs I jump. I also am very meticulious about how they are maintained. I have also done two tandems on demos into NFL football games. I have taken as many as fifty handicapped passengers (definitely special concerns, but still no helmet). With this kind of experience, I am not sure that I want to be forced to change something because someone has deemed it so. So as far as I am concerned, a helmet policy does nothing to enhance the safety of a tandem jump.blue skies, art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsbbreck 0 #18 July 10, 2003 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? YES 2. Why or why not? WE ARE REQUIRED TO WEAR SOME SORT OF HEAD PROTECTION. I AGREE WITH THIS RULE 3. If yes, what type of helmet? FRAP HAT, I'D WEAR A HARD HELMET BUT I FOUND IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO HEAR THE STUDENT. 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? ONLY IN THE WINTER TIME. 5. Why or why not? TO KEEP THEIR HEAD WARM 6. If yes, what type? FRAP HAT 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? NO 8. If yes, how? 9. What rigs are you rated on? STRONG AND VECTOR/SIGMA 10. How many tandem jumps do you have? 700David "Socrates wasn't killed because he had the answer.......he was killed because he asked the question." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsbbreck 0 #19 July 10, 2003 Quote2. I have found it isn't that hard to keep from getting hit on the head while doing tandems. I don't feel it is necessary. Hard helmets are a bad idea and Frap hats are almost worthless and can make an impact worse. I have found that good communication with the student, not blocked by a helmet, can prevent the need for a helmet. Quote5. Why? A hardshell would hurt the TM and a frap hat is worst for your head then not wearing one. Hooknswoop and Aggiedave, please explain how a frap hat is worse than nothing.David "Socrates wasn't killed because he had the answer.......he was killed because he asked the question." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #20 July 10, 2003 A helmet's design is to absorb an impact and spread it over a greater area. A frap hat's design takes an impact and concentrates it on a single point (the "ribs" of the frap hat) on your head. If you actually take a hit hard that's hard enough to cause injury, a frap hat will concentrate that hit and possibly make the injury worst.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #21 July 10, 2003 > There will be a proposal before the board to create a BSR requiring helmets for tandem Instructors and passengers (as well as AFFI's). I do not support a BSR regarding this. First of all I am delighted to find that most instructors responding use head protection for themselves and their student. > 1. Tandem Instructors, do you wear a helmet on tandem jumps? Yes 2. Why or why not? I can hit my head on something just like on any skydive. I almost always wear a helmet. 3. If yes, what type of helmet? ProTec 4. Do you have your passenger wear a helmet? Yes. There have only been 3 times that I haven't, and 2 of those are when an acceptable size hat was not available. 5. Why or why not? They can hit their head on something. I have seen it happen to other instructors whose students did not wear one. 6. If yes, what type? Frappe Hat, not much protection, but at least something. 7. Have you changed your helmet policy for tandems? No, always been that. 8. If yes, how? 9. What rigs are you rated on? Strong Dual Hawk 10. How many tandem jumps do you have? About 800 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsbbreck 0 #22 July 11, 2003 QuoteA helmet's design is to absorb an impact and spread it over a greater area. A frap hat's design takes an impact and concentrates it on a single point (the "ribs" of the frap hat) on your head. If you actually take a hit hard that's hard enough to cause injury, a frap hat will concentrate that hit and possibly make the injury worst. I would be real interested in seeing any data you have to support your hypothesis on this point. I fail to see how having something with padding between your head and the object hitting it can be worse than nothing at all.David "Socrates wasn't killed because he had the answer.......he was killed because he asked the question." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
