AggieDave 6 #76 August 2, 2006 QuoteI read your post, and I assume your historical information is accurate. if the FAA has shifted policy, past performance may not be indicative of future performance. Was the shift in policy this month? If not then as of last month its business as usual.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #77 August 2, 2006 Quote..remember that it also is a violation of the FARs to carry people who are drunk or otherwise intoxicated. (I think I am understanding your sarcasm but please tell me if I am not.) If you are telling me that people are impaired by drugs or alcohol while jumping at the WFFC, I believe you. However, I must not be worth a damn at noticing it, because I haven't seen anyone acting obviously impaired. If anyone else does I wish they would tell me. And if you see it and I don't I wish you would tell the aircraft folks. You will get a lot of support from them I am sure. If the aircraft hasn't taken off yet it's easy enough to give them the boot and an education, with no serious consequences if they actually learn from it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 644 #78 August 2, 2006 Can you post a picture of yourself so we will recognize you when we're suddenly faced with "safety issues" at an event. We want to make sure it gets handled accordingly of course! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #79 August 2, 2006 Quote What kind of person are you? No one wants to answer my question(s)? Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wwarped 0 #80 August 2, 2006 Quote If you are telling me that people are impaired by drugs or alcohol while jumping at the WFFC, I believe you. However, I must not be worth a damn at noticing it, because I haven't seen anyone acting obviously impaired. If anyone else does I wish they would tell me. And if you see it and I don't I wish you would tell the aircraft folks. You will get a lot of support from them I am sure. If the aircraft hasn't taken off yet it's easy enough to give them the boot and an education, with no serious consequences if they actually learn from it. too bad you know what a BASE rig looks like... back to the topic of this thread, Gary asked what behavior would people report (or take action against). thoughts? who else would do the same? who would not? would anybody contact an FAA rep? DON'T PANIC The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #81 August 2, 2006 If I saw the pilot doing a line or chugging some beers then walking out to the plane to fly it you better believe that I'd be going to the plane owner first or the FAA if the pilot is the owner of the aircraft.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 460 0 #82 August 2, 2006 QuoteIf I saw the pilot doing a line or chugging some beers then walking out to the plane to fly it you better believe that I'd be going to the plane owner first or the FAA if the pilot is the owner of the aircraft. Hey, but the pilot is just having a good ole time! Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wwarped 0 #83 August 2, 2006 QuoteIf I saw the pilot doing a line or chugging some beers then walking out to the plane to fly it you better believe that I'd be going to the plane owner first or the FAA if the pilot is the owner of the aircraft. what if it was a jumper? DON'T PANIC The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites catfishhunter 1 #84 August 2, 2006 I'll answer it (again). If your putting someones lives at risk you can rest assured you better fix it or I'll find someone to fix it for you. I'm not skeered. The big talkers on here need to take the cotton out of their ears and put it in thier mouths. They haven't heard a word of what has been said. They heard FAA and where off and running. It is easier to hide behind/run with the pack then to stand on ones own convictions... MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #85 August 3, 2006 Right, I want to hear from those folks that said 'never'. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rwieder 0 #86 August 3, 2006 I'm with AD on this one. All of the DZO's i know take care of their own business, best that way. Now, it the DZO and The S&TA have been made aware od bad gear, past due annuals, brake fluid leaks or bad calipers, bad fuel, i could go on oand on, then it's time to alert a higher authority. If you do not, and someone gets badly injured or even expires, your an accessory to the crime. You will be interrogated by officials and deposed by lawyers, and quite possibly be eligible for a class action lawsuit, which would take years to pursue. Watch your back. Handle it through the proper channels, if that doesn't work, either find another DZO or be willing to do what you have to. We had a guy turn us in at SDH years ago, i can't remember the infraction, but he got no where. But he wasn't treated any differently either.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 14 #87 August 3, 2006 Anyone doing something repeatedly that would possibly kill someone else. In my day job, I have had to violate pilots who flew so poorly as to be a hazard to other pilots. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #88 August 3, 2006 QuoteFrom being at DZs. Ever heard of a "safety meeting?" In reality, I respect riggers a great deal and I'm just trying to add fuel to the dz.com fire regarding the selective use of self policing and regulations. Yes I have heard of "safety meeting". If you respect riggers a great deal why would lump them all together and infer that they are dopers? Not cool.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites zoobrothertom 5 #89 August 3, 2006 That pilot should offer to share!____________________________________ I'm back in the USA!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites htrammel 0 #90 August 3, 2006 I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the FAA is anything but your friend. You will find that out the hard way if they ever feel the need to investigate your work and you see how the guy you have a “relationship “ with will not give you a fair shake much less the benefit of the doubt. It is their job to find fault and culpability in ANY infraction. --------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry, I gotta take that one. I ALWAYS give people the benefit of the doubt and I ALWAYS give everyone a fair shake. It is NOT my job to find fault, it IS my job to ensure safety in aviation. It sounds like you have experience with one of the (increasingly fewer) FAA Inspectors who doesn't represent the majority of us. I'm sorry for that. But please, don't assume that all of us are just out to get you. We're just out to keep you from killing yourself or someone else. Blues, Henry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #91 August 3, 2006 Quoteit IS my job to ensure safety in aviation. Sort of like the last two ramp checks I've seen. They wanted to see some of the BS paperwork that had nothing to do with the safety of the AC. How about the FAA guy that grounded a plane that had a dent in the horizontal stab? After more then one A&P/IA had signed off on it. The same FAA inspector had "done a favor" and inspected that AC previously to see if there were anything that he would be worried about or liked to see fixed. The dent was there at the time. 6 months later that FAA inspector comes back and grounds that AC. Basically it seems like the FAA is more concerned with paperwork and the correctness of the paperwork then the actual safety of GA.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites htrammel 0 #92 August 3, 2006 How about the FAA guy that grounded a plane that had a dent in the horizontal stab? ----------------------------------------------------------------- Well, to clairify. No FAA inspector has the authority to ground an airplane. We can tell you what we saw, we can fill out a "Condition Report" and hang a copy of it on the aircraft. But it is the operator who is responsible for assuring airworthiness. If the dent had already been properly inspected and found to be within limits then they are absolutely within their rights to fire it up and fly it. Yes, we do check paperwork. It's one of the things I like least about the job. But I also have a solid background in GA, skydiving aircraft, biz jets and large 121 air carrier aircraft. You can bet I place a whole lot more emphasis on the actual condition of the aircraft. I'm sorry you had an experience with one of "those" inspectors. I'm just asking that we don't all get thrown into the same pigeon hole. Just like, as a jumper, I don't want to be stereotyped because of the actions of a few jumpers. Respectfully, Henry Trammel Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #93 August 3, 2006 But, but, HENRY - how can you be with the FAA AND have 2500 skydives? Doesn't the personal conflict make your head want to explode? How do you get to the plane without grounding yourself? If you talk to a newbie about safety, even as a skydiver, must you then chastise yourself for tattling to the FAA? Edit: If Peek asks you for a pin check, should we all complain about his "attitude"? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wwarped 0 #94 August 3, 2006 Quote I'm sorry you had an experience with one of "those" inspectors. I'm just asking that we don't all get thrown into the same pigeon hole. Just like, as a jumper, I don't want to be stereotyped because of the actions of a few jumpers. Respectfully, Henry Trammel the safest pilots plan for all contigencies. they make plans for the "worst case." they will do the same regarding FAA Inspectors as well. until an Inspector earns a reputation for being fair and reasonable, a pilot must expect the worst and act accordingly. remember, police always express a concern for public safety. they will state that is their main goal. it never FEELS that way when you are pulled over... apologies if you are trying to establish a better image for the FAA. DON'T PANIC The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites htrammel 0 #95 August 3, 2006 But, but, HENRY - how can you be with the FAA AND have 2500 skydives? ------------------------------------------------------------- Heh, I started jumping long before I was a Fed. I was an A&P mechanic trying my damndest to avoid any contact with one of those assholes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MattM 0 #96 August 3, 2006 Quote I was an A&P mechanic trying my damndest to avoid any contact with one of those assholes. LOL even the FAA themselves agree they are assholes. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites htrammel 0 #97 August 3, 2006 the safest pilots plan for all contigencies. they make plans for the "worst case." they will do the same regarding FAA Inspectors as well. until an Inspector earns a reputation for being fair and reasonable, a pilot must expect the worst and act accordingly. _____________________________________________________ Well said and true. I've been there. Hell, I'm still sort of that way with Feds I don't know. I suppose I was just trying to defend myself and those of us who are fair and reasonable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites htrammel 0 #98 August 3, 2006 LOL even the FAA themselves agree they are assholes. ____________________________________________________ No Matt, Just some of them. like SOME jumpers Not all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MattM 0 #99 August 3, 2006 QuoteLOL even the FAA themselves agree they are assholes. ____________________________________________________ No Matt, Just some of them. like SOME jumpers Not all. I know... I kid I kid. Thanks for your input here. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,683 #100 August 3, 2006 Quote I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the FAA is anything but your friend. You will find that out the hard way if they ever feel the need to investigate your work and you see how the guy you have a “relationship “ with will not give you a fair shake much less the benefit of the doubt. It is their job to find fault and culpability in ANY infraction. --------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry, I gotta take that one. I ALWAYS give people the benefit of the doubt and I ALWAYS give everyone a fair shake. It is NOT my job to find fault, it IS my job to ensure safety in aviation. It sounds like you have experience with one of the (increasingly fewer) FAA Inspectors who doesn't represent the majority of us. I'm sorry for that. But please, don't assume that all of us are just out to get you. We're just out to keep you from killing yourself or someone else. Blues, Henry Oh yes, just like the FAA was Bob Hoover's friend. www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181788-1.html... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 4 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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Hooknswoop 19 #79 August 2, 2006 Quote What kind of person are you? No one wants to answer my question(s)? Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wwarped 0 #80 August 2, 2006 Quote If you are telling me that people are impaired by drugs or alcohol while jumping at the WFFC, I believe you. However, I must not be worth a damn at noticing it, because I haven't seen anyone acting obviously impaired. If anyone else does I wish they would tell me. And if you see it and I don't I wish you would tell the aircraft folks. You will get a lot of support from them I am sure. If the aircraft hasn't taken off yet it's easy enough to give them the boot and an education, with no serious consequences if they actually learn from it. too bad you know what a BASE rig looks like... back to the topic of this thread, Gary asked what behavior would people report (or take action against). thoughts? who else would do the same? who would not? would anybody contact an FAA rep? DON'T PANIC The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #81 August 2, 2006 If I saw the pilot doing a line or chugging some beers then walking out to the plane to fly it you better believe that I'd be going to the plane owner first or the FAA if the pilot is the owner of the aircraft.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
460 0 #82 August 2, 2006 QuoteIf I saw the pilot doing a line or chugging some beers then walking out to the plane to fly it you better believe that I'd be going to the plane owner first or the FAA if the pilot is the owner of the aircraft. Hey, but the pilot is just having a good ole time! Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wwarped 0 #83 August 2, 2006 QuoteIf I saw the pilot doing a line or chugging some beers then walking out to the plane to fly it you better believe that I'd be going to the plane owner first or the FAA if the pilot is the owner of the aircraft. what if it was a jumper? DON'T PANIC The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 1 #84 August 2, 2006 I'll answer it (again). If your putting someones lives at risk you can rest assured you better fix it or I'll find someone to fix it for you. I'm not skeered. The big talkers on here need to take the cotton out of their ears and put it in thier mouths. They haven't heard a word of what has been said. They heard FAA and where off and running. It is easier to hide behind/run with the pack then to stand on ones own convictions... MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #85 August 3, 2006 Right, I want to hear from those folks that said 'never'. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #86 August 3, 2006 I'm with AD on this one. All of the DZO's i know take care of their own business, best that way. Now, it the DZO and The S&TA have been made aware od bad gear, past due annuals, brake fluid leaks or bad calipers, bad fuel, i could go on oand on, then it's time to alert a higher authority. If you do not, and someone gets badly injured or even expires, your an accessory to the crime. You will be interrogated by officials and deposed by lawyers, and quite possibly be eligible for a class action lawsuit, which would take years to pursue. Watch your back. Handle it through the proper channels, if that doesn't work, either find another DZO or be willing to do what you have to. We had a guy turn us in at SDH years ago, i can't remember the infraction, but he got no where. But he wasn't treated any differently either.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #87 August 3, 2006 Anyone doing something repeatedly that would possibly kill someone else. In my day job, I have had to violate pilots who flew so poorly as to be a hazard to other pilots. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #88 August 3, 2006 QuoteFrom being at DZs. Ever heard of a "safety meeting?" In reality, I respect riggers a great deal and I'm just trying to add fuel to the dz.com fire regarding the selective use of self policing and regulations. Yes I have heard of "safety meeting". If you respect riggers a great deal why would lump them all together and infer that they are dopers? Not cool.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zoobrothertom 5 #89 August 3, 2006 That pilot should offer to share!____________________________________ I'm back in the USA!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
htrammel 0 #90 August 3, 2006 I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the FAA is anything but your friend. You will find that out the hard way if they ever feel the need to investigate your work and you see how the guy you have a “relationship “ with will not give you a fair shake much less the benefit of the doubt. It is their job to find fault and culpability in ANY infraction. --------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry, I gotta take that one. I ALWAYS give people the benefit of the doubt and I ALWAYS give everyone a fair shake. It is NOT my job to find fault, it IS my job to ensure safety in aviation. It sounds like you have experience with one of the (increasingly fewer) FAA Inspectors who doesn't represent the majority of us. I'm sorry for that. But please, don't assume that all of us are just out to get you. We're just out to keep you from killing yourself or someone else. Blues, Henry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #91 August 3, 2006 Quoteit IS my job to ensure safety in aviation. Sort of like the last two ramp checks I've seen. They wanted to see some of the BS paperwork that had nothing to do with the safety of the AC. How about the FAA guy that grounded a plane that had a dent in the horizontal stab? After more then one A&P/IA had signed off on it. The same FAA inspector had "done a favor" and inspected that AC previously to see if there were anything that he would be worried about or liked to see fixed. The dent was there at the time. 6 months later that FAA inspector comes back and grounds that AC. Basically it seems like the FAA is more concerned with paperwork and the correctness of the paperwork then the actual safety of GA.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
htrammel 0 #92 August 3, 2006 How about the FAA guy that grounded a plane that had a dent in the horizontal stab? ----------------------------------------------------------------- Well, to clairify. No FAA inspector has the authority to ground an airplane. We can tell you what we saw, we can fill out a "Condition Report" and hang a copy of it on the aircraft. But it is the operator who is responsible for assuring airworthiness. If the dent had already been properly inspected and found to be within limits then they are absolutely within their rights to fire it up and fly it. Yes, we do check paperwork. It's one of the things I like least about the job. But I also have a solid background in GA, skydiving aircraft, biz jets and large 121 air carrier aircraft. You can bet I place a whole lot more emphasis on the actual condition of the aircraft. I'm sorry you had an experience with one of "those" inspectors. I'm just asking that we don't all get thrown into the same pigeon hole. Just like, as a jumper, I don't want to be stereotyped because of the actions of a few jumpers. Respectfully, Henry Trammel Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #93 August 3, 2006 But, but, HENRY - how can you be with the FAA AND have 2500 skydives? Doesn't the personal conflict make your head want to explode? How do you get to the plane without grounding yourself? If you talk to a newbie about safety, even as a skydiver, must you then chastise yourself for tattling to the FAA? Edit: If Peek asks you for a pin check, should we all complain about his "attitude"? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wwarped 0 #94 August 3, 2006 Quote I'm sorry you had an experience with one of "those" inspectors. I'm just asking that we don't all get thrown into the same pigeon hole. Just like, as a jumper, I don't want to be stereotyped because of the actions of a few jumpers. Respectfully, Henry Trammel the safest pilots plan for all contigencies. they make plans for the "worst case." they will do the same regarding FAA Inspectors as well. until an Inspector earns a reputation for being fair and reasonable, a pilot must expect the worst and act accordingly. remember, police always express a concern for public safety. they will state that is their main goal. it never FEELS that way when you are pulled over... apologies if you are trying to establish a better image for the FAA. DON'T PANIC The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
htrammel 0 #95 August 3, 2006 But, but, HENRY - how can you be with the FAA AND have 2500 skydives? ------------------------------------------------------------- Heh, I started jumping long before I was a Fed. I was an A&P mechanic trying my damndest to avoid any contact with one of those assholes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattM 0 #96 August 3, 2006 Quote I was an A&P mechanic trying my damndest to avoid any contact with one of those assholes. LOL even the FAA themselves agree they are assholes. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
htrammel 0 #97 August 3, 2006 the safest pilots plan for all contigencies. they make plans for the "worst case." they will do the same regarding FAA Inspectors as well. until an Inspector earns a reputation for being fair and reasonable, a pilot must expect the worst and act accordingly. _____________________________________________________ Well said and true. I've been there. Hell, I'm still sort of that way with Feds I don't know. I suppose I was just trying to defend myself and those of us who are fair and reasonable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
htrammel 0 #98 August 3, 2006 LOL even the FAA themselves agree they are assholes. ____________________________________________________ No Matt, Just some of them. like SOME jumpers Not all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattM 0 #99 August 3, 2006 QuoteLOL even the FAA themselves agree they are assholes. ____________________________________________________ No Matt, Just some of them. like SOME jumpers Not all. I know... I kid I kid. Thanks for your input here. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #100 August 3, 2006 Quote I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the FAA is anything but your friend. You will find that out the hard way if they ever feel the need to investigate your work and you see how the guy you have a “relationship “ with will not give you a fair shake much less the benefit of the doubt. It is their job to find fault and culpability in ANY infraction. --------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry, I gotta take that one. I ALWAYS give people the benefit of the doubt and I ALWAYS give everyone a fair shake. It is NOT my job to find fault, it IS my job to ensure safety in aviation. It sounds like you have experience with one of the (increasingly fewer) FAA Inspectors who doesn't represent the majority of us. I'm sorry for that. But please, don't assume that all of us are just out to get you. We're just out to keep you from killing yourself or someone else. Blues, Henry Oh yes, just like the FAA was Bob Hoover's friend. www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181788-1.html... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
