Belly Skills

[Dagny 0]

Okay, so I'm doing solo jumps now while working towards my A license. Since I can't jump with others (except coaches), what belly skills should I be working on in the air?

I've been doing back and front loops, barrel rolls, and turns while holding a heading. It doesn't get boring, but I'm ready to try some new things - especially if it will help me fly better with other people.

Any suggestions?

Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic.
-Salvador Dali

[CrazyIvan 0]

You're doing the right thing, you can also ask a Coach to do some 'docking' jumps with, since docking is also on your card.

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[christelsabine 1]

this is exactly what i did much too long, too many jumps just playing in the air. and suddenly: it became boring! it surely wl come if you do not look for progress in skydiving.. do 1by1 jumps, best is with you coaches or instructors...after i while and a certain number of jumps, ask other skydivers with similar levels, start with simple 2way jumps. Surely you will discover what i did: unexpected, even much more experienced jumpers like to be your partners in the air, this is what i learned many times. on the other hand, these solo jumps over a longer time period trained something well: the awareness in the air, appraisal of all what is happening around you, and if its just watching your colleagues in the air, which in fact, for a beginner is a discovery!! take your time and enjoy all you do, n always blueskies, chrisel

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Chrisky 0]

Well, you need a reference to move on, to see if you're falling in place, how your track is etc.
That would be a coach. Try to get your rating to go with others quickly, because then you will get that reference, too. Once you can do that, there are tons of drills you can do to improve your belly skills.
One thing you can try on your own immediately is doing fast, aggressive turns and immediate stops, which might help increase your overall awareness and control.
Like i.e. try a really fast 360s.
That's safer on your own and better for a coaches chin...

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[AggieDave 6]

If you can, I would highly recommend getting some Skydive U. coaching. They have some of the best training programs in the world, find a SDU coach that is respected for his/her ability to teach it well and do some jumps with them. I've personally witnessed a good handful of jumpers at my DZ go through the SDU program and come out flying better then people with over twice as many jumps as they have.

Good luck!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[sundevil777 94]

Quote

Since I can't jump with others (except coaches),

That is sooo wrong.

Some aspects of the good old days were actually very much better than nowadays

If someone wants to help you out they should be able to do so. I could understand needing to get your instructor's OK - to approve your 2 way partner who doesn't have a coach rating, but this is too much.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

I agree. I made plenty of jumps with others before getting my 'a' license. As long as the person is experienced, there should be no problem with you going up with them. Granted, I didn't make these jumps in Sebastian, I do not know what their policy is. But, Deland and Z-hills didn't have a problem with it. Have you asked in Sebastian? Did they tell you no?

As far as what you can work on, I would say tracking (steep, flat), and back flying, make sure you are tracking perpendicular to the line of flight. Get comfortable flailing in the sky and returning to belly to earth quickly and consistantly. And those fast turns and stops will be good, too. I'd do a jump with you, but I am told before you get your 'a' license, that if you want to do a jump with someone you should have at least 100 jumps combined. I only have 45.

What do you have left on that 'a' card? Have you taken your packing class? I'd get that done right away, and just work on landing near the target on every jump, make sure you log it and get it signed off. I had a few things signed off here n there (packing, landings, some riser turns, etc under canopy) and then went to z-hills and finished my card in a day with Lori (I think) as a coach. She's great!

Angela.

[jumperconway 0]

You should be able to jump with experienced jumpers with no problem. Solo's are only good for getting over your fears and getting stable. Unfortuately you need a reference point other than the ground unless you're just practicing your track. Good luck! Fly safe.Conway

[dgskydive 0]

One word!
TRACKING!!!!!!!!!
It will save your life someday!

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

***Well, you need a reference to move on, to see if you're falling in place, how your track is etc.
________________________________________________

Not really true. You can tell if you are moving across the sky or not. I did a lot of tracking dives by myself when I first started. You can tell if you are going straight or if you are having problems with your body postion and such. Granted you can reference it a lot easier of you are with someone else, but you can still get the practice. Any bit of practice helps before you start jumping with others. Tracking is one the most important tools IMHO for newer jumpers, and for the saftey of the others they will soon be jumping with.

Dom

[sducoach 0]

Quote

Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Well, you need a reference to move on, to see if you're falling in place, how your track is etc.
________________________________________________

Not really true.

Sorry but Chrisky has it right. Without some form of reference you may "think" you know however I can show you videos of "experts" falling anything but straight down. Tracking? Then videos of experienced "divers" who "think" they are tracking. Until...... they have a reference point near to them such as a coach or space ball.

Blues,

J.E.

James 4:8

[Squeak 17]

no one has address her question about jumping solo.
The skils you are practicing at the right ones, also try tracking (90d off jump run) try relaxing and maintaining heading on a couple of jumps. Do nothing but relax in a stable freefall, then move one arm, or leg or hand and see what it does to you body position.
As soon as you can afford it get coached to a point where you can jump with others, the biggest problem I found was not getting bored, it was developing bad habbits, the sooner you can jump with someone else the better, but whatever you do, just relax and have fun with it.
Try doing unstable exits and recvoering, they can be loads of fun

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[ZoneRat 0]

Here's a few ideas:

Pick a heading and assume the deployment position. Hold it for several seconds... See if you can hold that position without effecting a change in your heading. If you can, you will greatly reduce the probability of line twists on deployment. And that's a good thing.
See if you can turn with just your legs.

See if you can perform individual maneuvers (left 360, right 360, backloop, left 360, right 360, backloop) in freefall in 18 seconds or less. (If you do, make sure and log it. It works towards your B licence... better yet, get it on video!).

Here's a fun exit. Climb out with your back to the wind. Launch in a deeply arched delta... with legs straight and arms swept to your sides at a 45° ish angle. On the launch, try to push your head back into the wind in this delta. If you do it right you'll do a pretty little back-flip layout. (later, when you're really comfy, you can do this on your fun-jump hop n' pops... It's a crowd pleaser).

Outside of that... I'd chime in with the others that recommend coached jumps. Especially SDU coached jumps. I can think of nothing you can do that will help prepare you for flying with others than that. (Ok. Maybe coached tunnel time).

Whatever you do: Be safe. Have fun, and consult your instructors before trying new stuff.

“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.”

[bch7773 0]

I would say definitely practice your A-license check dive a couple times if you are doing your solo. Ask your instructors what it is, but from what I remember, it was right 360, left 360, backflip, then find and dock on the instructor.

also, practice doing different exits... if you jump outta an otter, practice doing a rear float, front float, bombout, etc. its much nicer to perfect your exits now, then screw up an exit when you are jumping with other people.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[Dagny 0]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I'm going to Sebastian this weekend and want to make some good jumps. I'll try some of the things you all listed and maybe I'll even do a coach jump if I can afford it.

Angela - been having some trouble getting things signed off on my card. (Haven't gotten anyone's attention long enough to really go over it with me) I have two things signed right now - the 3500 ft HnP and the stand up landing. All the rest is blank. I think I need someone to look over my logbook and the card and help me get it together.

In the meantime, I definitely want to try some fast 360s (using a knee and arm to get speed, right?) and continue practicing multiple maneuvers on heading.

Oh, and I appreciate the exit suggestion by Zone Rat...always looking for a new way to get out the door!

By the way, what are float exits?

Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic.
-Salvador Dali

[D22369 0]

on the solo's........TRACK.....yer ass off, perfecting it is more important than some believe..... other than pulling, it is the only life saving skill you will use all the time..... (except solo's of course)

I dont know how many jumps you have, but you should be doing at least two ways, solo's will not teach you if you are backsliding/ wandering/ or changing your fall rate unintentionally.

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[trumpetfish 0]

Quote

Angela - been having some trouble getting things signed off on my card. (Haven't gotten anyone's attention long enough to really go over it with me) I have two things signed right now - the 3500 ft HnP and the stand up landing. All the rest is blank. I think I need someone to look over my logbook and the card and help me get it together.

Hi Dagny
I can appreciate what your saying here. I found a good way was to have a chat first thing in the morning with an instructor and explain how you'd really like to get such and such signed off today. Then you can approach the same person throughout the day. I think there is a slight element of "we don't want you to progress TOO fast" which must be a good thing really. There's plenty of time. just hang in there and nail those landings!

• Quote

[riggerrob 558]

Two other skills you can practice by yourself are fast-fall and slow-fall.
Ask a "relative work" (old terminology) or "formation skydiving" (new terminology) coach to brief you on the basics of fast-fall and slow-fall.
Fast-fall (the old term is RW stable) is basically an exaggerated arch with your feet tucked into the wind-shadow created by your legs. Fast-fall is handy when descending on formations or when staying level with fat bastards.
Experiment with elbow position to see which position allows you arch the most across your chest. Some of us stiff old b##s can arch more if we push our hands above our heads.
The latest fast-fall technique (ala. Arizona Airspeed) involves tucking your fore arms under your chest. Again ask a coach to explain the finer points.

Slow fall is at the other end of the scale. De-arching (aka. dead spider) is used to slow when approaching formations or to stay level with "floaty bastards." Clearly you are going to need a wide range of fall rates if you want to jump with a wide range of skydivers.
Slow-fall starts with cupping air by rolling your shoulders forward and bending forward slightly at the waist. yes, it is an unstable position and yes it is a good idea to have a coach brief you on the finer points. Most of the finer points are related to cupping air evenly, so you don't slide under the formation.
Once you get comfortable at slow-fall, then ask a coach to explain how to "shape" your slow-fall into a track.

[loudtom 5]

Find some great people to hang out with at your home dz and they will probably let you lurk thier dives. I spent my first summer flying around and under and over, having them watch me spin on my back, all in the first summer. It got to the point where they said either join us or start manifesting as a solo, ok...
Thanks to Eric, and little Stu, and Doug, for that first year of lurking... I miss those times. Simple.
Easy. No points for me on most dives...But I learned how to fly. No jokes please!!!
Have fun,

tom #90 #54 #08 and now #5 with a Bronze :-)

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Missy, You can get lots of stuff knocked off in a single dive (riser turns, canopy control, landing near target, etc), you just need to let someone know what you're doing first. If you appear determined to get the card taken care of, you'll get their attention and get things signed off. I didn't get my card done at Sebastian, I did it at Deland and Z-hills. But, I found the only way to get it done was to annoy the hell out of an instructor in Deland, haha. Then, when I went to z-hills, I just needed someone to go over spotting, some aircraft stuff, and I did a coach jump for my second dock dive. When I arrived in the morning I made it very clear I wanted it signed off that day, and I spoke to one instructor that didn't seem to have the time/motivation to help me, so I found another one that did. Do your packing class, and have someone watch and sign of canopy control. Practice your landings and try to land w/in 60 meters of target. Find an instructor that will help you:)

See ya 2moro!
Angela.

[dgskydive 0]

***You can tell if you are going straight or if you are having problems with your body postion and such. Granted you can reference it a lot easier of you are with someone else
__________________________________________________

I said it's better with somebody else for sure, but don't tell me you can't tell how your body position is and if you are turning or not. Not doubting your experience and I am very sure you have the video. Just saying that she CAN work on the basic skill.

Dom

[BBKid 0]

It's also a good idea to start flying in the mantis position, if you aren't already. This is the basic position used by experienced belly fliers, as it makes it easier to dock on formations, and makes arm and leg turns more responsive.

**DISCLAIMER** I've only just cleared student status, so take my advice with a pinch of salt, this is just what I was told I should be doing for my first few jumps off student status.

Ask an instructor to give you a more detailed brief, but in short:

lie on your stomach like you're watching tv, with your hands under your chin, elbows on the ground, and legs crossed behind your back. Uncross your legs and point your toes, then drop your forearms to the floor. Try to hold this position in the air, still arching, albeit slightly dearched at the knees. Like everything in skydiving, it's easier if you relax, just don't be tempted to watch your alti all the way down!

Nick
---------------------------
"I've pierced my foot on a spike!!!"

[MikeTJumps 4]

I suggest you get ahold of the book "The Art of Freefall Relative Work" by Pat works. That will give you a lot of insight into belly flying.

http://www.works-words.com/

.

Mike Turoff
Instructor Examiner, USPA
Co-author of Parachuting, The Skydiver's Handbook

[christelsabine 1]

Quote

By the way, what are float exits

;

tried sometimes, like it, even it causes blue fat marks on my lower arm (right one): you just go to the door, catch with you hand (right one?) outside/above the exit door, there is a metall grasp or a metal bar, depents on plane's type,, hold tight (very, very tight, first time i'be been simply blowing away), step out backwards, hold tight with the 2nd hand on this grasp, then (when beginning with floaters): with one leg move like "out-in-out" and at last "out" you just let yourself fall into the relative wind backwards with good power and quickly arch, you can see the plane (still love this pic so much!) disappearing over you, you quickly can view your rw-partner, it's a great and easy way to exit...ok, this is my simple memory, just a simple explanation, but try, you wl love it.... don't hurry, take your time for that and look forward to next jump... blueskies, christel

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[skr 1]

>Since I can't jump with others (except coaches),
>what belly skills should I

Even more important than the freefall stuff is learning
how to be a parachute jumper.

Learn
- how to pack and maintain your gear
- how to watch the weather and jumprun and spot
- how to fly your canopy - toggle technique, traffic
management, large scale thinking ahead.

That's stuff you need on every jump regardless of
whatever you do in freefall and it takes some determined
focus to learn it.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=42

has some stuff about that and

http://indra.net/~bdaniels/ftw/

has some other stuff down at the bottom of the page.



Also, people don't need to be actual rated coaches.
If the local S&TA thinks some experienced jumper is
a good influence on students he can write a waiver
for that person to jump with post AFF people.

In the long run I think it's better for people to get the
coach rating so that lot's of people go through the
process and can give feedback to USPA on how to
improve the program.

People seem to take that coach rating as something
handed down from on high and cast in stone, but it's
actually just a bunch of jumpers trying to come up with
something better than taking people to the end of AFF
and dropping them in the black void to fend for themselves.

Skr