"Regularity" of Jumping Question

[BerryBoy 0]

I just had my first tandem jump back in August 07'. I had been wanting to skydive as long as I remember and finally had the opportunity to do so...I had so much fun I couldn't stop talking about it for months.

So here we are 5 months later, and all of a sudden I have this dream about skydiving a week ago and now I can't stop thinking about it just like the weeks leading up to my first jump. I'm asking myself...is this really what I want to do...I AM crazy!

Right now I am SO busy with pursuing my doctorate that I plan on making tandems until I graduate, have spare time, and can focus my mind on "fun" (note: others know this word as "having a life"). Long term (after graduate school), I would love to commit to AFF training since it makes more sense than spending $150 a pop on a tandem every few months when you could learn how to do it yourself hands-on with instructors. My goal is to be able to run out on a free weekend and make several jumps...say every 2 or 3 months. So, after hearing the back-story, my real question is, "Is the regularity of my anticipated frequency of jumping going to be safe?" I know many of you (forum members) are weekend regulars that rack up hundreds of jumps. My hope is to not HAVE to do that just to "remember" how to jump so I don't get rusty. "Is my expectations reasonable and can I go months without jumping so early after learning the basics and how to do them on my own?" "Will I forget or need more training if the frequency of my jumping is only every 2 to 3 months from the time I finish AFF onward?" "Are there people like me out there who can safely enjoy skydiving on a casual basis?

[AggieDave 6]

There are those out there that jump as infrequently as you're describing; however, their skill level never increases and they're basically stuck doing solos and/or small formation jumps that tend to be unsuccessful.

Moreover, people who jump more frequently are more proficient with flying their canopy. That's where the majority of injuries and deaths occur, so shooting for something closer to 100 jumps a year at a minimum is something to think about.

There are currency rules in place with the USPA BSRs. While a student you need to complete at least one jump a month or you have to go through retraining. After that the time period is longer, but the concept is the same.

I think you'll find that if you continue on to get your license and you enjoy skydiving that you will want to jump more and none of this will be a problem.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Jaker 0]

Wow, I asked nearly the same question in nearly the same way just after my tandem jump. Your schedule is definitely tighter than mine, I just have lots of hobbies.

I start AFF in two weeks.
I'll now defer to those with the qualifications to answer your questions! Good luck!

[gearless_chris 1]

I think you can get away with it. You will have to stick with a conservative canopy, but that's ok it'll save lots of money. There are a lot of jumpers in my area that make less than 50 jumps a year, granted some of them had 500 jumps before they semi-retired. As far as are you going to be safe, the biggest concern for you is going to be the canopy flight. If your dropzone has a big landing area it would help.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[jlmiracle 7]

Go to USPA.org and download the SIM. On page 108 you will find the recurrency requirements for each license.

Now, IMO, yes, I guess it can be done safely jumping every 2-3 months, but I don't recommend it.

I see the "casual" jumpers you are referring to but most come out at least once a month, not every 2-3 months.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[grannyinthesky 0]

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now I can't stop thinking about it just like the weeks leading up to my first jump. I'm asking myself...is this really what I want to do...I AM crazy!

I can understand that feeling so well. I did a "one-time" tandem October 7. My thoughts went from "I could do this again" to "Maybe a tandem every year on my birthday" to calling the DZ to find out about training, all in the space of about 4 hours. With winter weather being what it is, I should have waited until spring to start, but there was just no way i could bring myself to do that. And, I've decided if this is CRAZY, so be it. It's waaaaay too much fun. I have had to deal with weather cancellations and instructor availability on a regular bases (only 3 jumps since the weekend after Thanksgiving) and it does seem that not being able to jump more often makes it a lot harder to learn. I suspect the experienced jumpers are going to have a lot to say about 2-3 months between jumps. Two weeks is a lot for me.

"safety first... and What the hell.....
safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy

POPS #10490

[grannyinthesky 0]

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I start AFF in two weeks.

That is great. I hope you have as much fun as I am.

"safety first... and What the hell.....
safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy

POPS #10490

[grannyinthesky 0]

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As far as are you going to be safe, the biggest concern for you is going to be the canopy flight. If your dropzone has a big landing area it would help.

Is there one big enough? During my FJC I wondered how you could ever miss the great big student area we have. On my last jump (#3), I found out it's pretty easy to miss. Canopy control is definiitely a challenge for me. During freefall the instructors are right there with you and able to really help a lot. Once under the canopy, other than some radio help, you sure have to be a lot more self-sufficient.

"safety first... and What the hell.....
safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy

POPS #10490

[Brains 2]

I will add a couple things to what AggieDave said. If you jump more regularly during your student status, it will make things a lot easier on you, you will see progress and be less frustrated. After getting your license, jumping so infrequently will severly limit your skills and while you may not be "unsafe" you will be frustrated or bored of not having anyone to jump with, or not progressing in skills. Usually the people we see that do what you are asking, don't last more than a year and they are gone for good, they just find something else or get bored with it. I think it is possible and if it is something you truly want to do then you will find the time.


Side note, Dave, i am going to need a recurrency, set up the course and let's do a couple 14k H&P's

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[dannydan 0]

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My hope is to not HAVE to do that just to "remember" how to jump so I don't get rusty.

I laid off for 5 years after being cleard for freefall with a total of 36jumps. I didnt forget anything! I had to obviously do a recurrent PRCP~PracticeRipCordPull jump on SL (static line)

WHEN after you get done with business (doctorate), go through and complete the student program re, SL, AFF, AFP etc get yr A~lic and DO at least 4-6 jumps a month! With rental gear or your own!

If you like jumpin that much after yr A lic, I would highly suggest that you start looking at your OWN gear with room to upsize as you get older and or heavier! Only because of the comfort level of yr own vs. student gear... you WILL fly better to because yr gear fits you better!!! And with the good paying job b/c of yr doctorate, the manufactures would just love to put YOU in the best that YOUR money will buy!!

SAFETY is a BIG concern if you layoff for extended periods.... ALWAYS!!!

HATS off to ya Bro... WELCOME to OUR WORLD!!!

:DD

[Para5-0 0]

Did you ever think of a trip to a southern DZ, where weather and Instructors are not an issue. You can bang it out fairly quick and be warm while doing it?
I think you would enjoy that. Not to mention the less time between each jump will make getting through a bit easier than weeks between jumps.
Just a thought.

[squarecanopy 0]

I had a student progression that was less than ideal. Starting in September of 2003 (at 45 years of age) I only made 9 student jumps over the next 9 month period due to the Colorado (winter) weather and the DZ closing where I started AFF. I moved to a new DZ and on my 10th jump I broke my right leg just above the ankle and was off 15 months. I finally got back to AFF and finished my A and B licenses, struggling at times with the safety issues getting burned into my brain, extended times in between jumps, and shoulder surgery to repair an old motorcycle injury. With that experience so far in my 4 year time in the sport, my advice would be plan to start AFF when you can dedicate a block of time, say 10 days, to getting from jump 1 to completion of an A license (dead minimum 25 jumps) all at one time. Then commit to making at least 50-100 jumps over the next 12 months. At that point, if you want to take your foot off the gas for other things in your life, at least the safety basics are locked in pretty well and you will have a much better chance of being a safe "casual" jumper.
Blue Skies, Safe Landings-
Bill

Just burning a hole in the sky.....

[kschilk 0]

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There are those out there that jump as infrequently as you're describing; however, their skill level never increases and they're basically stuck doing solos and/or small formation jumps that tend to be unsuccessful.

Moreover, people who jump more frequently are more proficient with flying their canopy. That's where the majority of injuries and deaths occur, so shooting for something closer to 100 jumps a year at a minimum is something to think about.

There are currency rules in place with the USPA BSRs. While a student you need to complete at least one jump a month or you have to go through retraining. After that the time period is longer, but the concept is the same.

We all can only relate to our own experiences but I have to disagree with most any implied relationship, between competence and/or "experience".....and jump #s. From what I've seen, quantity tends to lead to complacency....repetition can be mind-numbing. Fewer but more varied jumps, can be more beneficial. Making 1000 jumps from the same plane, at the same altitude, at the same dz, under virtually the same conditions....that's just making 1 jump, 1000 times. It's the variations and the variety, that give you the most "experience". ...but that's all just my op.

In general, the currency requirements are as per the dz....some are by-the-book and some are more casual. In many cases, you're as current, as the dz's bankbook says you are.

"T'was ever thus."

[councilman24 36]

I'm going to be the negative voice here. I've known many, many people that never got beyond one or two hundred jumps. They often were jumping like you imagine, every month or two or three. A lot of times their student jumps were spread out over one or two or three years. They were NOT safe for themselves or for others. I saw many come close to getting hurt. I saw some get hurt. One or two died in this category died.

The problem is not that you will forget something, but that you won't keep learning. Each jump will be catching up to where you left off. In freefall skills, emergency skills, and canopy skills and in all the other knowledge needed to be safe. Nothing will be come second nature or be comfortable. Building on experience and learning how to deal with all the possible situations takes some routine. You also won't have the benefit of learning from the mistakes of others, the general knowledge passed along as you hang around the DZ, watching how others more experienced handle particular conditions or situations. Each jump is different. Different wind direction, different lighting, different traffic, different distance to the landing zone, different awareness on your part. Dealing with these differences is easier when you not worried about remembering the basics.

One older couple I knew were sharing a rig. They'd come out and make a couple of solo jumps every few weeks. Stability never became second nature. I watched her PC leave and thought that she was still going to die it was so low. (pre cypres days, no AAD) Her canopy opened the fastest I had ever seen it and she lived. She barely had time to release her brakes if she even did. When she got back to the DZ she didn't even know anything had went wrong. She had got on her back and didn't pull until she managed to get on her belly, having no idea how low she was EVEN AFTER a 20 second canopy ride. He, later that same year, managed to spiral his canopy all the way into the ground breaking his back. He had no idea how low he was. This was long before swoop landings. He wasn't trying to hot dog, he just turned all the way into the ground. Was it the infrequency of the jumping that did this? It didn't help. AND he was a danger to others coming through the pattern. They didn't have the chance to acquire the base skill level that would keep them safe. They were always behind in the learning curve.

Most people in this situation of low jump numbers and infrequent jumps do survive and don't hurt themselves. But I don't think they ever get full enjoyment out of jumping because they're never comfortable. Eventually they fade away.

Another similar kind of jumper that makes a few a year brought his gear to a local rigger friend of mine for the first time. It needed some upgrading and I did some of the work. During the discussions with this guy and his buddy we found out they had very little clue of the gear they had, including one thinking he had an AAD when he didn't! This is extreme but again you never have the chance to learn about the gear because your not using it, packing it and watching others use their gear to learn the fine details. Simple malfunctions may be handled fine. Students with few or no jumps handle them every year. But avoiding a cascade of problems because you haven't been around enough to learn what can go wrong is harder to do. And complex malfunctions may be a lot tougher.

Skydiving isn't just what you learn in AFF. It's how to read the wind and weather, how to know when NOT to get on the airplane, how to look out for traffic, freefall or canopy, when you no longer a student and nobody is looking out for you, how to take care of your own gear and know when something needs attention or how to make sure you know how to work the rental gear. It's knowing the limitations of others and how to watch out for them.

CAN you do what you outlined? Sure. Will you have fun? Maybe, or maybe not if your always worried about catching up to where you were.

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"Is the regularity of my anticipated frequency of jumping going to be safe?"

If you had a 500 or a 1000 jumps BEFORE you slowed to this pace, sure. Right from the start I don't think so.

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"Is my expectations reasonable and can I go months without jumping so early after learning the basics and how to do them on my own?"

Not in my opinion.

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"Will I forget or need more training if the frequency of my jumping is only every 2 to 3 months from the time I finish AFF onward?"

It's not so much that you will forget, but you will have to reinforce the previous training and not have a chance to progress.

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"Are there people like me out there who can safely enjoy skydiving on a casual basis?"

Sure. One guy I knew got his reserve packed every year so on his birthday he could come out and make one jump. He did this for several years. He had a 100 or so when he started this. Or course it was a ROUND parachute, but he survived. Until he finally realized that it wasn't worth the risk. And at this point I'm at best a casual skydiver for the moment. But that came after 2500 jumps.

Skydiving isn't like tennis, or bowling, or even skiing. All of these things I've done a few times in my life. I've never gotten any good. But the consequences are a blister, or making a fool of myself or snow down my neck. The consequences of not being very good skydiving are a little, or a lot, worse.

Don't get me wrong. I love skydiving. I miss it when I'm not. And I think everybody should try it. But I don't think everybody should be a skydiver. And part of it is time available, especially in the beginning.

If you read the other responses they aren't enthusiastic YES, this works. They are sure, probably, maybe. Nobody wants to tell you no because we have so much fun and want you to also. But, you asked.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[grannyinthesky 0]

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Did you ever think of a trip to a southern DZ, where weather and Instructors are not an issue. You can bang it out fairly quick and be warm while doing it?
I think you would enjoy that. Not to mention the less time between each jump will make getting through a bit easier than weeks between jumps.
Just a thought

No, I hadn't thought of that. I know it would really be better to be able to jump more often, but I hadn't considered that before getting started here (I prepaid my first 16 jumps to save a fair amount of money. I figured if I prepaid, neither of my kids could come up with an emergency that would need the money, or if they did, it was too late). Can we say impatient? It looks like it going to work out ok. I'm scheduled again on Monday, and now that i only need one instructor, that will help too. Warmer weather would sure be nice, but I won't have that here in Idaho for a couple of months. Thanks for the idea though.

"safety first... and What the hell.....
safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy

POPS #10490

[BIGUN 1,053]

A. In reading your profile and your post, I can't help but think that it's a matter of timing and right now the timing doesn't sound good. For as long as you've been on the planet, have you ever looked up and not seen sky? Well, the sky will still be there when the timing is right. Of most concern is the "every 2-3 months." If that's the case, the occasional tandem until the timing is good _may_ get you your fix.

B. "IF" you would like an alternative suggestion, there are many DZ's that can help you get thru the training in about a week (meaning - released for solos and coach training thru the A License which can take ~month). After that, you'd have to commit to _at least_ one weekend a month to do several (5-10) jumps to stay one notch ahead of the breakeven curve (meaning learning a little something each weekend to make you more proficient and meeting AggieDave's position of ~100 jumps per annum - 10 jumps month.... 10 months out of the year). If you can't do this, then you'll find the local populace of skydivers will tend to not take you seriously and/or help you with progression in the sport and you'll remain flat in your learning, become frustrated and become another adios to the sport.

If not B, then A.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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There are those out there that jump as infrequently as you're describing; however, their skill level never increases and they're basically stuck doing solos and/or small formation jumps that tend to be unsuccessful.

Moreover, people who jump more frequently are more proficient with flying their canopy. That's where the majority of injuries and deaths occur, so shooting for something closer to 100 jumps a year at a minimum is something to think about.

There are currency rules in place with the USPA BSRs. While a student you need to complete at least one jump a month or you have to go through retraining. After that the time period is longer, but the concept is the same.

We all can only relate to our own experiences but I have to disagree with most any implied relationship, between competence and/or "experience".....and jump #s. From what I've seen, quantity tends to lead to complacency....repetition can be mind-numbing. Fewer but more varied jumps, can be more beneficial. Making 1000 jumps from the same plane, at the same altitude, at the same dz, under virtually the same conditions....that's just making 1 jump, 1000 times. It's the variations and the variety, that give you the most "experience". ...but that's all just my op.

In general, the currency requirements are as per the dz....some are by-the-book and some are more casual. In many cases, you're as current, as the dz's bankbook says you are.

I would like to know how many jumps you have.

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I have to disagree with most any implied relationship, between competence and/or "experience".....and jump #s.

This is the only part of your post I can agree with. You also need to have a willingness to learn and listen. I made many of my 1800 jumps at the same DZ and there is no way I could say that they were all the same or mind numbing. Now ,if you are one of those people that don't want to listen to people and maybe no one would jump with you,I can see how you might get bored.

Your notion that less is better is ridiculous. While I would agree with it on a scale of maybe 100 REAL coached jumps verses 500 weekend fun jumps. We are talking about the barest minimum in this thread. A new jumper just off AFF waiting 3 months to come back out to the DZ is not safe and should not be allowed to jump without recurrence training.

Your notion that recurrence is tied to profit only is rediculous at best. New jumpers laying dead around the DZ is bad for business.

[kschilk 0]

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We all can only relate to our own experiences...

Yeah, like I said......

"T'was ever thus."

[jakee 1,254]

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From what I've seen, quantity tends to lead to complacency....repetition can be mind-numbing. Fewer but more varied jumps, can be more beneficial.

But more more varied jumps would be even more beneficial.

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Making 1000 jumps from the same plane, at the same altitude, at the same dz, under virtually the same conditions....that's just making 1 jump, 1000 times.

Just because jumps are from the same plane at the same DZ doesn't mean they have to be even remotely similar.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kschilk 0]

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But more more varied jumps would be even more beneficial.

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I agree but the OP is talking about infrequent jumping.

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Just because jumps are from the same plane at the same DZ doesn't mean they have to be even remotely similar.

I'm no expert but "the same plane & at the same dz" and "the same plane and at the same dz".....that sounds remotely similar to me.

"T'was ever thus."

[Airman1270 0]

You'll be fine. The biggest problem you'll deal with is an element of DZ culture that worships at the altar of currency.

Does any DZ in your area offer static-line training? This program allows you to make a few jumps and learn the basics for less money than AFF or a string of tandem$. Just a thought. Many of the best skydivers you'll ever meet went the static-line route. You'll master basic skills and gain a boatload of confidence even when you "only" have a few dozen jumps.

My student career spanned over two years, including that layoff after my first-jump injury. After that, I continued to jump at a very modest pace. At my peak I averaged about 60-70 jumps per year. I currently average fewer than 30-ish jumps per year, but I long ago learned the skills necessary to do this safely.

One of those skills is knowing my limits. You'll never find me doing head-down with ANYBODY or inserting myself in a 40-way without making sure the organizer knows my abilities. Nor do I have any interest in downsizing from my 220.

You can learn this sport at your own pace and jump safely as long as you can find people willing to allow you such flexibility and who won't constantly suggest that you're a jump ticket away from certain disaster.
A clear mind and a safe attitude will more than compensate for a sporadic schedule.

Cheers,
Jon S.

[BerryBoy 0]

First off, I am encouraged by the many responses to my question even though I've made just one tandem and many of you have made hundreds or thousands of solos.

Secondly, it would take take me half a day to respond to so many thoughtful, informational, educational, and cautionary tales that have given me much of the information that I need to make a safe decision. That said, to sum it all up I'm sure that most everyone here can agree that "safety" is the primary concern regardless of the many facts or opinions presented in these posts. I am all for it too folks--jumping out of a plane is a big deal when your life AND those of other jumpers are at stake.

From what I gather, the regularity or frequency of jumping should not be taken lightly, especially at the beginning of my training. My "revised" plan is to finish graduate school, then begin working on my AFF training and finish in 1 to 2 weeks time. Then I can focus on jumping every 2 weeks thereafter to gain the skills I need to receive my A license. I'm guessing a minimum of 6 to 8 months until I could start thinking about going 3 to 4 weeks in between jumps? At that point, after hearing the safety concerns of the jumpers that shared their opinions in these posts, I would commit to jumping at least every month, but never more than 3 months in between when it's winter up here and my vacation days are all taken. I would see to it that I have at least 100 jumps a year. I know this varies for each person depending on their skill progression, but what are your thoughts on the revised plan that I just specified? I know it is safer, but is will it be safe enough for me to be a skydiver? Granted I know that I will be tempted to jump more than I actually have time for, yet this scenario would be pretty much true to what my schedule may permit. I take safety very seriously and want to be a responsible jumper--that is why I'm asking the advice of experienced jumpers!

[PhreeZone 15]

100 jumps a year is a great spot that will have you still advancing your skills and actually being able to do more then "fall and pull". More jumps and expecially things like tunnel time and coaching will push the skills higher but that is not always possible.

There are a whole lot of the "fall and pull" jumpers out there and statistically each year they make up a fairly small portion of the incidents that occur compared to the general population. The issue I see a lot of them have is that once they reach a certian point in terms of not jumping its harder and harder to keep coming back so they usually end up quiting. That or they do not catch on that with a 6 month break they can not go hop on a jump and perform the same as they did before their layoff and it adds to frustration or injury and they quit because of it.

I know from experience that will be hard to look at "peers" that start at the same time as you but because they jump more frequently they quickly advance beyond what you can do and they are invited on jumps that you are not.

Once you get involved in the sport you might find it more enjoyable then other activities in your life currently and might hang those golf clubs/baseball mitt, etc up and take up skydiving every other weekend or more. Then again you might find skydiving just to be too big of an expence and takes up too much time and will only want to do it once every 6-12 months. If you are getting to that point there is nothing wrong with taking some time to decide if skydiving really is a priority for you or not. If its not thats fine too since you''ll always be a skydiver now that you've jumped from a plane.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[skr 1]

:-) :-)

There is another danger besides just living or dying
due to currency.

I started jumping between my junior and senior years.

By the time my master's orals rolled around I stayed
up very late the night before drinking beer and telling
jump stories.

I made it through the PhD qualifying exams in real
and complex variables, but I was really having a hard
time bridging the gap between what I was seeing on
the weekends and what I was seeing about life in a
math department.

I sat through a year of algebra and topology, never
took the exams, dropped out, got a job and jumped
like crazy.

Then I let go of the job and moved into my van
and lived at the dropzone.


I guess it all turned out OK, but it was certainly
a fork in the road.

Skr

[grannyinthesky 0]

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but I was really having a hard
time bridging the gap between what I was seeing on
the weekends and what I was seeing about life in a
math department.

I can understand the feeling. Trying to prepare for the winter quarter that starts Monday is proving difficult. I would really rather be at the DZ preparing to jump out of an airplane. Teaching math used to be the center of my life. Now it's becoming the means to live the life I want. I still think it's a great job, but some of the luster has been replaced by the lure of the sky.

"safety first... and What the hell.....
safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy

POPS #10490