New Poster, New to the sport...

[Cojimar 0]

I'm an 18 year old student from Northern Indiana. I got into skydiving because my brother and his wife have combined over 1500 jumps and some change.

I'm doing static line and have 11 jumps but will probably change over to AFF this summer.

What's some of the advantages of AFF vs. Static Line and Vice Versa?

[benny 0]

hi, i'm fairly new to the sport, and therefore you should definitely take my advice witha grain of salt... but imho I would switch to AFF as soon as possible. aside from tunnel time, it seems to be the quickest way to progress into the sport

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[skygod7777 0]

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What's some of the advantages of AFF vs. Static Line and Vice Versa?

other than you get more freefall time in AFF at the begining, i'm not sure that there are any advantages. you get more 1 on 1 instructing for you first levels i guess. but after that, you become, like a catagory G or something like that and are at the same place that you would be if you did static line, just without as much time under canopy.

other than those, you just spend a lot more money.

but that's just my opinino

later

[pilotdave 0]

In my very stupid and worthless opinion:

AFF, learn to skydive. Static line, learn to fall out of the plane. Ok, static line does have the advantage that you'll be able to tell people you learned the old fashioned way.

Lots of people like static line. I've never even seen a static line jump in real life. I think the only reason it's still done is that it's cheaper for the dropzones.

Seen videos of static line jumps. 5 students, one jumpmaster. Each student leaves the plane, flails around for a second, and disappears. The JM has moved on to the next student as soon as the previous one has left. What do they learn? Arch?

AFF will better prepare you for real world skydiving.

Dave

[bch7773 0]

search the forums... there have been many discussions over this...
but bottom line, aff you get more altititude and fun on your first few jumps, but you are gonna have to pay for it big time. both ways will teach you safely to skydive, and you get your A at the same time. as a college student, I learned static line... only way I could afford it, and I still had plenty of fun.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[slug 1]

>>Lots of people like static line. I've never even seen a static line jump in real life. I think the only reason it's still done is that it's cheaper for the dropzones>>

IMO static line doesn't make the DZ as much money as AFF. If you got lots of bucks and want to be a great skydiver in the shortest amount of time than AFF, tunnel time and a private coach is the only way to go.

Almost forgot buy your gear now so you don't have to jump that crappy rental gear. The DZO will appreciate your desire to excel and try and give you special attention to insure that you meet your goals.

OTOH static line is a less expensive rush, and will end up costing you less money which you can spend on other things like skydiving and buying gear. But greatness will take a little longer

Either way you'll get a buzz and will enjoy the sport, it will just take a little longer to be a really great skydiver by going the s/l route.

R.I.P.

[PhreeZone 15]

>What do they learn? Arch?

For the first jump... they learn to exit, fly a canopy and land. On the second - fifth ones they do dummy ripcord pulls where they show they can exit stable, pull stable and maintain the arch while still being deployed via static line. Then they move on to 5 second delays where they have to exit stable and deploy with in 5 seconds with out going unstable. Move to 10 second delays that introduce turns. At 10 or 15 second delays the instructor follows them out and is in mid air to grade them. From that point on the instructor is there as a grader only, not to baby them like some AFF instructors have to do.

At 10 jumps the AFF jumper might be off student status and has probally 8 minutes freefall. At 10 static line jumps the Static line student might be ready for 10 second delays or have done one and has about 25-30 seconds freefall. But the Static Line student will have been watched on their canoy skills a lot closer usually.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Shark 0]

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...not to baby them like some AFF instructors have to do.

In what way do AFF-Is baby their students?

[bch7773 0]

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...not to baby them like some AFF instructors have to do.

In what way do AFF-Is baby their students?

I think what phree is trying to say is that s/l instructors will never pull for you.
nor will they try to fly into you and grab you if you start spinning or something. hell, when I did s/l, they never even used hand signals... if you started to go low, they would just keep watching you... and then tell you after the jump is over that you pulled too low.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[Shark 0]

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...not to baby them like some AFF instructors have to do.

In what way do AFF-Is baby their students?

I think what phree is trying to say is that s/l instructors will never pull for you.
nor will they try to fly into you and grab you if you start spinning or something. hell, when I did s/l, they never even used hand signals... if you started to go low, they would just keep watching you... and then tell you after the jump is over that you pulled too low.

So are you saying you never received in-air instruction. If you are in a spin, are you learning anything? At that point the learning ended. Instructors will stop a spin, then give corrective signals.

[Eiley 0]

IMHO, if money is an issue, SL can be the better way to go, reason being that you are able to maintain currency (which is very important) by virtue of being able to afford to jump more often.

Here in Australia, at least, by the time you get your 'A' licence, you will be at exactly the same level as someone who achieved their 'A' licence via AFF. Both AFF and SL students then progress to 'B-Rels' (basically Coach Jumps getting you ready for 4-ways to 10-ways), which are exactly the same for both disciplines.

If money is not object, go for AFF.

Cheers,
Eiley

nothing to see here

[mjosparky 3]

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I'm an 18 year old student from Northern Indiana. I got into skydiving because my brother and his wife have combined over 1500 jumps and some change.

I'm doing static line and have 11 jumps but will probably change over to AFF this summer.

What's some of the advantages of AFF vs. Static Line and Vice Versa?

Ask your brother and his wife. Sit down, buy him a beer and tell him your concerns. He is in a much better position to help then any of us on the net.
What ever you choose, stay safe and remember, this is recreation.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[lopullterri 0]

I, learned through the AFF Progression. I, have a static line instructors rating. In my opinoin, expecting a first time jumper to leave an airplane ...climb out on his own...exit clean and stable, pull on time (without any gymnastics, in between), is a lot to expect.
Tandem to AFF is a great progression, in my opinion.

~"I am not afraid. I was born to do this"~

[mr2mk1g 10]

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Static line, learn to fall out of the plane

Come on dude, seriously. I know your posts better than that - you're not normally prone to making such wild statements about things you yourself admit you have no knowledge. You haven't even seen S/L training never mind done any.

You learn a hell of a lot more than how to fall out of the plane. In fact I would suggest you have those the wrong way round - AFF learn to fall out of a plane - S/L learn to exit a plane.

All in all you gain the same skills and two newbies from each system at 35 jumps will be virtually indistinguishable. But the S/L student will be able to get out stable and pull straight out the door... not many AFF's are taught this - hell a hop&pop is often done at 5k!!!

There is plenty of freefall training in S/L, it just comes later after the students have demonstrated basic life saving skills like exiting, pulling and stability.

[velo90 0]

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hell a hop&pop is often done at 5k!!!

That is hardly a hop & pop. I done a 7 point two way from 5K I suspect Airspeed would double the amount of points doing a 4 way from 5k which shows how crap I am at RW

Dave

[skybytch 259]

Dude... you aren't even off student status yet. Have you even seen a static line jump? Do you have any clue what a person doing the S/L progression is doing up there?

Your opinion is that AFF is the best. That's cuz you're doing AFF, so of course it's the best...

There ain't nuthin' wrong with the S/L progression. Yes, AFF will get you "off student status" quicker, but in the long run how many jumps it took someone to get off student status has zero relation to how good of a skydiver they'll be in the future... and someone who did the S/L progression will likely get to their A license having far better canopy skills than someone who did AFF.

[velo90 0]

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Yes, AFF will get you "off student status" quicker

Probaly in the majority of cases but not always.
Depends on the person and what type of training best suits them.
Depending on where you jump weather can really screw things up for AFF. Meanwhile the S/L student is progessing with his/her 5k jumps just below the cloud base.

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S/L progression will likely get to their A license having far better canopy skills than someone who did AFF

Assuming they both have the same number of jumps, why should the S/L have better canopy skills than the AFF?

Dave

[weekendwonder 0]

The debate rages on...

"Best way to learn to skydive" (like with canopies/containers/etc.) tends to be whatever you have done or are doing since few would admit that what they are doing/have done WASN'T the "best". Both programs have their pluses and minus and both routes will get you certified and ready to really learn what it is all about. Neither really teaches you how to skydive (mostly how to survive) since skydiving is, IMHO, an ongoing process where you should be constantly learning no matter how many jumps you've got under your belt. Go the way that makes the most sense for you (and your wallet).

Blues,

Bob

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

[Ira 0]

If you are doing S/L and have 11 jumps, you could be past the Practice Rip Cord Pulls and into your first free falls. If you did the progression without repeating anything, you should be somewhere around your 20 sec delays?? At this point, you could be close to moving to the higher jumps with a coach.

Why are you considering switching to AFF?

[skybytch 259]

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S/L progression will likely get to their A license having far better canopy skills than someone who did AFF

Assuming they both have the same number of jumps, why should the S/L have better canopy skills than the AFF?

My bad. Lemme rephrase that...

The person doing S/L progression will likely have better canopy skills when they get off student status than the person doing AFF.

[winsor 187]

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I'm an 18 year old student from Northern Indiana. I got into skydiving because my brother and his wife have combined over 1500 jumps and some change.

I'm doing static line and have 11 jumps but will probably change over to AFF this summer.

What's some of the advantages of AFF vs. Static Line and Vice Versa?

The parachute part of the deal is pivotal to any aspect of the sport to which you may gravitate. No matter how great your freefly or RW skills, if you can't successfully bring your parachute to a nice, safe landing time and again, your skydiving career is subject to ending abruptly.

In the static line progression the focus is first and foremost on the part of the endeavor that will save your life. Only when you have the parachute part of the deal wired do you begin to add freefall skills to your bag of tricks.

AFF is, as the name implies, a freefall intensive training method. The parachute part of the deal is given short shrift by comparison to learning the nuances of freefall.

After 100 jumps it doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference which route you took from the standpoint of freefall skills, if developing them is your goal.

If you don't develop the canopy skills right up front, you may not make it to 100 jumps.

My impression is that more AFF trained jumpers exhibit mediochre canopy skills later in their skydiving careers than do those who started with static line. Since it is under canopy that we now have by far the most casualties, I strongly suggest going with the training method that does the most to enhance your safety.

If you decide to go AFF, please do everything you can to learn to fly your parachute safely. You will be welcomed into POPS in 21 years if you stick with it and keep it safe in the meantime.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[pilotdave 0]

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Static line, learn to fall out of the plane

Come on dude, seriously. I know your posts better than that - you're not normally prone to making such wild statements about things you yourself admit you have no knowledge. You haven't even seen S/L training never mind done any.

Yeah, I wrote that at least half jokingly but I stand by it. When a static line student leaves the plane, goes unstable, and opens upside down, did he learn to exit or did he learn to fall out of the plane?

I am fully aware that down the road, which method you learned with won't matter. But on any given student jump, you get the same canopy ride whether it's AFF or static line. Sure, if you do static line you'll have more jumps by the time you get your license, so you'll have more canopy time. If you do AFF, you'll have more freefall time. AFF students are probably better an RW when they get licensed, and static line students are probably better at accuracy landings.

But do static line students learn MORE about canopy control? When they get licensed, is it equivalent to having taken a canopy control course? I doubt it.

When I'm jumping and there will be low timers in the air, I'd rather that they have good freefall skills than the ability to land accurately. I guess my point is that a first jump student is a first jump student. Canopy skills will be equal. A static line student doesn't learn canopy skills any quicker than an AFF student. Two students with equal jump numbers should have the same skills under canopy. But the AFF student will be safer in freefall.

Dave

[JeffGordon 0]

If you have 11 jumps already, you should be off the rope. I don't really see where the benifit would be in switching to AFF.

[ChileRelleno 0]

When I decided that I had to live my dream it was a matter of pride and finance as to whether I did AFF or Static Line. I went Static because of money and because I was a cocky little SOB who thought "If I can't do this without someone holding onto to me then I don't need to be here." On my second 10 sec delay I intentionally did a left 90 and back to heading, I thought it seemed to easy from the instructional manual and what my instructors had shown me, it was too easy. I got chewed for not following the diveplan, but I progressed very rapidly from there, I'd say "I want to try this" and they'd say "OK".
Some times my cockiness got the better of me and I've some great memories.

AFF, Static Line, Tandem, IAD or whatever.... They are all good progression methods, you just need to figure what you think is best for you and your wallet. One is not necassarily faster than the other nor safer, if your a flailer it takes longer, if your a natural...

As to advantages and disadvantages, talk to your prospective instructors and your brother and sister. Remember what seems advantageous to one may not to another, it needs to fit your learning style.

Welcome to Skydiving and to DZ.com!

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[benny 0]

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Dude... you aren't even off student status yet. Have you even seen a static line jump? Do you have any clue what a person doing the S/L progression is doing up there?

Your opinion is that AFF is the best. That's cuz you're doing AFF, so of course it's the best...

to quote myself, "hi, i'm fairly new to the sport, and therefore you should definitely take my advice witha grain of salt"

Hmm, maybe there was a reason I put that there. I was being honest, I know I should have kept my mouth shut but there were other reasons than the "I do it so you should too" line of reasoning. First, I just seemed logical to me. Secondly, I actually did a bit of research about the sport before deciding which route to take myself so I was using that as well. Plus what I've heard from others. OK ok, just wanted to point out that at least I was up front about my inexperience and that you really had no good reason to "bytch" at me. Thanks and blue skies.

Never go to a DZ strip show.