Contemplating buying my first rig

[bluewaterstream 0]

I recently came across a pretty sweet deal on a Mirage G3 with a 210 for the main, which is exactly what I've been looking for. However, with only 13 jumps under my belt, all of which have been on a 290, I'm obviously not quite ready to downsize to a 210 yet. So, my first question is should I hold off on buying a rig with a 210 until I can actually handle a 210. I should have downsized about 3 jumps ago, but I'm always too impatient to wait for the 260. The rigs with 290's always seem to be available at my DZ. Anyway, I weigh about 180lb without gear and have stood up 10 out of 13 of my jumps and have consistently landed within 10-40 ft from the peas(actually hit the peas on my first jump, talk about beginners luck!). Additionally, several instructors at my DZ have suggested that I downsize. I would never want to rush downsizing, but I'm wondering approximately how long it will take to safely downsize to a 210 according some of you more experienced jumpers based on my canopy experience and performance? I don't want to miss out on a good opportunity, but I also don't want to buy a rig that I won't be able to jump safely anytime soon. Any advice would be appreciated.

~ John

[DShiznit 0]

Dude, I weigh 10 lbs more than you do.

I started out on a 260, have 16 jumps, and am now jumping a 200. I am in the process of buying a rig with a 175, but will sell that and get a 190 to fly for a while.

If you found a sweet deal with a 210 (what size is the container? can you downsize a few canopies in it?) I'd say go for it, provided a rigger can inspect it.

[Spatula 0]

Where did you find that deal at? Cause I'll buy it if you dont! Just kidding! I'd talk to your instructors then decide. Good luck!

[bluewaterstream 0]

Yeah, I just really want to make sure not to fuck around with downsizing too quickly.


The container is an M5 Mirage, so my understanding is that I eventually could drop the main down to a 170 if needed.

[gerryfuss 0]

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Mirage G3 with a 210 for the main

what kind of 210? is it f-111 or zero p? I have about 40 pds on you and I jump a 210. You will find a 210 way more responsive than a 290, and a bit faster but a 210 is probably what you should be with right now anyway. If you said you wanted to get a 150 then I would say your asking for trouble but a 210 should be fine. check out this link kramer started if it is f-111 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=884213;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

[scottjaco 0]

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I would never want to rush downsizing

Why not? everyone else does it

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how long it will take to safely downsize to a 210 according some of you more experienced jumpers based on my canopy experience and performance?

First of all none of us have actually seen you fly/land your canopy. Secondly, if you have to ask, you probably aren't ready to downsize yet.

I would hold off on buying the rig until you have an idea of what your goals are....don't buy some oversized canopy/container that you are going to get bored with after 15 jumps.

[MarkM 0]

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The container is an M5 Mirage, so my understanding is that I eventually could drop the main down to a 170 if needed.

Here's the sizing charts for Mirages.

http://www.miragesys.com/order/sizing_chart.html

It says you can safely drop down 1 size and that would be a 170 ZP.

[bluewaterstream 0]

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First of all none of us have actually seen you fly/land your canopy. Secondly, if you have to ask, you probably aren't ready to downsize yet.

I would hold off on buying the rig until you have an idea of what your goals are....don't buy some oversized canopy/container that you are going to get bored with after 15 jumps.

Um, I feel that I am ready to downsize and have been told to do so by several instructors at my DZ - just not to a 210.

Buying an oversized canopy is a problem that I can deal with. I'd rather be bored and safe, than to the teeth with fear and busted up.

[jaybo 0]

Get the rig, NOW, especially if the price is right. Having it doesn't mean you cant rent a 260 or a 230 to jump a few times first. Yes, its a big step down and youre aware of this... The relation between size and flight aspect is not directly proportional. The aspect increases geometrically. This ratio becomes much more apparent in the under 200 sqft canopies and downward. A 210 at your exit weight is good choice. Plan on flying it for a few years. By the time your ready to downsize from there your container will likely need replacing as well (so don't worry about that). So try out that 260 or 230 for some jumps first and don't let the allure of your brand new rig override your common sense. Better to be jumping than reading old issues of Parachutist while recovering.

[dustin19d 0]

Dont be scared. As long as you hit the landing area dead on every time with your student rig there is no reason why not to go to a 210.

I jumped a 260 on student status then switched to a sabre 170.(215Lbs exit weight) I had no problems with it. Just keep your head on a swivel!!

[John4455 0]

Don't forget that you also need to be concerned about the size of the reserve. You could very well be jumping that.

How do ya like it Johnny?

[bluewaterstream 0]

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Don't forget that you also need to be concerned about the size of the reserve. You could very well be jumping that.

Yeah, no doubt. The reserve is a 210 as well...

[helldog 0]

What type of canopy??? and How much $??
What elevation do you jump at???
According to your weight a 210 sq ft. canopy would be an appropiate loading. Though I only have 75 jumps right now I can relate the downsizing decision. I went from a PD 300 (our elevation is 4200MSL so fast air) to FC 245 7Cell ( I weigh about 220 on the hoof and 241 out the door). Well actually downsized to a 220 sq ft. canopy first as the FC 245 lines broke on the first jump. While the 220 had totally differ flight characteristics than the giant 300 It was still controllable. I would recommend dropping in size gradually though. Like jump the 260 then a 230,220, and then to your 210. You'll find that it'll help you get more comfortable with the increased speed and glide. Of course this assumes the canopies are similar (same material and same number of cells). Just something to think about.(don't take advice from low timers....check out any advice you get with your instructors as they are the ones who have a better idea of your capabilities.
Good luck with your decision
Blue ones
Jim

[KolinskyDC 0]

I would definitely grab that one while you can. As someone mentioned earlier, you can always rent a 260 or a 230 few a while before trying out your new 210, but I have a feeling you won't need to. I went from a 260 (student canopy) to a 210 (Sabre) and I can land much better with the 210 then I ever did with my huge student canopy, go figure, thought it was going to be the other way around. They start us all on the huge beasts of canopies because we are just getting started and they are very forgiving. You could also get your rig, then have PD send you a demo in a larger size and try it out for a few jumps, so you feel more comfortable before jumping the 210.

You should definitely run this by your instructors first regardless, they know how well you fly, but it sounds like a pretty good deal, I would jump on it if I were you...pun intended.

Melissa

"May the best of your past be the worst of your future"

[Kramer 0]

That's weird man, I'm going through the EXACT same deal right now. I have 14 jumps, weigh 175, and am buying a rig with a 210 main in it.

The best advice I can hand to you that my instructors and others have given me, is this:

Downsize slowly, only jump what you can handle, and don't be afraid to ask questions. I am buying a rig with a 210 for sure. But instead of just jumping it right away, I am going to rent some gear with a 250 in it, then a 230 for a few jumps, THEN go down to my own gear and with the 210.

Just be smart, you'll be fine.

-Kramer

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[Pluto 0]

The best advice is to talk to your instructors at the home DZ. They will know you better and be able to help you out the best.

[Kat1221 0]

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Dont be scared. As long as you hit the landing area dead on every time with your student rig there is no reason why not to go to a 210.***

Just because someone can land accurately doesn't mean they should downsize! When on radio, its pretty easy to land close. There are a lot of very experienced jumpers opinions here - listen to them, be safe, and have fun. If you do buy it, remember you owe beer!

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[GravityGirl 0]

You are reading a lot of warning about downsizing here no doubt.

What you are doing at this stage is not "downsizing" per say. You are stepping down from student gear to an appropriate beginner system.

My suggestion sight unseen is to put a few jumps on the 230. Make it a priority. Get there first. Just do what it takes to try out the 230. Then step down to the 210. The 210 will most likely be the canopy that you really start to learn and build your piloting skills.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[bluewaterstream 0]

Well damn, that last rig that I mentioned had a 210 Silhouette. Almost everyone that I spoke with at my DZ said that this was not a good canopy for a beginner to have on their first rig. Not because of the size but because of its flight characteristics.

So, I found two more rigs for sale and these are what they have for mains: Foil 282 & Triathlon 190. Any thoughts? Which do you think would be better for me? I'm leaning more torwards the Triathlon, but I'm wondering if this too is a canopy that shouldn't be in the hands of someone that only has 15 jumps under his belt. I will ask everyone again at my DZ, but wanted to see what some of you thought.

~ John

note: I jumped a 260 last weekend and didn't notice that much of a difference. However, it seemed to have a better flare than the 290 when landing and stood it up with no problem. Also, riser turns were a little bit easier.

[Nightingale 0]

I've got a silhouette on my first rig, and three of my AFF instructors told me its a great first canopy and encouraged me to buy it. I love it, and I've had some wonderful landings.

[bluewaterstream 0]

Maybe they don't like you. Just kidding!

That's a bit strange. Maybe you kick ass and I suck. Who knows.

[Nightingale 0]

which flight characteristics were your instructors referring to?? (now I'm curious) I jumped a spectre and I found the silhouette easier to land than the spectre!

[skybytch 259]

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Almost everyone that I spoke with at my DZ said that this was not a good canopy for a beginner to have on their first rig.

Have any of them jumped one? The Silhouette is a great first canopy. The only downsides are that it can't be loaded like an all ZP main can (it's zp on the topskin and F111 everyplace else), and due to the F111 fabric you probably wouldn't be able to get as many jumps out of it as you could an all ZP main.

You don't want a Parafoil ("Foil 282") if you don't plan to do traditional competition accuracy.

Triathlon's are great first canopies also. Keep the wingloading on the light side.

[Nightingale 0]

phew. thanks, Lisa... I was getting a little worried there!

[benny 0]

Depending on how much trouble you feel like going through, you could get the rig with the silhouette, and trade for a more docile canopy of the same size. Just a thought.

Never go to a DZ strip show.