Did my first "fun jump" today!! ... It went horribly awry.

[Chelseaflies 0]

Today I was all set up to do a solo, my 27th jump. I just got freshly A licensed yesterday and also got my high altitude. So, I was planning on jumping from 15,000ft and opening at 4,000ft. Which were both new to me. Just as I was getting ready, a guy I know runs up to me and offers to fun jump with me. I agreed and off we went.

After we exited, I think I was so focused on him, I didn't arch enough and ended up flipping around a bit. After I got stable, we flew around a bit but I was falling too fast for him. So we both spent pretty much the entire skydive trying to make it to each other. I found it very hard to dearch and definitely decided I needed more practice on it. At 5,000ft we broke off and I went to track away, once I got away I went to pull and accidentally tipped myself over. In a split second I was on my back and I had already pulled the pilot shoot out so I had to let go. I got abruptly yanked up and whiplashed my neck pretty bad (or at least I'm hoping it's only whiplash) on the opening. Luckily all the parachute had was a few twists and all I had was whiplash and a hurt ego.

I was really surprised, throughout all 26 of my jumps, even the aff,  my openings have all been perfectly stable. The thing I did learn from this, is how important it is to be STABLE upon opening. I also realized that it seems to be very easy to get sidetracked when fun jumping, at least I find that I focus to much on the other person and forget to arch or whatever. 

Does anyone else notice this or it just because I'm so new to jumping with others? 

"My time is limited, what I can do with that time is not" - Jeb Corliss

[Bealio 0]

Did you not put your left arm forward during your pull and do a half barrol role or something? It sounds like you got really flustered. You did the most important thing, you pulled. The second most important would be to pull stable.

[Chelseaflies 0]

Bealio

Did you not put your left arm forward during your pull and do a half barrol role or something? It sounds like you got really flustered. You did the most important thing, you pulled. The second most important would be to pull stable.

I'm pretty sure I didn't bring it forward, at least not enough, otherwise I'm not sure how else I could have flipped myself over. But, I agree. I most definitely got myself flustered but it made me realize how you do need to pay attention all the time. At least till it's second nature.

[format 0]

Chelseaflies

Does anyone else notice this or it just because I'm so new to jumping with others? 

Both.
You know, people track dearched and they don't flip, because they are symetrical enough. I'd say you were dearched AND asymmetrical, if you were arched, you wouldn't roll/flip but you would turn, which is bad too.

So practice your symmetry, two legs, one hand, stable with no turn. Hand on PC and be sure that no one is above you when practice it.

When I was like that, it took me... maybe 7 jumps to gain confidence for using hackey instead of ripcord+springed-PC.

Now the good thing is you didn't hurt your neck

What goes around, comes later.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Chelseaflies

how important it is to be STABLE upon opening

Yes, but... don't forget your order of priorities:

1) Pull
2) Pull at the correct altitude
3) Pull stable

Don't beat up on yourself. We've all been there. Plan your jumps ahead of time - don't be tempted to mix things up on the way to the plane. Having a plan for your jump and carrying out the plan will see you a long way towards success.

[PixieUK 0]

Chelseaflies

Today I was all set up to do a solo, my 27th jump. I just got freshly A licensed yesterday and also got my high altitude. So, I was planning on jumping from 15,000ft and opening at 4,000ft. Which were both new to me. Just as I was getting ready, a guy I know runs up to me and offers to fun jump with me. I agreed and off we went.

I would say this was your biggest problem. You weren't prepared for jumping with someone else so you didn't have time to make a plan, work out what to do if things went wrong and you were already doing things that were new to you and hence probably out of your immediate comfort zone.

I also learned in a rather alarming way not to change too much all at once. I am still very new to jumping too and I have found my brain fries if I alter too many variables in one go. Luckily for me, it just meant my first seriously unstable exit and a little while to recover but I learned a valuable lesson. There will always be another load on another day, there is no need to rush anything. Hence I am focusing on my canopy handling skills before worrying about jumping with anyone else (A licence is a bit different in the UK, we need our FS1 before we can jump with other people).

Glad you're ok - as others have said, your priorities are
Pull
Pull at the correct altitude
Pull stable

So 2 out of 3 wasn't bad under the circumstances

A mind once stretched by a new idea never regains its original dimensions - Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr

[dthames 0]

Here are a some things that helped me, overall.

Before I wave off, I flare from my track, getting large, and slow down. I slow down both my flight and my pull sequence. I don't mean sloooow, I mean relaxed, in control, and precise. Keep flying stable until the canopy starts standing you up.

I recall several early jumps where I went a bit head down, over on my side, or otherwise less than ideal. Most were caused by lack of attention to detail, poor preparation/setup for the pull, or what I as wearing was "slicker" than what I was use to.

Taking an extra second to make sure I was ready, then a clean pull, followed by continued stable flying, helped me.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

Beware of jumping with other low-time jumpers. Jump with experienced folks....it makes for better learning experiences.

In addition to the good advice about SLOWING DOWN....LOOK AT THE HORIZION while pulling!

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[Boomerdog 0]

If I may speaking "newb" to "newb." You are not alone on your concerns. It has happened to me on several occassions. I decide on a solo jump to work on skills. I plan the dive flow, the maneuvers, cease manuever altitude. I manifest going up as a solo and someone says, c'mon if you join us, we can do a four-way in which I acquiese but this breaks my plans as it is hard to say no. On another occassion, we had very limited ceiling to 3,800' and two people wanted to get at least a low pass in and I declined. Yes I've had to do a 3,500' jump for my license but I am just beginning to get that jump into my comfort zone.

I'm fortunate that I have exceptional friends at my DZ and it has been hard to say NO at times. Juxtaposed against this is the desire to improve skills jumping with others and jumping with others is a heck of a lot of fun. Soooo I went back to my instructor. I don't and I don't think you either want to stay at your current level of experience and it was my instructor who provided the best perspective and plan to "push the envelope" a little at a time and that's what I do. So your instructor does not stop being your instructor per se once you get your license. Continue to seek their advise. Plan your jump, jump your plan and if you're not ready to do a 2,,3,4, 5 way etc. politely tell your friends you'll let them know when you're ready!

Blue Skies

[BigMikeH77 0]

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I have found my brain fries if I alter too many variables in one go.

^^ Me too. Too much new makes me uncomfortable and almost certainly takes the fun out of fun jump. It's really hard for me to say 'next time' to jumping with a friend because there's so much more to be gained than if I'm jumping solo... But if it's a 5 minute call and I'm set in my dive flow it's best not to change that.

[Di0 1]

Another way to see it, it wasn't your first "2 way", you've doing 2 ways for the biggest part of your A-license jumps.
If the guy is experienced enough, don't be worried to jump with him/her, they know what they're doing, your focus should always be to fly your body and your spot, let the other experienced guy worry about matching fallrate and stuff (to a certain extent of course, and remember the eyecontact!).
Make sure you discuss contingency plans if (when) the formation goes to shit. always call for a break off altitude that makes you comfortable and lets you enough time to deal with things like that: the bigger the group, the more inexperience jumpers, the higher you should ask to break off. Don't be afraid to say something if they plan to break off too low, so that you don't look cool enough. Those are all things that might contribute to make you nervous and aggravate poor body positions and/or techniques, more thatn the fact it was a "2 way".
My advice is: think what were you doing for your coach jumps, why were your coaches deciding certain altitude, certain maneuvres, certain "limitation" to the task in the jumps? try to impose the same restraints on yourself when you start.
Personally, I don't think more solos would help (from a newb to a newb), out of my 44 jumps, I might have don 5 high solo, if that. I try to jump with people as much as I can. Because it's fun and because it's the best way to learn. Just be smart about it (like evrything else), relax (but not too much), smile. You know what you're doing, you've done it 20-something times already, you just need to start thinking about it now instead of relying on a coach telling you what to do.

I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

[DHemer 0]

I do not know the procedure elsewhere in the world but after 10 AFF levels we need to complete 7 ISP jumps (Intermediate skill program)

These are all 2 way jumps, some linked exit, some unlinked with basic FS and canopy skills to be performed on each jump. This sounds a bit like what the british do.

The advantage of this was that by the time I got my licence I was fairly used to doing 2 ways.

Now my story of when I found myself in your position:

Just after getting my licence I go off to a boogie. I have been doing 2 ways so Lets try a 3 way next
So 2 A-licence and a C-licence jumper get together for a jump and we plan a horny gorrila.
The jump went moslty to plan but funneled after we released arms. After being flipped upside down and then tracking next to another jumper I turn away, track and go to pull. Worst pull I had done up to this point. I was over amped and rushing things
Dropped my right shoulder, almost flipped over. kept the pilot chute in my hand, got stable and released. Got very close to doing what you did

Lesson learnt: Take things slow. Try one new thing at a time. Dont put yourself on jumps you know you should not be doing. Relax and dont panic

[PixieUK 0]

DHemer

I do not know the procedure elsewhere in the world but after 10 AFF levels we need to complete 7 ISP jumps (Intermediate skill program)

These are all 2 way jumps, some linked exit, some unlinked with basic FS and canopy skills to be performed on each jump. This sounds a bit like what the british do.

Nope, the British A licence is 8 AFF jumps with 1 or 2 instructors depending on the level, (the 8th being a hop and pop) and 10 solo consolidation jumps. There is no coaching and no 2-way until after the A licence.

In order to jump with other people, we then need to pass FS1 or be on a coached jump, or with someone who has at least a C licence and the jump has been approved by the CCI. The requirements for passing FS1 can be accelerated by coaching in a tunnel but there are certain things that can't be practiced in a wind tunnel, like the swoop and pin.

Many people go straight to FS1 immediately after their A licence because of the desire to jump with other people, but actually it's not a requirement to progress to start with. I am doing my CH2 next and will worry about jumping with others once I've got my landings sorted

A mind once stretched by a new idea never regains its original dimensions - Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr

[Trafficdiver 8]

"Experience is what you get when you don't get what you expected."

[TommyM 3]

What was so horrible? You learned things that can't be learned on the ground.
Most experienced jumper have plenty of those types of jumps in their log book, me included. I wouldn't give any of my bad jumps back (well..maybe a handful) because in hindsight I realized that a little adversity, danger and failure is what made me a well rounded, experienced and safe jumper.

"Experience" is not just 100's of jumps at the same drop zone doing the same thing with the same people or lots of time riding in a hair dryer, it's throwing yourself out of the plane a bunch of times under different circumstances, some less than ideal....and screwing up. The sport will continually challenge you, that's why it's incredibly rewarding when things go well.

[davelepka 4]

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Just as I was getting ready, a guy I know runs up to me and offers to fun jump with me. I agreed and off we went.

As mentioned, the above quote is the key point to this story. Think back to every single jump you made before that, you planned out every aspect with the help of an instructor/coach, reviewed those plans several times, and even then you were jumping with a 'professional' jumper who was going to able to fly their slot on the dive with no problem.

So now you're on your own, the first jump you make is with a jumper of unknown skill/experience, and it's decided at the last minute that you are going to jump together.

Did you have a dive flow? Did you rehearse it and the exit several times before hand? Did you talk about the skills you might need to use within that dive flow, and review the techniques for employing those skills? Did you build the break-off, track, and deployment into that planning/practicing, and look at those thinks as individual skills that merit consideration?

So those are mostly rhetorical questions, however, those do represent the preparation that you should be going through on all your student jumps with an instructor/coach, and if you don't maintain that standard, that level of prep, you're going to get what you had, a sloppy, and potentially dangerous skydive.

Are you to blame? Maybe not. Is the other guy? Depending on his experience level, maybe or maybe not.

Not all instructors/coaches will present things to you in the way that I did. If nobody points out that you've been making highly prepared jumps with professional skydivers thus far, and that you to maintain that level of planning into your 'fun' jumps, how would you know that? It might be easy for you to assume that any 'experienced' jumper is going to conduct themselves that same way that the 'professional' you're used to jumping did when you jumped together, but as you can see, that is not the case.

Moving forward, now you know. Take your time, and carefully consider every aspect of the jumps you're going to make. Think through the entire process from gearing up to walking back to the hanger, and make sure you can visualize a successful outcome on all aspects. Be critical of the people who want to jump with you, consider their skill/experience level when making decisions regarding that. Sure, two newer jumpers can jump together, but you might need to pull in a 'professional' to help with the planning to make sure that the two newbies have all the bases covered.

[DrDom 0]

I would say not so much "horribly awry" as "unexpected learning opportunity".

As long as you learned from it and are alive, then its probably something you will never do again!

You are not the contents of your wallet.

[Kalrigan 6]

Every mistake you make or a shady jump you have you will learn from it. I have 3 jumps that I will never forget, they were stupid, and I know I will never repeat those mistakes again. Make sure you do that, learn from it. It is an experience. In my logbook I wrote those jumps down with a line that describes wtf happened and how possibly bad/wrong it was and I will always remember them.

For the future, don't change your jump so close to getting on the plane, especially after you have planned it and rehearsed it. That can get you, especially when you're new. I learned not to do that, plan the jump and jump the plan. Period.

[DrDom 0]

Kalrigan

Every mistake you make or a shady jump you have you will learn from it. I have 3 jumps that I will never forget, they were stupid, and I know I will never repeat those mistakes again. Make sure you do that, learn from it. It is an experience. In my logbook I wrote those jumps down with a line that describes wtf happened and how possibly bad/wrong it was and I will always remember them.

For the future, don't change your jump so close to getting on the plane, especially after you have planned it and rehearsed it. That can get you, especially when you're new. I learned not to do that, plan the jump and jump the plan. Period.

A friend of mine left his logbook open on the table and I saw 2 entries with yellow highlighter on them. I asked "Why the highlighting" and his response was they were the jumps he should never forget because "something happened" that was a learning point.

Not every jump will go as planned, the trick is to know what you're doing to the point you survive it, and learn from it. Important lessons, each one.

Our margin of error is EXTREMELY narrow, so never stop refining your skill

You are not the contents of your wallet.

[Kalrigan 6]

DrDom

***Every mistake you make or a shady jump you have you will learn from it. I have 3 jumps that I will never forget, they were stupid, and I know I will never repeat those mistakes again. Make sure you do that, learn from it. It is an experience. In my logbook I wrote those jumps down with a line that describes wtf happened and how possibly bad/wrong it was and I will always remember them.

For the future, don't change your jump so close to getting on the plane, especially after you have planned it and rehearsed it. That can get you, especially when you're new. I learned not to do that, plan the jump and jump the plan. Period.

A friend of mine left his logbook open on the table and I saw 2 entries with yellow highlighter on them. I asked "Why the highlighting" and his response was they were the jumps he should never forget because "something happened" that was a learning point.

Not every jump will go as planned, the trick is to know what you're doing to the point you survive it, and learn from it. Important lessons, each one.

Our margin of error is EXTREMELY narrow, so never stop refining your skill

A highlighter is a great idea. I either use a red pen for those jumps (regular jumps get written down with a black or blue), or I just draw some weird things on the page: stars, skulls, whatever else that would grab my attention.

[dtthorne 0]

We have all been there in one way or the other. The most important thing is to remember to have fun, safely! I agree with making sure you have a plan for a fun jump, keep it simple and enjoy learning to fly with other people. When I first started my fun jumps it was me and another newbie, we both had about the same number of jumps and had some great laughs and spent a lot of time chasing each other as we learned! You can almost always find someone around with a little more experience than you to take a jump with and that will increase your opportunities for success greatly as you continue to learn to fly. There truly is no feeling in the world that compares to flying with others! Blue skies and stay safe!

[Ron 7]

Well you didn't get seriously hurt... So it was not "bad'.

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Which were both new to me. Just as I was getting ready, a guy I know runs up to me and offers to fun jump with me. I agreed and off we went.

1. Don't do a bunch of new stuff on any single jump. If you normally get out at 13.5 and pull at 5k. Then either get out at 13.5 and pull at 4k or get out at 15k and pull at 5k.

2. Have a plan, stick to the plan. After you get experience, you can modify the plan a bit, but right now, stick to the plan. If you planned a solo and the guy is not a rating holder.... Stick to the solo.

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I had already pulled the pilot shoot

Chute.

Quote

Does anyone else notice this or it just because I'm so new to jumping with others?

Adding people adds stress. Go slowly and make sure that the person you are jumping with is similar enough, or skilled enough, to make it work.

For example, an AFFI would have had no problem staying with either of the two on your jump. You guys had issues because of inexperience.

Small steps.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[DanG 1]

You pulled, you lived, it could have been worse.

One thing no one else seems to have mentioned is that your break-off was probably too low. If you were planning on pulling at 4,000ft, breaking off at 5,000ft is too low. You want at least 1,500ft between break-off and pull time. I would recommend adding another 500ft to that since you're new and doing new stuff. Breaking off at 6,000 instead of 5,000 would give you about ten seconds instead of five. In that time you need to turn, track, wave off/clear airspace, reach, and pull. It's pretty unlikely you could do all that in five seconds without getting flustered, or going low.

- Dan G

[ChrisD 0]

Chelseaflies

Today I was all set up to do a solo, my 27th jump. I just got freshly A licensed yesterday and also got my high altitude. So, I was planning on jumping from 15,000ft and opening at 4,000ft. Which were both new to me. Just as I was getting ready, a guy I know runs up to me and offers to fun jump with me. I agreed and off we went.

After we exited, I think I was so focused on him, I didn't arch enough and ended up flipping around a bit. After I got stable, we flew around a bit but I was falling too fast for him. So we both spent pretty much the entire skydive trying to make it to each other. I found it very hard to dearch and definitely decided I needed more practice on it. At 5,000ft we broke off and I went to track away, once I got away I went to pull and accidentally tipped myself over. In a split second I was on my back and I had already pulled the pilot shoot out so I had to let go. I got abruptly yanked up and whiplashed my neck pretty bad (or at least I'm hoping it's only whiplash) on the opening. Luckily all the parachute had was a few twists and all I had was whiplash and a hurt ego.

I was really surprised, throughout all 26 of my jumps, even the aff,  my openings have all been perfectly stable. The thing I did learn from this, is how important it is to be STABLE upon opening. I also realized that it seems to be very easy to get sidetracked when fun jumping, at least I find that I focus to much on the other person and forget to arch or whatever. 

Does anyone else notice this or it just because I'm so new to jumping with others? 

Link to USPA page about Pull Priorities: Pull

Lots of 2 ways don't go as planned, I don't really care about that....

but remembering to follow yor pull priorities is in fact a really great accomplishment
My concern is how you have described pull' ing as "having to let it go...."

If you had said something like:

""Wanting to follow the pull priorities I dumped regardless of my body position or stability,"" I actually would rather hear you say something like that as compared with you pulled ""because you had your pc in your hand anyways."" You phrased this as "I had to let it go."

There is a clarity that comes from making a choice as compared to circumstances forcing you into some action.

I want to congratulate you on following your pull priorities, there is a hierarchal nature to this that many don't fully grasp because of the difficulty of this concept.

But because of the way you have phrased it it leaves a little room for doubt.

The way out of this is of course to rephrase how you tell yourself this story in that:

" At 5,000ft we broke off and I went to track away, once I got away I went to pull and accidentally tipped myself over. In a split second I was on my back and I had already pulled the pilot chute so, following my pull priorities I let it go."

I know this might be perceived as splitting hairs and a minor point but considering you are doing so well with everything else, you might as well strive for perfection with one of the most important concepts in jumpin.
C

I want to take a moment [I] for some or any other student [/I] that might come upon this most excellent thread and use what you have said by adding emphasis to the word: how . I think this is important enough to mention it here.

Can the word How be confused with the word most? Apparently it can considering the numbers or the potential for a less than desirable outcome.

No, the most important thing is following your pull priorities.

Far too many have made the mistake of confusing being stable with the number one pull priority. Again, there is a hierarchal nature to this which many have difficulty fully understanding the concept. Being stable is important but not at the expense of going low to get stable.

"It don't mean a thing if you don't pull the string."

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."