No class, no jump in Big D

[Musicman 0]

Well, the truth is I spent 6 hours in a classroom, but I can't remember a time when I was treated with such open hostility or condescension(I was not alone in this opinion, by far), especially as a paying customer. I realize that AFF 1 must be a looooong time ago for some people, but instructors are not paid to make people feel like idiots. For that matter, there was a great deal of cliquish mentality throughout. The material was delivered rapid-fire, and questions were met with open contempt and derision. Hell, I can be treated like that for free just by opening my front door! BUT, when I'm laying out close to $400, I don't think it's too much to ask to be treated with basic courtesy. It was a most unfortunate experience as I was very excited about this and have looked forward to it for some time. Oh, and the winds were gusting at 25-35, so no jump, and a looong hour and 1/2 ride home.
Sorry to have to report the truth in this instance, but if it weren't already paid for, I'd not go back for the jump.

[skymama 35]

The person you need to take your complaints to is the dzo, not here. We really can't do anything for you. If the others in the class feel the same way about this instructor, go together as a group and bring up specific incidents, don't just say, "that guy is an ass" or something like that.

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but instructors are not paid to make people feel like idiots.

No one can make you feel like an idiot unless you let them.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[daveb 1]

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Well, the truth is I spent 6 hours in a classroom, but I can't remember a time when I was treated with such open hostility or condescension(I was not alone in this opinion, by far), especially as a paying customer.

What a change from your posting two days ago! I know the staff at Skydive Dallas, and your claim is surprising, to say the least. Take any complaints to the manager Joe Rekart, or the DZO if you feel you must. The entire organization is first class (and I am not alone in this opinion), and I have trouble accepting things were exactly as you represent. But I wasn't there -- talk to Joe. Call him today and complain. You will be taken seriously and the matter handled professionally.

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Oh, and the winds were gusting at 25-35, so no jump, and a looong hour and 1/2 ride home.

Welcome to skydiving. I have driven 500 miles round-trip to sit for three days because of poor weather many, many times. I have also made 45 jumps in three days there. It's the nature of the sport (bad pun, I know).

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Sorry to have to report the truth in this instance, but if it weren't already paid for, I'd not go back for the jump.

You can get a refund if it was that bad.

[Musicman 0]

A: I never said anyone was an "ass".(Did you actually read what was written?)

B: I never said it was a guy.

C: I was asked by members of this very forum to let them know how it went.

D: What I spoke was the truth. Others DID agree with me. I actually toned down the consensus.

Relax. I was under the impression that this was supposed to be fun, but my honest impression was that there was a fair amount of elitist attitude....for a hobby. More care could and should be given to newcomers to encourage the activity of skydiving. That aspect was indeed not there. I was.

[Jimbo 0]

What specifically went wrong? What happened that they made you feel like an ass?

If you go to the DZO or management with nothing more than "Your staff is mean and rude", then he'll likely brush you off (I know I would). On the other hand, if you go to the DZO with concrete examples of how you were mistreated you'll likely get a bit more attention.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[JohnMitchell 14]

What Musicman describes I've seen in more than one skydiving classroom. It's all in the attitude of the instructors, who are in a position of power and trust over the student. With that said, I know nothing about Skydive Dallas's instructors, nor would I hazard a guess as to what happened that day. Sometimes things are just misunderstood. I would tell Musicman that if he feels not trained well enough to make a safe jump, he should request to be retrained at no extra cost. He should make his request directly to the DZO.

[Jeth 0]

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D: What I spoke was the truth. Others DID agree with me. I actually toned down the consensus.

Relax. I was under the impression that this was supposed to be fun, but my honest impression was that there was a fair amount of elitist attitude....for a hobby. More care could and should be given to newcomers to encourage the activity of skydiving. That aspect was indeed not there. I was.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. But this is definitely NOT the norm! When I first went to the DZ, I was very pleasantly surrpised to discover that it was totally NOT an elitist attitude there! Everyone was so friendly and nice. Throughout my training, the instructors and other jumpers have been very supportive and helpful. I never felt put down or cut down as you describe. For most people in this sport it is truely a passion and they want to share the love with newbies.
I really hope you talk to the manager or DZO, especially if the whole class was upset. I'm sure that is not the normal way their classes go. Talk to some other AFF students, I bet they are having the time of their life.

"At 13,000 feet nothing else matters."
PFRX!!!!!
Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109
My Jump Site

[justinb138 0]

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Well, the truth is I spent 6 hours in a classroom, but I can't remember a time when I was treated with such open hostility or condescension(I was not alone in this opinion, by far), especially as a paying customer. I realize that AFF 1 must be a looooong time ago for some people, but instructors are not paid to make people feel like idiots.

AFF hasn't been that long ago for me (6 months or so), but I didn't get that same impression that you got. I know the instructor in question, and I know that there is no way she would try to make you feel like an idiot, however, they have alot of information to fit into a short amount of time, and are generally very direct about things.

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For that matter, there was a great deal of cliquish mentality throughout.

What do you mean?

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Oh, and the winds were gusting at 25-35, so no jump, and a looong hour and 1/2 ride home.

Yup, same here. I left at around 1am this moning after all the beer had worn off. High winds suck.

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Sorry to have to report the truth in this instance, but if it weren't already paid for, I'd not go back for the jump.

I'd recommend that you give them a call and talk to your instructor (They probably won't be jumping today, winds are still gusty), and if that doesn't help, talk to Joe, he's a hell of a nice guy and always willing to help.

[turnlow 0]

I would emphasize the importance of talking to the instructors personally as well. Not to chastise them, but talk to them in a non-judgemental manner about your impression of the experience. Not knowing this DZ at all, my guess would be that your impression is partly due to the instructors desire for you to understand the life and death nature of what you are about to do.

You will be jumping from an airplane with the instructors from this DZ. It is important that you feel comfortable with and trust them.

__________________________________________________

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

[rasmack 0]

I did not do AFF, and I do not come from the US. I do not know anyone involved, but for all it is worth, you need to be absolutely clear about one thing.

These people are training you to jump out of an airplane. Jumping out of airplanes is not a trivial thing. If you do not have absolute trust in your instructor, then the two of you have a problem. I do not know what happened in that class, and frankly it does not matter who was to blame. You need to be able to trust your instructor. End of story. More knowledgeable people than me have already posted suggestions. Please follow up on them. Do not make a jump with which you are not comfortable.

As for the weather, try and see how many jumps I have gotten in one and a half years. I love jumping in Denmark

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[skymama 35]

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A: I never said anyone was an "ass".(Did you actually read what was written?)

Of course I read your entire post. Did you read mine? I said, "don't just say, "that guy is an ass" or something like that". It was to reiterate my point that you have to be specific in what you say, you can't give a vague comment like that. It was an example.

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B: I never said it was a guy.

Inset "person" for guy. Geez!

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D: What I spoke was the truth. Others DID agree with me. I actually toned down the consensus.

I never suggested you weren't speaking the truth. If you'll reread my post, I actually told you to go as a group to the dzo and talk about the situation.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[AMax 0]

I have very little to add to Dave's post – SD Dallas instructors are the first class. It is extremely hard to believe what you described in this post. It looks like you have some biased personal reason that has nothing to do with the quality of teaching.


In addition:
When you sign up for AFF school, do not expect to be treated like a VIP customer in a fancy store simply because you just paid 400 backs. These people's job is to make sure you survive the first jump and trust me, they do their job very well.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Hot tip:

Don't post anything negative about any DZ if you want to continue skydiving (whether it is true or not).

Derek

[Jimbo 0]

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Hot tip:

Don't post anything negative about any DZ if you want to continue skydiving (whether it is true or not).

Better yet: Don't post anything negative about any DZ if you want to continue skydiving --without substantiating your claims--.

There's nothing wrong with saying "Hey, I was DZ X over the weekend and they really pissed me off when they did -this-, or -that-, or whatever. But don't come here whining unless you're willing to share with us more than simply "they were mean to me" or "they made me mad" or "they're a bunch of poopie heads". At least tell us HOW or WHY they were mean.

Fair enough?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Dyouz 0]

You think it's bad to not jump in one day because the winds were high? If that's the attitude that you're gonna have then maybe the sport isn't for you. As you can see, I don't have a lot of jumps under my belt for the amount of time i spent in the sport, but you know what, we all deal with the weather. It's the love of the sport that keeps us at the DZ from open to sunset for that hope that the winds will die down or the cloud cover will go away. It took me three years to complete the AFF course. There were plenty of days that I sat there from open to close without a single jump. But it dosn't mean I didn't learn anyhting. I trusted my instructors, which you should be able to do the same, and took thier advise without question when they said the winds were too high. Sure they may have been covering thier own ass just in case I got hurt, but as long as I'm still jumping to this day without one problem, I thank them. If you're at the DZ all day, talk to people. When you see them going over thier skydive or when you see your instructor doing something, ask questions. As for your issue with your instructor, you should take all the advise that has been given. It is great advise from people who have been around and even from people who know the DZ and DZO. If you really want this sport though, it will not be handed to you on a silver platter. Have fun no matter what you are doing and if you don't jump, just remember that there is always another day. Take it as god's sign that today is not your day to jump, and maybe he has a reason for that. Blue skies.

[Ncrowe 0]

3 years for AFF..good god man ....

"Don't Mess Around With the Guy in Shades- Oh No!!! "

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Fair enough?

Unfortunately, no. I posted a few things about a DZ and got hate-mail, even though it was all true. I got a few PM's from people that flamed me on the forums, but admitted that what I was saying was true privately. It doesn't matter if is true or not, posting anything negative about a DZ will get you ostracized from that DZ. I have seen it happen numerous times here on DZ.com. As one person put it, it is like a cult mentality.

Derek

[daveb 1]

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It doesn't matter if is true or not, posting anything negative about a DZ will get you ostracized from that DZ. ... As one person put it, it is like a cult mentality.

Not so much a cult mentality as a family thing. I can say bad things about my brother, but if you say exactly the same thing, well, them's fightin' words.

In this case, something rubbed the anonymous musicman the wrong way. What, we have no idea, because only generalities that cast derision on the entire operation was written. The combination of unsubstantiated, general claims on a well-known and well-liked business by an unknown, new poster is certain to invite rubuttal.

Momma always told me that if I didn't have anything nice to say, I shouldn't say anything. There's more than a kernal of truth to that.

Or maybe Kbone has returned, looking to stir up more sh**....

-- Dave

[diablopilot 2]

This will make it all better<----Clicky.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[BIGUN 1,069]

I can't help but wonder if there isn't more a sense of frustration on your part regarding the wind conditions, than the instructor. I'm having some strong problems with:

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questions were met with open contempt and derision.

I have been allowed the courtesy of attending their classes to learn differing teaching styles and methodologies and have never seen what you claim. Since you later in the thread allude to it not being a guy, then unless things have changed in the staff, the person you're talking about is one of the most respected instructors in our industry. For me, this does not give your claim much credibility. If you assert otherwise, I encourage you to do as others have suggested and contact the DZM.

Otherwise, let's call this matter closed.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[flyangel2 2]

But I suck at bowling!

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[freakyrat 1]

Hey Musicman

I think most people here on this forum answered your concerns so I won't belabor their points.

I want to speak to Texas weather being a weather specialist. If you were at our DZ here in Waller, TX this weekend and saw how even the hottest canopies were behaving in the gusty wind conditions you can understand why some people were not jumping and others who were had some interesting experiences landing especially after the cold front came thru this afternoon and the winds suddenly changed direction and speed.

Your instructors are there for your safety. You have a lot of things to comprehend and do under canopy without having to worry how you are going to land the parachute in less than ideal conditions and conditions that would be unsafe.

Give you an example. A couple of years ago I was jumping in California at Perris Valley which is a nice dropzone but one that can get high winds and dust devils etc. given it's desert location. I was out in the air under a 135 sq. foot PD Stiletto canopy which is a high performance ram air parachute that you can see experienced jumpers jumping at any dropzone. It was my third jump of the day and on this jump the winds suddenly came up after I had already gotten out of the aircraft. I barely made it back to the DZ from where I exited the plane. Setting up for landing I could see the dirt and the tumbbleweed blowing around. I managed to land fine and get the canopy collapsed after I had landed so I wouldn't get drug thru the sand. Now I wouldn't normally jump in these conditions and these were certainly not the conditions for a student jumper or even some experienced jumpers. In fact the DZO called a load down that had just taken off because of the windy conditions. Very similiar to the conditions we had in Texas this weekend. O'h and I learned how to skydive at Ft. Hood Texas when I was in the military and we also had strict rules on what conditions we would let student's jump in maybe even stricter cause it was a military base club.

In summation, There are going to be better weather days, You are going to get to jump when conditions allow it and just remember YOUR SAFETY COMES FIRST.

Chris
Skydive Houston

[dgm458 0]

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I want to speak to Texas weather

Yeah the wind definitely sucked at SDD on Saturday. Drove for 3 hours, participated in safety day, waited around, drove 3 hours home. I did get a half price jump ticket, but I didn't get the freebee!

At 11:30 AM the winds were holding steady at 21-25 MPH, with gusts up to almost 35 MPH. Then at about 3 PM, they peaked.

The only guys that were in the air were the big boys that could push any size canopy and those flying the small bedsheet type. I saw one guy landing in the normal landing area drop about 20 ft just before landing because of the turbulence and there were a few that had a hard time staying on their feet because the wind would try to drag them back.

There were plenty of times as a student that I flew backwards and trust me, it's not fun upon landing and can be downright scary in the air.

I can't tell you anything about their instructors...I didn't do my training at SDD. Being safety day though, that may have caused some of the frustration. Some of the instructors were running around alot, seeming to pull double duty. SDD was pretty busy on Saturday.

Just my 2 cents.

--------------------------------------------------
Failure to prepare is preparing to fail

[beowulf 1]

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Relax. I was under the impression that this was supposed to be fun, but my honest impression was that there was a fair amount of elitist attitude....for a hobby.

It is fun for those that like to skydive, but the moment you don't respect it, it will kill you. The things that you were being told in the class might have sounded simple and obvious are not nearly as obvious and simple as you think. But there is no way for you to understand this till you take that first jump. Your first jump will be like nothing you have ever experienced. There is nothing that you have ever done that could possibly prepare you for the psychological and physical effects of jumping out of an airplane for the first time. There is no way to predict how you will respond to this. Everyone reacts differently.

[justinb138 0]

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I did get a half price jump ticket, but I didn't get the freebee!

Be careful..

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At 11:30 AM the winds were holding steady at 21-25 MPH, with gusts up to almost 35 MPH. Then at about 3 PM, they peaked.

Yeah, on the ground. I think they were in the 40+ range between 1k and 3.5k.

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There were plenty of times as a student that I flew backwards and trust me, it's not fun upon landing and can be downright scary in the air.

Yesterday was the first time I saw someone under an x-braced canopy flying backwards.....