ONE pack job away from my A license and horribly confused and incapable of grasping concept...any advise?

[hawkflight 0]

Hi I am one pack job away from my A-License but I am totally incapable of grasping the whole concept for some reason.....I have been shown countless times by many at my DZ including my instuctors and even one of the senior riggers I understand the conceprt while watching "them "pack...and I have gotten as far as stowing my brakes and walking the lines...but that's where my brain seems to loose it capacity for reason I feel like I'm holding and looking at a jumbled mass of nylon....The owner of the DZ allowed me to borrow a student rig and I brought it home along with the "pack like a pro Video
but alas I am still confused......There is a "big boogie" this weekend and I was hoping to have my A-license for the fun....my skydiving skills and canopy skills are fine I have been told by my instuctors and coaches that I am doing quite well....and have everything on my card signed off except packing .....they have all been very patient with me But I ca'nt put it off anymore I must learn to pack!!! ..... this not being able to pack mode I'm in is really upsetting me as you can imagine ...ANY ADVISE?.....Thanks Tom

...............................

"Any fool can learn for his own mistakes, a wise man learns from anothers." Mark Twain

[Nightingale 0]

hmm...

have an instructor stand over you and tell you what to do when you forget or mess up, but as long as they don't touch the parachute themselves, perhaps they will count it for your A?

[skyhighkiy 0]

Prepare to have your comment about being alright at canopy and stuff ripped to shreds by the other guys in here, lol. anyway,


This is how i learned to pack cause I couldn't grasp it at first, either. you pack the parachute and have someone instruct you while YOU are doing it. put th elines over YOUR shoulder and have them point stuff out to you, don't let them actually "do" it.

affterr a couple of these,you'll be going in no time, blue skies!

BE THE BUDDHA!

[AggieDave 6]

Before you continue with my post, please note I am NOT a rigger.



First of all, sorry for the really really crappy pic I made, but hopefully it'll help illistrate what I'm trying to explain.


It all starts with a basic understanding of the design of the canopy.

There are 4 line groups, A, B, C and D. Starting from the nose of the canopy (open part/leading edge) and working towards the tail you have A, then B, then C, then D. The A and B, then the C and D usually meet in a triangle called a cascade, then a single line travels the rest of the way through the slider to the appropiate riser.

Now split the canopy in half, you'll have the same number of lines on either side of the canopy. i.e. if you have 4 D lines on the left, you should have 4 D lines on the right.

On the trailing edge of the canopy, the tail, you have the attatchments for the control lines, the brakes.

The basic purpose of the packjob is to organize the lines and fabric away from each other, with the lines in the middle.

Although that is a bit simplified, I think it'll help you understand the packing video.

Maybe the video will make a little more sense with that explaination.

Remember, it takes practice to get good at packing.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[FrogNog 1]

It took me about 10 tries and two weeks to learn to pack. Now, I understand what I'm doing very well (most everyone who packs does), but it's not something I can just tell you how to do.

My problem was there were so many steps, I could never remember it all. Keep trying. Seriously, maybe I would have learned faster if I had written down a list of all the steps. Instead, I just kept trying with someone there who knew what they were doing (very important) and humbly asked them "OK, now that my brain shut off, what am I forgetting to do next?".

[Tonto 1]

This is meant for martial artists, but it's good advice to anyone who is learning more, but feels like they're knowing less..

The Power of Awareness
Learning is a response to a demand to grow-a response to a desire to do something we couldn't do before. Learning involves errors. Errors aren't a problem, but ignoring or judging them is.
None of us really likes to look at our weaknesses. It's much more comfortable to acknowledge only our strengths, especially if we judge ourselves for "not doing it right". Learning any new skill requires awareness and refinement of errors. It can be a disillusioning process; it entails a momentary drop in self-esteem, a dent in our self-image. It requires the spirit of a warrior.
One sure sign of growing awareness is that we "feel" as if we are getting worse. At this point, many of us say "I used to be better" or "I'm going downhill". Yet it's obvious when looking at films of previous skill levels that we have radically improved. We've simply become much more aware of errors needing to be refined.
It is important to understand this phenomenon, because there's a tendency for us to judge ourselves harshly, become discouraged, and resist awareness just when we are moving into a higher level of proficiency. If we cling to a feeling of mastery over a lesser level of proficiency, learning stops.
Open, non-judgmental eyes cut through illusion and transform errors into whole body awareness and power. The supreme difficulty is to be willing to lose face, to see ourselves momentarily in a light that is less flattering than we wish.
Awareness is like sunlight in a dark forest. It allows us to see we are off the path. If we stop to judge ourselves for being too far left or right of the path, we are only wasting time and energy. The thing to do is be thankful for the light of awareness, and follow it back to the path.

-from "The Warrior Athlete"

I hope that, and Aggie's more practical advice help a bit. Just keep packing. We're amazing creatures. I once went 6 years without packing a single rig. I had to pack, and just touched the canopy and it all started happening when I stopped thinking about it. 10 min later it was ready to go.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[sid 1]

you can print off the sections in this guide that I put up, and review them one step at a time www.packingparachutes.com

Pete Draper,

Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right?

[JohnMitchell 14]

Have you tried flat packing instead of pro packing? I think it's easier to keep everything sorted out and unconfused. Also, are you familiar with the design of the canopy? Can you lay it out and find the A lines, C lines, steering lines, etc., or is it just a big mass of spaghetti to you? Sometimes backing up and covering the basics might be of help. If nothing else, if you set the brakes, bring up the slider, and check the lines are straight, it will usually open okay.

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[FrenchyDiver 0]

Your profile says you live in VA, so do I (NoVA actualy). Send me a PM and perhaps we can meet if we do not live too far from each other. If it is feasable, I will be more than happy to assist.

JM

Hispas Brothers President
HISPA #2,

[riggerrob 558]

You are hesitating at the least important part of the pack job.

There are 5 major steps to every pack job:

1 - lines straight
2 - brakes stowed
3 - slider ALL the way up
4 - rubber bands tight
5 - bridle routing

The rest of it is "should know" or "could know."

[JKT 0]

Quote

Have you tried flat packing instead of pro packing? I think it's easier to keep everything sorted out and unconfused. Also, are you familiar with the design of the canopy? Can you lay it out and find the A lines, C lines, steering lines, etc., or is it just a big mass of spaghetti to you? Sometimes backing up and covering the basics might be of help. If nothing else, if you set the brakes, bring up the slider, and check the lines are straight, it will usually open okay.

If you're having trouble getting your head around just what is happening in a PRO-pack, I'd also recommend being shown (or doing) a flat pack too - it really helps to sort out in your mind what everything is and where it is on the canopy. It's also broken down into three stages - at the end of each you can step back and reflect on what is going on. Once you have seen or performed a flat pack, you will realise that a PRO pack is doing pretty much the same thing, only in a vertical stance.

FWIW, the big difference between the two is that a flat pack starts with the canopy in a sideways orientation which you then revert to a head on orientation at the end of stage 2. The PRO pack always keeps the canopy head on (hence the Proper Ram-air orientation or PRO of the title, I believe).

-----

Official 100 jump wonder

[Casquito 0]

I learned packing over a hook. It lets you get a better view of what is going on since you can walk around the thing and get the the lines groups from the tail. It's much clearer what's going on from that view IMHO. You can also leave it there, go watch your video or check out a book then come back and resume packing as well.
The Aerodyne Pilot also has color coded lines which make it much easier to figure out the A/B/C/D/Brake lines. I remember thinking the C and D lines were harder than the A and B to keep track of.
When I learned to pack, my instructor showed me once, then went to grab a coffee while I tried it. When he came back, I asked him if he wanted to take it apart and check it out, but he told me to go jump it. I figured what the hell, that's what a reserve is for, but the plane ride up was the most nerve wracking ever. I remember after I pulled, it had a long snivelly opening, so I was reaching for the cutaway when it opened on heading and softly over me. So it can't be that hard if I can do it.... Just take your time and don't get frustrated.

J

[billvon 2,400]

One thing to keep in mind -

You may lay the pack job down and have it look like a horrible mess; even some good pack jobs look like horrible messes. If you keep the lines straight and the slider up chances are it will open normally even if it looks messy (perhaps a bit hard, but it will open.) Some key parts of the pack job are:

-When you start make sure no lines are over the top of the canopy

-keep lines straight and under a little tension; don't let them flop around or over anything

-Lines go in the center of the pack job

-Slider must be all the way up against the stops

-When getting it in the bag, keep control of the very 'bottom' of the pack job; that's where all the lines and the slider is

[ZoneRat 0]

Same kinda thing... I'd look at all that fabric and lines and could make no sense of it all.

I'd packed one time for my A (took me hours...). Swore I'd never pack again. 100 jumps later my friends were planning a trip to a small Cesna DZ. No packers. I was going to look like an idiot.

So I invited one of the more experienced skydivers over to the house to teach me how to pack. Better to look the idiot to one than to everyone, I thought. "I thought you just got your B licence. You still don't know how to pack?" he said. "Uh. well.. not really, no". "Ok. I'll be there in 20 minutes... what's your address again?"

Gave him food and beer while he sat on the couch telling me what to do. It was easier to learn in the relaxed environment of my house. By the end of the night, the canopy still didn't make sense, but I learned the process without really understanding it.

Practiced several nights that week. Had to call him a couple times... but eventually I locked it in. Sorta.

When the group went to the smaller dz I was able to pack my own. Took me longer... missed a few loads, but I got through it without being totally embarrassed... and that guy that helped me out? Now we play disk golf together a couple times a week. He's become a great friend.

So... call someone up (or PM frenchy), explain the situation, ask for some help... and don't forget to pick up a few brews on on the way home.
Good luck with it. It's not beyond you.

Robin

“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.”

[cvfd1399 0]

Is there a part/picture about flaking the tail on a stack or flat pack job? I see it done so many ways it is killing me. some flake it like a pie, some make a mini pro-pack with the tail and the brake lines. I cannot figure out how to flake it.

[JohnMitchell 14]

All packjobs have one thing in common, lines in the center, cloth out to the sides. When the air hits the chute, the cloth drags the lines outward, opening without lineovers or entanglements. Flake the tail anyway that works, but with the lines in the middle, and the material out to the sides.

[PhillyKev 0]

One other piece of advice from my experience learning to pack for anyone else reading this.

Don't waste your money on ANY of the videos. Never saw one that didn't suck butt, and I tried a bunch of them.

[nael 0]

Disclaimer: I only have 55 jumps, but these are a couple of things that helped me learn to pack.

I learnt to pack one windy afternoon when the dz shut down, and everyone went home except for me and 3 instructors. They sat there teaching me to pack (and laughing at me flailing around on the canopy), and each time I had it in the container, they'de rip it out and make me pack it again.

They put problems in it which would cause malfunctions, like a step through and line overs etc that I had to identify and clear before I attempted to pack it. I packed 10 - 15 times that day and learnt A LOT. So, as someone else said - you pack, let the instructors watch (and teach!).

Another thing I found helpful was when some of the experienced jumpers inflated a canopy on the ground for me, I held the harness and they pointed out the A,B,C,D and break lines, stabalisers etc. It made all that moving of material seem a bit more logical when I went back to pack! Now I'm jumping my own pack jobs.

Good luck!

www.TerminalSports.com.auAustralia's largest skydive gear store

[Duckwater 0]

Pay Packers - They will love you and you can goof off while everyone is packing....I have 910 jumps and I have never packed once.

[tmontana 0]

this diagram helped me a lot. I still suck at it but, i've gotten past the looking down and seeing a bunch of fabric and lines.

___________________________________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

[sid 1]

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this diagram helped me a lot. I still suck at it but, i've gotten past the looking down and seeing a bunch of fabric and lines.

This one's on the same page of my guide, and may help explain it further

Pete Draper,

Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right?

[Luv2Fall 0]

Tom - I went the "flat packing" route............the school didn't have a problem with that.

[LuvToFly 0]

One of the things that I found was helpful is this..

A lot of time, you get taught about how to do the folds, as opposed to what they all mean - and I think it is important to understand what goes where, and why -

For instance, once you understand that the steering lines need to go in the back, and you see can see that the steering lines are attached to the trailing edge, and you realize that the trailing edge is farthest away from you when you are pro-packing, you have a visual you can work with.

Visualizing what you are actually doing to the parachute is a great key to understanding how to pack, and it is often not explained that way -

Here is a suggestion that might help.

Spread the canopy out on the ground in front of you, with the leading edge away from you (lines up of course). You will need a lot of space of course, but make sure that the canopy is opened up and laying flat on it's top side with the front (nose) towards you and the tail farther from you.

Examine where all the lines are.

Then, pick the thing up slowly by reeling in the lines so to speak until you have it hanging there as you do when you pro pack. Get a visual on where all those parts of the parachute are hanging now.

I am not, however suggesting that you go forward and pack it from that point. Go back to your normal procedures and start from the recommending beginning of your Pro pack procedure. But if can learn to actually SEE what is going on, instead of wading through what seems to be a pile of nylon, you may find the process easier to understand. If nothing else, this may give you an increased awareness of the position of the steering line, and why you must be diligent in your pack job to see that they never get around front. Once you have a solid visual, that get's easier.

By understanding the relationship of the canopy lying flat, and where everything goes when you draw it up into the pro-pack hanging position, you should get a better idea of what all those folds are, how they get there, and what the lines are actually attached to.

"The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment
of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

[evilivan 0]

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hmm...

have an instructor stand over you and tell you what to do when you forget or mess up, but as long as they don't touch the parachute themselves, perhaps they will count it for your A?

Probably not the best or safest idea to get signed off for the sake of it - he still won't know how to pack without an instructor there....

"If you can keep your head when all around you have lost theirs, then you probably haven't understood the seriousness of the situation."
David Brent

[Nightingale 0]

but then he can start working on his freefall skills with other people, while he's still learning to pack, instead of having packing hold him back from jumping with others.