Reserve wingload personal limits for HP canopy pilots

[jose 0]

So after the thread in gear and rigging regarding Smart reserves, I did some research. One poster had a high wingload and caught some flack, (imagine that here on DZ.com eh?) and this left me wondering about accepted reserve wingloads.

The research led me to one particular jumper that has 1400+ jumps that jumps a 126 and weighs 220 out the door. THATS 1.78!!!!!!! Holy shit dude?!?!?! I already know that this wingload practically violates all max ratings of that PD product, but most any jumpers personal risk factor by a long shot.

So, with that tid bit said, my question is... how much is accepted over the reccomendations?

I dont mean the technical data from the manufacturer, but the limits that we as HP canopy pilots set for ourselves.

Is it really normal to have a smaller reserve than main?

Does your choice reflect your competence as a pilot with your main, ie HP landings every jump with 500+ jumps or something like that?

Yanko

[Canuck 0]

Guilty. According to my profile, I load my 113 reserves at 1.8 something. I think it's actually closer to 1.7 because of the PD measurement thingy. Anyway, I've never thought about reserve wing loading to be honest. When you get this far away from the optimal wingloading of 7 cell F-111 canopies, discussing wingloading becomes kinda pointless. I know I'm within the placarded weight limit, and I know I can land the canopy safely. To me, that's what is important.

Canuck

[murps2000 86]

Is it really normal to have a smaller reserve than main?

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Seems to be pretty common to have a reserve of similar size to your main. Since PD reserves are all rated at 254lbs. (with exception of the 113, I believe), people can achieve this without fear of their tiny reserves popping at terminal. I hear the Smart reserve is also built quite well.

Does your choice reflect your competence as a pilot with your main, ie HP landings every jump with 500+ jumps or something like that? ***

Self-perceptions of competence, perhaps. I've met some people who jump reserves of a size that says they think they're more competent than they really are. Nevertheless, I think it's just that people figure their reserves and mains will fly better together if they're both out at the same time. Personally, I just ask myself what the worst case scenario is in which I'd be worried about the size of my reserve, and two out isn't it. You never know, you might get stuck landing half your reserve one day.

Oh, and I also want dacron line on mine.

[lowie 0]

Not to mention landing under your reserve unconscious!

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

My reserves ( PD 106-R's) are larger than both of my mains (Velo 79, Sabre2 97)

[RedassSkychic 0]

Something to remember: when you're unconcious your body will be relaxed and less likely to be injured.

[jose 0]

If you look at the statistics from unconscious landings, the fatalities asscociated with them is from head injuries. It doens't matter how limp you are, your brain is going to smack the inside of your skull when your face smashes the pavement. The rest of your body might be fine...but you'll still be dead.

[AdD 1]

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Something to remember: when you're unconcious your body will be relaxed and less likely to be injured

Unless of course you've got a line twist or two in that reserve, that'd be my reason to go bigger with my reserve, but then again I have no AAD.
You have reminded me of a question though, I've heard that it is bad to PLF with one's legs relaxed, any truth to this?

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

[Canuck 0]

PDR 99, 106, 113 are all placarded at 220 max. The rest of the PD reserves are rated to 254. They are all under the same TSO I believe though, which means they have all survived the same drop test requirements.

Canuck

[jumperconway 0]

PDR 106 1.8+
PDR 113 1.7+
Mains;
Xaos 27-79
Xaos 21-88
Neither container will take a PDR over 113. I wouldn't load any other reserve that high except maybe the Smart but I haven't ever jumped one.

[Liemberg 0]

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I've heard that it is bad to PLF with one's legs relaxed, any truth to this?

I would not know. I do know that twice I landed with tandempassengers that were 'flat out'. They didn't get hurt the least.
Do keep in mind however that I flared the canopy on both occasions. Maybe truth in the old saying that when 'falling down' it is best to be either a small child (unaware) or completely drunk (idem).

IMO being completely relaxed might help...

OTOH If these assumptions are wrong, landing a too small reserve while unconscious might leave you paraplegic or worse.

YMMV...

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[katzurki 0]

When we were jumping rounds, we were taught to keep our legs/ankles taut and tense and together. On my first jump ever, with a round, I was fooled by the seemingly slow rate of descent and relaxed instead of keeping taut. That hurt a bit :)

[Liemberg 0]

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That hurt a bit :)

You should have brought someone to flare

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[jose 0]

Perhaps you should have paid more attention to the instructor. Especially on your first jump.

[FrogNog 1]

I would like to point out that landing under an inflated & flying canopy, no matter how heavily loaded, will cause less damage than landing with nothing out. (Except landing in a fast turn. And except for fatal head injuries as someone else pointed out, which kill just as dead as any other fatality.)

So in that respect, a heavily loaded reserve is way better than nothing.

I won't comment on my reserve loading because I'm not a HP canopy pilot. (Neither my canopy nor its pilot is high performance. )

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[winsor 187]

Screw tiny reserves.

I have a couple of 99 sq. ft. crossbraced mains, and both of them have 218 sq. ft. reserves. Why? Because I didn't have anything bigger on hand.

CAN I land something smaller safely? Sure - if there isn't anything else working against me.

Do I want to be under something loaded as highly as my main if I'm

A) Under canopy low over trees or other obstacles?

B) Under reserve because I'm too badly injured to open my main (broken collarbone, arm, etc.)?

C) Unable to see from blood in my eyes (been there) or some other problem?

D) Unconscious or insensate?

E) Other factor I have yet to conceive?

Hell no.

I don't want my reserve to simply keep me from dying, and maybe require a Life Flight. I want to have a nice soft landing, grab another rig, and be on the next load.

If having a big reserve isn't cool, that's just too bad.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[Squeak 17]

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Screw tiny reserves.

I have a couple of 99 sq. ft. crossbraced mains, and both of them have 218 sq. ft. reserves. Why? Because I didn't have anything bigger on hand.
Winsor

What container do you run a 99 main and 218 reserve in?

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[AggieDave 6]

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What container do you run a 99 main and 218 reserve in?

Hell, I want to see a pic of the rig!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[jose 0]

I can appreciate your attitude. Good for you for having that thought process. I would however like to see your rig. You must look like the hunchback of Notre Dame with it on....

[dropzonefool 0]

So after the thread in gear and rigging regarding Smart reserves, I did some research. One poster had a high wingload and caught some flack, (imagine that here on DZ.com eh?) and this left me wondering about accepted reserve wingloads<<

I can only imangine I'm the one you spoke of catching the flack.

My question was switching from a 1.41/1 raito on a reserve to a 1.5/1 is a big deal or not. Granted I'll be switching from a Tempo to a PDR. (tempo 170 to a PDR 160) My question further asked with this switch would it be better getting a more responsive reserve. Like the PD. Alot of more experienced jumpers posted alot about how I do not have the experience to jump that wing loading, or I should get bigger gear.
Well I know what my wingloading is that is why I asked the question in the first place. Should I get a PDR? Is switching up a point in wingloading a big deal? Phreezone had a realy good answer, stating the measurment guide by the manufactures are different and a Tempo 170 compaired to a PDR 160 are almost even, so my wingloading wouldn't really be changed.
Windsor,
A 99 sqft. crossbrace will pack up like a 120 or a 135, your reserve pack tray and bag are for a 218. You must have a realy short main closing loop. Be carefull, if you allow the groments of the main flaps to overlap it could lock the contianer.

[winsor 187]

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What container do you run a 99 main and 218 reserve in?

Hell, I want to see a pic of the rig!

They're Racer Elites. Here's a picture of them; it's a poor image and they aren't arranged in a photogenic display, but it gets the idea across.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[crewkeith 0]

research T.S.O. 23 d reserves are certified to 254# or something like that regardless of size. manufactures put their weight limits on them for reasonable performance and a margin of safety. highly experienced pilots should have no problem flying their choice of reserve just as the should with their main................ but dont that 99 reserve look sooooooooo cool. personal preference i guess.


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The skies are no longer safe

I'm back

[crewkeith 0]

hey winsor how about 2 out??? how would a 99 crossbraced fly with a 218 reserve??? i had a 120 and a 176 and i was kinda scared of 2 out with that. has any one flown 2 very different canopies like that ??? i saw a video of a round and square together in my aff class and it looked bad!!!!!


.

The skies are no longer safe

I'm back

[winsor 187]

Quote

So after the thread in gear and rigging regarding Smart reserves, I did some research. One poster had a high wingload and caught some flack, (imagine that here on DZ.com eh?) and this left me wondering about accepted reserve wingloads<<

I can only imangine I'm the one you spoke of catching the flack.

My question was switching from a 1.41/1 raito on a reserve to a 1.5/1 is a big deal or not. Granted I'll be switching from a Tempo to a PDR. (tempo 170 to a PDR 160) My question further asked with this switch would it be better getting a more responsive reserve. Like the PD. Alot of more experienced jumpers posted alot about how I do not have the experience to jump that wing loading, or I should get bigger gear.
Well I know what my wingloading is that is why I asked the question in the first place. Should I get a PDR? Is switching up a point in wingloading a big deal? Phreezone had a realy good answer, stating the measurment guide by the manufactures are different and a Tempo 170 compaired to a PDR 160 are almost even, so my wingloading wouldn't really be changed.
Windsor,
A 99 sqft. crossbrace will pack up like a 120 or a 135, your reserve pack tray and bag are for a 218. You must have a realy short main closing loop. Be carefull, if you allow the groments of the main flaps to overlap it could lock the contianer.

Thanks for the heads-up. I have 10 Racers at present, and have a rough idea of how they work.

As far as little reserves go, I doubt if anything anyone says is going to convince you to pick something that will give you some slack when you need it most.

With any luck, you will use your little reserve as many times as necessary, and it will be entirely uneventful. You can then shake your head and wonder why people were being such weenies.

OTOH, you may find yourself in a corner where having more nylon overhead would make all the difference in the world.

Life is a crapshoot in general, and skydiving moreso, and I think it a real good idea to load the dice in your favor as much as possible. When you go to silver, you are betting the ranch on one pass.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[winsor 187]

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hey winsor how about 2 out??? how would a 99 crossbraced fly with a 218 reserve??? i had a 120 and a 176 and i was kinda scared of 2 out with that. has any one flown 2 very different canopies like that ??? i saw a video of a round and square together in my aff class and it looked bad!!!!!


.

I really don't give it an awful lot of thought, since I stay the hell out of CYPRES territory.

If I have two out, my intention is to bury a toggle on the main and chop when they get clear. The shorter bridle on the pullout reduces the likelihood of entanglement with the reserve.

There is the stray chance that they will get along. I don't recall coming across results from tests where radically different sizes were flown together. I do know that an EXTreme loaded over 2:1 was flown, at half brakes, in formation with me under an F-111 7-cell at 0.9:1. so there may be a chance that compatibility issues are not as grim as envisioned.

In any event, I think the prospect of breaking every bone in my body trying to land a too-small reserve is a more compelling concern than preparing for personal CRW on undersized canopies.


Blue skies,

Winsor