Choosing The Size of Reserve to Buy...

[somethinelse 0]

I've been looking at the classified for Complete container Systems and need some good insight to help plan for buying my first rig.

So what IS the general rule of thumb for choosing a reserve size in comparasion to the size of the Main Parachute that you'll be using?

I want to seriously start getting my first rig... I will be buying a 190 Main(don't know what type, tho)- and would like the good all-round purpose Wings container...

Thanx

LuLu.

[mnealtx 0]

As large as you can get?

Seriously, if you have to use it, you're going to be lower than usual, on an unfamiliar canopy with different flight/flare charactistics than the main you're used to, and with about 5 gallons of adrenaline flowing.

Ruling out all the other possibilities of injury, tight/obstructed landing area, do you REALLY want to be flying a canopy that's any smaller than necessary?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[shropshire 0]

Big's good.... huge is better.

But it must fit into your rig... What does your rigger suggest?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[NWFlyer 2]

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I've been looking at the classified for Complete container Systems

While you sometimes can find the perfect setup that way, I hope you're not restricting yourself to just that section of the site. Putting together a complete system piecemeal may be more of a pain, but you might be more likely to get exactly what you want and you may be able to get a better deal.

Also, if you are having trouble finding one particular piece of your system, post a wanted ad. The more specific you can be about what you want the better. That's how I found my main (or should I say, it found me) even though I thought there weren't any on the market at that time.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[JohnMitchell 14]

I like a 1:1 loading on my reserve, or less. Reserves are f-111 7 cells that don't flare or land quite as sweet as a ZP 9 cell. Also, you may be injured, unconcious, and/or off the DZ on your reserve, and will most likely be low and jazzed up. It's nice to have a lower wing loading at a time like that, no time to be playing test jumper.

Too high of a wing loading may make line twists unrecoverable. Really bad news if it's on your reserve.

[somethinelse 0]

NWFlyer
Thanx!
I probably CULD afford to piece a rig together bit by bit more quickly. Posting a Wanted Ad is a GOOD idea too.

[somethinelse 0]

JohnMitchell
Good points ALL. Defintiely right about BIG is BETTER.
Thanx, I appreciate your insights.
LuLu.

[tso-d_chris 0]

Quote

I've been looking at the classified for Complete container Systems and need some good insight to help plan for buying my first rig.

So what IS the general rule of thumb for choosing a reserve size in comparasion to the size of the Main Parachute that you'll be using?

I want to seriously start getting my first rig... I will be buying a 190 Main(don't know what type, tho)- and would like the good all-round purpose Wings container...

Thanx

LuLu.

It is a good idea to keep your reserve WL in the 1:1 area.

It doesn't make sense to downsize a reserve like a main. Either it's big enough or it's not. Reserves should be chosen with the worst case in mind. You may not be flying at the top of your ability when you have to use it.

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[MrBrant 0]

something you may also want to bring up with somebody more knowledgeable than me:

Bigger is better - but only to a certain point.

a reserve >> than your main could cause you troubles also. (a 2-out for example).


For instance, my reserve is 60 sqft larger than my main. (main is a 188, reserve is a 248). Although I really like having the big reserve, it could cause problems for me if I were to ever have a 2-out.

Usually container sizes wont let you do something like the above, but might be something worth giving thought to.

Again, talk about this to somebody knowledgeable that you trust. (a real-life somebody )

[hexadecimal 0]

Does your container look something like this?

[GravityGirl 0]

Agreed with the 1:1 range. But keep in mind if this is a smaller jumper, bigger is not always better.

If the 190 is the suitable size main, then the reserve should be compatible with that main. Depending on your exit weight that could mean a 176 - 210.

So what IS your exit weight?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[JohnMitchell 14]

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Usually container sizes wont let you do something like the above, but might be something worth giving thought to.

Infinity rigs are made with a container to fit your main-reserve combination, whatever it may be.

• Quote

[kelpdiver 2]

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Usually container sizes wont let you do something like the above, but might be something worth giving thought to.

Infinity rigs are made with a container to fit your main-reserve combination, whatever it may be.

Same for Wings, which was mentioned as the target container.

[ChrisL 2]

I like big.

My main is a 188 but my reserve is a PD218

I'm not overly concerned about having the teeny weeny rig.

I LIKE the look of my Vector 3. If its too small nobody will see it

__

My mighty steed

[MrBrant 0]

pfft. that's only 30 sqft differnce

u got nuttin on me!

[tso-d_chris 0]

I am personally of the opinion that reserves should not be chosen with a two out in mind. The likelihood of any given jumper experiencing a two out are pretty low, even if nowhere near impossible.

I've seen more cases of people landing reserves while partially or completely incapacitated. It is these situations for which I believe larger reserve sizes are better.

Unfortunately, there is no way to choose gear that is best suited for every possible scenario, so it is all about examining and calculating risks.

Just my $.02.

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[jonstark 8]

How fast do you intend to freefall and how much will you weigh? Now; decide based on whether the reserve in question is certified for use in this area.

jon

[billvon 2,475]

>I am personally of the opinion that reserves should not be
>chosen with a two out in mind.

Reserves should be chosen such that they will land you safely while unconscious. Mains should then be sized so that they are compatible with the reserve, not the other way around. If a jumper chooses to go to a smaller main, then he risks an incompatible two-out configuration - but that's still much better than having a dangerously small reserve.

[dragon2 0]

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I am personally of the opinion that reserves should not be chosen with a two out in mind. The likelihood of any given jumper experiencing a two out are pretty low, even if nowhere near impossible.

I've seen more cases of people landing reserves while partially or completely incapacitated. It is these situations for which I believe larger reserve sizes are better.

Unfortunately, there is no way to choose gear that is best suited for every possible scenario, so it is all about examining and calculating risks.

Just my $.02.

I totally agree.


And I've HAD a 2 out downplane on me even when they "shouldn't have" (square 230 and 256 reserve, wingload next to nothing).

I doubt very much my vengeance will play nice with ANY reserve, so I don't even take 2 out in account. Chances are you are only flying the reserve anyway, I want a reserve I can handle. Period.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[pchapman 262]

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So what IS the general rule of thumb for choosing a reserve size in comparasion to the size of the Main Parachute that you'll be using?

Some thoughts that focus more on the real world than the ideal world:

-- You'll get an idea of common size ranges (relative to the main canopies) in the Classifieds anyway, if you are looking at buying used.

-- Let's face it, very often the reserve size people buy is "the smallest they dare".

Someone might figure that they can handle a PD143 without any real problem, and then buy a 126 (the next size down) because they really want something small on their back, and that way they should be able to handle it well enough. After all, for main canopies, if you're really comfortable with a given size, then trying out one size smaller, if one is being careful, is normally considered OK. (Although for reserves there's the added complication that they don't fly like most mains.)

On the other hand, the person who thinks they'll be comfortable on a 143 may decide they'll go one step the other way, up to a 160, for that extra margin in case of a bad landing area, unconscious AAD save, injury, etc., and that the bit of additional bulk shouldn't be a problem.

It all depends on one's personal philosophy.

-- From the idea mentioned above, of hoping to 'be able to handle one size smaller', one can make this rule of thumb:

The reserve should be no more than one size smaller than the main, for novice to intermediate jumpers.

I think that may be reasonably true, but open to attack because it is so short!

-- Time is a factor. A novice may plan to keep a rig for a few years, and after the first season or two downsize the main. They don't want too big and bulky a rig. So they buy a rig with a relatively small reserve that they think they'll feel comfortable with next season... despite being a little uncomfortable with it this season. It's a calculated risk that some accept.

Reserve sizing ends up being part of the whole issue of long range planning of downsizing progression and how long to keep a particular rig or main canopy.

-- Despite all the differences in personal preferences, what is a decent wing loading?
A couple experienced people mentioned a 1:1 wing loading. That sounds quite reasonable and fits well with what manufacturers say.

PD's recommended maximums:
Most of the time it is
0.85 for Novice
1.0 for Intermediate
1.15 for Advanced
1.4 for Expert
[Based on their weight vs. canopy chart. These numbers hold for most sizes but don't apply in some cases for very large or small canopies.]

Aerodyne for their Smart recommends:
1.0 for Novice & Intermediate
1.4 for Advanced (but that seems to correspond to PD's Expert category, as Aerodyne doesn't have an Expert category.)

Precision's R-Max: Couldn't find any info on their web site.

There are no specific definitions of categories like Novice or Intermediate, however.

(I won't get into issues concerning high wing loadings with older designs of reserves, or the desirability of lighter wing loadings for very light jumpers.)

-- One answer in this thread suggested that mains should be sized to be compatible with the reserve in case of a two-out. For safety's sake, that seems true on its own. But in practice I don't see people paying attention to that factor. Or at least, other factors dominate the decision.

(It can be argued that for very small main canopies, a bigger reserve is better, for the much more likely case of a plain reserve ride, compared to the rare but dangerous 2-out situation.)

A lot more could be written on the reserve size subject to provide a real guide to novice jumpers.

[sundevil777 94]

Anybody remember Lewmonst's reserve ride that busted her up so bad?. As I remember she had to put it down in a neighborhood with obstacles everywhere.

I know from experience what it is like to sink an F-111 7 cell at 1.0 WL, much like an accuracy canopy. I don't recommend doing that at a WL around 1.5

There is absolutely nothing wrong with carrying enough nylon on your back for the rest of your jumping future so that you have a WL around/close to 1:1 The only thing that makes going to a lower WL than that unreasonable is the desire to not be pushed backwards during normally breezy days.

Don't let anybody convince you that it will seem too bulky/cumbersome/not worth it when you are more experienced.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[tso-d_chris 0]

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>I am personally of the opinion that reserves should not be
>chosen with a two out in mind.

Reserves should be chosen such that they will land you safely while unconscious. Mains should then be sized so that they are compatible with the reserve, not the other way around. If a jumper chooses to go to a smaller main, then he risks an incompatible two-out configuration - but that's still much better than having a dangerously small reserve.

Very well said. Thanks, Bill.

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