Is this how you really do a demo???

[BillyVance 34]

First two totally flub the landing, third kinda flubs it, last one has to really run it out.

Not a really good representation of the sport to the general public, I'm sorry to say. They should be lucky no one was hurt. Oh and guess what? They all land downwind!

http://www.2020vertical.com/media/skydiving/aug2007/bassproshops.wmv

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[stayhigh 2]

all 3 who really messed up had 9-cell. one of them using x-fire.. use right gear for right situation, i guess... but what the hell do i know..

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[WatchYourStep 0]

Billy-

I skimmed the video really quick, what are you using to tell the land downwind?

Are you basing it off the direction of the plane on jumprun or the direction the dirt goes when the landings don't go as planned?

Thanks

"You start off your skydiving career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience up before your bag of luck runs out."

[popsjumper 2]

...depends on what you are demonstrating.


Side note:
Obviously an Open Field or Level 1 jump requiring only a C-license with no canopy size restrictions.

Not being a swooper nor a HP canopy pilot, somehow I can't imagine qualifying for a Pro rating with a hot rod canopy (landing within 5 meters of a target and stand up the landing all within a 10 meter circle).

Which begs the question, not that I would expect any tell-tale answers - I wonder how many people qualify on one size canopy and then jump a smaller one on the Demo.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[dharma1976 0]

I am about to go work on my accuracy jumps with a velocity 103

you can fly accuracy with just about any kind of canopy its just a little thing we like to call canopy piloting...

I will let ou guys all know how it goes

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[AndyMan 7]

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Not being a swooper nor a HP canopy pilot, somehow I can't imagine qualifying for a Pro rating with a hot rod canopy (landing within 5 meters of a target and stand up the landing all within a 10 meter circle).

That's not a problem. If you're qualified to fly a pocket rocket, learning how to hit a small target isn't very hard. I earned my pro-rating honestly at a 1.9 wingloading.

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Which begs the question, not that I would expect any tell-tale answers - I wonder how many people qualify on one size canopy and then jump a smaller one on the Demo.

Funny, I usually do the exact opposite! I fly a big triathlon for most of my demos. See attached,

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I got my original PRO rating on a StarTrac, but then recertified on every other canopy I thought I might someday have a reason to use into a demo. Those include the Sigma 370 tandem main, my Firebolt 350 tandem main, and several very-small canopies all the way down to my old Cobalt 75. Before there was such a thing as a PRO rating, I always jumped an old Lazer 7 250 into demos. PRO cards are just like motorcycle DDC cards: they allow you to use the size you certified on and that's it. Our team was ramp checked twice at demos and they wanted to see who was jumping what (visually) in order to compare against the copies of our cards we submitted.

Back to the point though: use the right tool for the job.

Chuck

[steveorino 7]

eeew. Ugly wasn't it? And I thought I was messing up when I don't nail the 50 yard line and hit the 45-49 yard line instead. That video put that into perspective.

BTW, I use a Sabre 190 for demos (my regular canopy is a stiletto 150)

steveOrino

[BillyVance 34]

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Billy-

I skimmed the video really quick, what are you using to tell the land downwind?

Are you basing it off the direction of the plane on jumprun or the direction the dirt goes when the landings don't go as planned?

Thanks

There are clues. Late in the video, one of them was heard saying they landed downwind. Then confirmed it by reading their DZ forum thread. I'm not going to name people. You just have to figure it out with a little sleuthing work.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[popsjumper 2]

Cool pics!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[WatchYourStep 0]

Thanks I didn't have my sound turned on.

"You start off your skydiving career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience up before your bag of luck runs out."

[DSE 3]

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There are clues. Late in the video, one of them was heard saying they landed downwind. Then confirmed it by reading their DZ forum thread. I'm not going to name people. You just have to figure it out with a little sleuthing work.

Even without the comment, the dirt blows in the direction of landing, and in the first two landings, it appears that the canopy partially reinflates. Maybe it was very light winds that shifted after takeoff? No ground smoke to indicate wind direction?

Good thing they weren't wearing white.

[johan420 0]

It wasn`t that bad...i have seen worse demo than this one...

[murps2000 86]

what are you using to tell the land downwind?
***

Whenever you see someone land and their canopy nose dives into the ground after they come to a stop, that person just landed downwind.

[billvon 2,421]

>Whenever you see someone land and their canopy nose dives into
>the ground after they come to a stop, that person just landed downwind.

That happens in zero wind as well.

[Clark7766 0]

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First two totally flub the landing, third kinda flubs it, last one has to really run it out.

Not a really good representation of the sport to the general public, I'm sorry to say. They should be lucky no one was hurt. Oh and guess what? They all land downwind!

http://www.2020vertical.com/media/skydiving/aug2007/bassproshops.wmv

1st off I'm the person who video taped the landings so I guess I know better than Billy Vance about what went on that day. Billy needs to get a life, I don't see him posting any videos of him doing any demos. I'm also the owner of the website www.2020vertical.com and I'll just ban any linking from dropzone to my website and put a stop to any video being watched from these forums.

2nd, the police were swamped with more people than was expected so they had to use the original landing area for public parking instead. This happened about 20 minutes before jumpers out.

So we had to go to an alternative landing area that had not been discussed much less looked at. And by the way the public couldn't even see the landings from where they were at a 1/4 mile away.

Then the stuff you don't see, powerlines, trees, guy on a bulldozer, a big sloping hill going the wrong direction, etc.... prevented the landing from being up wind. And the smoke canister that was suppose to be setoff on the ground failed.

So Billy needs to shut his mouth until he can show us some video of him doing something better.

Oh and by the way the public was in awe and treated the skydivers like celebrities. So ultimately the skydivers did their job and thrilled the public and stirred up some interest in the audience for skydiving.

Mission accomplished.

[simplyputsi 0]

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last one has to really run it out.

If that is really running it out then most of the landings I see people are really having to run them out.

What you should be pointing out is that the girl landed better than all the guys. Could have something to do with wingloading though.

I will say it appears at least two of the first 3 seemed to not realize they were landing downwind, or don't know how to land downwind. Think a pro rating would be aware of that stuff

Skymama's #2 stalker -

[wildcard451 0]

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Quote

First two totally flub the landing, third kinda flubs it, last one has to really run it out.

Not a really good representation of the sport to the general public, I'm sorry to say. They should be lucky no one was hurt. Oh and guess what? They all land downwind!

http://www.2020vertical.com/media/skydiving/aug2007/bassproshops.wmv

1st off I'm the person who video taped the landings so I guess I know better than Billy Vance about what went on that day. Billy needs to get a life, I don't see him posting any videos of him doing any demos. I'm also the owner of the website www.2020vertical.com and I'll just ban any linking from dropzone to my website and put a stop to any video being watched from these forums.

2nd, the police were swamped with more people than was expected so they had to use the original landing area for public parking instead. This happened about 20 minutes before jumpers out.

So we had to go to an alternative landing area that had not been discussed much less looked at. And by the way the public couldn't even see the landings from where they were at a 1/4 mile away.

Then the stuff you don't see, powerlines, trees, guy on a bulldozer, a big sloping hill going the wrong direction, etc.... prevented the landing from being up wind. And the smoke canister that was suppose to be setoff on the ground failed.

So Billy needs to shut his mouth until he can show us some video of him doing something better.

Oh and by the way the public was in awe and treated the skydivers like celebrities. So ultimately the skydivers did their job and thrilled the public and stirred up some interest in the audience for skydiving.

Mission accomplished.

Thanks for the clarification. And the laugh.

One question I do have though...

Why did you all decide to go ahead with a demo where the crowd couldn't see the landings, into a landing area that you hadn't scouted, with a shitload of landing hazards?

Why not just scrub it since they scrubbed your demo area, rather than risk the landing into a sketchy place?

Just curious.

[WatchYourStep 0]

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1st off I'm the person who video taped the landings so I guess I know better than Billy Vance about what went on that day. Billy needs to get a life, I don't see him posting any videos of him doing any demos. I'm also the owner of the website www.2020vertical.com and I'll just ban any linking from dropzone to my website and put a stop to any video being watched from these forums.

2nd, the police were swamped with more people than was expected so they had to use the original landing area for public parking instead. This happened about 20 minutes before jumpers out.

So we had to go to an alternative landing area that had not been discussed much less looked at. And by the way the public couldn't even see the landings from where they were at a 1/4 mile away.

Then the stuff you don't see, powerlines, trees, guy on a bulldozer, a big sloping hill going the wrong direction, etc.... prevented the landing from being up wind. And the smoke canister that was suppose to be setoff on the ground failed.

So Billy needs to shut his mouth until he can show us some video of him doing something better.

Oh and by the way the public was in awe and treated the skydivers like celebrities. So ultimately the skydivers did their job and thrilled the public and stirred up some interest in the audience for skydiving.

Mission accomplished.

I'm no pro, but Clark your statement means the demo wasn't prepared very well (based only off of what I read in your statement). I've only done 2 demos so my experience is limited.

So we had to go to an alternative landing area that had not been discussed much less looked at.

And the smoke canister that was suppose to be setoff on the ground failed.

Both these statements are red flags for me. Clark if you aren't sure why, then ask. Maybe you realize that things could have been done better in the planning. If so then the demo was a success. If not then even though no one was hurt and the crowd was amazed, the fact that no new knowledge was gained makes it unsuccessful.

Good luck and be safe.

"You start off your skydiving career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience up before your bag of luck runs out."

[RichardCranium 0]

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Why not just scrub it since they scrubbed your demo area, rather than risk the landing into a sketchy place?

'cause there was money involved?
'cause there ain't much professionalism in skydiving?
why does "flatville" sound so familiar?

[billvon 2,421]

Glad everyone's OK. All in all, the demo didn't look that bad; whuffos are impressed by any sort of landing after a skydive. A few suggestions:

>So we had to go to an alternative landing area that had not
>been discussed much less looked at.

Our demo team has a pretty firm rule that we don't jump into areas we haven't seen from the ground. If such a thing happened on one of our jumps we'd scrub the jump. We explain this beforehand so that the client isn't surprised or upset when it does happen.

> And the smoke canister that was suppose to be setoff on the ground
>failed.

We always bring backups for smoke; usually streamers. These can be cheapo plastic tape on sticks if need be. We also have a ground crew who can stand there and just point into the wind.

[diablopilot 2]

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2nd, the police were swamped with more people than was expected so they had to use the original landing area for public parking instead. This happened about 20 minutes before jumpers out.

A Pro, would cancel the demo when that happens. Your ground crew was not doing their job.

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And the smoke canister that was suppose to be setoff on the ground failed.

No back up?

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Oh and by the way the public was in awe and treated the skydivers like celebrities. So ultimately the skydivers did their job and thrilled the public and stirred up some interest in the audience for skydiving.

Those that came up and talked to you. How about those that didn't and went home and told their friends and family how the "skydivers" pounded in.

Try looking like skydivers on demos too. T-shirts? Ragity freefly pants?

What kind of experience did the group have?

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[matthewcline 0]

And if a 7711-2 was submitted and a 7711-1 issued (depends on what the local FSDO saw around the sight for "congested") the Demo should have been canceled by the special provisions.

Glad no one was hurt, and that yes some thought skydiving was cool and the jumpers got treated well.

But I am even "Gladder" no one got hurt and put a negative light in focus on our sport from a Demo that should have been at least postponed till proper re-arrangements could be made.

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Clark7766 0]

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Why not just scrub it since they scrubbed your demo area, rather than risk the landing into a sketchy place?

'cause there was money involved?
'cause there ain't much professionalism in skydiving?
why does "flatville" sound so familiar?

1)The Flatville comment was totally uncalled for.

2) yes there was money involved.

3) The President of Bass Proshops, Lynyrd Skynyrd, and NASCAR driver as well as 6000 people were there and gorgeous blue skies with light winds.

4) the landing area that was used was huge, just couldn't come in upwind and there was a huge American Flag as nearby as well.

[Clark7766 0]

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I'm no pro, but Clark your statement means the demo wasn't prepared very well (based only off of what I read in your statement). I've only done 2 demos so my experience is limited.

So we had to go to an alternative landing area that had not been discussed much less looked at.

And the smoke canister that was suppose to be setoff on the ground failed.

Both these statements are red flags for me. Clark if you aren't sure why, then ask. Maybe you realize that things could have been done better in the planning. If so then the demo was a success. If not then even though no one was hurt and the crowd was amazed, the fact that no new knowledge was gained makes it unsuccessful.

Good luck and be safe.

The mission was to please the crowd, in that aspect mission accomplished.

And yes knowledge was gained. Be better prepared next time. I'm willing to admit that one.

There are quite a few things that could have been done different and next time they will.

As far as the landings themselves I saw a Golden Knight botch his landing at the last Coca Cola 600 at the track in Charlotte held under the Winston Cup Banner. 2004 I think