bluewaterstream

Yup. They usually sit under the riser covers. Hi Brian, Is it a problem if they don't sit under the riser covers? Possible snag hazard? The dacron/slocks are pretty flexible so probably not, but I just want to make sure before I jump mine with them sticking out. It looks like yours don't sit under the riser covers either, so it probably isn't an issue. I cropped your picture and added one of my own to reference what I'm talking about. Thanks, John

Some people are worthy of help from the more experienced and others are not. It's up to the experienced dudes to decide this. If you think a newbie is safe and ready for new info, share your knowledge if you want to. If you think a newbie is jackass and is just going to hurt themselves, ignore the fool. You can't save idiots that have no respect for advanced canopy piloting. I'm in no position to give any canopy flight advise to anyone, but if I was I would be very selective about who I shared that type of information with. Would it be ethical to teach a violent out of control nut-case advanced martial art moves that could be used to kill and/or serious injure someone? Hell no. Just like it wouldn't be ethical to give advanced piloting skills to someone that isn't ready for swooping. It's all about perspective, it's the teacher that decides who's ready and who's not. Some people should never be taught certain skills and it's up to the teachers/experienced to use their best judgment to decide who can handle that type of information. I once had a student that wanted to be a competitive fighter. This guy was a not very athletic and definitely not a fighter. Me and several other trainers were working with him and time and time again he would get his ass beat in competitions. He got injured often and it became obvious that fighting just wasn't his thing. We were concerned with his safety and encouraged him to get involved in different areas of competition (i.e. Forms/Katas). This wasn't about holding him back, this was about looking out for a brothers best interest. The same should apply to swooping. Just like some skydivers get the "bowling talk" to prevent them from killing themselves, some wanna be swoopers should be deterred from swooping. Who decides - you experienced swoopers do. When and if I decide to get into swooping, if a bunch of experienced cats from my dz tell me I suck and that I'm gonna end up killing myself if I keep trying to swoop - I'm gonna listen. However, if they decide to share their knowledge with me and think that I have what it takes to become a safe swooper - I'll consider that a privilege and seek as much formal training as possible. So basically, I think you guys should try to hold certain people back.

Either he suffers from selective memory or he received bad advice from this rigger. I really don't know this rigger very well, but he actually does come across as fairly knowledgeable and I find it hard to believe that he would actually give out such bad advice - so who knows. If my buddy chooses to ignore the fact that all of you have basically reinforced everything that I was telling him, that's his deal. Most, if not all, of the detailed and informative responses in this thread are from riggers - I think that will influence his decision greatly. All I know for sure is that he owes me a few pints of Guinness for doin' all this additional research for him.

Great post - thanks for adding this. His brake lines definitely took a 'set' as you described, but unfortunately the rigger that looked at his lines insisted that some brake lines come deformed like that from the factory and that he shouldn't worry about it. In my original post, this is what I was referring to as "brake line deformation/damage". Thanks again for posting this. I may actually send this thread to my friend after all, it should be more than enough info to make him re-think all of this.

No doubt, I checked your profile to see if you jumped in Colorado so that it would be easier flirt with you in person. I think we have solid love/hate potential here. Too bad you're not from CO, I could have - like - taught you about brake lines and stuff.

One rigger already gave him bad advice - my intent here was to hopefully have other riggers chime in and explain to him why twists in his brake lines are something that he should be concerned with. Even if points were being repeated, I think that it would have been helpful for him. Oh well, he's on his own with this one - this simply isn't worth it. I tried. And by the way... Kim, I was just joking around with you. I didn't realize how serious this was going to get. This whole thing had me laughing my ass off - come' on, it's the internet - how can you get upset over something like this? I love you Kim, don't be like that... Me and my "benighted brain" are gonna go stare at a wall for a few hours...

Whoa there "Kimbo"... OK, I'll tell him to "just fix it" because little Kimbo on dz.com said so. That should work. Thanks, you've been very helpful. I was asking them to explain "why" they feel the way they do. I'm sure that they have reasons for feeling the way they do regarding twisted brake lines and I wanted to hear what those reasons were. People like diablopilot, sundevil777, masterrig, etc. actually offered "clear answers", backed up their opinions, and gave examples - which is the whole point of this thread. So, come' on Miss Knowledgeable - you've posted 3 times already but you still haven't given us one reason of why you think twisted lines are bad. Enlighten us all with your superior knowledge. I'll even hook you up with some bunched up panties if you drop some of that Kimbo intellect on us.

To all of those that have posted informative responses, thank you - keep them coming. That's the point of this thread, to create a list of things that could potentially happen or that have happened in the past due to twists like these. To all of those being negative and contributing nothing, it does no good to call someone lazy and to talk shit about someone that you don't even know. This is a friend of mine that I'd like to help - not trash and talk shit about online. He is not an unsafe skydiver and has taken several canopy courses to increase his level of safety as a skydiver, maybe he just doesn't dork it up on dz.com as much as we do to learn things like this. I learned how to pack from several people and no one ever told me about untwisting your brakelines - I learned about this on dz.com and from my rigger. He hasn't learned the importance of this yet and I'm trying to help him out here. Try not to be so judgmental about someone that you don't even know. Here's the deal, I borrowed his rig to make a jump but I don't jump other peoples pack jobs. So, I unpacked his rig, inspected it, changed a few things, untwisted the brake lines, packed it back up, and jumped it. Later when I saw him I explained to him why I thought it was a bad idea to jump with that many twists in his brake lines and told him about some of the things that I've read on dz.com and what my rigger has told me. I personally milk the lines just about every time I pack. Overkill, maybe, but that's what I do. Better safe than sorry and it only adds an extra 30 seconds or so to my pack job. I don't rush and I put more time into packing than most. I told him that's what I do, but most don't think it's necessary to milk the lines that often. I encouraged him to talk to a rigger, do his own research, and then decide for himself how often to milk the lines. He was listening to what I had to say up until he took my recommendation and talked to a rigger. What he gathered from this rigger is that because he jumps spectra (microline) it is very unlikely to cause any problems due to its slickness. I'm well aware of the fact that due to spectras slickness, it's "less likely" to create tension knots than old, fuzzy, worn out dacron - but I still don't think that this is something to fuck around with. Maybe he misunderstood what the rigger was telling him, who knows. So once again, to all of those that have posted informative responses, thank you - keep them coming. Thanks, J-Jennings

No problem bro. Not my links so I can't answer for sure, but the canopy is a PD Sabre2 that he bought brand new and I think that they are Slinks. I just received PD Slinks with my new Sabre2, so I'm guessing that's what he was sent with the canopy but I'd have to ask him to know for sure.

Why?

Exactly... plus the links have nothing to do with this. So, back to these brakelines - are they: ..."Problematic or no problem at all? Can this cause a malfunction (slider hang-up/delay, tension knot(s) trapping other lines, change the length of the steering lines, kinks in the twisted lines interfering with riser guide rings, etc.), possible brake line deformation/damage, etc.?"

What do you think about these pictures? Well over 10 jumps have been made with these twists in the brake lines. The lines are Spectra (microlines) with about 150 jumps on them. Problematic or no problem at all? Can this cause a malfunction (slider hang-up/delay, tension knot(s) trapping other lines, change the length of the steering lines, kinks in the twisted lines interfering with riser guide rings, etc.), possible brake line deformation/damage, etc.? I'm debating this issue with a friend of mine and I'd like to hear some other opinions. I'd especially like to hear what all you riggers think. Thanks, J-Jennings

Yes. -jp- Wouldn't the specific camera setup and helmet be major factors to consider? What if someone is jumping a system that's virtually snagproof - like an FF2 with a lens that doesn't extend past the sidemount box or a bullet cam? I understand why standard RSL's, the SkyHook, and typical camera setups don't mix; but I can't help but wonder why a low-profile camera setup like an FF2 without a sight ring, without an SLR, and doesn't have the wide angle lens sticking out of the sidemount box shouldn't be used with a SkyHook. With this type of low-profile setup, would you say that it's OK to jump with a SkyHook? If not, why?

Nope, definitely not. Thanks for the heads up.