Jumping out of Cessna with regular doors. Possible? Issues?

[tecdady 0]

Hey all, yeah I know Im new to this. This is more of a preliminary question I guess. My friend and I are finishing our schooling this monday/tuesday. His brother in law has a co-op with some other people for a cessna 172.

My question is this. I know most DZ's that run cessnas have the passenger side door removed. This isnt the case in this situation. Is it possible and safe to get a ride with him and jump out using a regular cessna door?

Stall speed is about 60 mph so are there going to be issues getting the door open safely. I dont know, this may be common place, but if you have any advice, let me know. Again this is very soon in our career for this, but hell we are sitting around bored and just wondered.

Thanks again.
Chris

Day-Day that CRAAAAAAAZY bitch is out there again!!!

[IanHarrop 37]

It's not that hard to remove the door so I suggest this is a better course of action than leaving it on.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[tecdady 0]

yeah we were thinking about that. but we were more into the "catching a ride" aproach. aka, if he is going up, we catch a ride, get out, and he keeps going on about his flight. rather than have to come back down and put the door back on. but hey, thanks for the advice, we kind of were right on the same lines as you :)

Day-Day that CRAAAAAAAZY bitch is out there again!!!

[bodypilot1 0]

Not a good idea. There are no DZ's that will let you fly your own plane to jump from. If you have someone that has a plane, you can't just jump out anywhere you feel like, unless he wants to lose his license.

A notam has to be filed with the FAA that you be jumping over a specific area at a specific time unless it's a DZ.

Skydivers have jumped from planes that aren't set up for skydiving many times, and YES, there are dangers like MANY snag points, along with no step and trying to squeeze out the door while pushing it open.

Get your training overwith, learn to skydive safely with the right equipment, and don't worry about doing pirate jumps until you have a whole hell of alot of experience.


Be safe.
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[mccurley 0]

Been there and done that, from a 185 flying chase on another 185 over the Colswater DZ in Ontario.
Very difficult and adds more possibilities for snaging and/or premature openings.

Can be done but I don't recomend it.

Watch my video Fat Women
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI

[EDYDO 0]

Once you get the experience, it is possible and reasonable, especially with todays gear. I have done it with the old "belly wart" reserve. Obviously, you have to be extra careful about snags.

I don't see how a DZ at a public airport could prevent someone from jumping from other than their own planes and getting a notam out at non-DZ airports isn't difficult at all. Just be sure to get the airport managers approval for occasional jumps.

I cut my teeth making jumps as you describe, there just weren't that many skydiving aircraft in my area in the 60's.

If you are near a small EAA type airport where the guys are always hanging around and hangar flying, it is a perfect place to get free jumps.

With that said, it certainly adds risk when you have to squeeze out and whenever possible, I remove the door. Nearly all of them come off with a screwdriver or pair of pliers.

You are supposed to get approval for flight with door removed. I have never been checked on that, but it is almost an automatic process after asking for it.

Ed

[divnswoop 0]

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Very difficult and adds more possibilities for snaging and/or premature openings.

Can be done but I don't recomend it.

Agreed....I have done 2 jumps out of a 172 without a inflight door. It's kinda tricky to push the door open with a bit of strength and get yourself out the door. The first one went fine....the second one, well, I left a sandal and a good hunk of skin with the airplane as I left!!

[JohnMitchell 14]

Same as those guys above. Been there, done that, it can be tricky. The chance of snagging something is really high, so make sure you get a little more experience.

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[tecdady 0]

thanks for all the advice everyone. it was something i wondered even long before i jumped out of a plane. as a kid, my dads friend was in the chico skydiving club. we went to a private airstrip in red bluff where i saw these crazy bastards unload at about 1500' it seemed. i swear they had their chutes in hand (might have been pilot chutes in hand, i was young). im pretty sure they still had the door on, and the plane was so low i could read the tail numbers. anyways, just something i always wondered about. and dont worry, for those of you that think this is something im going to do tomorrow, its not. hence my repeated disclaimer in the first post.
chris

Day-Day that CRAAAAAAAZY bitch is out there again!!!

[ryoder 1,404]

Did it once from a 172:

- Pilot gives full right rudder, while holding wings level.
- Open door by pushing mightily with left hand on door and right hand on door frame.
- Bomb out door with head toward tail.
- Pull knees toward chest to get feet out of door before it slams on them.

I came damn close to having the door slam down on my feet.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[efs4ever 3]

See this one

Russell M. Webb D 7014
Attorney at Law
713 385 5676
https://www.tdcparole.com

[RkyMtnHigh 0]

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See this one

are you still sad about losing your Sketcher?

_________________________________________

[FrogNog 1]

I recall someone asking a similar question to this a while back (same place, possible demo jump IIRC), and there was one response that stuck out in my mind but I can't find now.

The response was that all applicable insurance tends to be void if they find an accident was caused by wreckless or grossly negligent behavior, or something like that, and that hypotehtically a final FAA/NTSB report on a plane that crashed due to someone intentionally skydiving from it with regular doors attached would include exactly these sorts of buzzwords.

I'm so sorry I can't find the post; having to say "I think I read..." and badly paraphrasing someone else's "I am not a lawyer, but..." post is really weak.

But maybe you or someone could think in that direction: what would happen if the jump went wrong and the plane went splat? We hope this is unlikely - but we change out the doors on our planes (among other preparations and procedures) to try and make it unlikely.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[killler 2]

Not a big deal at all.... Have over a 100 jumps from planes with the door on.... Every thing from a cub to cherokee 6.... 40+ from a C-150..... I've even got out of C-172 from the back seat when the front seats were full.... When I ran my dropzone there was a year that I was the only pilot that could fly the 182.... So one of the guys would have his dad come over in his "Champ" so I'd get a jump in .... The champ is really small 2place front and rear seat plane.... I'd be in the rear seat and still got out with little trouble....

You spot with the door closed and when it's time to go have the pilot pull back the power and kick right rudder.... The door will "fall open" One hand on the door frame and one on the door and go...

To make it "Legal" have the pilot "declare" a "emergency" and tell you to get out...

Killer......
PS; Watch out for the seatbelts

[scdrnr 0]

Cessna regular door exits are not difficult at all.

Removing the co-pilot seat is probably a bigger advantage than removing the door. Depending on their size, two jumpers can sit on the back seat and still maintain weight and balance - have the pilot check it out thoroughly for his airplane. If the seat needs to stay in, slide it all the way forward. If you are going solo, sit up front and slide the seat all the way back on jumprun.

On exit have the pilot fly about 60kts, no flaps, and give a power cut to 1500-1800 rpm. Pop the door handle and push the door out enough to get your feet on the landing gear strut (you'll be facing sideways to rearward) then use your left shoulder to shove the door aside as you roll out facing rearward. Don't push off with your feet - just let your body pivot over them so you don't hit the gear. Protect your handles!

As far as keeping it all legal, the pilot only needs to call the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the airspace on the phone 1 hr prior to jumping. Give them the location, altitude, and time. Then the pilot must call them on the radio before jumping. As long as you aren't over a congested area on the ground (requires waiver) or an airport (requires airport management permission) the FAA does not care where you land. Finding permission on private property is best, and not that hard actually. If landing on public property, such as a park or open space area, be sure to check local regs. Assume that any rules prohibiting hangliding or paragliding will apply to you as well. You'd be surprised how often it isn't covered at all. Use common sense though - don't be the one who gets a rule to be made (think: early morning- no one around).

So basically just read FAR part 105 and WATCH YOUR HANDLES. You don't need a DZ to go on a skydive, jumping out of a variety of small airplanes over new places is lots of fun! Just think it through and be safe.

[scdrnr 0]

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A notam has to be filed with the FAA that you be jumping over a specific area at a specific time unless it's a DZ

This is a common misconception. NOTAMs are only required for waivered jumps such as airshows and demo's.

A person may request a NOTAM from Flight Service for any jump, but more than likely they won't bother to issue it, unless it is required by FAR 105.21 and AC 91-45C or the location will be subject to frequent and repeated parachute operations. Usually the request must be made 48 hrs in advance because dissemination can be slow.

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There are no DZ's that will let you fly your own plane to jump from.

Most DZ's have no authority to restrict anyone from using the airspace above the DZ or using the landing area. Generally, if airport management allows parachuting at all, they would be hard-pressed to stop you. You may or may not be exempt from insurance and other requirements if you are a private non-commercial operation.

I'm not advocating inserting a personal Cessna jump into a busy established DZ, just clarifying that most DZ's don't have this kind of control over who uses the airport/airspace. An established DZ may be an excellent landing area for private cessna jumps if, for example, the DZ is closed during a weekday and you find a free-ride to altitude.

To be completely legal, you would still need to notify ATC by phone first, unless you had some arrangement with the DZ to "piggy-back" onto their established ATC procedures.

[scdrnr 0]

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You are supposed to get approval for flight with door removed. I have never been checked on that, but it is almost an automatic process after asking for it.

Check AC 105-2C for a list of airplanes approved for flight with door removed. Most Cessna's are included. The pilot only needs to ensure that it is done in compliance with any proceedures listed in the Operating Handbook. In some planes, 172 included, the pilot needs to wear an approved parachute if the door is removed.

[tecdady 0]

i had a feeling it wasnt the god aweful big deal that it was made out to be in the first replys. scdrnr, thanks for all the info. someday after i get some experience under me, i might look into jumping into paintball scenario games. that is kind of another reason i was interested. since i have such a large foot in the paintball industry, it was just a natural curiosity. and no, people wont be allowed to shoot at me :P the bigger scenarios that are military themed, or futurshock type, usually have cool demos to start them off like jumping into them, or they might have choppers land etc. etc.
chris

Day-Day that CRAAAAAAAZY bitch is out there again!!!

[EDYDO 0]

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cool demos to start them off like jumping into them

This is a whole new question and not so simple.

Ed

[lummy 4]

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This is a whole new question and not so simple.

ehhh.... waste of breath, someone gave him what he wanted to hear. It's just a matter of time til he's back asking how to fly a sub 150 stilleto so he can swoop.

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[skydude 0]

Have 8 jumps like this, just takes extra "be careful" time! Had one where 3 of us exit and I'm under canopy looking for our 3rd ... and notice him up really high ... wondering why he dumped so high ... and once on the ground got the real story ... his pc caught and basicly static lined him ... thankfuly it did not "stay caught" that was scarey !

Is it Bridge Day Yet ? :-)

[Ron 7]

Remove the door or don't do it.

It is difficult and risky if you don't know what you are doing.

Plus, It would be very easy for the pilot to stall the plane trying to help/watch.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Tonto 1]

With you there...

There was a fatal about 10 years back when a skydiver with about 15 jumps tried to "AFF" his friend's 1st jump from about 4500 from a C172. Can't argue with someone who knows they're right.

Besides. What's the worst that could happen, right?

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[darkwing 4]

I am strongly with the guys who say you can do it with the door in place, but definitely recommend removing the door. Removing the door is easy to do, and eliminates some major problem areas. I have jumped with the door in place, and I wouldn't do it again.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[billvon 2,454]

>Is it possible and safe to get a ride with him and jump out using a regular cessna door?

Yes and no.

Yes it is quite possible to do, if there is reason to do it.

No, because if you are dealing with a pilot/owner/situation where taking the door off (which GREATLY reduces the chances of damage to the aircraft and serious injury) is a big deal, other, more important safety issues (like knowing how to spot, being able to spot, making the ATC call, clearing the area) are likely to be a big deal too. And you can only make so many mistakes on a given jump before they add up to an injury or worse.

If Jim Wallace was setting up a demo and had some reason to keep the door on (say, the jump took place far from the airport and he needed the efficiency) then I wouldn't worry about it much. If someone just knew some guy with a plane and figured it couldn't be that hard to talk him into letting someone jump out, then I'd worry a lot. Too much will get overlooked.