Can you make a living as a tandem cameraman ?

[lintern 1]

I "HATE" my job (in electronic engineering) but skydiving is something I really enjoy.

So I've often thought about a career in skydiving.

I'm not able to be an instructor yet.

But I got talking about filming tandems last weekend.

I've tinkered about with Pinnacle Studio with some of my own skydiving footage and I enjoy the editing side of it as well.

The cameramen I was talking to at the weekend were telling me they make £50 for each video.

I'm not sure if they have to pay tax on their earnings ?

Anyway I worked out the number of videos I would have to do per week to earn the same as what I earn now.

Presuming the worse case scenario, that I have to pay tax on my earnings, I worked out that I would only have to film 9 tandems per week (in fact I would actually earn slightly more than I earn now).

I would seriously consider quiting my job to be a tandem cameraman, but at the same time I have some questions and concerns.

- would there be enough work for me all year round ?
- how would I cope earning nothing due to bad weather ?
- are there even any dropzones that employ full time cameramen ?
- if there are any dropzones with full time cameramen, then is it even likely they would have a a position for me and be interested in me ?

I would have to get my own equipment for filming (camera, camera helmet, wing suit etc.) and get some practice.

I was just wondering if a tandem cameraman could be a full job ?

[dragon2 0]

We have similar weather over here. IE it's not going to be a full time job year round.

The costs of getting your jump numbers up and getting the experience, all your own gear, the camera's, the editing gear (most dz's dont use a computer but a linear editing system, because of the speed), vcr's, dvd recorders, cd/mp3 players, mixing board, tv etc adds up real quick. Maybe you have to pay the dz a concession too.

I added everything up, and figured out I could do it, but only during the summer months. I'd need a different winter job.

I guess it helps if you're multi-rated, can do tandems etc, but still.

After taxes, insurance etc, not much left. Would be fun, but I can't do it financially

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[vpozzoli 0]

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I'm not sure if they have to pay tax on their earnings ?

Everybody has to pay tax on their earnings, in Europe as well in the USA. Just not everybody actually does. Like the choice of whether to jump or not this is a personal choice, and you personally assume all the associated risks.

Cheers,

Vale

[Ashtanga 0]

Depends on what you call a living?

[tdog 0]

Regardless of if you "can" make the numbers work, I don't know if I would do it... My friends who do it seem to always be on back to back loads and I never hear them talking about having fun or see them doing fun jumps...

Maybe it would be something you could do for a few months to take a vacation from reality.... But I would find another job that you enjoy so skydiving does not become a job you "hate"...

The person you should talk to is Quade on these forums, or goto his website www.futurecam.com. He videoed a 4way camp I was in, and I talked to him, and he seemed to strike the balance between fun and work.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

You know the difference between a tandem videographer and a large pizza is?











.The large pizza can feed a family of four.

[JohnMitchell 14]

Can you always return to your old field, electronic engineeering, after a year or two off? Then it's like skydiving, you do have a reserve.

I've got a weekday job and jump/work on the weekends. Several folks I know make a living jumping, but in the Pacific Northwest, weather makes "full time skydiver" a part time job.

Some people have had excellent careers as skydivers, but it's a long way to top pay in this sport. Nothing wrong with a minimalist life style, though.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Nothing wrong with a minimalist life style, though.

I'm not ready to make the leap and cutaway, but as I prepare to move back to my native Canada (I'm off to Vancouver BC in less than 3 weeks from now) you better believe that I'm re-evaluating the physical possessions I've needed in the past in order to come closer to that minimalist lifestyle. I've got my two skydiving rigs, two base jumping rigs, ground launching setup, hockey equipment, skiing gear, bicycle, rock climbing gear, basic tools, movies, music, some art, computers, books and basic furniture. Everything else is either in the process of being sold, given away or thrown away.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[mr2mk1g 10]

Just remember that in the UK you're required to have at least 200 jumps before you even make your first camera jump ever.

Say you spent your next 80 jumps working with a camera flyer who was willing to teach you (or at least jump with an RW jumper + a get tips off a camera guy on the ground) then it may just be possible for you to start filming people at that point.

If:
You're able to demonstrate you have the skills to keep the tandem pair safe - ie good belly skills.

You're able to demonstrate the ability to get the shot when you need to.

Probably also you're able to find a tandem master/DZ who is willing to take you on as a protege'

A friend has just done essentially this. He started doing tandem video at about 220 jumps because he had a tandem master friend who was willing to let him try it and he had the £££ to throw at the gear.

Some of the video I've seen is fucking scary. I mean seriously scary.

He's now on the video rotation for at least 2 DZ's so it is possible. The last video I saw was a passable product and with the camera he has you'd have to be a blind monkey not to be able to get at least a good couple of shots.

So that's the skill set you're going to have to have before you can even do your first tandem jump. 80 jumps at £18/ jump is £1440.

Next you will need equipment. If you're going second hand say at least £400 for the video. £400 for the stills. £300 for a new helmet. £200 minimum for some accessories bite switches, mounts and other crap. That's £1300 on gear before you think about a suit or media to record onto.

So figure £2740 before travel and misc. or any coached jumps you'll need to get your skills up.

Sorry if this sounds like I'm beating up on your idea - I'm just trying to give you a realistic idea of what you're going to have to shell out before the CCI is actually going to even listen to you. If you're serious, start coached jumps now (more ££ unless you have a friend) and start ingratiating yourself with some tandem masters and the CCI.

Also check out a thread in the camera forum about all the little things about camera flying - the pro's there do a much better job of outlining the money involved in the equipment than I have done.

Sorry this probably isn't the answer you wanted to hear.

[justchrisdsp 0]

i personally dont think it is a good way to earn a living, but i find that it is great for extra cash, i do videos and coaching on the weekends as a college job, and its great for that, i dont see it being my only source of income in the future but it will definately be great supplemental income

The only bad skydive is your last!
chris "sonic wookie" harwell
Piedra-belluda-roja Rodriguez

[peregrinerose 0]

Could you consider doing it part time on weekends and then decide from there if you want to quit your job for more permanent skydiving related work?

I have the same jump numbers as you, and would guess you'd probably need a lot more than 130ish jumps before any DZ would seriously consider you as a tandem videographer.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[riggerrob 558]

Canuck,

I like your philosophy.
Come visit us in Pitt Meadows (604) 465-7311 as soon as you land in Vancouver.

[riggerrob 558]

Several folks I know make a living jumping, but in the Pacific Northwest, weather makes "full time skydiver" a part time job.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

In the Pacific Northwest, this means working yourself to the point of exhaustion during the summer, and lean winters.
Hint: today is my first day "off" in three weeks.

During the past month, I worked as a: tandem, IAD, static-line and PFF instructor, repacked 30-plus reserves, shot a few Handy-Mount videos - edited them - taught ground school and desperately wished that I held an AME license (Aircraft Maintenance Engineer).
I used to pilot the jump plane (and loved it), but there is simply no time in my schedule this year.
There is also little time for fun jumps (only 3 so far this year).
The only reason I am a year-round professional skydiver is because I am also a Master Rigger and my boss owns a lot of student gear that needs a lot of maintenance.
I own a full set of equipment for doing outside video, but Handy-Mount pays better.

The bottom line is - if you want to become a professional skydiver - you had better hold all the ratings, be willing to work long hours and know how to live on a small salary.

[JohnnyD 0]

You make about 11 pounds per hour working as an engineer?
What are you engineering? Just curious so I know not to buy it.

[Canuck 0]

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Nothing wrong with a minimalist life style, though.

I've got my two skydiving rigs, two base jumping rigs, ground launching setup, hockey equipment, skiing gear, bicycle, rock climbing gear, basic tools, movies, music, some art, computers, books and basic furniture...

Dude, you've been down South too long and corrupted by American materialism if you think this list even remotely qualifies you as a minimalist...

Canuck

[CanuckInUSA 0]

okay the art must go!!! maybe a few other things too ...

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[jalisco 0]

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I've got my two skydiving rigs, two base jumping rigs, ground launching setup, hockey equipment, skiing gear, bicycle, rock climbing gear, basic tools, movies, music, some art, computers, books and basic furniture. Everything else is either in the process of being sold, given away or thrown away.

After that list, I'm trying to imagine what "everything else" might be...

[kelpdiver 2]

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I've got my two skydiving rigs, two base jumping rigs, ground launching setup, hockey equipment, skiing gear, bicycle, rock climbing gear, basic tools, movies, music, some art, computers, books and basic furniture...

Dude, you've been down South too long and corrupted by American materialism if you think this list even remotely qualifies you as a minimalist...

Haha- I was thinking the same, though my accounting of the overflowing closets (I actually use an entire second bedroom for this purpose) comes out about the same.

A more classical American would have an entire garage for the sporting gear. Urban dwellers have to make due some other way.

[immanence 0]

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... you better believe that I'm re-evaluating the physical possessions I've needed in the past in order to come closer to that minimalist lifestyle. I've got my two skydiving rigs, two base jumping rigs, ground launching setup, hockey equipment, skiing gear, bicycle, rock climbing gear, basic tools, movies, music, some art, computers, books and basic furniture. Everything else is either in the process of being sold, given away or thrown away.

what the hell else is there, dude?

"where danger is appears also that which saves ..." Friedrich Holderlin, 'Patmos'

[linestretch 0]

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The bottom line is - if you want to become a professional skydiver - you had better hold all the ratings, be willing to work long hours and know how to live on a small salary.

that's what has worked for me. If you're good enough at it, you save enough to fuck off during the winter and not work (like it's a choice).

my pics & stuff!

[Eule 0]

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I "HATE" my job (in electronic engineering)

The Prince of Darkness takes another one...

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The cameramen I was talking to at the weekend were telling me they make £50 for each
video.

I know that skydiving is generally more expensive in Rightpondia, but that seems like a lot - it's
about US$90. The _retail_ cost of still+video for a tandem runs something like US$75 here;
I don't know how much of that the cameraman usually gets but I'd guess US$50 plus or minus.

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I'm not sure if they have to pay tax on their earnings ?

Everybody is _supposed_ to. In the UK it may be different, but in the US it can basically go one of
two ways: you are an employee of some firm or person, and the tax gets taken out of each paycheck
before you get it, OR you are a "consultant" or "independent contractor" and have to set aside the
tax yourself. There are other possibilities but these two are probably the most common. Being a
consultant and getting your entire check does allow you to manage your money independently of the
government, but it's pretty easy to forget that 15%-25% of that check isn't really there because
you'll have to send it in later. Then there is the "lunch bag full of cash" method...

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Presuming the worse case scenario, that I have to pay tax on my earnings, I worked out that I
would only have to film 9 tandems per week (in fact I would actually earn slightly more than I earn now).

Again, things will be different in the UK, but I figure it like this. US$50,000 might be a good gross
for an electrical engineer a few years out of college. At $50 a jump, that's 1000 jumps a year to
gross the same, or just over 19 jumps a week. If you're at a 182 dropzone that only operates on
the weekends, you're probably not going to get this many. If you were at a dropzone with larger
aircraft and longer hours in the southern US (operating more of the year), you might.

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- how would I cope earning nothing due to bad weather ?

Do something else. For instance, one video guy at my DZ had previously managed restaurants, and
his plan was to go somewhere that gets busy in the winter, like a ski resort town, and work in a
restaurant or club there. Maybe you could do consulting on electronic projects. This is more for
the winter than the random weekend with bad weather, though.

At the DZ I go to, all of the video guys and instructors have 9 to 5 jobs during the week, and then
jump on the weekends. The only person with a full-time job there is the DZO.

I don't want to get too personal, but do you hate doing electronics, or do you hate doing electronics
for that particular firm? If the former, I don't know what to tell you, but if the latter, maybe you can
tie in to skydiving somehow? Go to work for somebody like Alti-2 or Airtec or Vigil - design it, lay it
out, solder it, flash it, and jump it. I know those firms are not in the UK but you get the idea. Or,
design your own handy widgets for skydivers and sell them.

Good luck!

Eule

PLF does not stand for Please Land on Face.

[StevePhelps 0]

I usually make about $400-$500 a weekend at our small Cessna DZ from April through October just doing video. We had no paying videos last January and a handful in Dec and Feb.

Then to top it all off, our Cessna has been down 3 out of the last 4 weekends with a prop strike. It may be down this weekend as well, although we're hopeful it will be up. That means no (or very little) skydiving income in a month (September) that is usually very good in OK.

My suggestion is do as I did 31+ years ago. Marry a woman who has a job! A flexible second job such as web design, illustrating, etc., has helped as well.

[britboynz 0]

Come to New Zealand - vidiots can and do make a living out of skydiving in NZ.

Most of the DZ's in NZ are geared towards the backpacker/traveller tandem market and are very slick, professional outfits. Taupo (centre of the North Island) is the worlds largest tandem dropzone in the world with three operators (2 have PAC 750's, the other has a Cessna). At the height of summer its not unusual for my DZ to do 200 tandems in one DAY in Taupo.

Remember that the work is seasonal, the tourist season in NZ starts in Nov/Dec and finishes around March/April - a lot of guys work in NZ for the summer, then travel back to somewhere like the states or europe and work the summer in the northern hemisphere. Most DZ's seem prepared to assist with work permits (which you'd need to work in NZ).

Russ

[lintern 1]

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The cameramen I was talking to at the weekend were telling me they make £50 for each
video.

I know that skydiving is generally more expensive in Rightpondia, but that seems like a lot - it's
about US$90. The _retail_ cost of still+video for a tandem runs something like US$75 here;
I don't know how much of that the cameraman usually gets but I'd guess US$50 plus or minus.

They charge £90 for a tandem video and from what the cameraman was telling me he makes £50 from it.

£90 is about the going rate for tandem videos in the UK.

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I don't want to get too personal, but do you hate doing electronics, or do you hate doing electronics for that particular firm?

I hate doing electronics and I especially hate doing electronics for my particular firm.

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US$50,000 might be a good gross for an electrical engineer a few years out of college.

I finished university (part time) with a 2.1 honours degree 5 years ago, I've been in full time employment since the age of 16 yet I'm on £20k gross.

Its extremely unlikely Ill ever get anymore than that.

They dont even give the yearly cost of living rise of a few percent.

My job sucks and it definitely hasnt been worth all the hard work its taken me to get to this stage (i.e. qualifications and experience).

I utterly regret getting into engineering.

For the past 3 or 4 years I've really wanted to be a pilot but cannot afford £80,000 for the training !

I got a rare oppourtunity a few months back to go through a selection process for sponsored pilot training, but I failed on level 2 . The application itself cost me a non refundable £165.

The pass rate for the pilot sponsorship is 2%.

Its hardly surprising they want "the best of the best of the best of the best" considering they are paying £80,000 to train each pilot.

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Go to work for somebody like Alti-2 or Airtec or Vigil - design it, lay it out, solder it, flash it, and jump it

At least that would be more interesting than what I do now, but how difficult would it be to get into those companies

[grue 1]

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Everybody has to pay tax on their earnings, in Europe as well in the USA. Just not everybody actually does.

That's not exactly true. You may or may not have to FILE, you may or may not have to PAY, too. I have filed every year since I started working as a kid, but I have only actually had to pay taxes one year since I was 18, and that's because I had taken a year off of school to work for Microsoft and made about 25 times what I did most other years. If you make very very little money, you can make so little that you don't have to pay taxes.

cavete terrae.