Titusville Manifest and Sky Gods new deployment altitudes

[steve1 5]

I wish Greg Nardi could read some of this. As far as I know he still owns the dropzone at Titusville. I'll bet he has no idea that the manifest lady is running off customers. Maybe she is the one who should be run off. Any company that has a lot of employees is bound to hire a ringer at some point in time. Let Greg know what's happening, and I'll bet he'll change it.

I started jumping with Greg and his brother about 35 years ago. He's a stand up guy and a very easy going person. I doubt he'd run a dropzone that had overly strict opening altitudes. I've never jumped at Titusville, but hope to some time in the future....Steve1

[stratostar 5]

I would agree with you there. I had some friends from up north travel to this years keys boogie, when the jumping stopped due to the power line hit and they had to leave to make their flights back home they were told they couldn't get a refund on unused lift tickets and to "stop by Sebastian" to use them.

While I wasn't at or have I ever been to the keys boogie, I don't know if it was well stated that there would NO REFUNDS of pre-paid lift tickets.
But I was surprised to hear my friends were told to travel way out of their way to use the tickets and not given a refund, seemed kinda of like a low class act IMHO.

If I were take vacation to visit DZ's in FL, I would be less inclined to pay a visit to SEB based upon how friends I trust were treated at a boogie put on by them, so as to not get the same screwing.

So I guess in today sport if you don't want to get fucked over by greedy DZO's and boogie host's pay by the jump and don't pre pay for your tickets, it's sad to see what our sport has turned into these days, no wonder the numbers are in such decline.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[CSpenceFLY 1]

What kills me is how often do you think refunding money comes into play?I bet not on a regular basis and surely not enough to make a difference in the bottom line of a DZ.Not enough of a difference to have someone bad mouthing you to their friends and on the internet.

[stratostar 5]

I would agree, I just think it is FUBAR to do to someone who booked airline tickets and a hotel room, possible entry fees and pre paid jumps, only to be treated that way at the end. And this is not the first time these friends have traveled to this boogie, they have gone the last 3 times it was on. Not sure if they will go again, I was invited to go with them, not sure now I would want to go now.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

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What kills me is how often do you think refunding money comes into play?I bet not on a regular basis and surely not enough to make a difference in the bottom line of a DZ.Not enough of a difference to have someone bad mouthing you to their friends and on the internet.

Good point... what kills me too though is how "polarized" some DZOs & Jumpers can be on this point and other ones like it. I mean, how many threads are there around here regarding "What if we take off and can't get to altitude for what ever Umpty Ump reason... should I get my money back?" Read any of those threads and you'll find the two opinion camps are pretty... widly... divided. Another example... I've seen DZOs that when dealing with a "problem" customer will be quick... very quick... to say, "Here's your money back, in fact, here's an extra $20 bucks for gas in your car... just there's the door and don't let it hit ya where the good Lord split ya on the way out!"... while conversly, I've seen other DZOs that you'd have a better chance getting blood from a stone then money back from them.

Anyway... I wonder how much of this specific incident comes down to... "Do you want to be right... or do you want to be Happy?" Lord knows I've anchored down on some argument, point or what not... but sometimes you've just got to take a step back and smile and nod and say "sucks, sorry, I won't do that again"... finsish out your day jumping, leave, and then decided whether or not to come back.

Personally, I find it hard to believe there's a DZ out there with a 4K, hard-deck, for pack opening, even for experienced jumpers... heck I've sene DZs with a "no canopy open ABOVE 3.5K" clause in the waiver or SOPs for expeienced jumpers... but stranger things have been known to happen.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Tell them to come to Dublin.We refund unused jump tickets...but we charge you $40 to leave.

[popsjumper 2]

The_Don and Jeannier are still there...when do they get their $40 back so they CAN leave?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[stratostar 5]

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but we charge you $40 to leave.

Is that with or without a cold beer.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[skinnyshrek 0]

i thought you were out of here you liar

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[recovercrachead 0]

You should of told them your from THE RANCH! We dont know better. Its worked for me more than once.

Track high, Pull LOW!!!

[popsjumper 2]

Oh..yeah...I took my afternoon nap and forgot.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[skinnyshrek 0]

I'm originally from the ranch. 11 years ago i believe. Is Bungay and skinner still up there

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[jraf 0]

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I wish Greg Nardi could read some of this. As far as I know he still owns the dropzone at Titusville.

You probably are right. I wish he told me his oppinion of the entire thing. Unfortunately the DZ at Titusville appears to be run by manifest staff and they appear to have final say on business. I guess this means that when they get hormonal business just cant go well

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[misskriss 0]

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I guess this means that when they get hormonal business just cant go well

That's unnecessary

[bozo 0]

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I guess this means that when they get hormonal business just cant go well

That's unnecessary

but true.

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[misskriss 0]

***but true. ***


So because she's a woman is why she's rude?.... It's her hormones?? So what do we call men when they are assholes? Are they hormonal too? Or just dickheads.

[mbondvegas 0]

OK...I should probably just stay out of this but...

I was at Titusville on Sunday (the day in question).

Lets discuss the facts and my observations.

FACTS:
Jumps were from 15K+
There is no rule (that I was informed of) to pull above the BSR rules. (I pulled at 3.5K)
Cloud Layer was light/broken and between 4.5-3K.
I arrived when the first load was in the air. I (BTW-I am not the "very experienced skydiver" who chatted with manifest) and several other observers watched as a group of jumpers pulled and one fell considerably further and pulled.

MY OBSERVATIONS:
The majority of the deploying divers did so at what looked to me to be between 4k-3K.

The last one to pull, was in the saddle at no more than 1.500ft (probably <1,200ft in my opinion) I'm a newby so flame away about my lack of perceptions skills but as I was thinking to myself and chatting with my wife that THAT guy had just pulled wayyyy low, we overheard the group of locals watching discuss the same (with a bit of fervor).

Apparently, these discussions continued when the other jumpers got down. On a subsequent load, other jumpers were critiquing Hans on his pull altitude (i.e. not just manifest).


IN SUMMARY
I don't really care if this guy pulls at 2500ft or 500ft as long as he is not going to land on anyone (the DZO Manifest certainly should see things differently), but the facts and my subjective observations are WAY different than what where noted here.

Titusville was a nice place to visit, the locals were cool, there are no silly HIGH pull rules, and THIS GUY PULLED LOW!

{OK FLAME AWAY}

- - -
I am not afraid of tomorrow, for I have seen yesterday and I love today.

[recovercrachead 0]

That dirty low puller! I Knew it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Track high, Pull LOW!!!

[recovercrachead 0]

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I'm originally from the ranch. 11 years ago i believe. Is Bungay and skinner still up there

Yes Skinner is still on the mic. Bungay is still smelling up the plane with his grolsh farts and talking about we should start the whorehouse DZ.

Track high, Pull LOW!!!

[teason 0]

So far he's commented on the fact that she's large and a 200 jump wonder, why would he stop there? Why not make a sexist comment too?

Here's the valid issue; Titusville doesn't have a proper structure in place to deal with a safety issue. Even if Jraf was dumping at 1000', the manifestor shouldn't be dealing with it.

Second, It obviously wasn't handled well which is only what is going to happen when the wrong person is doing the job.

Finally, customers are usually discouraged from persuing refunds. Ideally, it's to give the business a second chance to please the customer. If you had a Tandem student come out and you get weathered, a refund almost gaurentees they will never come back.

Experienced jumpers are a different matter, however and should be refunded. They will appreciate it and more likely come back and spread the word.

Ultimately Titusville is in dire need of restructure and staff, something many DZs in the industry need.

Now, JRAF.

I'm really sorry you got your ego bruised but Ingnorant remarks really make me think you are an ass.

So far you have made comment on her competance, her weight and now her sex.

You are showing that what this issue is all about is you. How could anyone treat YOU badly. This has nothing to do with how they treat customers, you want to hurt Titusville and the manifestor for how YOU percieved they made YOU feel.

How can this discusion be about business ethics when you start talking about the manifestor's time of the month!?!

It's time to step back dude and take a deep breath. You've brought up good points about Titusville and there can now be good discusion about what they need to get on track.

Now go home, relax and get over it!

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[porpoishead 5]

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That dirty low puller! I Knew it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dang bruh Y????? that shit made me laugh so hard I almost died

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

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[MarkM 0]

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I would agree with you there. I had some friends from up north travel to this years keys boogie, when the jumping stopped due to the power line hit and they had to leave to make their flights back home they were told they couldn't get a refund on unused lift tickets and to "stop by Sebastian" to use them.

While I wasn't at or have I ever been to the keys boogie, I don't know if it was well stated that there would NO REFUNDS of pre-paid lift tickets.
But I was surprised to hear my friends were told to travel way out of their way to use the tickets and not given a refund, seemed kinda of like a low class act IMHO.

I was really disappointed by this as well, though I think it's a fairly standard Seb policy(no jump ticket refunds). But the jump tickets were about $3.50 more than what they would've been at Sebastian. So even if you used them there, you were paying a nice premium for the pleasure.

I bought up some tickets from people since I'm local and can use them, but there should've been a proper refund policy. Not doing that at a boogie just means people will be tying up manifest more with buying smaller blocks of tickets.

[jraf 0]

In other words my learned friend according to you I am either a liar or both my instruments are wrong. Congratulations on your keen senses.

You say

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and several other observers watched as a group of jumpers pulled and one fell considerably further and pulled.

Yes, that is true I pull lower than 4,000 feet AGL

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The majority of the deploying divers did so at what looked to me to be between 4k-3K.

And you base that statement on the bult in altimeter in you retina or the large measuring stick that you had in your pocket. Or perhaps some opened at 5,000 feet and others at 4,000 feet. Or maybe the opened between 3,000 and 2,000. Unless you can give me an precise figure based on altimeter readings your guestimates have no value.

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The last one to pull, was in the saddle at no more than 1.500ft (probably <1,200ft in my opinion) I'm a newby so flame away

As you mentioned, you are a newby so stick to what you know to do and dont tell me where I was in the saddle. I was in the saddle between 2,500 and 2,300 feet AGL based on my Alti 2. If you think you know better then call Alti and tell them their equipment is worthless.

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Titusville was a nice place to visit, the locals were cool, there are no silly HIGH pull rules, and THIS GUY PULLED LOW!

Yeah I guess the high pull rule that the nice manifest lady told me about was just an issue of my imagination. And this guy pulled LOWER than everyone else. On the jump you mentioned brakeoff was at 5,500 feet.

A person standing on the ground or especially moving in the air should not even attempt to guestimate other peoples altitudes. You have not seen my altimeter on opening so you really no nothing of it. That is the bottom line.

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[jraf 0]

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So far you have made comment on her competance, her weight and now her sex.

OK, these are the facts:

She is an incompetent, large woman. How else do you want me to describe her? Do you want me to call her by name? Or is calling someone a woman politically incorrect? Or is it my fault that she is large, or perhaps I should pretend that she is thin?
She is by all means incompetent.

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You are showing that what this issue is all about is you

How very perceptive of you. Let me reinforce that statement. I was bullied at Titusville by an incompetent employee (look for description above)

I was spending MY money.

I suppose you are a better man than me, but I dislike when people bully ME Now if this happened to someone else I really would not be competent to comment as I am not an FAA certified altitude guestimator. The gist of the discussion is the level of service that we are expecting for our hard earned money. Then again if nobody cares then I gues skydivers will be treated like dirt at drop zonesand life will go on.

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[LordRatner 0]

Eh, I'm on your side.

I had a jump where I was in the saddle at 2500 ft. thats high for me. But lo and behold, someone on the ground was convinced I pulled right before my AAD would have fired. It took my Neptune, and others to convince this man of thousands of jumps that he was being an idiot.

I've always marveled at how a community of people who jump out of airplanes are so thin skinned. Weird.