Low Profile silver D VS. Soft Pad Reserve handle

[mraad 0]

I have a Javelin Odyssey, Sabre2 135 loaded about 1.39 and have about 650 jumps. I mainly freefly, RW is secondary. I am thinking about replacing my large D silver reserve handle with EITHER a Low Profile Reserve Handle or a a reserve soft pad handle. I have heard of incidents that in a violent spinning malfunction that people had trouble reaching their reserve handle and was only able to get just a couple of fingers into the silver D Reserve Handle just to cut it away . . . knowing this, I would lean toward the Low Profile Reserve Handle. On the other hand, I also know that during a freefly or any jump for that matter, there is more risk associated with a Low Profile Reserve Handle versus a reserve soft pad handle because the Low Profile Reserve Handle is simply bigger with a different surface area that seems that it could get 'caught' more. I do jump w/ a cypress.

Any opinions/experience on this? How are pulls with a soft pad? Thanks.

[Samurai136 0]

The pull on a soft reserve handle feels like the cutaway handle. If you can't get a grip on a cutaway pad... you see where I'm going with this.

IMO you are probably not jumping a canopy or wingloading that presents a risk of 'violent high-G line twists' and shouldn't have a problem using your emergency procedures w/ soft handles.

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[billvon 2,426]

>knowing this, I would lean toward the Low Profile Reserve Handle.

I would agree. The low profile handle is less likely to get snagged than a standard D-handle, but has none of the problems of a soft handle (like a difficult pull.)

[katecooper 0]

My new Odyssey has the low profile silver handle and I REALLY like it. Easy to locate, identify, and (in theory at least) pull. Difficult to unintentionally dislodge. Good stuff.
kate

[rigging65 0]

I think this really comes down to risk management.

Do you think there is a higher risk of your handle getting snagged and dumping your reserve, or do you think it's more likely you'll get into a position where you'll have difficulty getting to your handle and getting a firm grip?

IMO, you're more likely to run into the snag issue, but that's only my humble little opinion. Incidentally, Bill Booth did tests a while back that showed the grip strength needed to use a soft pillow was simply not that high. I forget the numbers, but I bet you'd find them if you did a search on "soft pillows".

Every choice we make in this sport is about stacking the odds in your favor as best you can...it's all risk management...make your choices accordingly.

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[johnny1488 1]

Quote

I have heard of incidents that in a violent spinning malfunction that people had trouble reaching their reserve handle and was only able to get just a couple of fingers into the silver D Reserve Handle just to cut it away . . .

I hope you would give cutting away a thought before you go for the silver in a high speed spinner!

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[ematteo 0]

Any type of handle can get snagged.

See photos (attached) from the September N. CA freefly bigway attempts. The jumper was wearing a rig with a soft reserve handle. His handle got jarred during the exit and deployed him out of the chunk.

Also, last year one of the Guano guys managed to tag (and accidentally pull) the pillow cutaway of his teammate's rig during a dive. Neither knew until deployment time...

There is no perfect "snag-proof" solution. I like my mini D-ring.

Evan

[billvon 2,426]

>IMO, you're more likely to run into the snag issue . . .

For freeflyers I'd agree, but I'd rather have three premature deployments on my reserve than one instance of where I couldn't get my reserve out when I needed it.

[sundevil777 94]

Ah yes, to pillow or not to pillow, that is the question... (often asked).

I do not pillow for either the cutaway or reserve, and I like the low profile shown in the attachment. I got mine through Velocity Sports (Infinity), I've heard that it looks the same as Racers have offered/still offer. I like it much better than other triangular shaped alternative handles that I have seen. The small handle was not yet actually installed in the picture, just placed in the pocket, that is why the cable is exposed.

It sure was easy to pull both of these a couple weeks ago.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[arlo 0]

i think having a different texture also helps to identify the reserve handle. sounds kinda silly, but being able to differentiate the metal handle from jumpsuit versus differentiating cordura handle from fabric jumpsuit is stacking another card (albeit small) in one's favor. don't know if you wear gloves or not, but just close your eyes and grab both. metal is slick and easy to distinguish. i know that you should look, but you're not always given that luxury of seeing it even when you look.

i also like being able to (as you stated) stick my thumb into it because that could be my last attempt. the act of 'grabbing' the pillow may not always include just the pillow. it's possible to grab jumpsuit/clothing as well as the pillow, so while you're trying to get your reserve out, you could be trying to undress yourself at the same time. even if you spend a split-second re-grabbing the pillow, that split-second could cost you dearly. again, sounds small, but another card not stacked against ya.

just my opinion...

good luck with your choice. :)

arlo

[bch7773 0]

I would go low profile silver handle. Its your last chance... it would really suck if you were wearing gloves, and you tried to deploy your shirt at 500 feet or something. Unlikely? yeah, but I'd just personally feel safer with a metal reserve handle. But it does have its cons.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[hookitt 0]

The Soft handle on that rig is a Pipe. The top of the handle is fairly exposed. Looking at the video over and over, It appeared the handle was pushed out by the elbow of another jumper on Exit.

The handles velcro has been replaced with a larger piece. The pocket the handle sits in is now sewn smaller. The handle is much more secure.

After witnessing that deployment from just outside the trail plane and reviewing how it happened, I'd be hard pressed to argue in favor of the soft handle over the low profile handle in the case of the original poster.

It does depend on the type of rig though. If it's the Javelin, I'd say get the low profile handle.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Aviatrr 0]

I have had a few cutaways with a soft reserve handle(I do not use an RSL), and have had absolutely no problem pulling the reserve. People say that a big danger with the pillow reserve handle is that it can be tucked under the harness if your harness shifts violently during a spinning mal....well, haven't had that problem either, but the highest wing loading I have chopped was 1.8...might have happened at a higher loading. I think the key here is harness fit and adjustment. My harness is built for me, and I adjust it very tight(leg straps and chest strap). It only shifted an inch or two during my worst spinner.

Mike

[riggerrob 558]

The better soft handles are not really "soft" any more. With all those plastic stiffeners and metal pipes they are difficult to roll under.
That being said, I still prefer old-school metal ripcord handles. Maybe that is because I suffered a main malfunction back in 1979, pulled the silver handle and lived. Since then I have pulled 17 more silver handles and lived.
Maybe I am just too old to re-train.
The perfect metal ripcord handle is just big enough that you can shove your thumb - and a winter glove - into it.

[andy2 0]

i.e. very low profile?

I have a large D ring on my rig and am thinking about switching to low profile. I really am not even considering switching to pillow reserve until my first malfunction when I can re-evaluate with a little experience the risk balancing factor, etc etc.

---------------------------------------------
let my inspiration flow,
in token rhyme suggesting rhythm...

[bigbearfng 16]

How many/if any/ reserve rides have you had?
Personally after just one....I'd never go with anything except a nice, easy to grab silver D .....

[Aviatrr 0]

Quote

How many/if any/ reserve rides have you had?
Personally after just one....I'd never go with anything except a nice, easy to grab silver D .....

Funny thing....after half a dozen myself, I wouldn't go with anything but a pillow type reserve for a freefall rig. CReW rig, another story..

Mike

[freeflybella 0]

I've had 3 mals. 2 spinners (1 violent and 1 easy) and 1 total.

For each of the spinners the cutaway pillow wasn't an issue - once you decide to chop, peeling and pulling is generally a non-issue.

However on the violent spinner - it took me forever to get my hands up to the pad and then another eternity to get the cables released. When I finally did (no rsl), I was so frickin' thankful to have a d-ring to grab and yank.

cutaway pad, reserve lo-pro d-ring is my vote.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[andrewstewart 0]

Quote

I have had a few cutaways with a soft reserve handle(I do not use an RSL), and have had absolutely no problem pulling the reserve. People say that a big danger with the pillow reserve handle is that it can be tucked under the harness if your harness shifts violently during a spinning mal....well, haven't had that problem either, but the highest wing loading I have chopped was 1.8...might have happened at a higher loading. I think the key here is harness fit and adjustment. My harness is built for me, and I adjust it very tight(leg straps and chest strap). It only shifted an inch or two during my worst spinner.

Mike

I've cut away from two spinners, both violent, and both using a pad. No problem in either case...

[flyangel2 2]

Quote

Quote

How many/if any/ reserve rides have you had?
Personally after just one....I'd never go with anything except a nice, easy to grab silver D .....

Funny thing....after half a dozen myself, I wouldn't go with anything but a pillow type reserve for a freefall rig. CReW rig, another story..

Mike

I too have a soft reserve handle and haven't had a problem finding it during a spinning malfunction. I looked at the handle, and I knew were it was.
Over and over the "what if's" have been discussed. It comes down to a personal choice.
I agree with the CReW rig, with mine I have a handle.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[jumpgod 0]

jumped with a hellwedge reserve handle for around 150 jumps until started freeflying. foot docks near handle make me nervous so i got a silver soft handle which resembles a cut-a-way handle. feel confident that can use just fine. also use an RSL.

my bet would be with the pillow not the wedge. what you see is what you get. peel and pull... come home safe.

[mantebi 0]

Imagine yourself colliding with someone in freefall and being near unconscious? You re instinct may be to pull your reserve. You can’t see well through the blood in your goggles. You’re terrified. You re disoriented and can’t distinguish left from right. You grab your cutaway handle thinking it’s your reserve. You pull it and wait ….bang your cypress fires, or splat! - no cypress fire!

There are also scenarios under other kinds of malfunction (other than a spinning one) that disorientation might cause you to pull the reserve handle before pulling the cutaway. Disorientation and panic are common problems.

The advantage of the metal d-ring is that it looks and feels completely different than your pillow cutaway, which can greatly reduce the chances of pulling out of sequence if disoriented or in panic.

If you decide to stay with metal, make sure the Velcro is in good condition and that the handle is securely in place before you leave the aircraft. Avoid letting inexperienced jumpers take grips on your harness. Avoid jumping with less experienced people who can’t control their movement in freefall.

However, two soft handles work great, and are the trend for a lot of people.
Your rig will be more secure from snagging in the aircraft and in freefall. Also, if you have a hard opening with weird g-forces going through the harness, the pillow reserve is less-likely than a d-ring to pop free from the webbing of the harness.

You need to take some precautions and get some extra training before going over to the soft reserve. For one, I recommend that you keep your cutaway color red for the rest of your jump career and never change that. You were more than likely trained on red.
I also recommend a silver-colored, soft reserve handle. This way you are not changing the ingrained color coding that you drilled as a student.

Make sure you practice peeling the reserve ripcord before pulling the handle. Let someone hold the reserve cable and pin in place so you don’t accidentally fire the reserve, or practice several times before a scheduled reserve repack.

It is also important that you retrain your practice rip cord pulls to include the action of peeling the Velcro free before pulling. Pulling first and not peeling can cause a severely hard reserve pull.

To ingrain the correct procedure I speak the steps out loud while I’m doing them. For example.

1 deploy main stable | 2. Look up 1….2….3…. 3. | 3. oh poo-poo a Malfunction | 4. Arch, right hand on red, left hand on silver | 5. peel and pull red…clear 6. peel and pull silver !!

I know it sounds really lame to practice that, but believe me, race car drivers, pilots, etc all are trained in that manner. It really programs them correctly and insures that they do what’s right in an real emergency.


Finally just make sure you are clear on how to inspect the reserve cable before every jump. Since you no longer can see the terminal ball of the reserve cable, you need to learn how to continue to inspect it concealed by the pillow. Ask your rigger for help.

Good luck

[mouth 0]

My Odyssey came with a matching purple reserve and cutaway pillow. After I broke my arm during a jump I opted to get a low profile D ring because even if I'm hurt I can easily hook either thumb into the ring and save myself. Just my opinion, but I'd have had a problem pulling the pillow at that angle if I had to cut away when I broke my arm.

--
Hot Mama
At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit.

[jrpayne 0]

I swear by my pillow. I saw a video of my self where my buddy actually had all of his fingers wrapped around my D ring on my old rig. I feel way safer with two pillows. If you can pull one pillow you should be able to pull two.

[jaaska 0]

Quote

I swear by my pillow. I saw a video of my self where my buddy actually had all of his fingers wrapped around my D ring on my old rig. I feel way safer with two pillows. If you can pull one pillow you should be able to pull two.

Kind of the point of having silver D. If - for a reason or another - you cannot cut away, but you would be able to pull the silver D reserve handle, it could just save you... Just my .02 c...