Hop and Pops

[robertmicp 0]

All I have left for my A lic is the two hop and pops (3500 & 5500). Any tips on the best exit? Im stable very quick once out the door. I guess my big issue is my hard deck is 3500 and doing that pop at 3500 kinda freaks me out. I dont know if its a so much lower or ground rush thing. Any tips would be great.

"Also I heard the voice of the Lord saying who shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, here am I, send me."

[quade 3]

I assume you'll do the higher of the two hop & pops first.

From 5500 you'll have -plenty- of time to correct any instability issues, maybe 10-15 seconds before getting to your pull altitude so it really shouldn't be too much of a worry. At this point in your training you should be able to stablize yourself from any tumble or spin.

From 3500, the idea will be to clear the airplane, be stable right out the door and as soon as you see the tail of the plane pass in front of you be ready and deploy. This is a true hop & pop.

If you're getting freeked out, it's because it's something you haven't done before at such a low altitude. With that in mind, use your 5500 hop & pop to practice your exit position so you'll know it's not that big of a deal.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Frenchy68 0]

I had the same concern before I did my H&P. Everything went just fine. Remember that your fall rate out of the plane is nowhere near terminal, so if you take a five seconds delay, you will probably be only about 500ft lower than your exit point. I've always heard (and tested positively) that the best exit in this case is facing the relative wind (which would be the prop blast in this case). Out of curiosity though, if your hard deck is 3,500ft, how high do you usually pull?

Nick

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[robertmicp 0]

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Out of curiosity though, if your hard deck is 3,500ft, how high do you usually pull?

Been pulling between 4500 - 4000. I think its a comfort zone thing. I never though about that I will not be at terminal speed on exit to pull. Is the open slowing not being at terminal? I will do the 5500 first and pull once I see the tail of the plane go by. I know that alitude awhereness has been drilled into me, but, to be honest on a h&p, do you really look?

"Also I heard the voice of the Lord saying who shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, here am I, send me."

[rendezvous 0]

Do a poised exit and you should be fine. You'll have plenty of time to work with doing a hop'n'pop at 3500 feet. Set up for a good poised exit, relax, exit, arch and pull. Don't worry about the fact that 3500 is your hard deck. If your plane was to ever have an emergency at or below 3500 and your pilot wanted you to get out you would have to go. At that point it won't matter if 3500 is your hard deck or not. What will help you though is the thought that you've done an exit at that altitude before.

[Reginald 0]

Talk to your instructors about changing your hard deck for your 3,500 hop n pop. Have a plan and follow it....

You'll be fine. You will be suprised how fast you are under a good canopy on a hop n pop.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[skyhighkiy 0]

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Is the open slowing not being at terminal?

I've been told the canopy opens faster if you're sub-terminal because there's less wind resistance holdingn your slider. but, because you're falling so slow, it'll seem like a loooong time. we did a couple hop'n'pops at 3 grand and we had a nice 5-10 second freefall be 4 we had to pull, no sweat man.

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I know that alitude awhereness has been drilled into me, but, to be honest on a h&p, do you really look?

on this altitude of hop'n'pop, most of the people I know don't wear an alti, helmet,anything, just a parachute and the wind. count to 5 and pull from 3500, you'll be open w/ plenty of time to spare

BE THE BUDDHA!

[LearningTOfly 0]

My solo checkout jump was a hop 'n pop from 3.5ish. They aren't terribly bad- just hop out stable in the relative wind- fire a peace sign to the next guy in the door and then dump. I thought mine was actually pretty cool, just watching the plane fly away as I pulled... the openings are a tad softer, as well.

And remember that 3500 is still a long way up.

[Frenchy68 0]

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Is the open slowing not being at terminal?

My UN-EDUCATED GUESS would be:
1/ The canopy takes more time to open at sub-terminal
2/ The canopy takes less vertical distance to deploy at sub-terminal

Nick

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[kelel01 1]

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1/ The canopy takes more time to open at sub-terminal
2/ The canopy takes less vertical distance to deploy at sub-terminal

DING DING DING! We have a winner! Not less time to open, but less altitude. BIG difference.

[billvon 2,404]

>Is the open slowing not being at terminal?

Softer but it takes less distance. If you pull at 3500 you'll be open within 100-200 feet.

>I will do the 5500 first and pull once I see the tail of the plane go by.

OK, keys there are 1. make sure you're stable all the time (i.e. from exit to deployment) and 2. be prepared for the softer/different opening. It will feel like you are being 'pulled backwards' when the parachute opens.

> I know that alitude awhereness has been drilled into me, but, to be
> honest on a h&p, do you really look?

No real need to. I tell my students count to 1 thousand (to clear the tail) and deploy. No reason to check your altimeter; it's not going to change in one second. But as always, go with what your instructor/coach tells you.

[mjosparky 3]

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've been told the canopy opens faster if you're sub-terminal because there's less wind resistance holdingn your slider. but, because you're falling so slow, it'll seem like a loooong time. we did a couple hop'n'pops at 3 grand and we had a nice 5-10 second freefall be 4 we had to pull, no sweat man.

You were told wrong, a canopy opens slower at slower speeds. If you took a "nice 5-10 second freefall" from 3,000 feet it was not a hop & pop. It was a 5-10 second freefall.

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on this altitude of hop'n'pop, most of the people I know don't wear an alti, helmet,anything, just a parachute and the wind. count to 5 and pull from 3500, you'll be open w/ plenty of time to spare

Maybe you should let one of the instructors explain to this jumper what to do not these jumps.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[robertmicp 0]

Thanks to everyone for the great "tips".

Im going to talk with my instructor about my hard deck on these jumps. Also, if I do a "one thousand" count and deploy, wont I still be on the "hill" ? Can anyone explain what this does to your deployment?

Thanks

"Also I heard the voice of the Lord saying who shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, here am I, send me."

[AggieDave 6]

Initially it doesn't really do anything to your deployment. Wind is wind. Once you're under a canopy and as you start to slow down throughout the deployment you'll start to "swing" back to a "normal" site picture with the ground below your feet. Initially during the deployment since you're in the relative wind, the canopy will "stand you up" but you'll be more of a butt to earth orientation. The wind is still coming from the correct direction for your canopy, its just the relative wind from the airplane's flight/prop(s) and not from falling.

Remember, no matter what you read on DZ.com, you need to ALWAYS talk to your instructors. There is a lot of bad information spread on this website.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[robertmicp 0]

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Remember, no matter what you read on DZ.com, you need to ALWAYS talk to your instructors. There is a lot of bad information spread on this website.

I look at it as "more questions" to ask my instructor when planning the jumps. Thanks

"Also I heard the voice of the Lord saying who shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, here am I, send me."

[bob.dino 0]

In my (limited) experience, the most important thing to do is relax. When I was doing a h'n'p from 2.5k on my first sport rig (jump 20-ish), I was so amped I nearly threw the pilot chute into the side of the plane!

Chill, smile, blow everyone on the load a kiss, then off you go and have fun!

[Kramer 0]

It wasn't long ago at all I was doing my 3,500 foot hop and pop to get off student status. I was totally freaked out getting out that low, now I do 5 backloops before pulling from that altitude (I am NOT suggesting this...just letting you know that sooner than you will think, 3,500 won't seem too bad at all). Relax Relax Relax!
Oh, and like Dave said, don't take my, or anyone else's BS too seroiusly on this site when asking a seroius question. The above was only meant to comfort ya a bit, not train ya at all.

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[kelpdiver 2]

Hey, Robert. You're at exactly the same point I was. Middle of August I did jumps 29 and 31 at Davis to meet the H/P requirements and finish. I was there on a weekday, so I did it out of the 182. New plane for me, slower speed.

The 5500 jump gets you comfortable with the process - they taught me a couched on the strut rear facing dive and the deployment happens on the hill so your facing down much more than you would typically.

Key of the 3500, and they'll repeat it to you, is don't rush the pull. You have a lot of time. They may simulate an emergency and say "GET OUT!" I leaped out, did a forward roll, got stable, then threw and I was still under canopy by 3100. I thought that took 5 seconds to pull, the AFF said it was closer to 3.

If you're stable quick out the door, you're ahead of me at that point. To deal with the nervousness, I didn't even think about the ground and just focused on the exit, stable, throw sequence.

[dnewcomer 0]

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"Any tips would be great."

If you pull PC at 3,500' AGL on a Hop & Pop, your canopy should be open before 3,400'. Kewl!!! If you pull PC at 3,500' at terminal, your canopy may not be out by 3,000'. Why is this so?

On a Hop & Pop, the prop wash and forward (horizontal) movement of the plane through the air are what create the air flow that causes your canopy to come out.....not your body's downward motion (as occurs in a normal skydive from altitude). This means your canopy will deploy immediately after you pull PC even though you have barely started going down. Your canopy will be coming out as your body is moving horizontally, not vertically. You're still "at the top of the hill," so to speak.

You'll get a different feel compared to canopy deployment in FF --- you'll feel like the canopy is pulling you backward instead of upward. The opening should also be softer because you're not moving through the air (in any direction) as fast as you would be at terminal, unless the plane is traveling forward at 120 mph.....which is unlikely. (What are you going to be jumping out of?)

For Hop & Pops, I've always found it helpful to concentrate on keeping my head up and keep looking up at the plane while I stay in a relaxed arch as soon as I leave the step if I'm exiting a Cessna. If you're exiting an Otter, face the prop wash with your right foot in the doorway and just make a small hop to the left.....again keeping your head up and watching the plane. That will assure you won't tumble and end up with your bridle coming up between your legs. This is just something that has worked for me and others.....if your instructor doesn't think these suggestions are helpful, follow his advice. I assume you wouldn't be asking for "tips" if you had a clear idea.

In England, it is apparently common for skydivers to do demo jumps (I believe they call them "display" jumps) from a mere 1,000' - 1,500' altitude .....at least that is what some of my British skydiving friends who moved into my area have told me. This may sound like a base jump to many of us, but if the plane has reasonable forward speed, it is far from a base jump. Apparently the Brits don't think anything of it. (Jumping out of a hot air balloon from 1,000' - 1,500' --- now that's an entirely different thing.)

Hope this info is useful. Have a great H&P!

D--
WEB SITE: www.newconthenet.com

[jumpinjackflash 0]

Still freaks me out. But I'm working on it.

My tip? I always blew them before because I couldn't resist looking down.

When you hop?

As with other jumps, ignore the ground for a moment, and look at the horizon.

Easy to do when theres someone across from you to focus on, not always as easy when there isn't.

My last one rocked. Because? I got good body position/arch looking at the horizon, then pulled.

Truly groovy, you can do it if I can.

I'm hella scared of heights. Thirty Five Hundred is not high enough for me. LOL

Is that just goofy shit or what?


jjf

disclaimer: Your Mileage May Very. Ask Your Instructor. I, Like You, Know Nothing and Am A Newbie. My probs above reflect my freaky issues. LOL
Just sharing.

It's a gas, gas, gas...

[masher 1]

Hey. My first jump was done at 3500'.

I got scared on my first jump from height.

I'm scared of heights below 1000'....

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[sweep 0]

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In England, it is apparently common for skydivers to do demo jumps (I believe they call them "display" jumps) from a mere 1,000' - 1,500' altitude .....at least that is what some of my British skydiving friends who moved into my area have told me. This may sound like a base jump to many of us, but if the plane has reasonable forward speed, it is far from a base jump. Apparently the Brits don't think anything of it. (Jumping out of a hot air balloon from 1,000' - 1,500' --- now that's an entirely different thing.)

I wouldn't entirely agree with that comment, although things may be different for military jumpers doing demos as part of military duty.
Certainly under the sport rules (applying to civilians and military jumpers off-duty) holders of C licence and above on display jumps are permitted a container-opening altitude of 1500' as opposed to the normal 2000' for experienced parachutists. The reasoning behind this is to allow for hop and pop style jumps when there is a low cloudbase. Realistically therefore display jumpers should not exit below say 1600' AGL.

However that is civilians - I don't know about the rules for military dropping, but I did see paras doing static line rounds out of a Herc at approx 800' AGL on a military DZ the other day : quite a sight!

They do a relatively high-speed run-in to provide airspeed to get the canopy open, and the canopies are open not much below the level of the A/C, initially almost at right angles to the ground but then the para swings back under it.

So it may be that on a military display people might exit 1000-1500' but I have to say I'd be surprised as I understood usually displays were done under the sport rules...

BTW I know I have low jump numbers to be spouting off on stuff, but I've been doing a lot of DZ control for a display team this summer, so this is an area I'm quite well mugged up on....

Cheers and BSBD,

Sweep

----
Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

[billvon 2,404]

>I was totally freaked out getting out that low

Always sounds strange to me. I made my first jumps at altitudes from 2500-3000 feet. The first time I went to altitude I remember thinking "this is crazy! Who can spot from two and a half miles up?" Altitudes above 6000 feet freaked me out for a while until I got used to them. I guess it's all what you're used to.

[skymedic 0]

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the prop wash

if the propwash from a cessna 182 is what is "opening" your canopy....you didn't clear before you pitched.....

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[teason 0]

Wow.

Things do change from big DZ to small DZ.

We do IADs from 3000' and I've probably done at least 300-400 hop and pops from there. That's enough time for a couple of front or back loops (sometimes both). At least a 5 sec delay.
Don't stress out too much, think of it this way.
At terminal, 3500' is about 20 sec. to impact.
That is the same as a hop and pop from 2875'

Being at the door at 3500', you're just as close to the ground (timewise) as being at 4176' at terminal. At that point, you haven't even started your wave!

Why should 3500 descending at 0fps is disconcerting but 3500' at 174fps is business as usual?

It's all in your mind

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.