gerrcoin 0 #26 March 12, 2005 QuoteI think you might to listen to what "Beerlight" has to say about the physiology of high altitude. He knows his shit. Sparky I don't doubt it, I was just clarifying my thoughts on the matter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IvanPeters 0 #27 March 12, 2005 QuoteI think you might to listen to what "Beerlight" has to say about the physiology of high altitude. He knows his shit. Except the no booze thing. That's just not right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #28 March 14, 2005 While dead space is important it's not the whole story - if the partial pressure of the O2 isn't high enough the gaseous exchange won't occur efficiently, or at all. A google search will bring up more information, and I'm sure there are posters here who know more on this subject than I do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #29 March 14, 2005 >While dead space is important it's not the whole story - if the partial > pressure of the O2 isn't high enough the gaseous exchange won't > occur efficiently, or at all. Of course. Getting rid of dead space is one way of (slightly) raising ppO2. Supplemental oxygen in small amounts is the most common way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #30 March 14, 2005 On a slight tangent for those interested in the subject of human physiology in extreme environments, this is a very good and readable book. Ashcroft is an excellent writer and the book is thought provoking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GaryP 0 #31 March 14, 2005 Fantastic Thread - I'd like to add my experience and management technique of hypoxia. This is on dives up to 14K without supplumental O2. The usual experience of a climb to height for me was where I'd relax (sleep) from ground to about 11k then be active from 11k to exit from gearing up and psyching up on jump-run. What I found was that during the relaxed bit to 11k I was breathing very shallow and slowly - thus raising the co2 levels in my blood. Then, when 11k came around and it was time to be more active and use more o2 - it wasn't as readily available in the thinner air. This cycle of shallow breathing down low and active breathing up high was so apparrent that I reversed the cycle and found that it was best for me to SATURATE my bloodstream at lower altitudes by breathing deeply (slowly, semi-hyperventilating on air) while still resting for say 4k to 6k and then remaining at rest until the usual jump-run where I'd use meditative processes to keep overexertion to a minimum. This would raise the o2 levels in my blood. That way I'd find I would have available o2 in my blood at height when I needed it most and when it was most scarce. Other things that have helped - not singing or carrying-on during climb to height and turbo-prop aircraft. Hope someone finds this of help. g"Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beerlight 0 #32 March 14, 2005 I'd like to add to my original comments. Your body cannot "store" oxygen. If you don't think so, then hold your breathe. After one minute on average, you need to breathe again and therefore theory proven......(However, you can store the hell outta nitrogen) and a whole separate story there... Staying relaxed on the ride to jump altitude (lowered metabolic rate) will aid in warding off some of the symptoms of hypoxia. Also it's recommended: - Using supplemental oxygen when available. - Staying physically fit. - Not smoking/dip 4 to 6 hours prior to flight. - Reduced alchohol intake prior to flight. - Staying hydrated and fed. - Remaining out of the exhaust (more of a problem with turbine a/c). - Plenty of sex.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflygirlz 0 #33 March 14, 2005 REDUCE alcohol intake prior flight??? 12 hours before jumping NO ALCOHOL, as fare as I have learned... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #34 March 14, 2005 >Your body cannot "store" oxygen. Well, that's probably an issue of semantics. As I'm sure you're aware, we regularly jump from 25-26K without bailout oxygen. The way it works is that you remain on oxygen before the jump, then go off it and jump. The O2 stored in your lungs/blood/tissues are sufficient to keep you going until you descend to about 12,000 feet, at which point your lungs can once again give you enough O2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beerlight 0 #35 March 15, 2005 QuoteREDUCE alcohol intake prior flight??? 12 hours before jumping NO ALCOHOL, as fare as I have learned... Bwahaa! Try to tell a jumper NO Alcohol..!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beerlight 0 #36 March 15, 2005 Quote>Your body cannot "store" oxygen. Well, that's probably an issue of semantics. As I'm sure you're aware, we regularly jump from 25-26K without bailout oxygen. The way it works is that you remain on oxygen before the jump, then go off it and jump. The O2 stored in your lungs/blood/tissues are sufficient to keep you going until you descend to about 12,000 feet, at which point your lungs can once again give you enough O2. True Bill... There is supersaturation. As an example. One day I was breathing 100% O2 for about 4 hours straight at 25,000 feet. Decided to see how long I could hold my breathe. (Now my normal sea level ambient air breathhold is about 1 min 30 sec.) That day, due to supersat, 3 minutes easy... There ya go... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigbearfng 9 #37 March 15, 2005 Hey Bill, you've just got to move up here ...live at 7000ft helps, but then your doc might try to tell you you're polycythemic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #38 March 15, 2005 QuoteOne day I was breathing 100% O2 for about 4 hours straight at 25,000 feet. Decided to see how long I could hold my breathe. (Now my normal sea level ambient air breathhold is about 1 min 30 sec.) That day, due to supersat, 3 minutes easy... There ya go... Quote Without 100% and using a nasal cannula how long do you think that would be? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Beerlight 0 #39 March 15, 2005 QuoteQuoteOne day I was breathing 100% O2 for about 4 hours straight at 25,000 feet. Decided to see how long I could hold my breathe. (Now my normal sea level ambient air breathhold is about 1 min 30 sec.) That day, due to supersat, 3 minutes easy... There ya go... Quote Without 100% and using a nasal cannula how long do you think that would be? Sparky Hey Sparky, that would be hard to determine. Individual tolerance really. Most nasal cannulas are not tight fitting enough to prevent air from entering your body along with the 100% O2. New on the market, is a nasal cannula that is tight fitting and provides positive pressure on demand. But, I'm thinking it's not feasible for most DZ operators or necessary on jumps below 18K msl. Did that answer your question? Buck RTF: STS-114 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #40 March 15, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteOne day I was breathing 100% O2 for about 4 hours straight at 25,000 feet. Decided to see how long I could hold my breathe. (Now my normal sea level ambient air breathhold is about 1 min 30 sec.) That day, due to supersat, 3 minutes easy... There ya go... Quote Without 100% and using a nasal cannula how long do you think that would be? Sparky Hey Sparky, that would be hard to determine. Individual tolerance really. Most nasal cannulas are not tight fitting enough to prevent air from entering your body along with the 100% O2. New on the market, is a nasal cannula that is tight fitting and provides positive pressure on demand. But, I'm thinking it's not feasible for most DZ operators or necessary on jumps below 18K msl. Did that answer your question? Buck RTF: STS-114 Buck, It was a rhetorical question. At 25,000 you should be using a sealed mask and have done some pre-breathing. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites relyon 0 #41 March 16, 2005 Quote... At 25,000 you should be using a sealed mask and have done some pre-breathing. And even then it doesn't always work out right. An uncle of mine flew a B17 during WWII, mostly from altitudes ranging from 22K to 30K feet. On his 25th mission he was shot down over Poland and he and his crew bailed out from 24K. By his account he passed out then awoke somewhere around 10K. He deployed his seat pack, landed safely, was captured, and spent the last 9 months of the war at Stalag Luft I on the Baltic coast. His co-pilot wasn't so lucky. Uncle Jack says his chute failed. I'm guessing he never woke in time to pull. Mind you, this wasn't an average (or even not so average) skydive. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #42 March 16, 2005 QuoteQuote... At 25,000 you should be using a sealed mask and have done some pre-breathing. And even then it doesn't always work out right. An uncle of mine flew a B17 during WWII, mostly from altitudes ranging from 22K to 30K feet. On his 25th mission he was shot down over Poland and he and his crew bailed out from 24K. By his account he passed out then awoke somewhere around 10K. He deployed his seat pack, landed safely, was captured, and spent the last 9 months of the war at Stalag Luft I on the Baltic coast. His co-pilot wasn't so lucky. Uncle Jack says his chute failed. I'm guessing he never woke in time to pull. Mind you, this wasn't an average (or even not so average) skydive. Bob When I do work at higher altitudes I wear this. Hooked to an O2 console on the way up and Twin 53's (bailout bottles) on the way down. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Reginald 0 #43 March 16, 2005 QuoteWhen I do work at higher altitudes I wear this. Hooked to an O2 console on the way up and Twin 53's (bailout bottles) on the way down. Sparky Now THAT needs to go in the coolest looking type of skydiver thread! "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Beerlight 0 #44 March 16, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote... At 25,000 you should be using a sealed mask and have done some pre-breathing. And even then it doesn't always work out right. An uncle of mine flew a B17 during WWII, mostly from altitudes ranging from 22K to 30K feet. On his 25th mission he was shot down over Poland and he and his crew bailed out from 24K. By his account he passed out then awoke somewhere around 10K. He deployed his seat pack, landed safely, was captured, and spent the last 9 months of the war at Stalag Luft I on the Baltic coast. His co-pilot wasn't so lucky. Uncle Jack says his chute failed. I'm guessing he never woke in time to pull. Mind you, this wasn't an average (or even not so average) skydive. Bob When I do work at higher altitudes I wear this. Hooked to an O2 console on the way up and Twin 53's (bailout bottles) on the way down. Sparky heeheehee....very nice! that's a good lookin HGU-26/P? I had one but now wear a 55/P lightweight with a MBU-12/P mask also. Buck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #45 March 16, 2005 Quoteheeheehee....very nice! that's a good lookin HGU-26/P? I had one but now wear a 55/P lightweight with a MBU-12/P mask also. Its a HGU-33 with custom liner, Lighting Bolt custom paint and my name on the back. I be stylin now. Get on down yo bad self, Bitch! SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mt_skydiver 0 #46 March 16, 2005 Just a side note for all we've been talking about here...when doing any kind of experiment, it is important to note that many of these results may show a CORRELATION but not CAUSEATION of events. I think this is evident in many of the discussions as to the various techniques that people have to try and avoid hypoxia at higher elevations. I definately think that this is worth more studying and what we have so far is awesome, but just wanted to point out the facts of scientific experiments. Also, I am not saying any of you are wrong, just wanted to make sure that we are all clear on data and how it is used (especially as we are using it here). Wonderful thoughts and discussions! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Avion 0 #47 March 23, 2005 Thany you very much for posting this Bill. I think, I have noticed a touch of hypoxia on some 13.5 jumps, a distinct feeling, you called it fuzziness, and slight darking of the vision, like you get when holding you beath for a couple of minutes. I then beathed deep and slow and the feeling disappeared and the vision normalized in just a few beaths. I also noticed the symptoms would reappear if I went back to breathing shallow again. BTW this was in a Otter, 15-20mins to altitude. Without your post, I doubt that I would have recognized this for what it was. Thanks again, Brian Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Billy 0 #48 March 23, 2005 Thanks Bill, Couple years ago I was flying over the Rockies in an unpressurized plane at 12K MSL, and my Sa02 was ~84%. Now thats a pA02 in the 60's or so. Like ya'll stated, a few deep breaths would bring them up to mid 90's, normal. Just a few observations... Most folks climbing to altitude are sitting hunched up with a chest strap in place, decreasing your volume with each breath. I hadn't thought much before about loading, but it makes sense that while loading your sucking some exhaust, and like already stated, CO will hang onto your hemoglobin a lot longer than 02. You can have an Sa02 of 100% with a pA02 in the shitter! So don't get fooled. Being excited and breathing faster blows off C02, which is your bodys main respiratory drive. Hyperventilating before swimming underwater may or may not "bank" 02, but it will drive down your C02 and you won't feel the need to take a breath for a while. Breathing too fast on the climb low down will result in a slower rate up high. The excitement of finally getting your onto your load, sitting then on climb to altitude all hunched up, maybe some C0 from exhaust hanging around for 20-30 minutes in your blood, then exerting youself at altitude, I'm surprised more people don't feel funny. Natural Born FlyerZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites robskydiv 0 #49 March 23, 2005 Hi Bill. You mentioned that you would "crouch down." This would cause a restrictive problem preventing you from inhaling to TLC (Total Lung Capacity). Therefore while crouching down you were not taking in enough air (and therefore oxygen). As you discovered through experimentation, a slow, deep breath with an inspiratory sigh is the best way to improve oxygenation. It allows more time or O2 to cross the A/C (Alveolar/Capillary)membrane. This is the prescribed method of oxygen therapy for anyone who is taking a breathing treatment, IPPB, nebulizer, etc... A pulse Oximeter measures the O2 saturation of the capillaries inside the nailbed. An arterial Blood Gas will give you the amount of Partial pressure of O2 and Co2 that is in your blood. Hope this helps. Harry Robinson CRT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wingnut 0 #50 March 28, 2005 bill, do your figures have any corolation into starting out at diffrent elevations or does it even matter say wheni was jumping colorado with a field elevation of 6k msl or utah witha elevation of 4.5k msl does it not mater once a person has aclimated to the higher altitude, when we would go to 12.5k agl in utah wer were right at 17k msl but used no o2 ever, and never felt hypoxic (that i knew of for myself) does the o2 levels decreas at a set rate so that whenyou are "normal" at a set altitude when you go up an equal altitude as some one say 4k lower the numbers would be the same? ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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mjosparky 3 #38 March 15, 2005 QuoteOne day I was breathing 100% O2 for about 4 hours straight at 25,000 feet. Decided to see how long I could hold my breathe. (Now my normal sea level ambient air breathhold is about 1 min 30 sec.) That day, due to supersat, 3 minutes easy... There ya go... Quote Without 100% and using a nasal cannula how long do you think that would be? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Beerlight 0 #39 March 15, 2005 QuoteQuoteOne day I was breathing 100% O2 for about 4 hours straight at 25,000 feet. Decided to see how long I could hold my breathe. (Now my normal sea level ambient air breathhold is about 1 min 30 sec.) That day, due to supersat, 3 minutes easy... There ya go... Quote Without 100% and using a nasal cannula how long do you think that would be? Sparky Hey Sparky, that would be hard to determine. Individual tolerance really. Most nasal cannulas are not tight fitting enough to prevent air from entering your body along with the 100% O2. New on the market, is a nasal cannula that is tight fitting and provides positive pressure on demand. But, I'm thinking it's not feasible for most DZ operators or necessary on jumps below 18K msl. Did that answer your question? Buck RTF: STS-114 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #40 March 15, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteOne day I was breathing 100% O2 for about 4 hours straight at 25,000 feet. Decided to see how long I could hold my breathe. (Now my normal sea level ambient air breathhold is about 1 min 30 sec.) That day, due to supersat, 3 minutes easy... There ya go... Quote Without 100% and using a nasal cannula how long do you think that would be? Sparky Hey Sparky, that would be hard to determine. Individual tolerance really. Most nasal cannulas are not tight fitting enough to prevent air from entering your body along with the 100% O2. New on the market, is a nasal cannula that is tight fitting and provides positive pressure on demand. But, I'm thinking it's not feasible for most DZ operators or necessary on jumps below 18K msl. Did that answer your question? Buck RTF: STS-114 Buck, It was a rhetorical question. At 25,000 you should be using a sealed mask and have done some pre-breathing. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites relyon 0 #41 March 16, 2005 Quote... At 25,000 you should be using a sealed mask and have done some pre-breathing. And even then it doesn't always work out right. An uncle of mine flew a B17 during WWII, mostly from altitudes ranging from 22K to 30K feet. On his 25th mission he was shot down over Poland and he and his crew bailed out from 24K. By his account he passed out then awoke somewhere around 10K. He deployed his seat pack, landed safely, was captured, and spent the last 9 months of the war at Stalag Luft I on the Baltic coast. His co-pilot wasn't so lucky. Uncle Jack says his chute failed. I'm guessing he never woke in time to pull. Mind you, this wasn't an average (or even not so average) skydive. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #42 March 16, 2005 QuoteQuote... At 25,000 you should be using a sealed mask and have done some pre-breathing. And even then it doesn't always work out right. An uncle of mine flew a B17 during WWII, mostly from altitudes ranging from 22K to 30K feet. On his 25th mission he was shot down over Poland and he and his crew bailed out from 24K. By his account he passed out then awoke somewhere around 10K. He deployed his seat pack, landed safely, was captured, and spent the last 9 months of the war at Stalag Luft I on the Baltic coast. His co-pilot wasn't so lucky. Uncle Jack says his chute failed. I'm guessing he never woke in time to pull. Mind you, this wasn't an average (or even not so average) skydive. Bob When I do work at higher altitudes I wear this. Hooked to an O2 console on the way up and Twin 53's (bailout bottles) on the way down. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Reginald 0 #43 March 16, 2005 QuoteWhen I do work at higher altitudes I wear this. Hooked to an O2 console on the way up and Twin 53's (bailout bottles) on the way down. Sparky Now THAT needs to go in the coolest looking type of skydiver thread! "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Beerlight 0 #44 March 16, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote... At 25,000 you should be using a sealed mask and have done some pre-breathing. And even then it doesn't always work out right. An uncle of mine flew a B17 during WWII, mostly from altitudes ranging from 22K to 30K feet. On his 25th mission he was shot down over Poland and he and his crew bailed out from 24K. By his account he passed out then awoke somewhere around 10K. He deployed his seat pack, landed safely, was captured, and spent the last 9 months of the war at Stalag Luft I on the Baltic coast. His co-pilot wasn't so lucky. Uncle Jack says his chute failed. I'm guessing he never woke in time to pull. Mind you, this wasn't an average (or even not so average) skydive. Bob When I do work at higher altitudes I wear this. Hooked to an O2 console on the way up and Twin 53's (bailout bottles) on the way down. Sparky heeheehee....very nice! that's a good lookin HGU-26/P? I had one but now wear a 55/P lightweight with a MBU-12/P mask also. Buck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #45 March 16, 2005 Quoteheeheehee....very nice! that's a good lookin HGU-26/P? I had one but now wear a 55/P lightweight with a MBU-12/P mask also. Its a HGU-33 with custom liner, Lighting Bolt custom paint and my name on the back. I be stylin now. Get on down yo bad self, Bitch! SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mt_skydiver 0 #46 March 16, 2005 Just a side note for all we've been talking about here...when doing any kind of experiment, it is important to note that many of these results may show a CORRELATION but not CAUSEATION of events. I think this is evident in many of the discussions as to the various techniques that people have to try and avoid hypoxia at higher elevations. I definately think that this is worth more studying and what we have so far is awesome, but just wanted to point out the facts of scientific experiments. Also, I am not saying any of you are wrong, just wanted to make sure that we are all clear on data and how it is used (especially as we are using it here). Wonderful thoughts and discussions! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Avion 0 #47 March 23, 2005 Thany you very much for posting this Bill. I think, I have noticed a touch of hypoxia on some 13.5 jumps, a distinct feeling, you called it fuzziness, and slight darking of the vision, like you get when holding you beath for a couple of minutes. I then beathed deep and slow and the feeling disappeared and the vision normalized in just a few beaths. I also noticed the symptoms would reappear if I went back to breathing shallow again. BTW this was in a Otter, 15-20mins to altitude. Without your post, I doubt that I would have recognized this for what it was. Thanks again, Brian Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Billy 0 #48 March 23, 2005 Thanks Bill, Couple years ago I was flying over the Rockies in an unpressurized plane at 12K MSL, and my Sa02 was ~84%. Now thats a pA02 in the 60's or so. Like ya'll stated, a few deep breaths would bring them up to mid 90's, normal. Just a few observations... Most folks climbing to altitude are sitting hunched up with a chest strap in place, decreasing your volume with each breath. I hadn't thought much before about loading, but it makes sense that while loading your sucking some exhaust, and like already stated, CO will hang onto your hemoglobin a lot longer than 02. You can have an Sa02 of 100% with a pA02 in the shitter! So don't get fooled. Being excited and breathing faster blows off C02, which is your bodys main respiratory drive. Hyperventilating before swimming underwater may or may not "bank" 02, but it will drive down your C02 and you won't feel the need to take a breath for a while. Breathing too fast on the climb low down will result in a slower rate up high. The excitement of finally getting your onto your load, sitting then on climb to altitude all hunched up, maybe some C0 from exhaust hanging around for 20-30 minutes in your blood, then exerting youself at altitude, I'm surprised more people don't feel funny. Natural Born FlyerZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites robskydiv 0 #49 March 23, 2005 Hi Bill. You mentioned that you would "crouch down." This would cause a restrictive problem preventing you from inhaling to TLC (Total Lung Capacity). Therefore while crouching down you were not taking in enough air (and therefore oxygen). As you discovered through experimentation, a slow, deep breath with an inspiratory sigh is the best way to improve oxygenation. It allows more time or O2 to cross the A/C (Alveolar/Capillary)membrane. This is the prescribed method of oxygen therapy for anyone who is taking a breathing treatment, IPPB, nebulizer, etc... A pulse Oximeter measures the O2 saturation of the capillaries inside the nailbed. An arterial Blood Gas will give you the amount of Partial pressure of O2 and Co2 that is in your blood. Hope this helps. Harry Robinson CRT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wingnut 0 #50 March 28, 2005 bill, do your figures have any corolation into starting out at diffrent elevations or does it even matter say wheni was jumping colorado with a field elevation of 6k msl or utah witha elevation of 4.5k msl does it not mater once a person has aclimated to the higher altitude, when we would go to 12.5k agl in utah wer were right at 17k msl but used no o2 ever, and never felt hypoxic (that i knew of for myself) does the o2 levels decreas at a set rate so that whenyou are "normal" at a set altitude when you go up an equal altitude as some one say 4k lower the numbers would be the same? ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing × Sign In Sign Up Forums Dropzones Classifieds Gear Indoor Articles Photos Videos Calendar Stolen Fatalities Leaderboard Activity Back Activity All Activity My Activity Streams Unread Content Content I Started
Beerlight 0 #39 March 15, 2005 QuoteQuoteOne day I was breathing 100% O2 for about 4 hours straight at 25,000 feet. Decided to see how long I could hold my breathe. (Now my normal sea level ambient air breathhold is about 1 min 30 sec.) That day, due to supersat, 3 minutes easy... There ya go... Quote Without 100% and using a nasal cannula how long do you think that would be? Sparky Hey Sparky, that would be hard to determine. Individual tolerance really. Most nasal cannulas are not tight fitting enough to prevent air from entering your body along with the 100% O2. New on the market, is a nasal cannula that is tight fitting and provides positive pressure on demand. But, I'm thinking it's not feasible for most DZ operators or necessary on jumps below 18K msl. Did that answer your question? Buck RTF: STS-114 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #40 March 15, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteOne day I was breathing 100% O2 for about 4 hours straight at 25,000 feet. Decided to see how long I could hold my breathe. (Now my normal sea level ambient air breathhold is about 1 min 30 sec.) That day, due to supersat, 3 minutes easy... There ya go... Quote Without 100% and using a nasal cannula how long do you think that would be? Sparky Hey Sparky, that would be hard to determine. Individual tolerance really. Most nasal cannulas are not tight fitting enough to prevent air from entering your body along with the 100% O2. New on the market, is a nasal cannula that is tight fitting and provides positive pressure on demand. But, I'm thinking it's not feasible for most DZ operators or necessary on jumps below 18K msl. Did that answer your question? Buck RTF: STS-114 Buck, It was a rhetorical question. At 25,000 you should be using a sealed mask and have done some pre-breathing. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites relyon 0 #41 March 16, 2005 Quote... At 25,000 you should be using a sealed mask and have done some pre-breathing. And even then it doesn't always work out right. An uncle of mine flew a B17 during WWII, mostly from altitudes ranging from 22K to 30K feet. On his 25th mission he was shot down over Poland and he and his crew bailed out from 24K. By his account he passed out then awoke somewhere around 10K. He deployed his seat pack, landed safely, was captured, and spent the last 9 months of the war at Stalag Luft I on the Baltic coast. His co-pilot wasn't so lucky. Uncle Jack says his chute failed. I'm guessing he never woke in time to pull. Mind you, this wasn't an average (or even not so average) skydive. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #42 March 16, 2005 QuoteQuote... At 25,000 you should be using a sealed mask and have done some pre-breathing. And even then it doesn't always work out right. An uncle of mine flew a B17 during WWII, mostly from altitudes ranging from 22K to 30K feet. On his 25th mission he was shot down over Poland and he and his crew bailed out from 24K. By his account he passed out then awoke somewhere around 10K. He deployed his seat pack, landed safely, was captured, and spent the last 9 months of the war at Stalag Luft I on the Baltic coast. His co-pilot wasn't so lucky. Uncle Jack says his chute failed. I'm guessing he never woke in time to pull. Mind you, this wasn't an average (or even not so average) skydive. Bob When I do work at higher altitudes I wear this. Hooked to an O2 console on the way up and Twin 53's (bailout bottles) on the way down. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Reginald 0 #43 March 16, 2005 QuoteWhen I do work at higher altitudes I wear this. Hooked to an O2 console on the way up and Twin 53's (bailout bottles) on the way down. Sparky Now THAT needs to go in the coolest looking type of skydiver thread! "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Beerlight 0 #44 March 16, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote... At 25,000 you should be using a sealed mask and have done some pre-breathing. And even then it doesn't always work out right. An uncle of mine flew a B17 during WWII, mostly from altitudes ranging from 22K to 30K feet. On his 25th mission he was shot down over Poland and he and his crew bailed out from 24K. By his account he passed out then awoke somewhere around 10K. He deployed his seat pack, landed safely, was captured, and spent the last 9 months of the war at Stalag Luft I on the Baltic coast. His co-pilot wasn't so lucky. Uncle Jack says his chute failed. I'm guessing he never woke in time to pull. Mind you, this wasn't an average (or even not so average) skydive. Bob When I do work at higher altitudes I wear this. Hooked to an O2 console on the way up and Twin 53's (bailout bottles) on the way down. Sparky heeheehee....very nice! that's a good lookin HGU-26/P? I had one but now wear a 55/P lightweight with a MBU-12/P mask also. Buck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #45 March 16, 2005 Quoteheeheehee....very nice! that's a good lookin HGU-26/P? I had one but now wear a 55/P lightweight with a MBU-12/P mask also. Its a HGU-33 with custom liner, Lighting Bolt custom paint and my name on the back. I be stylin now. Get on down yo bad self, Bitch! SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mt_skydiver 0 #46 March 16, 2005 Just a side note for all we've been talking about here...when doing any kind of experiment, it is important to note that many of these results may show a CORRELATION but not CAUSEATION of events. I think this is evident in many of the discussions as to the various techniques that people have to try and avoid hypoxia at higher elevations. I definately think that this is worth more studying and what we have so far is awesome, but just wanted to point out the facts of scientific experiments. Also, I am not saying any of you are wrong, just wanted to make sure that we are all clear on data and how it is used (especially as we are using it here). Wonderful thoughts and discussions! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Avion 0 #47 March 23, 2005 Thany you very much for posting this Bill. I think, I have noticed a touch of hypoxia on some 13.5 jumps, a distinct feeling, you called it fuzziness, and slight darking of the vision, like you get when holding you beath for a couple of minutes. I then beathed deep and slow and the feeling disappeared and the vision normalized in just a few beaths. I also noticed the symptoms would reappear if I went back to breathing shallow again. BTW this was in a Otter, 15-20mins to altitude. Without your post, I doubt that I would have recognized this for what it was. Thanks again, Brian Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Billy 0 #48 March 23, 2005 Thanks Bill, Couple years ago I was flying over the Rockies in an unpressurized plane at 12K MSL, and my Sa02 was ~84%. Now thats a pA02 in the 60's or so. Like ya'll stated, a few deep breaths would bring them up to mid 90's, normal. Just a few observations... Most folks climbing to altitude are sitting hunched up with a chest strap in place, decreasing your volume with each breath. I hadn't thought much before about loading, but it makes sense that while loading your sucking some exhaust, and like already stated, CO will hang onto your hemoglobin a lot longer than 02. You can have an Sa02 of 100% with a pA02 in the shitter! So don't get fooled. Being excited and breathing faster blows off C02, which is your bodys main respiratory drive. Hyperventilating before swimming underwater may or may not "bank" 02, but it will drive down your C02 and you won't feel the need to take a breath for a while. Breathing too fast on the climb low down will result in a slower rate up high. The excitement of finally getting your onto your load, sitting then on climb to altitude all hunched up, maybe some C0 from exhaust hanging around for 20-30 minutes in your blood, then exerting youself at altitude, I'm surprised more people don't feel funny. Natural Born FlyerZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites robskydiv 0 #49 March 23, 2005 Hi Bill. You mentioned that you would "crouch down." This would cause a restrictive problem preventing you from inhaling to TLC (Total Lung Capacity). Therefore while crouching down you were not taking in enough air (and therefore oxygen). As you discovered through experimentation, a slow, deep breath with an inspiratory sigh is the best way to improve oxygenation. It allows more time or O2 to cross the A/C (Alveolar/Capillary)membrane. This is the prescribed method of oxygen therapy for anyone who is taking a breathing treatment, IPPB, nebulizer, etc... A pulse Oximeter measures the O2 saturation of the capillaries inside the nailbed. An arterial Blood Gas will give you the amount of Partial pressure of O2 and Co2 that is in your blood. Hope this helps. Harry Robinson CRT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wingnut 0 #50 March 28, 2005 bill, do your figures have any corolation into starting out at diffrent elevations or does it even matter say wheni was jumping colorado with a field elevation of 6k msl or utah witha elevation of 4.5k msl does it not mater once a person has aclimated to the higher altitude, when we would go to 12.5k agl in utah wer were right at 17k msl but used no o2 ever, and never felt hypoxic (that i knew of for myself) does the o2 levels decreas at a set rate so that whenyou are "normal" at a set altitude when you go up an equal altitude as some one say 4k lower the numbers would be the same? ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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mjosparky 3 #40 March 15, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteOne day I was breathing 100% O2 for about 4 hours straight at 25,000 feet. Decided to see how long I could hold my breathe. (Now my normal sea level ambient air breathhold is about 1 min 30 sec.) That day, due to supersat, 3 minutes easy... There ya go... Quote Without 100% and using a nasal cannula how long do you think that would be? Sparky Hey Sparky, that would be hard to determine. Individual tolerance really. Most nasal cannulas are not tight fitting enough to prevent air from entering your body along with the 100% O2. New on the market, is a nasal cannula that is tight fitting and provides positive pressure on demand. But, I'm thinking it's not feasible for most DZ operators or necessary on jumps below 18K msl. Did that answer your question? Buck RTF: STS-114 Buck, It was a rhetorical question. At 25,000 you should be using a sealed mask and have done some pre-breathing. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites relyon 0 #41 March 16, 2005 Quote... At 25,000 you should be using a sealed mask and have done some pre-breathing. And even then it doesn't always work out right. An uncle of mine flew a B17 during WWII, mostly from altitudes ranging from 22K to 30K feet. On his 25th mission he was shot down over Poland and he and his crew bailed out from 24K. By his account he passed out then awoke somewhere around 10K. He deployed his seat pack, landed safely, was captured, and spent the last 9 months of the war at Stalag Luft I on the Baltic coast. His co-pilot wasn't so lucky. Uncle Jack says his chute failed. I'm guessing he never woke in time to pull. Mind you, this wasn't an average (or even not so average) skydive. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #42 March 16, 2005 QuoteQuote... At 25,000 you should be using a sealed mask and have done some pre-breathing. And even then it doesn't always work out right. An uncle of mine flew a B17 during WWII, mostly from altitudes ranging from 22K to 30K feet. On his 25th mission he was shot down over Poland and he and his crew bailed out from 24K. By his account he passed out then awoke somewhere around 10K. He deployed his seat pack, landed safely, was captured, and spent the last 9 months of the war at Stalag Luft I on the Baltic coast. His co-pilot wasn't so lucky. Uncle Jack says his chute failed. I'm guessing he never woke in time to pull. Mind you, this wasn't an average (or even not so average) skydive. Bob When I do work at higher altitudes I wear this. Hooked to an O2 console on the way up and Twin 53's (bailout bottles) on the way down. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Reginald 0 #43 March 16, 2005 QuoteWhen I do work at higher altitudes I wear this. Hooked to an O2 console on the way up and Twin 53's (bailout bottles) on the way down. Sparky Now THAT needs to go in the coolest looking type of skydiver thread! "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Beerlight 0 #44 March 16, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote... At 25,000 you should be using a sealed mask and have done some pre-breathing. And even then it doesn't always work out right. An uncle of mine flew a B17 during WWII, mostly from altitudes ranging from 22K to 30K feet. On his 25th mission he was shot down over Poland and he and his crew bailed out from 24K. By his account he passed out then awoke somewhere around 10K. He deployed his seat pack, landed safely, was captured, and spent the last 9 months of the war at Stalag Luft I on the Baltic coast. His co-pilot wasn't so lucky. Uncle Jack says his chute failed. I'm guessing he never woke in time to pull. Mind you, this wasn't an average (or even not so average) skydive. Bob When I do work at higher altitudes I wear this. Hooked to an O2 console on the way up and Twin 53's (bailout bottles) on the way down. Sparky heeheehee....very nice! that's a good lookin HGU-26/P? I had one but now wear a 55/P lightweight with a MBU-12/P mask also. Buck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #45 March 16, 2005 Quoteheeheehee....very nice! that's a good lookin HGU-26/P? I had one but now wear a 55/P lightweight with a MBU-12/P mask also. Its a HGU-33 with custom liner, Lighting Bolt custom paint and my name on the back. I be stylin now. Get on down yo bad self, Bitch! SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mt_skydiver 0 #46 March 16, 2005 Just a side note for all we've been talking about here...when doing any kind of experiment, it is important to note that many of these results may show a CORRELATION but not CAUSEATION of events. I think this is evident in many of the discussions as to the various techniques that people have to try and avoid hypoxia at higher elevations. I definately think that this is worth more studying and what we have so far is awesome, but just wanted to point out the facts of scientific experiments. Also, I am not saying any of you are wrong, just wanted to make sure that we are all clear on data and how it is used (especially as we are using it here). Wonderful thoughts and discussions! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Avion 0 #47 March 23, 2005 Thany you very much for posting this Bill. I think, I have noticed a touch of hypoxia on some 13.5 jumps, a distinct feeling, you called it fuzziness, and slight darking of the vision, like you get when holding you beath for a couple of minutes. I then beathed deep and slow and the feeling disappeared and the vision normalized in just a few beaths. I also noticed the symptoms would reappear if I went back to breathing shallow again. BTW this was in a Otter, 15-20mins to altitude. Without your post, I doubt that I would have recognized this for what it was. Thanks again, Brian Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Billy 0 #48 March 23, 2005 Thanks Bill, Couple years ago I was flying over the Rockies in an unpressurized plane at 12K MSL, and my Sa02 was ~84%. Now thats a pA02 in the 60's or so. Like ya'll stated, a few deep breaths would bring them up to mid 90's, normal. Just a few observations... Most folks climbing to altitude are sitting hunched up with a chest strap in place, decreasing your volume with each breath. I hadn't thought much before about loading, but it makes sense that while loading your sucking some exhaust, and like already stated, CO will hang onto your hemoglobin a lot longer than 02. You can have an Sa02 of 100% with a pA02 in the shitter! So don't get fooled. Being excited and breathing faster blows off C02, which is your bodys main respiratory drive. Hyperventilating before swimming underwater may or may not "bank" 02, but it will drive down your C02 and you won't feel the need to take a breath for a while. Breathing too fast on the climb low down will result in a slower rate up high. The excitement of finally getting your onto your load, sitting then on climb to altitude all hunched up, maybe some C0 from exhaust hanging around for 20-30 minutes in your blood, then exerting youself at altitude, I'm surprised more people don't feel funny. Natural Born FlyerZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites robskydiv 0 #49 March 23, 2005 Hi Bill. You mentioned that you would "crouch down." This would cause a restrictive problem preventing you from inhaling to TLC (Total Lung Capacity). Therefore while crouching down you were not taking in enough air (and therefore oxygen). As you discovered through experimentation, a slow, deep breath with an inspiratory sigh is the best way to improve oxygenation. It allows more time or O2 to cross the A/C (Alveolar/Capillary)membrane. This is the prescribed method of oxygen therapy for anyone who is taking a breathing treatment, IPPB, nebulizer, etc... A pulse Oximeter measures the O2 saturation of the capillaries inside the nailbed. An arterial Blood Gas will give you the amount of Partial pressure of O2 and Co2 that is in your blood. Hope this helps. Harry Robinson CRT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wingnut 0 #50 March 28, 2005 bill, do your figures have any corolation into starting out at diffrent elevations or does it even matter say wheni was jumping colorado with a field elevation of 6k msl or utah witha elevation of 4.5k msl does it not mater once a person has aclimated to the higher altitude, when we would go to 12.5k agl in utah wer were right at 17k msl but used no o2 ever, and never felt hypoxic (that i knew of for myself) does the o2 levels decreas at a set rate so that whenyou are "normal" at a set altitude when you go up an equal altitude as some one say 4k lower the numbers would be the same? ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
relyon 0 #41 March 16, 2005 Quote... At 25,000 you should be using a sealed mask and have done some pre-breathing. And even then it doesn't always work out right. An uncle of mine flew a B17 during WWII, mostly from altitudes ranging from 22K to 30K feet. On his 25th mission he was shot down over Poland and he and his crew bailed out from 24K. By his account he passed out then awoke somewhere around 10K. He deployed his seat pack, landed safely, was captured, and spent the last 9 months of the war at Stalag Luft I on the Baltic coast. His co-pilot wasn't so lucky. Uncle Jack says his chute failed. I'm guessing he never woke in time to pull. Mind you, this wasn't an average (or even not so average) skydive. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #42 March 16, 2005 QuoteQuote... At 25,000 you should be using a sealed mask and have done some pre-breathing. And even then it doesn't always work out right. An uncle of mine flew a B17 during WWII, mostly from altitudes ranging from 22K to 30K feet. On his 25th mission he was shot down over Poland and he and his crew bailed out from 24K. By his account he passed out then awoke somewhere around 10K. He deployed his seat pack, landed safely, was captured, and spent the last 9 months of the war at Stalag Luft I on the Baltic coast. His co-pilot wasn't so lucky. Uncle Jack says his chute failed. I'm guessing he never woke in time to pull. Mind you, this wasn't an average (or even not so average) skydive. Bob When I do work at higher altitudes I wear this. Hooked to an O2 console on the way up and Twin 53's (bailout bottles) on the way down. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #43 March 16, 2005 QuoteWhen I do work at higher altitudes I wear this. Hooked to an O2 console on the way up and Twin 53's (bailout bottles) on the way down. Sparky Now THAT needs to go in the coolest looking type of skydiver thread! "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beerlight 0 #44 March 16, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote... At 25,000 you should be using a sealed mask and have done some pre-breathing. And even then it doesn't always work out right. An uncle of mine flew a B17 during WWII, mostly from altitudes ranging from 22K to 30K feet. On his 25th mission he was shot down over Poland and he and his crew bailed out from 24K. By his account he passed out then awoke somewhere around 10K. He deployed his seat pack, landed safely, was captured, and spent the last 9 months of the war at Stalag Luft I on the Baltic coast. His co-pilot wasn't so lucky. Uncle Jack says his chute failed. I'm guessing he never woke in time to pull. Mind you, this wasn't an average (or even not so average) skydive. Bob When I do work at higher altitudes I wear this. Hooked to an O2 console on the way up and Twin 53's (bailout bottles) on the way down. Sparky heeheehee....very nice! that's a good lookin HGU-26/P? I had one but now wear a 55/P lightweight with a MBU-12/P mask also. Buck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #45 March 16, 2005 Quoteheeheehee....very nice! that's a good lookin HGU-26/P? I had one but now wear a 55/P lightweight with a MBU-12/P mask also. Its a HGU-33 with custom liner, Lighting Bolt custom paint and my name on the back. I be stylin now. Get on down yo bad self, Bitch! SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mt_skydiver 0 #46 March 16, 2005 Just a side note for all we've been talking about here...when doing any kind of experiment, it is important to note that many of these results may show a CORRELATION but not CAUSEATION of events. I think this is evident in many of the discussions as to the various techniques that people have to try and avoid hypoxia at higher elevations. I definately think that this is worth more studying and what we have so far is awesome, but just wanted to point out the facts of scientific experiments. Also, I am not saying any of you are wrong, just wanted to make sure that we are all clear on data and how it is used (especially as we are using it here). Wonderful thoughts and discussions! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Avion 0 #47 March 23, 2005 Thany you very much for posting this Bill. I think, I have noticed a touch of hypoxia on some 13.5 jumps, a distinct feeling, you called it fuzziness, and slight darking of the vision, like you get when holding you beath for a couple of minutes. I then beathed deep and slow and the feeling disappeared and the vision normalized in just a few beaths. I also noticed the symptoms would reappear if I went back to breathing shallow again. BTW this was in a Otter, 15-20mins to altitude. Without your post, I doubt that I would have recognized this for what it was. Thanks again, Brian Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Billy 0 #48 March 23, 2005 Thanks Bill, Couple years ago I was flying over the Rockies in an unpressurized plane at 12K MSL, and my Sa02 was ~84%. Now thats a pA02 in the 60's or so. Like ya'll stated, a few deep breaths would bring them up to mid 90's, normal. Just a few observations... Most folks climbing to altitude are sitting hunched up with a chest strap in place, decreasing your volume with each breath. I hadn't thought much before about loading, but it makes sense that while loading your sucking some exhaust, and like already stated, CO will hang onto your hemoglobin a lot longer than 02. You can have an Sa02 of 100% with a pA02 in the shitter! So don't get fooled. Being excited and breathing faster blows off C02, which is your bodys main respiratory drive. Hyperventilating before swimming underwater may or may not "bank" 02, but it will drive down your C02 and you won't feel the need to take a breath for a while. Breathing too fast on the climb low down will result in a slower rate up high. The excitement of finally getting your onto your load, sitting then on climb to altitude all hunched up, maybe some C0 from exhaust hanging around for 20-30 minutes in your blood, then exerting youself at altitude, I'm surprised more people don't feel funny. Natural Born FlyerZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robskydiv 0 #49 March 23, 2005 Hi Bill. You mentioned that you would "crouch down." This would cause a restrictive problem preventing you from inhaling to TLC (Total Lung Capacity). Therefore while crouching down you were not taking in enough air (and therefore oxygen). As you discovered through experimentation, a slow, deep breath with an inspiratory sigh is the best way to improve oxygenation. It allows more time or O2 to cross the A/C (Alveolar/Capillary)membrane. This is the prescribed method of oxygen therapy for anyone who is taking a breathing treatment, IPPB, nebulizer, etc... A pulse Oximeter measures the O2 saturation of the capillaries inside the nailbed. An arterial Blood Gas will give you the amount of Partial pressure of O2 and Co2 that is in your blood. Hope this helps. Harry Robinson CRT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingnut 0 #50 March 28, 2005 bill, do your figures have any corolation into starting out at diffrent elevations or does it even matter say wheni was jumping colorado with a field elevation of 6k msl or utah witha elevation of 4.5k msl does it not mater once a person has aclimated to the higher altitude, when we would go to 12.5k agl in utah wer were right at 17k msl but used no o2 ever, and never felt hypoxic (that i knew of for myself) does the o2 levels decreas at a set rate so that whenyou are "normal" at a set altitude when you go up an equal altitude as some one say 4k lower the numbers would be the same? ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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