The WFFC Thief.

[RhondaLea 3]

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Sometimes the gullible or kind are taken in by unscrupulous people.

Gullibility and kindness are not a prerequisite to being taken in by the personality-disordered. Narcissists and sociopaths are slick and clever, and most of them are quite capable of selling swampland in Florida.

The hallmark and defining characteristic of these two personality disorders is lack of empathy.

A mentally ill person on the proper meds will show appropriate remorse for inappropriate behavior while off his or her meds.

Someone who lacks empathy may occasionally pretend to remorse, but only as the preamble to justifying his heinous behavior.

Sociopaths and narcissists are generally considered untreatable for a variety of reasons, and they go through life extracting a price from everyone they meet. The mentally ill are treatable and can live a normal life without being a constant drain on others.

Given the choice--based on personal experience--I would choose as a friend one who is mentally ill rather than one who lacks empathy.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[RhondaLea 3]

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If I were to get to "rock bottom" again, there's no guarantee I'd be alive to make it back up from there. [...] To allow someone to get to rock bottom may indeed kill them. And that would suck. Tough love doesn't work on cancer, diabetes, or whooping cough...and it doesn't work with brain/chemical imbalances. Medical treatment does.

I live with an illness (Hashimoto's thyroiditis/hypothyroidism) that manifests in myriad symptoms (mental and emotional are at bottom of the checklist) which include clinical depression and dementia.

As the disease progressed without treatment, I alternated between hyperthyroid and hypothyroid symptoms (including startling weight loss and gain with no change in eating habits), and I was misdiagnosed with (among other, lesser illnesses) multiple sclerosis (as to the physical symptoms) and multiple personality disorder (as to the mental symptoms). As it turns out, I have neither.

My disorder is autoimmunine, so as my thyroid is progressively destroyed, my meds must be adjusted (three times just since 2001). In addition, stress of any kind (as well as estrogen), affects the response of my body to the medication, so that even the "correct dose" isn't always in sync with what my body needs.

If I were to stop taking my medication, I would die. Myxedema coma is fatal without intervention, and even when treated aggressively, the mortality rate is about 60%. I have twice come within days of being this ill, the first time because I was not on meds at all, the second as the result of medical malpractice.

I'm here to tell you that there is no discernible difference between "mental" illness and "physical" illness; they are one and the same, and both can kill if untreated.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[Fassaclack 0]

I understand the empathy some feel towards him. But remember one thing: It is HIS responsability to get help. He alone can choose not to put himself in situations where his troubles can do harm to others (an alcoholic can choose not to drive).

When I went through a whole bunch of troubles (death of a friend, separation, cancer and child custody issues all in one month) I felt I was dangerous and I stayed away from the DZ. When I returned, I opted not to jump. I just needed friendly faces. When I started jumping again, I went tandem with my brother a couple of times, until I was certain I would pull if I was by myself. I talked about my problems and I found support. It was MY responsability to make those choices.

If he chooses not to seek help or not to let friends help him, he has to accept the fact that people will not be very understanding. Help yourself first, then maybe you'll find help along the way.

I hope he gets better. But I also hope he'll find a way (later, when he feels better) to redeem himself. Sickness (depression or klepto or else) is a fact of life. It shouldn't excuse everything.

Then again, I agree that name calling is a bit immature and doesn't do any good.

My imaginary friend just called you Crazy ... What are you gonna do about it?

[RhondaLea 3]

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I understand the empathy some feel towards him. But remember one thing: It is HIS responsability to get help. He alone can choose not to put himself in situations where his troubles can do harm to others (an alcoholic can choose not to drive).

When I went through a whole bunch of troubles (death of a friend, separation, cancer and child custody issues all in one month) I felt I was dangerous and I stayed away from the DZ. When I returned, I opted not to jump. I just needed friendly faces. When I started jumping again, I went tandem with my brother a couple of times, until I was certain I would pull if I was by myself. I talked about my problems and I found support. It was MY responsability to make those choices.

If he chooses not to seek help or not to let friends help him, he has to accept the fact that people will not be very understanding. Help yourself first, then maybe you'll find help along the way.

I hope he gets better. But I also hope he'll find a way (later, when he feels better) to redeem himself. Sickness (depression or klepto or else) is a fact of life. It shouldn't excuse everything.

Then again, I agree that name calling is a bit immature and doesn't do any good.

I can see that you mean well, so this is not a criticism of you, but of an attitude that remains prevalent and dangerous.

Mental illness, by definition, does not permit choice.

Those with personality disorders can make choices--and do, to the detriment of those around them. Those with unmedicated or improperly medicated mental illness do not have the ability to make choices.

When I'm ill, I have no control over my loss of IQ, memory, and general cognition--in other words, I do not choose to be stupid--and even though I'm not so ill as to be totally unaware, I'm still nowhere near aware of how bad it is. In retrospect, when I'm properly medicated, I can look back and see it quite clearly, but not at the time it is happening.

We allow children small choices so that they can learn to make bigger choices, but the big choices are withheld from them until they have the ability to understand consequences. We protect them because they are not capable of true choice.

The same should be true of the mentally ill, but we do not take on the same responsibility for their welfare. We write them off, ridicule them, denigrate them, abuse them. There is a good reason for this: If a mentally ill person can choose, then by our will alone we can avoid mental illness. Edited to add: in skydiving, this is the "he died because he was dumb" argument. Unfortunately, in skydiving, not everyone who dies dies because they are dumb.

It is equally unfortunate that there are no bootstraps. Mental illness strikes where it will because it is an illness not a choice, and we are all equally vulnerable.

rl

Note: I will not address the issue of alcohol and drugs, except to say that both are means to self-induced transient mental impairment. A sober alcoholic or drug user can choose prior to drinking or drugging to give his car keys away, but once impaired, it is not a matter of choice. This is why the responsible among us take the keys of those who are too fucked-up to make decisions.

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[Luv2Fall 0]

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Sometimes the gullible or kind are taken in by unscrupulous people.

Gullibility and kindness are not a prerequisite to being taken in by the personality-disordered. Narcissists and sociopaths are slick and clever, and most of them are quite capable of selling swampland in Florida.

The hallmark and defining characteristic of these two personality disorders is lack of empathy.

A mentally ill person on the proper meds will show appropriate remorse for inappropriate behavior while off his or her meds.

Someone who lacks empathy may occasionally pretend to remorse, but only as the preamble to justifying his heinous behavior.

Sociopaths and narcissists are generally considered untreatable for a variety of reasons, and they go through life extracting a price from everyone they meet. The mentally ill are treatable and can live a normal life without being a constant drain on others.

Given the choice--based on personal experience--I would choose as a friend one who is mentally ill rather than one who lacks empathy.

rl

Amen.......that sums it up.......a voice of reason.

[wmw999 2,123]

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Wendy, nothing but respect for you at all, but in earlier posts I think you're somewhat misinformed. If I were to get to "rock bottom" again, there's no guarantee I'd be alive to make it back up from there.

I'm more familiar with alcoholism, specifically with someone who wasn't willing to comply. The path between respecting their rights and protecting them is a very fine one to discern and a difficult one to tread.

What should friends do when someone they know is on a destructive path, and talking, and confrontations, and the like don't seem to help? In the case of depression I can see sitting with them. But what if they leave, or won't go with you to the doctor or hospital? I really don't know.

I appreciate your perspective.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,400]

> If i would of caught him he would be 6 feetunder.

I doubt it. I've met a lot of DZ.commers in person. And even the ones who are nasty on line are much more considerate, humane and friendly in person.

[billvon 2,400]

>But remember one thing: It is HIS responsability to get help.

Depends on his illness. Some illnesses are debilitating enough that the sufferers cannot effectively 'fix themselves.'

>When I went through a whole bunch of troubles (death of a friend,
>separation, cancer and child custody issues all in one month) I felt I was
>dangerous and I stayed away from the DZ.

That's great. But keep in mind that your brain works like it's supposed to. Not all people's do.

>Sickness (depression or klepto or else) is a fact of life. It shouldn't excuse everything

Agreed. But it should be taken into account when someone is trying to decide to just yell at or kill this guy.

[Michele 1]

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What should friends do when someone they know is on a destructive path, and talking, and confrontations, and the like don't seem to help? In the case of depression I can see sitting with them. But what if they leave, or won't go with you to the doctor or hospital? I really don't know.

After all other options have been tried and failed, if one is a real, honest danger to themselves or others, and hasn't/can't take the steps to go to the Dr...involuntary hospitalization is a last resort, last considered option.

Alcoholism is not something I'm too familiar with; I've only a few casual acquaintances that are (as far as I know) alcoholic...and therefore, my input to their lives is minimial. I do, however, understand depression and suicide, so that's what I talk about...and, in general, mental illnesses.

What people who don't suffer - and who are not close with someone who does suffer - a mental illness or brain chemistry imbalance understand is that rational thought - i.e. choices - is not always possible. A+B+C=D becomes a+x+1+Q=23...and it's not always apparent that it's going on.

For example, most people who forget to pay a bill go ahead and pay it when they remember to...and, if necessary, pay the extra charges. In my world, when I'm properly medicated, that's exactly what I do. OTOH, there have been times in my life wherein I've forgotten to pay a bill, the lights get shut off, and it's all over, time to die. I'm so stupid that I can't even remember to pay the bill, I'm worthless and there is no excuse for me to continue living, I'm a waste of oxygen.

Pretty extreme, but that's happened. I ended up at 23, instead of D, and that is a direct result of not being able to think along typical patterns. What's startling, is when I can see it happening, and can do nothing to stop the downward spiral...those are the times that I step back, re-evaluate medication, and either updose or change meds. That's happened several times since my diagnosis and beginning meds...but there have been times, too, where I don't see the slide coming until I'm on my ass below bottom. And it's a difficult, slow, painful crawl back up to the bottom.

Imagine your life, Wendy, always having to start over. Relationships, marriages/boyfriends, work, career...always back at the beginning...never making forward progress. That's the life of an unmedicated, uncontrolled brain chemistry imbalanced person. The end comes fast and furious...and welcome.

I don't know much about kleptomania, so I can't speak directly to this issue. But I can say that the cycle of medication controlled/off medication is very well understood, and not always a matter of choice. Sometimes it's a matter of not having the $$ to get the rx (as in my case). Sometimes it's a matter of getting better, and thinking (wrongly) that they're "cured" or "can do without."

What society doesn't support is the concept that sometimes this isn't a willpower/character illness. It's a brain illness; like I said, along the lines of diabetes except a different organ. We, as part of society, need to learn more about it, so that it can be understood. Unlike Tom Cruise's thought, exercise, willpower, and better thinking cannot cure these sorts of illnesses. As a matter of fact, we'd never ask a diabetic if they were still using drugs; we'd not recommend more exercise, more willpower, "positive thinking" to get out of a chemical imbalance situation.

The difficulty arises, I think, when people don't realize that ending at 23 is actually a rational thought process for someone whose illness affects the very way they form thoughts, and the absolute conclusions they take action on.

I clearly remember feeling like there was nothing accomplished that day at work, so I didn't deserve to eat. WTF??? But that was 23 for me...suicide became an option when I realized I was so stupid that I couldn't even pay my bills.

In this particular case, to suggest that someone deserves to be "6 feet under" or that would've been the action a particular person took, speaks less to his issue and more towards the attitude of society at large, of which we are all a part of. Additional witch hunting can be seen in a recent post, which questions this person's website.

It's so very sad to see that; while I (and I am again repeating myself, over and over) don't excuse the behavior, I would urge again to sit back, look again at the situation, and show some compassion towards the person in question...because it may very well be that he has an uncontrolled brain imbalance that he really hasn't got any choice over and that leads him to 23 without even a thought of "is this right."

And yes, I will continue to speak out, and offer my own personal life and insights...even though every time I do, I get nastygrams from people about how I don't know what I'm talking about. LOL, I wish I didn't.

Wendy, again, complete respect for you. And I appreciate your POV, as well.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[RhondaLea 3]

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He's trying to rip people off with the prices of electronic equipment on his web site. We'd pay less in Canadian dollars for that stuff.... 6 months ago.

Did you miss the part where acknowledges this? He's donating more than half of his profit (66%) to victims of Katrina.

Having spent the better part of the afternoon reading his old posts, I believe him.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[CDRINF 1]

I have posted on this thread before. Based on my reading, I believe I am one of a few people on this now long thread who was actually a witness to this incident. This thread originally started as a search for facts. Interestingly it has turned into an argument between those who want to castigate the young man and those who want to defend him, and lately it has devolved into the finer points of what constitutes a mental illness or personality disorder. I agree that the mindless name calling serves no purpose, and that lots is being said by many who have no first hand knowledge of the facts. In that sense I am sorry to see this as the latest example of these forums, which started as a fun and interesting way to exchange information about skydiving, headed the way of rec.skydiving as a board for name calling, innuendo, and opinionated pontification unrelated to the original post.

In a perhaps vain attempt to get this thread back on topic, I will again state: I was there. Friends of mine had things stolen that were found in this man’s possession. That is a verifiable fact. So in the spirit of trying to stick to the facts I again pose the question:

What is the current legal status of this situation? What happened after the police took him away? Has he been charged with a crime? I am interested in how all this is playing out in the legal system. Is there anyone from Rantoul, or the WFFC staff that can shed light on this?

One poster made reference to what a slick lawyer might do with this case. That was a concern at the time of the apprehension. One of our group said, “Nothing is going to happen. If he does go to court, you won’t be able to get anyone to travel back to Rantoul to testify.” I think it was at this point that someone suggested putting his picture on Dropzone.com. The thinking was that if the legal system did not take him off the street, at least we could alert the skydiving community to be on the lookout for a thief. I am actually surprised that the info took so long to migrate from the Spanish forum to here.

There are some additional issues that bear looking into. This young man has a web site where he sells electronic gear and holds auctions. It even makes the claim “If we don’t have it, we will get it just ask.” He also has a thread on these forums with links to aid for Hurricane Katrina victims. His postings stopped abruptly when someone posted “Don’t I remember you from the WFFC?” Some have suggested that he might be using his web site to fence stolen property. There are also plenty of hurricane relief scams going around. There is no proof of this, and I am not accusing at this point, but boy, it sure makes you go “hmmmmm” given his demonstrated behavior. This may be worth investigating further.

The bottom line for me is that this man violated the trust of our community. He stole from fellow skydivers. If he does have a serious mental or emotional problem, I hope he gets help and that his friends will look out for him. Don't ask me to be his friend, or excuse his behavior, however. I don't know him from Adam, I just know what he did to my friends. In the near term, I do not want him at any drop zone or boogie where I am. If I see him, I will inform the DZO/organizers of what he did at WFFC 2005 and do my best to encourage that he be banned from the premises. That may sound harsh or unfair, but I want to protect myself and other skydivers. Many cultures and groups deal with violation of group norms by shunning the individual. Call it the “silent treatment,” “excommunication,” or “banishment,” it amounts to being ostracized and outcast from the group. If that sounds like a sophomoric, archaic, or medieval concept, look no further than our own sport or these forums, for that matter. We probably all know people who have been asked to leave our drop zone and not return. If the elected leadership of our “club” (USPA) decides that members have violated the clubs rules, ethics, or norms they kick the individual out of the club by revoking membership. There are some recent notable examples. On this website, individuals have been admonished, suspended, and even banished for breaking community rules that are far less serious than the crime of theft of personal property.

Again, I hope this man gets help, he has a problem, however you look at it. I hope justice is done, however our legal system determines. At this time, however, I don't want him around any DZ where he might steal from others again.

CDR

[packerboy 3]

Yeah I did miss that. But charging more and donating the profits is essentialy just donating other peoples money.

It's like these stars that auction off their personal belongings and donate the money... they are donating a t-shirt or a guitar, nothing else.. it's the fan who probably doesn't have millions that ends up donating the thousands of dollars.... it's a copout.

That being said.. he has the right to charge whatever he wants, it's up to the consumer whether or not to buy. No wrongdoing there.

--------------------------------------------------
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[Anvilbrother 0]

What is the name of his site. Some friends and I would like to look at his site to see if any there is any stolen gear there that we can recover.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[billvon 2,400]

>But charging more and donating the profits is essentialy just donating other peoples money.

Well, that's like claiming that the JFTC is basically worthless because it's just donating other people's money.

[packerboy 3]

Did I say worthless? I do think that the emphasis put on the whole thing being a charity makes a difference. The jumpers solicit donations and people donate to the charity. Some may be into it for the jump some may be into it for the charity... others both. But it is well known that the whole deal is for charity.

Slightly different than someone who knows jack shit about buying computers paying an extra $500 for computer all the while trhinking "Wow, that's nice.. this guy is going to donate HIS profits to a charity, and I'm getting a good PC for a good price."

Ericsonlinestoreforkatrinavictims.com would be more
like JFTC.

If JTFC marked up their products they sell exponentially and gave a percentage of the profits and kept a bit to line some pockets... well that'd be a different story. As far as I think JTFC is a not for profit thing.. am I wrong?

--------------------------------------------------
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[CDRINF 1]

His website:
http://erikgpeterson.com/

The link to his online "store" This is the one that says, "we will get it for you.
http://eriksonlinestore.com/

CDR

[Michele 1]

And from what I can see, the only skydive thing at his store is a gift certificate for a tandem jump....

Can we stop the witchhunt already? It's woefully childish, and does nothing beneficial for either the victims of his crimes or for him. Nothing.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[happythoughts 0]

It seems that people want this both ways.

Either
(1) He admits to having a mental illness with theft, but people are offering forgiveness based on this. The chances of donations going anywhere but his pocket are slim. The website is an additional scam.
(2) He doesn't have a mental illness. The donations will be forwarded.

[packerboy 3]

Based on the premise of this thread I would have to lean towards #1. The guy steals. Because of an illness? Seems so based on the information forwarded by his friends. That doesn't change the fact that he rips people off.

If I wanted to donate, I would donate.... then buy a cheap computer elsewhere.

--------------------------------------------------
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[CDRINF 1]

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And from what I can see, the only skydive thing at his store is a gift certificate for a tandem jump....

He was found with lots more than skydiving gear in his possesion. It is my understanding he had lots of new electronic gear that the police confiscated


***Can we stop the witchhunt already? It's woefully childish, and does nothing beneficial for either the victims of his crimes or for him. ***

The benefit is that we are trying to protect the larger community. I do not see how warning other skydivers to be wary when dealing with this individual constitutes a "witchhunt." It is warning to members of our community based upon observed behavior. We have an entire forum on this board for scam alerts to protect our community from fraud. Are they all verified scams, or do they merely look suspicious because they fit a pattern? I do not see how this is all that different.

CDR

[billvon 2,400]

>I do not see how warning other skydivers to be wary when dealing with
>this individual constitutes a "witchhunt."

When it's a warning it's not a witchhunt. When people threaten to kill this guy it becomes more of a witchhunt. As Michele has noted, this thread is starting to degenerate; let's not let it degenerate any further.

[Michele 1]

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I do not see how warning other skydivers to be wary when dealing with this individual constitutes a "witchhunt." It is warning to members of our community based upon observed behavior. We have an entire forum on this board for scam alerts to protect our community from fraud. Are they all verified scams, or do they merely look suspicious because they fit a pattern? I do not see how this is all that different.

I see your point. But 121 (now 122?) posts on this thread, a second thread, a third thread with at least one comment on it...photos of him...saying someone'd have put him 6 feet under...pulling his website apart...alluding to additional criminal behavior, and on and on. I've looked at the security/scam alerts...they're not 100+ posts long...if you can't see the difference in tonality and quality, then...well...I just don't know. I am sorry you're apparently a victim of him, and I hope you are remunerated appropriately.

Look. I firmly believe that if he is guilty of theft, he should be punished appropriately. I also think that if he has a mental illness, was on but is now off meds, he needs to get into counseling and back onto the meds which apparently worked before...one does NOT preclude the other, although one is far more productive than the other one.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[arlo 0]

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It is my understanding he had lots of new electronic gear that the police confiscated

is that a "fact" as you witnessed it in rantoul?

[CDRINF 1]

It is a fact that yes, I was told this by some of the staff involved shortly after the incident. Did I see this stuff with my own eyes, no. That is why I said it was "my understanding." So, if you want to split hairs...

...but then that gets back to my point several posts ago above. What are the subsequent facts? The original post asked two simple questions: Is there an update, and what became of the guy? After all these posts, we still do not have those answers.

CDR

[jose 0]

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are much more considerate, humane and friendly in person.

And would even buy you a beer....