Crater waiting to happen

[skyhighkiy 0]

To all of you that read and/or replied to my post regarding making 90 riser turns close to the ground, I have an even more risky and stupid story to tell.


I was recently informed that there's another guy jumping out of my drop zone (happens to come from the same college) that is making extremely risky landings at an extremely low number of jumps

number of jumps=32nd jump yest'rday

type of landing=360's to the ground starting at (I'm told) around 100 ft. using only toggles (he has not yet experimented with his risers)

He's flying a 220 (rental gear) but I"m told he's rather on the heavy side so the wingload is about 1:1

additional risks=disregard for the wind and the treeline that lies just a few hundred ft from the landing area which causes rotors for southern winds

diagnosis=cratering before me

I guess the one good thing about skydiving is that it's a self-maintenancing sport?

hmm....comments, anyone?

BE THE BUDDHA!

[juanesky 0]

I hope you have learned something.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[skyhighkiy 0]

I have







Pull before you hit the ground

BE THE BUDDHA!

[slotperfect 7]

The Chief Instructor and DZO need to know about this. You being interruptive by letting them know this guy is executing dangerous maneuvers might save his life or the life of someone else in the pattern or on the ground.

Let them know soon.

Arrive Safely

John

[skyhighkiy 0]

ok, I'll let them know,
I know none of the safety people or DZO have seen him land, I, myself, just heard about it from the packer a couple hrs. ago (left the DZ for the day due to high winds and watching someone w/ a sketch landing)

But yeah, will do.

BE THE BUDDHA!

[slotperfect 7]

Since you haven't seen it yourself, you may want to take an eyewitness with you to support your cause. That way the information hasn't become inaccurate after being passed from person to person.

Arrive Safely

John

[tombuch 0]

Quote

I know none of the safety people or DZO have seen him land, I, myself, just heard about it from the packer a couple hrs. ago (left the DZ for the day due to high winds and watching someone w/ a sketch landing)

Humm, I've got to wonder if this is a case of a reckless jumper pushing himself, or of a beginner who made a mistake. From the initial post it sounded like a guy who is consistently making crazy approaches witnessed by others on a regular basis. Now it sounds like a beginner with a couple of dozen jumps, who got himself in trouble on a windy day and made a poor decision, but survived.

I'm guessing the local DZO or S&TA will deal with it differently depending on the actual circumstances. With that in mind I'd suggest you have the packer who told you about this speak to the S&TA directly.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[skyhighkiy 0]

I guess he made a couple jumps in that day and was doing that consistently, w/ no regard to the wind. (I'm told)

apparently he swears by toggles, I 'unno, I'll get my story straight and talk to someone

BE THE BUDDHA!

[Push 0]

Quote

he swears by toggles

According to Brian Germain and my experience trying what he told me to try (at 3000'), this is not safe. Not only are toggles inefficient for swooping because they greatly increase camber (curvature of the top surface) and drag of your airfoil, using toggles to initiate an intentional low turn, like a swoop, is dangerous. This is because you cannot stab out of the turn quickly. Try it up high, use the horizon as your reference. Get a nice quick 360 going and then at the bottom put the toggles all the way back up and stab. Betcha it won't swing you back under the canopy quite as fast as you would like.

Another technique I learned on Brian's course is the half-flare during a turn. Suppose you are turning with the toggles and you need to plane out now. Do not bring the turning toggle back up, bring the other toggle down to it. If you turn the way I do, this will put you in half brakes. Your canopy will plane out very quickly and you will feel yourself get very heavy in the harness, which means you are accelerating up, that is, you're not going down. Quite fun, and potentially life saving. The problem with using this trick to swoop with the toggles is that, if you let the toggles back up, your canopy will surge down. This means you have to land from half brakes or more. You have half the flare, you've probably planed out way too high, and you're already going much faster than normal.

There is a reason why all the swoopers use front risers. While following the crowd is not always a good idea, so is running the other way in a stampede. Just the other week a low toggle turn killed a skydiver with over a thousand jumps.

Blues.

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[somethinelse 0]

Hi Ky.

I know who you're talking about...Was there on Saturday when he came in. You do need to talk to him. He is a low# jumper like me...and YOU too.

He really seems open and a good guy. Give him a chance. We all gotta watch out for each other too my skybro friend.

Lila.

PS
PM'd you!

[PhreeZone 15]

It would be MUCH better if you express your concerns to the S&TA and an instuctor and have them deal with the issue. Coming from another newbie its easy to ignore the advice, but coming from someone that they respect usually carries a lot more weight.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[dresherr 0]

Hey Hey Hey. I saw it too. Or maybe that was superman? No... It was him

Dez will handle the situation If not Rick

Me being a low # too doesn't really do any good but I've seen bad things happen first-hand.

Even on a perfect swoop a line could snap.

-Richy

Nice swoop this sunday Rick. Perfect 10!

[flyhi 24]

Quote

type of landing=360's to the ground starting at (I'm told) around 100 ft. using only toggles (he has not yet experimented with his risers)

He's flying a 220 (rental gear) but I"m told he's rather on the heavy side so the wingload is about 1:1

Physically, is that even possible? Do a (I assume) single toggle 360 degree turn at 1:1 WL and lose only 100 feet? I'll give you low, but I would have to see the 100-foot-360-degree turn to believe it.

Either way, he needs to stoppette.

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[somethinelse 0]

Richy-

Honestly, are you EXAGGERATING for drama?

Did you actually SEE this guy screw up?

Whether if was intentionally or out of ignorance,
When you see a jumper in danger himself or others,
You need to take to the S&TA - Rick- ASAP!

Unbelievable.

Get with it.

[WILDBILLAQR 0]

I saw a 180 toggle turn from 50 ft Sunday. AFF level 2, 260 navigator, .8/1 w/l. On radio (you guessed it
"I couldn't here the radio after 100 ft")
He did here the radio @ 25ft yelling BREAKS!
Somehow he pulled it off. His 2 instructors were the
incomming and outgoing S&TAs! His debrief took about 1 hour and included vidio of the landing and how close he was to being an incident!

----------------------------------------------
"Thats not smoke, thats BUCKEYE!!"
AQR#3,CWR#49

[obelixtim 100]

"Even on a perfect swoop a line could snap"...

What ARE you talking about?????...

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[repeter 0]

the s&ta of their dropzone had a line snap while swooping.. luckily he was fine..

[obelixtim 100]

If it didn't snap on opening, I can't see how it would snap once the canopy was open.....

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[dragon2 0]

Seen an intended 360 that became a 270 started at ~150 ft up close.

DON'T DO THAT

It ended in the sand, with one broken femur. LUCKY BASTERD

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[skyhighkiy 0]

no, he's right, if your lines are worn from obsessive ware.

if one jumps all the time and has a really buissy life, neglecting to check his/her lines, the lines could get worn where the slider gromets come to rest on the risers.

me and whats his namey both witnessed a guy come in for a swoop and *SNAP* went one of his A-lines. detached from the canopy.

luckily for him, he was about 20 ft. off the ground and it snapped at a point that caused him to swing under and send him sliding across the ground on his back. got up and walked away

....lucky bastard

BE THE BUDDHA!

[somethinelse 0]

I saw that!

He was coming in fast under his "little" chute but couldn't flare and hit hard on his left side.

Our vid guy was taping the landing and got it on tape. Rick said he felt a line snap, and checking the video in slo-mo he was able to determine just when and where that happened.

Thank God he's in great shape to be able to handle hitting hard like that! But He was stiff, sore and bruised for quite a while after that.

[billvon 2,402]

>If it didn't snap on opening, I can't see how it would snap once the
> canopy was open.....

There are several ways it can happen, from a link gradually bending open (and cutting the line) to a brake line break. Keep in mind that the lower part of the brake line is not under any stress at all during opening; it sees the most stress during the flare.

[PhreeZone 15]

If a line snaps from wear then shame on the owner for not taking the time to replace it. Spertra line warns you for 100 jumps before it breaks, Vectran about the same if you look at it. If you ignore a major issue like excessivly worn lines then don't complain when you end up hurt due to it breaking.

Break lines break way before the A's do. If you are breaking A lines that canopy should have had a reline a long time earlier or the slider needs looked at for damage.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[skyhighkiy 0]

what are the signs that should be watched for while in flight?

BE THE BUDDHA!

[ManBird 0]

Quote

If it didn't snap on opening, I can't see how it would snap once the canopy was open.....

Probably a brake line. They do go occassionally, I'm guessing where the lower meets the line. I saw one break mid-swoop just two weeks ago. Thought the jumper did cartwheel across the pond, there were no injuries.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click