Do a tandem before or after AFF 1 class?

[BelskyBlueEyes 0]

I have only done 1 tandem in my life, just a few weeks ago. My friend and I are starting AFF level 1 this Sunday. I am trying to decide to do a tandem on Saturday before class, or wait until after and THEN do the tandem. I thought if I waited to do the tandem after, I will have learned more and be able to pay closer attention to things I need to know when I do the AFF jump. Thought it might be wise to learn canopy technique while in tandem so when it does come to the first jump, I have a better idea of what to do, etc.

What do you think? Did you go straight into AFF jump, or did you do a few tandems first?

[kris2extreme 0]

I only did a single tandem before AFF... nearly 2 years before my AFF Level 1 jump.

I personally think the first tandem is great for the initial experience of a dive without having the ultimate responsibilities of the dive.

But once the ride to altitude, exit, freefall, and being under canopy all have been experienced once, I see no real reason to do anymore tandems if you were semi-comfortable with all of that and didn't completely freak out.

[MB38 0]

My first jump was AFF 1, I never made a tandem. It worked.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[labrys 0]

Quote

I thought if I waited to do the tandem after, I will have learned more and be able to pay closer attention to things I need to know when I do the AFF jump.

What do a tandem and an AFF jump have in common? If you've already done one tandem what will a second one teach you? Altitide awareness? I can't think of anything else...

Edit to add: I'd save the money for more AFF. YMMV.

Owned by Remi #?

[Reginald 0]

If you already did a tandem a couple of weeks ago than just focus on AFF now.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[yardhippie 0]

Unless youre going for tandem progression, stick with AFF, and then (not knowing your situation) I would still suggest AFF.
Ive got near 800 skydives and not 1 of them is a tandem. I prefer to keep it that way.

Be safe.

Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD
"What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me
"Anything you want." ~ female skydiver
Mohoso Rodriguez #865

[Andy9o8 0]

The idea behind a tandem as a first jump before doing AFF-1 is that it gets you past the particularly extreme door fear and sensory overload that marks almost everyone's first-ever jump, without having to keep your mind on other tasks like an AFF-1 will have. Now you've already had that. Unless you're at a DZ that does AFP in which your 2nd tandem will be a "working jump" with jump-specific tasks – or unless you think you'll be so freaked out on AFF-1 that you won't be able to do any of its tasks, you might as well move on to AFF-1.

Having said all this, don't make any decision one way or the other until you have a detailed, in-person conversation with your instructor. Only she/he will know enough about YOU to advise you properly.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

If you are going to do a second tandem, then why not do it as a CAT A training tandem? Definitely don't just go up for a carnival ride; make the jump count.

[yardhippie 0]

Keeping in mind all situations are different, would you recommend to someone a 2nd tandem if they wanted to go through AFF, but were still unsure if they would be able to make that commitment? Or suggest the AFF?

I hold the opinion that if you want to make skydiving your hobby, life, etc... AFF is the way to go. If youre not sure and are wanting to get your feet wet, then a tandem or tantem progression is the way to go.

but then again Im partial b/c I went through AFF, ive never done a tandem, and I am not an instructor.
so take it all with a grain of salt.

Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD
"What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me
"Anything you want." ~ female skydiver
Mohoso Rodriguez #865

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I am a firm believer in the CAT A training tandem for people considering skydiving as a sport. If you can perform all the TLO's on that skydive ( I actually have them do turns as well), then you will know, right then, if it's worth your money to sit through the AFF ground course.

I always ask my passenger/students if they plan on continuing in the sport. If they say yes, then I am going to train them as a CAT A student and have them deploy, etc.

Chuck

[chrismgtis 0]

Quote

What do you think? Did you go straight into AFF jump, or did you do a few tandems first?

On my first jump I did a tandem. I personally think it's a good idea just so that you know you're not going to freak out when it's time to step out of the airplane. It kind of worries me when I see fellow AFF students going up for their first jump ever. People do it all the time though.

After I completed my tandem I signed up for another tandem. I thought maybe I would work on canopy control a little more one more time on a tandem just to get the feel for it, but I changed my mind soon after and signed up for AFF instead. Once I made my first AFF jump and was under canopy I saw how easy it was to pilot. I landed on my feet and tripped over, but it wasn't a bad landing. On my second AFF, I hit the ground very softly and landed on both feet, then just kind of slowly bent my knees and kneeled down cause there wasn't a lot of remaining momentum. I thought it was a perfect landing.

As long as your comfortable with diving, I think your fine to continue AFF, but thats only my opinion. Do what you think you're comfortable with. That's probably the best advice anyone can give. If you don't think you're ready for something then definately dont do it, but AFF doesn't seem to ever be as near as bad as it can seem.

The hardest thing for me personally is standing up, walking to the edge of the airplane and getting over that fear of falling out. As my instructors say, were jumping out anyway and I just look at it like, I'm going to jump out of this airplane and thats why I'm here so what is the point of being afraid, I might as well just relax. That does actually tend to help.

Remember this is just a student's opinion. :P

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[yardhippie 0]

Cool.

I wonder if we shold be encouraging all DZ's to make that approch. so many get into the routine of only 'processing' the tandem students and not understanding why they are actually there.

Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD
"What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me
"Anything you want." ~ female skydiver
Mohoso Rodriguez #865

[AggieDave 6]

Don't forget how valuable the hands on training for canopy flight is. On a Cat A and Cat B I teach my students about landing patterns, turns (and what kind of turns are appropiate as you get lower), how to flare, flare height, the accuracy spot and how the uppers push you across the ground in regards to your flight.

A few years ago I didn't believe that tandem progression was worth a crap. After seeing student after student perform their AFF jumps really well after learning about altitude, body position, forward movement, turns, deploying, and canopy control, its proven its self to me to be a valuable training tool. When used correctly.

Quote

I wonder if we shold be encouraging all DZ's to make that approch. so many get into the routine of only 'processing' the tandem students and not understanding why they are actually there.

Not every tandem student wants to go that route, though, and only wants a thrill ride. So those get taught basic body position and some basic canopy flight (turns). The reason why I mention that is because some DZs have their tandem students all sit through a 30 minute training class that teaches a Cat A tandem. The students that want to learn don't get good in depth instruction and the ones that don't care are like hearding cats. There are a decent number of DZs that will ask students what they want and cater to their training needs.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[BillyVance 34]

You've done one tandem, if you really enjoyed that and didn't have any problems, you don't need another one. Its a waste of money. Go straight to AFF now and have some real fun.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[RandomLemming 0]

I had 2 levels of my AFF under my belt before I got to Lodi. Ed insisted that I do a Tandem as that is part of his course.

At first, I wasn't happy about this. The idea of trusting someone else to save my life didn't appeal massively. Then we climbed into the cessna and I didn't have a rig, which made me more nervous. The at about 7000', Bill jokingly asked if I'd noticed any gas stations on the way up because we were low on fuel. I'm not sure that my comment about getting out with us and hoping that the plane could find its own way back was well received :)

Then we got out. And that's when I learnt the value of the tandem after an AFF level or two. Now I understand Ed's training plan and I really value that.

When I did my first two AFF levels, I was so focussed on not dieing that I just couldn't take stuff in properly. And because I wasn't exactly stable or competent in the air, I wasn't making good use of my freefall time.

On the tandem, I finally found that I had time to understand what was happening around me, and because I'd done the two AFF levels, I had a frame of reference for all this. Having time to focus just on the dive flow, but not having to worry about deployment (which was ALL I was focussed on for my first 2 jumps) really, really helped me. It also helped me with my fear of the door.

I'd say that a tandem after a level or two of AFF is a very valuable tool - I'm sure I would have had to repeat a couple of AFF levels if I hadn't had this.

[popsjumper 2]

My $0.02:

My thought is to go ahead with the AFF.

IF you choose to do another tandem, make it a Cat A jump as has already been mentioned (SkyMonkeyOne for one).

IMHO, doing a tandem before AFF has its good points and its bad points.
Good:
-Getting the deer-in-the-headlights sensory overload over with.Bad:
-Tandem students quite often and almost nearly always do that vertebrae crushing, disc exploding, tailbone breaking tandem-butt-slide landing on their AFF Levels because that's what they learned first and they revert back to that on landing regardless of how much time and effort is put into PLF training.

So now that you've already done a tandem, do please try NOT to land like that on your AFF level.

One other question:
I assume that you are doing your AFF at the same place as you did your tandem? Your research didn't change your mind about that?


Good luck on your skydiving...you're going to love it!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[pilatus_p 0]

Hello hello

As a recent AFF'er, my view would be dont do another tandem - get wind tunnel time.

APOLOGIES to any DZ's I may be conning out of tandem revenue, BUT:

My greatest trouble was control of body position in the air in turns, back flips, tracking etc and I ultimately failed a level because of it. I had no idea what my legs were doing and the high adrenaline made me (more) stupid (than usual).

Wind tunnel time lets you learn body position in a more relaxed environment, and you can get the equivalent of 10 jumps airtime for less cost than a 40-60 second tandem - where I would have thought certain aerobatics are somewhat limited (correct me if im wrong - backflips?). What you learn is more likley to become part of your 'muscle memory' because you are more relaxed, and you have an instant opportunity each time to go back in and try what your instructor suggests.

This way from jump 1 (which is normally a blur) you will have more idea than most students on the sensations to expect in freefall.

Many guys I spoke to who breezed their AFF had done tunnel time, and ALL the AFF'ers I know from old went on to do tunnel time ... go figure.

Of course, you DONT get the canopy time. Depends what you are after. Want canopy time? You'll get loads on AFF where you will also get radio talkdown (just remember ti LISTEN TO IT ). AND ... CH1 comes AFTER AFF!

Ross

http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm

[AFFI 0]

This is a good question:

I trained in AFF as a student, worked some AFF but mostly working at a tandem progression school for over 5 years.

Popsjumper is totally correct about the pros and cons list. Like anything, what is best for Joe-blow might no be the best for you.

In my limited experience teaching the tandem progression method I see the best results is when a student makes 1 or 2 tandem(s) then takes the FJC (first solo jump course) during the week. Soon thereafter, while everything is still fresh, make a tandem and fly the dive flow for the first solo (Cat A). This is a “working” tandem where the student deploys and is in charge of flying a correct pattern, the instructor is just there to back up the student at this point and will use their discretion as how much to allow the student to be in charge of the tandem.

Aggie Dave is right on the money about learning how to "fly" the parachute. Canopy piloting with an expert there with you can really accelerate the learning curve with what has become an overlooked yet very important aspect of our sport -proficient canopy piloting.

After landing and debrief, train for and go make your first solo – you will be fresh, you will have gotten over the excitement of the first jump of the day and you will have a real world practice run on your first dive flow.

Remember that if you feel you are not ready to pilot your canopy solo you can always decide you need another “working” tandem.

I am not giving you a recommendation; I am just telling you what technique I have seen the best results with in terms of student performance, this has been in my experience as a solo freefall instructor at a busy tandem progression school.

Fit a little tunnel time if you can, but the tunnel is not a substitute for actual freefall. Out of 500 student jumps I can only think of a couple that absolutely needed tunnel time to proceed.

Like Pops said – more attention to detail concerning the landing.

-

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[skybytch 259]

Quote

Good:
-Getting the deer-in-the-headlights sensory overload over with.

I'd add to the good - having had the experience of pulling a ripcord and getting an introduction to what flying the pattern looks like from the air.

Quote

Bad:
-Tandem students quite often and almost nearly always do that vertebrae crushing, disc exploding, tailbone breaking tandem-butt-slide landing on their AFF Levels because that's what they learned first and they revert back to that on landing regardless of how much time and effort is put into PLF training.

I'd add to the bad - The "feet on the instructor's ass" body position could be a contributing factor in some people's backsliding and/or spin issues on later release dives (Cat C and D).

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I'd add to the bad - The "feet on the instructor's ass" body position could be a contributing factor in some people's backsliding and/or spin issues on later release dives (Cat C and D).

That's not the fault of the method, just the instruction.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[BelskyBlueEyes 0]

Actually, the only thing that is any concern for me is the landing process. I was not nervous or scared or anything of jumping, freefall was a little disorienting at first but as soon as I realized "close your mouth and breathe through your nose" I was OK. I loved being under canopy. Like a leaf on the wind, it was awesome and peaceful for me. I'm the kind of person that does research, listens to the rules, asks opinion of others and take that into account when I make the decision that best suits me. I do feel it would be helpful to know how to setup for approach, what it looks like from the sky, not just what I "think" it looks like. Like someone said, it would be a learning tandem, not just a ride, try to gain some canopy skills as much as I can. Also would let me realize what all this 'flare' is about and at point you do that. (Im still reading and learning remember!) Oh and why you dont do a low turn, and what that even means! ;)
I still am pondering what I will do. Thanks all for your opinions, it's all good stuff!

Carolyn

[recovercrachead 0]

Tandams are scary, I hope I never do one. I the want control.

Track high, Pull LOW!!!

[tomvailco 0]

do the level 1 jump you will be suprised at how much more confidence you have once you have gone through ground school. Save that money for level 2!

[toolbox 0]

Excellent advice on staying off your tailbone on landing. I have seen dozens of Tandem progression people drive the tailbone into the ground and waddle away looking for a donut to sit on. Blue Eyes, unless you feel you are not yet ready to go AFF,do not waste your money on another tandem. I am not saying tandem progression is bad,but if you plan on doing AFF level 1,save the cash for level 2.