Sponsorship And What I Want To Do

[Jumpmunki 0]

I have been in the sport now since may 2003 and have seen many many people who are sponsored

These guys are mostly people who travel the world at competitions etc.

I understand (from running my own company) that to use people as human billboards is a great thing; they can talk to people about the product etc....

For sponsorship to happen does someone need a gazillion jumps, or could someone apply for a "scholarship" or apprenticeship as it were into the canopy piloting scheme?

There are many runners footballers etc who start out young and get allot of help from groups financially to help them train and get coaching, how long would it be before the PST runs these kinds of apprenticeships for newer people so that the whole canopy piloting scene moves forward?

Is it a realistic investment?
What kind of companies are the ones who would sponsor such a scheme?

It seams that determination to seek training from your own back is the only way to get a foot in the door of the Canopy piloting vibe,

Then a couple of years in funding yourself as a pilot someone will say.. Hey he's a cool guy, he talks to people allot and is always smiling no matter what happens, then give the guy a jumpsuit covered in logos and a wage.....

Is this generally the way it happens? Or do you as a pilot approach companies and say listen I have a great deal for you………….

I am very much a new person to skydiving in general but i feel canopy piloting is where my heart is

Freefall sure is fun, geeking around your friends spinning around and around in a tube.

But there’s nothing beats floating around in the sunset if you want to.. Docking with your friends up there.. Like a bird...

Then the next day really pushing yourself burning along a beach seeing the markers whiz by...

This really is a recurring wish and dream...
And it's only the guys that are already doing it and doing it well, that can help people like me make our dreams a reality

[brits17 0]

http://canopypiloting.tempwebpage.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?forum=29;guest=54086

There's a good place to check out some info on canopy piloting sponsorship.

_______________________
aerialkinetics.com

[Jumpmunki 0]

seen it

you'll notice i've posted on there in the general section as well ....

there is no information related to what i've asked or the converation i want to strike up in any of the thread in the canopypiloting.com (great site by the way) sponsorship forums ...

[quade 3]

Win some gold medals at national and international competitions . . . then think about sponsorships. To do otherwise is just pretentious.

Who the heck is even going to look at you if you don't have a proven record of getting press? Where's the "ad value" in a newbie?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Jumpmunki 0]

Quade, that came across as a bit harsh....

I understand that a newbie isn't a good advertising tool, and that’s not what I was saying in my post.

To simply summarise my post as a I’m new I want a sponsorship deal was wrong, thats not what i was talking about.


You mustn't have this where you are but in the uk there are an abundance of "camps" as it were for wannabe footballers, they sign up and there coaching is paid for by a big brand name, Coca-Cola or whatever. The company sponsoring it say ooo look, were doing something good to help the new young athletes be professionals some day aren’t we good.
Was throwing the subject open for chit chat as to whether there would ever be something like that for canopy piloting.

As ever it seams, nothing can be mentioned without someone jumping to a conclusion...

[AggieDave 6]

Areodyne basically does that, if you're an instructor you can buy a complete kit for 1/2 price.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Jumpmunki 0]

what kind of instructor rating must you hold?

is it uspa only?

[flyangel2 2]

I think things work a bit different here in the states.

Football is more of a mainstream sport. Players get all kinds of offers. Skydiving is looked at as kind of a daredevil, extreme sport.

In order to get sponsorship for companies here, you have to show the company that you are asking, what you can do for them. And example, but not limited: Doing demo jumps into high profile football games.

Also, because Americans are so sue happy, most companies that aren't involved in skydiving, tend to want to stay away from having their company logo attached to a skydiving event. The reason being, is if something were to happen, say a death, the company doesn't their name associated with the bad press.

Dave, I think getting a discount on gear from a manufacture is different then a sponsorship. For me a sponsorship from a gear manufacture would be having them give me a rig I got a big discount on my Wings, but they aren't giving me any kind of sponsorship.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[quade 3]

Quote

You mustn't have this where you are but in the uk there are an abundance of "camps" as it were for wannabe footballers, they sign up and there coaching is paid for by a big brand name, Coca-Cola or whatever.

This doesn't happen too much in skydiving. Occasionally in some small ways, I believe Skydive University occasioanlly put on a "search" camp, but in general, no. Certainly not sponsored by any company outside of skydiving although I think Red Bull could be talked into one if done properly.

The issue, as I see it, is that the companies want something for their money. They get that in the form of "equivalent ad value" from press coverage. In simplistic terms, let's say a full page ad in a magazine cost $3,000 and the coverage of their "event" runs over two pages, yet they only spent $4000 on the event . . . that's a pretty good return on investment so they'll be happy and probably sponsor another one. "Guaranteeing" the coverage for the first event is a gamble and the companies know that.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[spidermonky 0]

I think the major difference would be the potential return on the investment. If you sponsor a race car driver for instance, you hope they win all the time. If they do, you get lots of advertising and they make LOTS of money. If they get hurt or crash a few times then you've wasted most of your money. I'd guess that the chance of getting hurt while learning to swoop is at least equivalent to being hurt racing. Since people on the PST make dirt compared to NASCAR (and a smaller audience) then investing in a beginner skydiver would be a large risk with a substantial amount of money required and a relatively low return.

[PhreeZone 15]

Sponsorship does not mean a wage. Most sponsored jumpers are lucky to get a discounted jumpsuit or a discounted Helmet. Lucky and very skilled ones get discouts on containers, or canopies. Those that are out on the circuit and proving they earned that discount are the ones you see getting a container or canopy. Its all about value added. If you can prove that by them sponsoring you, that you will be able to convince X people that their canopy is the best in the world and that will result in sales of X canopies, or that their container was the last little thing that helped you win a medal and you can make Skydiving/Parachutist with the rig in the gold medal picture... thats when you get sponsored with more gear for the next year. Gear dealers that enteract with potential buyers as much if not more then professionals don't even get free gear. Its all about the publicity of seeing JC or Shannon on the centerfold of Parachutist with your Logo displayed there across the entire photo. That will translate to sales, not having a one liner buried in an article saying jumper X on his Spectre landed safely at the DZ after an uneventful skydive.

No one is living off a sponsorship package. Most people still have to pay all the entrance fees and things associated with swoop comps out of their own pocket.

If you are wanting to make $ jumping canopies then you might want to look at being a Test pilot. Jumping prototype canopies, trying to determine if someones canopy really is opening hard, etc. Jump ticket, and a few $ for your time. No insurance, and writing of detailed reports on every jump... Not my idea of fun. Expecially when you are told to go make 300 hop and pops on a prototype 250 foot reserve and simulate all landing situations to see how it lands, with full documenation afterwards. Too bad the starting experience level of test pilots is 3000+ jumps and currency levels of 500-700 jumps a year. Not to mention having earned the respect of the manufactor to start with.

In terms of compaines tossing up big $'s on "camps", I think Quade and Mary explained why things like that just won't fly in skydiving. Some beer companies years ago used to sponsor teams for demos... but the liability associated with it is too high. If someone has a demo accident that crashes into the stands and kills 3 people... what are whuffos going to remember more? The deaths, or the deaths caused by a "Bud" Jumper? The potential harm is just too high.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Jumpmunki 0]

all good points made..

i certainly wouldn't be in it for the free equipment

it's certainly a shame that it isn't a mainstream sport, it's just been bumped from the olympics again i see,

where as shooting (dangerous if the equipment malfunctions) is still there as well as other sports that people can be injured on... i dont' see why skydiving isn't it's safer than ski jumping.. least you have a canopy to slow you down!

[BETO74 0]

I don't see how a weekend jumper can be a good investment to be sponsored, there is really not enough promotion of a product you can do just in the weekends or without a title world champion or something.

In the other hand, I found a gear shop and dropzone that paid for my jumps while training with a 4 way team, with for a competition, just the free t-shirt was enough for me, the free jumps was a big plus, then of course they were not that many, I guess just the fact that somebody think about you and I'm still a newby (just over 400 jumps) to sponsore even if is just for a competition is a good thing.

http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html

[Jumpmunki 0]

i think maybe it's a psycological thing as well....

centre spread such and such wins blah blah comp ...

he's got an oddessy on his back and the line reads..

the choice of champions ....

the 100 jump reader says oh such and such is a cool gy and he jumps a jav.. if i want to be as good as him, maybe i should get a javelin ...

i think now after reading others opinions it deffinatly is a "big pimps out there doing it" get priority (as with anything) why would you give a 3k rig to someone who is going to jump at there local dz when they could give it to a member of team extreme and get it shown off at every opportunity ...

guess i'm going to have to pay for my own coaching lol

was nice to live the dream for a half hour tho

[Merkur 1]

The big companies involved in skydiving sponsorship (like Go Fast or Red bull) have nowadays application sites on their websites as quite a lot of people want to be sponsored. To get their attention really needs outstanding performance!
A thing that worked for me:
I just wrote an email to a German manufacturer (in this case Paratec) who wanted to raise the attention towards his product in the US. I told them that I participate in the Texas State Record and asked them to send me one of their new helmets for free, so that I can use it at TSR where supposingly over 100 skydivers may see it. I also offered them to get their logo onto the helmet. To my surprise they agreed. And I now have a $ 300 worth new FreeZR.
Even if its just a really small sponsorship, it's the first step.
But probably the only way to get to really big sponsor contracts is to spend a lot of money in the first time to get really good in your discipline and then apply for a sponsorship - if the sponsor didn't ask you, because he sees you running around without any logos.

vSCR No.94
Don't dream your life - live your dream!

[PhreeZone 15]

Even in terms of racing drivers don't just start out asking Company X to sponsor them in their first race. They usually start very young and race things like Go-carts. Then after a few winning races or good seasons they ask the local Gas station for sponsorship. They might get some free gas, or they'll ask an autobody shop for sponsorship in exchange for garage time. Slowly after they win more and start getting advertising optotunities they will approach the local mom and pop restraunt for sponsorship in exchange for getting a major logo put on their cart. As the driver advances up in carts and goes to things like dirt tracks they branch out asking more people for $. As they start racing on pavement their costs go way up so they approach bigger companies. The companies are always looking for the value added. If they are making the cover of "Racing weekly" or what ever then thats lots of free advertising. But if they are wrecking every race then there is little value added by sponsoring that racer. Eventually by the time that a racer has been racing for 10-15 years he might have built up the experience to race at a "bif track" Then you get to court a whole new size of advertiser. TV advertising can by used in the pitches by sawing I'll have your logo on my car for X minutes of TV time. This is a lot easier to do if you are leading or winning then losing or going to the garage every race.

There might be 1 person on the PST that makes more then $20k from winnings this year. The rest make some where between jack squat and $500-$1000. You'd have to win every event to make money. Those that win the $250 prises typically paid $100+ for the jumps to win that too.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[jlmiracle 7]

Most teams are going to jump a rig that they get the best deal on. Airspeed could jump wonderhogs and still win.

What I have experienced with these sponsored teams, is they are pretty unapproachable. In the past I've tried talking to some of these sponosored people but they are doing "team stuff today" maybe tomorrow, but if they aren't training they aren't showing up tomorrow.

Good luck.

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[Jumpmunki 0]

yeah, agreed..... starting small is a better idea, because smaller companys in general want to be seen more and more as cheap as they can get it.. so you have a better chance of getting something

so as you said, if Mrs Brubbys Jumpsuit Corp want advertising they can either put an advert on telly for $5000 or whatever.. or they can give some 3 way freefly team who's winning competitions a free jumpsuit each ... it's gonna get in the mag's for free and will hit the exact audience they want all in one go....

[John4455 0]

I was just accepted into the Aerodyne ASI program, about two weeks ago. Information on the ASI program is on their website http://www.aerodyne-int.com/
In addition to having an instructor rating you have to have references from an Aerodyne distributor and the dropzone that you work for.
I am anxiously awaiting my rig.

How do ya like it Johnny?

[MakeItHappen 15]

Quote

These guys are mostly people who travel the world at competitions etc.

I understand (from running my own company) that to use people as human billboards is a great thing; they can talk to people about the product etc....

For sponsorship to happen does someone need a gazillion jumps, or could someone apply for a "scholarship" or apprenticeship as it were into the canopy piloting scheme?

I find that most 'sponsored' teams or people tend to be very shallow in their product endorsements.

One 4-way team went around to all H&C mfgs until they found one that would give 1/2 priced rigs. They did not even like the rigs and said so, straight out. They said they got the rigs and could sell them at the end of the season and make money.

I recently met one member of a local team. I didn't know who they were because they never socialized or interacted with any other jumpers. I didn't even know they were local. They have a BUNCH of sponsors too. They kind of did their jumps and disappeared. Nothing in promoting the sponsors' goodies.

OTOH, I met a FF team sponsored by Aerodyne. The team Adria was on. This one day I was just 'wandering the DZ' and they asked me if I had seen the Icon. They actually got me to try it on - even tho I told them I was not looking to buy a new rig and was a long time Racer jumper. If you ask me, that's the type of people that should be sponsored. I do not think they won bunches of national or world titles, but they were popular locally and did promote the sponsored product. They were proactive, pitching the gear to a flat flyer, they did not even know, too.

A few years ago, a helmet mfg sent me a helmet for use on a high profile event. This helmet did not fit right and I sent it back. I wasn't going to promote something that did not work right. Another year there was another helmet sponsor, still did not work for me, so I used my ADI helmet - one I bought.

I think the best promoters of products are the people that jump xyz product year after year after year without any compensation. One year I had a choice of sponsored rigs from two mfgs or buying a Racer. I bought a Racer.

Real endorsements come from the people that buy their equipment and jump all the time: the instructors, local LOs and local 'nobodies' that do a lot of jumps. Sometimes you have to ask 'what would you buy today….', but even if that is a different rig or canopy than what they have, you'll get a real answer and not some superficial 'I got it for free (or 1/2 price) answer.'

Bottom line is that sponsored team 'endorsements' mean absolutely nothing in my book and may even be more negative than positive.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[GravityGirl 0]

Your best bet is to find a sugar-Momma who is turned on by adren junkies.

I started my little company with hopes of sponsoring myself on a team I was jumping with a few years back. I should have just opened a Pro Shop in a multi-billion dollar industry instead. I would have jumped a hell of a lot more. But hell. The ride wouldn't have been as much fun as the last 8 years have been.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[GroundZero 0]

Quote

Re: [Jumpmunki] Sponsorship And What I Want To Do [In reply to] Quote | Reply

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Win some gold medals at national and international competitions . . . then think about sponsorships. To do otherwise is just pretentious.

Who the heck is even going to look at you if you don't have a proven record of getting press? Where's the "ad value" in a newbie?

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quade - futurecam.com
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

Paul,

As a manufacturer, bombarded by requests for sponsorship... I completely disagree with your evaluation of the "sponsorship" thing.

I love world champions touting our wares.

I'm always thrilled by champions being photo'd in major magazines wearing our colors.

But you know what I really want to see from our sponsored people?

I want to see the enthuasiasm of someone like Jumpmonki... he's brand new to the sport and has the drive that I still have after almost 20 years... Too many jumpers lose that thrill in just a few years. Sponsorship is about a person that can sell the product. It is NOT about the person who carries a few merit badges and such.

It is about sales....

I've never seen a used car salesman who could sell shitty cars and make money at the same time. If he sells great "pre-owned cars" he prospers.

Don't quote numbers and records and such shit... show me how you can perform and that's who I want.

I look forward to finding the most enthusiastic people in the sport... It is not about numbers, experience is good, but enthusiasm and production will win everytime.

Email me if you have what I'm thinking about, I want winners, in life, not neccessarily comps.

These are the people that BECOME world champions!

Chris

Precision.Aero

[email protected]
423-949-4688

[atsaubrey 0]

All I can say (LISTEN UP MANUFACTURERS!!) keep the FATMAN in the air, with up to date gear and I will sell your stuff baby! *hint*

"GOT LEAD?"

[quade 3]

I guess we're looking at two different aspects of sponsorship.

I'm looking at the value of a sponsored person in terms of how much press he can get.

I'd say that you're looking at the value of how much flesh he can press.

(Ok, tortured comparison . . . . . . yeah, I know.)

The difference is where I come from in terms of marketing and sponsorships; ad value in publications. Whereas you seem to be talking in terms of a live product demo and an on-the-scene salesman.

Both -are- valuable.

That said, one is measurable in terms of quid pro quo while the other is very difficult to put a number on.

If Dan Diver jumps a ZX-86 and wins a meet and gets a bunch of photos of him swooping in a magazine, I can tell you -exactly- what it was worth.

If, after the swoop meet he walks around and show off his new canopy and talks for several hours to 20 or so interested jumpers, that's a much more difficult number to try to pin down. Even if one of the jumpers buy a new canopy right then and there . . . was it completely because of the talk or did he make his decision when he saw the results of the swoop meet or maybe even before that? Like I said, much harder to pin down.

I used to work for a department in a huge company that was into marketing and publicity. Pretty much, the department lived and died by the numbers. While we always liked doing the soft sell, it was the tangible hard numbers that justified our existance.

Yeah, you -always- want to sponsor good, enthusiastic people no matter what. I'm NOT saying that you can get away with -just- having some gold around your neck. Nobody likes a salesman that's also a jerk.

My bottom line would be that sponsorship needs to be worth it in terms of direct and measurable sales or ad value. Sponsoring a person simply because he's "enthusiastic" doesn't make much sense to me if he can't deliver on the bottom line.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Jumpmunki 0]

certainly to a cut and dry solution it would be a case of

what am i going to get back from the money i have just spent on this bloke?

very similar to a... how much am i going to get back on the money i spent on this advertisment in parachutist or skydive.....

maximum exposure with minimum effort thats the key to good marketing so you can put your effort into people who are interested rather than pushing at someone who clearly isn't (i've been there for my own company)