What's the purpose of a hop and pop?

[b_dog 0]

Apparently one of the training steps in some skydiving training/activities is the hop 'n pop, where you jump out of the airplane at ~3500' or so and deploy the main immediately.

During student jumps when they exit at full altitude, they deploy the parachute at around 3500' (or is it 5000'?) anyway, so they experience that altitude or higher for piloting the canopy to begin with, if I'm not mistaken.

What's the purpose of this exercise, and is it a component of (USA) AFF training?

[Mostly_Harmless 0]

I think it's to simulate an aircraft problem and bailing out at a lower altitude. Don't let it scare you either! Hop and pops are a lot of fun. Being out in the sky with no other canopies around can be very enjoyable.

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[b_dog 0]

[QUOTE]Don't let it scare you either![/QUOTE]

Tee hee, funny isn't it? I am kind of scared of the idea. How could jumping out at 3500' be more intimidating than jumping at 13k? It doesn't seem to make sense but it's what it seems like. If I want to work my way to an "A" license I guess I'll have no choice but to go through with it, that's why I was asking about it.

[NWFlyer 2]

If you are going for a USPA A License, you will be required to do an exit from 3,500 feet. Some AFF programs give you a "warm-up" jump from 5,000 feet as well.

For training purposes, as you've already been told, the point of a hop & pop is to simulate an aircraft emergency to ensure that you can exit quick and exit stable and deploy with a short delay. It's different than deployment after freefall, and the point is that you experience it in a training environment, rather than in an emergency environment for the first time.

In general, though, hop & pops are great for a number of reasons:

1) It's a way to get jumps in and/or stay current when the weather goes to shit.

2) It's a way to focus exclusively on canopy skills, without the distraction of also having a freefall to plan and execute.

3) It's (sometimes) a way to get space to practice without any other (or as many other) canopies in the air. More advanced canopy pilots who are working on high-performance landings will often do a hop & pop while the rest of the jumpers on the load go to full altitude, so that they can have time to work on a landing without worrying about other traffic as much. Even if you're not doing a high-performance landing, you may be working on something with your canopy and want some peace and quiet in the air.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[wildfan75 1]

Mostly_Harmless is right. They want to make sure that you can leave the a/c and pull stable.

Thinking beyond that, some swoopers will do a lot of hnp's. Why pay to go to full altitude when all you want to do is swoop the landing.

Also, if clouds are low, would you rather do a hnp or not skydive at all? I'll choose the hnp everytime!

Lastly, seeing that your from California, you don't have to deal with hard core winters. I'm from MN, jump in WI, and we jump all winter long. If it's 0 degrees out, I'm probably not going to go to 10k or 14k, as it's going to be cold as f**k, but I'll get out at 3k and do a hnp.

[flyangel2 2]

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[QUOTE]Don't let it scare you either![/QUOTE]

Tee hee, funny isn't it? I am kind of scared of the idea. How could jumping out at 3500' be more intimidating than jumping at 13k? It doesn't seem to make sense but it's what it seems like. If I want to work my way to an "A" license I guess I'll have no choice but to go through with it, that's why I was asking about it.

It's all a state of mind.

Way back when I was learning how to skydive, the only way to learn was via static line. We were exiting the aircraft at 3,500. Once I was cleared for 5, 10, and 15 second delays, I was given more altitude. Going up higher scared me!

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[MagicGuy 0]

Hop and pops scared the shit out of me before I actually did one. After I did my first, I realized that they are actually pretty friggin' cool.

I practiced my hop and pop exit a bunch of times before I did my 5500'. I'd recommend doing the same. It will give you a lot of confidence when it comes time to do one.

Oh and currently for your A License, you need a Hop and Pop from 5500' and one from 3500'.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

To skydive when the weather sucks.

[sunshine 2]

I do Hop & Pops when to avoid the long ride to altitude when i'm at a C182 DZ.

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[VectorBoy 0]

To be able to fly high performance wingsuits maxed out the entire flight. You just can't max these suits from full altitdude without getting tired, real tired. But from 4500 we can get times close to what FFers get from full altitdude.

[adventurechick 0]

Also, when you're running low on money you can do a hop n' pop for 5 bucks cheaper!

PMS #449 TPM #80 Muff Brother #3860
SCR #14705 Dirty Sanchez #233

[AggieDave 6]

Besides the obvious aircraft malfunction scenerio training, don't forget whats very nice about a H&P. You get to focus on your canopy control. You get to focus on accuracy. The ride in the plane is much shorter.

For a student, an altitude clear and pull isn't always a great choice, even though it gives you more time under canopy. It takes a wee bit of understanding of the uppers and what they're doing so you don't end up in a situation where you are not going to make it to the airport. Its possible to land WAY off on those. Its also much easier to loose a canopy and freebag on a cutaway from up there. No matter what anyone says, that does come into the minds of DZOs. A new student canopy, freebag, PC and both handles is pricey.

So go do your H&P, smile and have a great time. Personally I love doing H&Ps. I get to go practice on my canopy control and swooping with out any other traffic. That helps a lot.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[jeremy_o 0]

I like doing HnPs or better, "Launch and tracks" - those are lots of fun for me. tracking on the hill

I also like doing HnPs to understand my canopy better, I can tell how well I am packing it based on how it opens in a sub-terminal deployment. To echo what wildfan75 said, I will be doing many more HnP's during the winter, it was pretty cold last weekend and we aren't even to the cold months yet!

http://planetskydive.net/ - An online aggregation of skydiver's blogs.

[peckerhead 0]

A real Hop n Pop is from 2000 ft.

3500 ft. is a 12 second freefall.

Sheesh! Kids these days!

[skinnyshrek 0]

plus krissane needs hop[ and pops as she likes her cypress to work especially over water

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[b_dog 0]

I seen then. I can understand the training purpose of a hnp.

Personally, my interest in skydiving is centered around the freefall aspect of it. I'm not too hyped up about the canopy part of it all. Yes, I KNOW the dire importance of practicing deployment and canopy skills so I can get back home safely once the main launches. I'm saying that, for me, the real thrill of it all is mostly in the freefall part. I guess a lot of experienced skydivers like to have high-performance canopies so they can do swoops and stalls and what other neat maneuvers there might be. But once I pull the cord, all I care about is landing without bruises. A hnp seems to me to be a half-skydive which sounds like you're getting short-changed, but as it probably is an important training tool, I accept it's necessity.

As for doing hnps when the weather is too bad for full skydiving, that's why I love living in southern CA. Weather is nice almost completely year-round.

[AggieDave 6]

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I guess a lot of experienced skydivers like to have high-performance canopies so they can do swoops and stalls

Actually, I try really hard not to do toggle stalls with my Velo. It can get "exciting" with a high performance canopy doing toggle stalls. Talk to your instructors about doing toggle and rear riser stalls.

Now, for fun "maneuvers" I do enjoy doing a rear riser stall and performing a helicopter. THAT makes me giggle like a little girl.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[b_dog 0]

Wait, I kind of take back what I said--on the tandem after we deployed and just glided back to earth, my TM would do sharp turns (spins?) where he would pull on one toggle and really slack the other and we'd spin around like crazy, you could really feel the G's. That was fun at least, after the freefall.

[LloydDobbler 2]

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I seen then. I can understand the training purpose of a hnp.

Personally, my interest in skydiving is centered around the freefall aspect of it. I'm not too hyped up about the canopy part of it all. Yes, I KNOW the dire importance of practicing deployment and canopy skills so I can get back home safely once the main launches. I'm saying that, for me, the real thrill of it all is mostly in the freefall part. I guess a lot of experienced skydivers like to have high-performance canopies so they can do swoops and stalls and what other neat maneuvers there might be. But once I pull the cord, all I care about is landing without bruises. A hnp seems to me to be a half-skydive which sounds like you're getting short-changed, but as it probably is an important training tool, I accept it's necessity.

Do you still have 2 jumps like your profile says? If so, I can understand your feeling that way. I felt the same way at 2 jumps, 5 jumps, etc.

However, just to relate from my own personal experience, I've found that for myself & most people I talk to, their 'favorite' part of the skydive changes at different stages in their jumping career. Sure you might love the freefall above all else...but I imagine at some point you'll begin to see your canopy as less of an 'escalator' and more of something to really play with.

(I only say that 'cause it happened to me, and 'cause I've heard the same thing from too many other skydvers who've been doing this a lot longer than I have.)

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As for doing hnps when the weather is too bad for full skydiving, that's why I love living in southern CA. Weather is nice almost completely year-round.

Just be warned, though - I jump at Cal City, and it gets colder in the valleys than you'd like to think over the wintertime. Yeah, sure, still better than jumping in Minnesota in February...but if you're going to altitude, you'll want some gloves & a sweater underneath that suit. Or at least that's what my frostbitten fingers told me this year.

Oh, one more thing - I believe MagicGuy's statement above that you need a hop n' pop from 5500' and from 3500' for the A license is inaccurate. I'm looking over the A License Proficiency Card from the back of this year's SIM Manual right now, and it only mentions 1 - under Exit and Freefall Skills:

5. Jump and deploy while stable within five seconds after exit from 3,500 feet AGL.

So unless they've changed something, I'd say just get the 3500' one out of the way...unless you'd feel more comfortable doing one from 5500' just to get the feel.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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I do Hop & Pops when to avoid the long ride to altitude when i'm at a C182 DZ.

Ew, me too. I never want to go above 8500 in a C-182 again, at least not without packing a lunch and having a good book to read.

[slug 1]

Hi B-dog

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What's the purpose of this exercise, and is it a component of (USA) AFF training?

To open your parachute before you hit the ground and hurt yourself really bad.

Also The airplane may lose power on your ride to altitude and you may have to exit the acft befor it hits the gound.

There also may be other jumpers on the plane that wil have to wait to exit until you stop blocking the door. You will need to exit without hesitation once the word is given by the pilot/person in charge to leave.

The longer you wait to exit the less time/altitude the jumpers behind you will have. The Hop and Pop will help you gain confidence in different exit altitudes, so you will split without hesitation during a emergency.

Due to time constraints H&P's are not taught during AFF. Don't worry different DZ's have different criteria or it might be a liscense requirement or both

BTW MR Stokes just set a world recod for performing 640 H&P's from 2100 ft in 24 hr's. If he can do that

R.I.P.

[b_dog 0]

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The Hop and Pop will help you gain confidence in different exit altitudes, so you will split without hesitation during a emergency.

Oh, believe me, if those engines fail, you won't have to convince me that bailing out is a good idea.

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[bloody_trauma 2]

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I do Hop & Pops when to avoid the long ride to altitude when i'm at a C182 DZ.

Ew, me too. I never want to go above 8500 in a C-182 again, at least not without packing a lunch and having a good book to read.

i dunno, the tubine cessna at my dz get up there pretty quick

Fly it like you stole it

[mangledspoon 0]

That's how I was too.. and actually I still am to some extent. It's mostly all about the freefall for me.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that student canopies are such huge, slow things...
But soon I'll be off the gigantic student canopy and onto my own gear, so that will most likely be more fun

[DougH 270]

I am a hop and pop whore... especially when the plane is packed with tandems... and I can sit right next to the door and escape quickly.

The fun to cost ratio is probably the best deal at my dz... especially when you turn it into a hop.... delay delay delay.... pop.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P