Help! I'm afraid to land!

[Ladybug 0]

I am getting progressively worse at landing. I stood it up three times during AFF, and I've gone steadily downhill ever since. I can slide it in ok, but one instructor keeps stressing that I need to stand it up or plf. I'd rather slide it in than PLF.

I've got 26 jumps now, I'm licensed, and I'm worried that I'm getting worse- not better - at landing.

Sometimes I flare too high and get dumped - that hurts, but last time I tried to flare lower and ended up landing on my bum. I bruised my tailbone badly and haven't been able to jump for the last few weeks.

Now I'm starting to get the landing jitters. Any advice?

Dawn

[riggerrob 558]

What are you watching when you when you flare?

[davelepka 4]

What canopies are you using, and what is your wing loading?

What canopies/WL were you using when you had better landings?

All of the above aside, take an additional canopy control class. Being in Florida puts you in close proximity to several good schools. Scott Miller comes to mind, I think you can look him up at freedomofflight.tv.

[AggieDave 6]

Have someone video your landings then sit down and debrief them with one of the instructors that is a really good canopy pilot. Watching yourself on video and getting debriefed will make all the difference in the world.

Flare too low is one thing, but "getting dumped" from flaring too high is either the canopy stalling or you letting up on the toggles. Remember feet and knees together smooth flare from about 12-15ft above the ground. Look out at about 45deg to get a good reference and reduce ground rush. Flare smoothly (if you're not low), 1, 2, FINISH.

If you do the video thing with an instructor, it'll make sense.
Good Luck!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[MarkM 0]

Quote

Now I'm starting to get the landing jitters. Any advice?

Before a jump, thinking about landing my parachute gets me more nervous than thinking about the rest of the jump
You should probably read Brian Germain's The Parachute and It's Pilot. It helped me a lot in not just understanding how my canopy flies but how I needed to prepare myself mentally as its pilot.

http://www.bigairsportz.com/publishing.php

Scott Miller also runs a course out of Deland. I haven't taken it yet(I plan to sometime this year), but I've heard nothing but good things about it.

http://freedomofflight.tv/public/index.php?which=canopy

[Ladybug 0]

On my last jump I used a sabre 190 - since I weigh 185 I'm going to assume my wing loading was too high. I don't care to use that canopy again.

Usually I'm jumping a Dolphin 210 or 220 (I hope that's the canopy name and not the container name).

I'm guilty of looking at where my feet are about to touch when I'm preparing to land. I've also started to lift my legs like we were instructed to do during tandom landings. I know this is wrong, I tell myself not to do it, but I end up doing it just the same.

I like the idea of videotaping my landings. I'm getting a lot of advice from the ground, but what they're telling me doesn't jibe with what I'm experiencing - a video would certainly help.

Thanks,
Dawn

[mattjw916 2]

If you are having landing problems you probably shouldn't be jumping a Sabre2 190... I weigh about the same as you and was jumping Sabre2 210s and Spectre 210s at your jump numbers. IMO, the Spectre was easier to land but I found the Sabre2 to be more fun and "swoopy".

Personally I vote for video+coaching+upsize.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[Ladybug 0]

I jumped the sabre 190 because my husband and I rent. Someone larger had already rented the 250 he usually flies, so he wanted to jump the 220 I usually fly. One of my instructors felt that I was ready - In retrospect, I'm not so sure.

At 26 jumps, I'm not interrested in downsizing like so many skydivers, I want something big and comfortable, something that doesn't respond too quickly, nice for landing. I'm not interrested in swooping or learning highly technical landings. I just want to stand it up comfortably.

I look forward to some level of comfort when I've finally been able to purchase my gear and I'm used to landing the same thing every time.

In the sabre's defense. My landing was exceptionally hard because someone was in my blind spot, and I didn't see him coming in under me. He stole my air and I plumeted. Not a good landing for a relative newbie. I'll be sure to land away from the regular traffic in the future.

[davelepka 4]

A Dolphin is the container,and yes, a 190 might have been a bit small for you, especially if your landings have been an issue.

If the 210 and/or 220 you are jumping is F-111, that may have an effect on your landigns. F-111 fabric loses it's ability to flare with age. Additionally, the WL you would be putting on an F-111 210 or 220 is similar to jumping a ZP 190 (like the Sabre).

If you are renting F-111 canopies, opt for a larger one (220 min.). An alternative would be to demo a 210 zp canopy (Sabre, Sabre2, Spectre) and see what you think.

Above all, seek some additional training. Current student progressions are short on canopy control info, and you may find that with armed with some additional info, your confidence and performce will improve.

[LittleOne 0]

Quote

I am getting progressively worse at landing. I stood it up three times during AFF, and I've gone steadily downhill ever since. I can slide it in ok, but one instructor keeps stressing that I need to stand it up or plf. I'd rather slide it in than PLF.

Sounds like my story. I took Scott Miller's Essential Skills class and it made all the difference in the world. Reviewing multiple proper landings in slow motion and then debriefing my own was invaluable. The other exercises gave me a sense of confidence that I thought I would never achieve. I cannot espouse the virtues of his class enough. I had heard or read about most of the material he presented elsewhere but he has an intangible presentation skill that, for me, made it all click.

At $150, it is the best deal in skydiving, IMHO.

[klafollette 0]

Besides all the technical stuff, probably the biggest thing to help me as a student was someone telling me "Don't think about landing. That will happen one way or another. Think instead about flying your canopy relative to the ground."

Feel how the canopy is flying as you approach the ground, think about controlling the speed, attitude, and altitude, so that the canopy has given up all its energy and quits flying just as your feet touch the ground.

Now, how to make your canopy fly the way you want it to comes from practice. Do it up high, practice flairing. You don't have a ground reference, but you can feel from the harness how the canopy (and you) slow down during the flair, when the canopy runs out of gas, how much toggle makes you pop back up, etc.

When you come in to land, don't look straight down, don't look out to the horizon. Look for the spot that isn't moving up or down, that is where you are going to land at any given moment of the landing process. As you begin to flair, that spot will continue to move further out in front of you. Fly yourself towards that spot as it continues to move farther out in front of you.

I'll second the idea of reading Brian Germain's book at http://bigairsportz.com. It's called "The Parachute Pilot" or something like that.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I'm guilty of looking at where my feet are about to touch when I'm preparing to land. I've also started to lift my legs like we were instructed to do during tandom landings. I know this is wrong, I tell myself not to do it, but I end up doing it just the same.

I like the idea of videotaping my landings.

The two bits that were messing up my landings were: 1) looking down and 2) only using about half of my flare range. I would plane out, but not apply any more toggle to slow down, leading to either a slide or a tumbling PLF.

Even if you can't get to some canopy training, you can probably talk someone into lending you video for the LZ and get a look at what you're doing.

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

but one instructor keeps stressing that I need to stand it up or plf. I'd rather slide it in than PLF.

Quote

I bruised my tailbone badly and haven't been able to jump for the last few weeks.

Looking back, why do you think the instructor stressed doing a PLF? Thats what instructors are for, to give you instruction on the proper way to do things.

Tell you husband to jump the 190 and you jump the 220. What is he, a wimp?

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[justinb138 0]

Thanks for posting that!. I'll have to give it a try, I've had some issues with my landings lately as well.

[sunshine 2]

Just wanted to pop in and say you're not alone. Many people have had this problem early on. Don't beat yourself up thinking you're the only one that struggles. Do work it out before you continue to develop bad habits though. You got some good advice in this thread so i won't add anymore to it.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[nael 0]

Sunny is right. I'm one of the many people who had landing difficulties early on. I stood up about 8 or 9 landings in total up until i had about 50 jumps. I had lots of instructors giving me tips and even got one instructor to give me one on one advice for about an hour before jumping one morning.

It all paid off in the end, but I was at the point where I was expecting to smack in on every landing. I think your mind plays a large roll in this also and if you think you're gonna smack in, chances are you will. Just relax, get ready to PLF, and if you stand it up, that's a bonus!

Don't feel like you're behind the curve, what you're going through is actually fairly normal. Just do a search on these forums and see how many threads there are similar to yours!

Good luck!

www.TerminalSports.com.auAustralia's largest skydive gear store

[mailin 0]

Wow... this is like looking in the mirror

I'm terrified of jumping again... on one of my last jumps I crashed on the taxi-way and am just now able to do stairs again (5 weeks later, very bruised tailbone ). I have yet to stand up a landing...

I'm really scared I'm going to break myself So much so that I'm spending money I would have spent on my own gear to go back to FL next week and take canopy pointers from Scott Miller at Deland. I've only heard good things about him and his school, and since your in FL (I'm in RI ) it would be easy for you to get there. Just in my emails with him I know it will be an invalueable experience... it had better be

Jen

Arianna Frances

[veter_ 0]

Quote

I've also started to lift my legs like we were instructed to do during tandom landings. I know this is wrong, I tell myself not to do it, but I end up doing it just the same.

That's how I got seriously hurt - broke my tailbone and both hands, lost a lot of blood - when I hit the edge of concrete with my a$$.

Nobody pointed out to me during my AFF and early jumps that lifting legs ala tandem passenger can lead to trouble, so I developed a muscle memory of doing my flare too late and getting away by lifting legs.

IMHO, it's better to flare 1-2ft higher that 1-2ft lower.

Save your a$$! :)

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

IMHO, it's better to flare 1-2ft higher that 1-2ft lower.

And its MUCH better to PLF when you're not perfect, be prepaired to PLF on every skydive, if you flare correctly then you'll be able to step out from your PLF position to take a step if you need to. If you NEED to PLF you're set and ready to go.

PLFs WILL SAVE YOUR ASS!!!

I don't know how many times folks need to hear this, but its true. Hell, I've got 1400 jumps and I still have to pull out a PLF if I screw something up. It happens to everyone and knowing as well as being prepared to PLF will save your ass!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Cloudi 0]

You won't be disappointed and that's a promise!

I'm a "spoiled" DeLand local who finally took Scott's essential skills course last week after 3 years of milking him for his generous, free advice. He genuinely enjoys sharing his knowledge and he is excellent at communicating it in a way you can easily understand. My landings have been pretty consistent (3 years of picking his brain certainly hasn't hurt!), especially over the last year, but I hadn't really achieved the level of confidence with my canopy that I wanted and thought I should have by now.

Wow!! I learned so much in his course, did things I thought I could never do, and have plenty of skills to practice under canopy for a long time to come. I have a much greater understanding of really flying my canopy and I have more confidence in myself as a canopy pilot. The course fee and the cost of getting here is worth every penny!

I hope I'll get to meet you while you're in DeLand! Have fun and don't be afraid to ask questions!

Kim
Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

[mjosparky 3]

Ladybug,

It was brought to my attention that a remark in my last post did not come across as I meant it to.

Quote

Tell you husband to jump the 190 and you jump the 220. What is he, a wimp?

I meant this as a tongue in cheek remark. I would never advocate someone the size of you husband, and with his experience, jump a 190 sq. ft. anything.

Please accept my apology and convey it to you husband.

Sparky

(Thank you DeN)

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[happythoughts 0]

Well, I know that about a zillion people have recommended Scotts class. Make it a zillion and one.

Get someone to video your landing. There should be bunches of people with cameras around. Ask one.

You mentioned two problems. When you watch the video, consider these items.

- Flaring too late.

- Not flaring all the way down. I have a good friend and great skydiver who refuses to flare all the way down. This causes them to butt-slide every landing.

- Reaching for the ground with a toggle. Fly the canopy all the way to the ground. Don't get close and then "reach" with a toggle, it will cause you to fall to one side very hard.

[Ladybug 0]

All in good fun Sparky, all in good fun. No offence taken.

Thanks for all of the wonderful advice guys. I'm not giving up, I'm just waiting out my recovery. I'll be back on that horse, uh, I mean - airplain, again soon.

Dawn

[white_falcon 0]

Nope, I'm not a wimp.
Scott
(the husband)

[white_falcon 0]

Quote

Ladybug,

It was brought to my attention that a remark in my last post did not come across as I meant it to.

Quote

Tell you husband to jump the 190 and you jump the 220. What is he, a wimp?

I meant this as a tongue in cheek remark. I would never advocate someone the size of you husband, and with his experience, jump a 190 sq. ft. anything.

Please accept my apology and convey it to you husband.

Sparky

(Thank you DeN)

Apology accepted, altough unnessary, I got the tounge in cheek.

Scott
(the Husband)