Jumpdude 0
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If a DZO made all of the money that was used to buy their fancy planes and buildings selling children into sex slavery in Asia, would there be anything Morally wrong with jumping at their DZ, and using the assets that were aquired by the selling of these children? What about if they sold Heroin to make the money used to buy the DZ? What about if they scammed unknowing people by lying about where they were located to entice people to purchase nonrefundable services and only letting people know they were lying after getting their credit card number?
It's a matter of degree, but why would you jump at a DZ for example 3 and not example 1 or 2?
Mark Klingelhoefer
I understood that perfectly. It does not matter if a company, whether it be a skydiving company is guilty of any of the three offenses that you listed here, wrong is wrong and there no such thing as two wrongs makes a right.
I don't have any information about whether or not sLyride is involved in offense 1 and/or 2 and therefore, I have never said anything or made any accusations to indicate such, but there's no doubt that sLyride has routinely committed offense 3. And if it has not happened yet at Clarksville, it will only be a matter of time before it starts happening there. Admit it guys, you can't help yourselves. The company's greed runs really deep.
You can't deny that all those people got scammed by your company because all that evidence can't be wrong.
How do you explain the Georgia court order and being on the Tennessee Dept of Consumer Affairs Buyer Beware list? And Why are they transferring their domains to show an ownership in Tennessee and a couple of other states? That looks like they are attempting to hide them from the Georgia Attorney General to keep him from monitoring them.
All that evidence can't be wrong!
jeff, jeff, jeff,
grownups are talking, honey. run along and play in your room. we'll call you when dinner is ready.
well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo
Jumpdude 0
What's wrong Lance?(Pun totally intended!), Can't face the truth?
Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org
jeff,
are you kidding? as a "skyride lackey", i know the truth. 
well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo
Jumpdude 0
OOOHHHHH! I'm sorry, was that another failed effort to hide the truth by trying to deflect it from the conversation?
All that evidence can't be wrong!
Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org
Jumpdude 0
The evidence speaks for itself!
All that evidence can't be wrong!
Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org
QuoteOOOHHHHH! I'm sorry, was that another failed effort to hide the truth by trying to deflect it from the conversation?
"'I think I'll be a clown when I get grown,' said Dill. 'Yes, sir, a clown.... There ain't one thing in this world I can do about folks except laugh, so I'm gonna join the circus and laugh my head off.' 'You got it backwards, Dill,' said Jem. 'Clowns are sad, it's folks that laugh at them.' 'Well, I'm gonna be a new kind of clown. I'm gonna stand in the middle of the ring and laugh at the folks.'"
- Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird
All that evidence can't be wrong!
well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo
QuoteThe evidence speaks for itself!
Al that evidence can't be wrong!
jeff,
i take it you have great faith in the evidence....
well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo
Jumpdude 0
QuoteQuoteThe evidence speaks for itself!
Al that evidence can't be wrong!
jeff,
i take it you have great faith in the evidence....
If it were one unhappy customer, yeah, I would assume it was an unhappy customer, but when a company builds up that much evidence against them, has hundreds of customers who got ripped off, has multiple State Attorney Generals going after them, multiple NEGATIVE news stories ran about them, on state consumer watch lists, Court Orders and Judgements against them, and a multitude of other evidence against them,
Yeah, I would say anyone could have a fair amount of faith in the evidence..
Do you have faith that all that evidence is wrong?
All that evidence can't be wrong..
Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org
But it's ok cause other people have done wrong before them.
Quotewell im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. I found those hypothetical DZ scenarios kind of funny. I dont want to name names but I know that at least two of the biggest DZ's in this country got their start from example number 2. Which is ethically and legally way worse than what skyride does. Skyride is just the most current mass scandal going on in our sport. By no means is it the worst thing ever though. And those DZ's that got thier start with example 2......well look at them now. And nobody cares about thier past. The precedent has been set in this sport that crime does pay. It seems to me that skyride is just a product of its environment and is simply following a already proven plan for success in this sport.
Dont get this confused as a skyride support post because it isnt. They are WRONG. Just be careful of the things you compare them too because you might be talking about your own DZ. There is a old saying I believe everyone has heard. If you live in a glass house.....buy alot of windex!
I think the difference is that skyride hurts US. Skydivers. The fact that there are DZs that were funded way back by drug dealing or whatever just doesn't have an effect on us now. Skyride is a cancer. It's not just that they're immoral and criminal, it's that their "business" affects skydivers. I know a lot of people don't see that... especially those skydivers jumping at skyride's awesome dropzones. But, in my opinion, that's pretty freaking short sighted. Ignoring immoral and criminal behavior is the norm. Ignoring a threat to our sport should not be the norm.
Dave
QuoteQuotewell im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. I found those hypothetical DZ scenarios kind of funny. I dont want to name names but I know that at least two of the biggest DZ's in this country got their start from example number 2. Which is ethically and legally way worse than what skyride does. Skyride is just the most current mass scandal going on in our sport. By no means is it the worst thing ever though. And those DZ's that got thier start with example 2......well look at them now. And nobody cares about thier past. The precedent has been set in this sport that crime does pay. It seems to me that skyride is just a product of its environment and is simply following a already proven plan for success in this sport.
Dont get this confused as a skyride support post because it isnt. They are WRONG. Just be careful of the things you compare them too because you might be talking about your own DZ. There is a old saying I believe everyone has heard. If you live in a glass house.....buy alot of windex!
I think the difference is that skyride hurts US. Skydivers. The fact that there are DZs that were funded way back by drug dealing or whatever just doesn't have an effect on us now. Skyride is a cancer. It's not just that they're immoral and criminal, it's that their "business" affects skydivers. I know a lot of people don't see that... especially those skydivers jumping at skyride's awesome dropzones. But, in my opinion, that's pretty freaking short sighted. Ignoring immoral and criminal behavior is the norm. Ignoring a threat to our sport should not be the norm.
Dave
dave,
did you really mean to say that? drug money, child slavery and other wickedness is cool, as long as it doesn't affect you?
mark, dave is the first to answer your melodramatic moral quandry. he's not bothered.
chris,
dave proves your assertion
"The sad truth is there is a percentage of people,not only in this sport but society in general, that really would not care about any of the things on your list as long as everything works out ok for them."
" Ignoring immoral and criminal behavior is the norm. Ignoring a threat to our sport should not be the norm."
maybe for you buddy, most of us find it a bit pathological.
awesome...
dave, edit quick. or someone will think you are as awful as me...
well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo
Quotedave,
did you really mean to say that? drug money, child slavery and other wickedness is cool, as long as it doesn't affect you?
mark, dave is the first to answer your melodramatic moral quandry. he's not bothered.
chris,
dave proves your assertion
"The sad truth is there is a percentage of people,not only in this sport but society in general, that really would not care about any of the things on your list as long as everything works out ok for them."
awesome...
dave, edit quick. or someone will think you are as awful as me...
I'm rereading what I wrote and I'm not sure what you're getting at.
I'm not saying I don't care about criminal behavior. I hope the skyride guys go to prison. I'm just saying that many skydivers, maybe most skydivers, are willing to ignore lots and lots of bad behavior when it doesn't affect them personally. I can see why you don't give a crap that the owner of your DZ is a piece of shit (he's not on here, so that's ok to say, right?). Lots of people wouldn't give a crap if their DZO funded his dropzone by doing lots of horrible things.
But I don't think you see that skyride is bad for skydivers. You SHOULD care, even though skyride is nice enough to let you jump out of their planes. Some of us get very annoyed at those of you that support skyride dropzones because we see how they hurt us.
Dave
wmw999 2,136
I think what Dave is saying is that bad acts that are ended are better than bad acts that are still going on.
When I was in England, I saw the Elgin marbles. They were stolen from Greece, but I don't really think that looking at them makes me a bad person. Geek, maybe, but not a bad person.
But if I were to buy antiquities myself, well, that's a different story.
Skyride is currently engaging in dubious business practices. The owners of some dz's have engaged in dubious legal, business, and personal practices in the past. That's the difference.
Wendy W.
When I was in England, I saw the Elgin marbles. They were stolen from Greece, but I don't really think that looking at them makes me a bad person. Geek, maybe, but not a bad person.
But if I were to buy antiquities myself, well, that's a different story.
Skyride is currently engaging in dubious business practices. The owners of some dz's have engaged in dubious legal, business, and personal practices in the past. That's the difference.
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
QuoteQuotedave,
did you really mean to say that? drug money, child slavery and other wickedness is cool, as long as it doesn't affect you?
mark, dave is the first to answer your melodramatic moral quandry. he's not bothered.
chris,
dave proves your assertion
"The sad truth is there is a percentage of people,not only in this sport but society in general, that really would not care about any of the things on your list as long as everything works out ok for them."
awesome...
dave, edit quick. or someone will think you are as awful as me...
I'm rereading what I wrote and I'm not sure what you're getting at.
I'm not saying I don't care about criminal behavior. I hope the skyride guys go to prison. I'm just saying that many skydivers, maybe most skydivers, are willing to ignore lots and lots of bad behavior when it doesn't affect them personally. I can see why you don't give a crap that the owner of your DZ is a piece of shit (he's not on here, so that's ok to say, right?). Lots of people wouldn't give a crap if their DZO funded his dropzone by doing lots of horrible things.
But I don't think you see that skyride is bad for skydivers. You SHOULD care, even though skyride is nice enough to let you jump out of their planes. Some of us get very annoyed at those of you that support skyride dropzones because we see how they hurt us.
Dave
"I'm not saying I don't care about criminal behavior."
-that's exactly what you said...
" I'm just saying that many skydivers, maybe most skydivers, are willing to ignore lots and lots of bad behavior when it doesn't affect them personally."
-like most humans in general...
"But I don't think you see that skyride is bad for skydivers. "
-please elaborate. how skyride has affected YOU personally would be a great start.
well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo
QuoteI think what Dave is saying is that bad acts that are ended are better than bad acts that are still going on.
When I was in England, I saw the Elgin marbles. They were stolen from Greece, but I don't really think that looking at them makes me a bad person. Geek, maybe, but not a bad person.
But if I were to buy antiquities myself, well, that's a different story.
Skyride is currently engaging in dubious business practices. The owners of some dz's have engaged in dubious legal, business, and personal practices in the past. That's the difference.
Wendy W.
thanks wendy,
but no, what dave is saying is that criminal acts that occured in the past, that promoted skydiving, are of no concern.
well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo
QuoteI think what Dave is saying is that bad acts that are ended are better than bad acts that are still going on.
When I was in England, I saw the Elgin marbles. They were stolen from Greece, but I don't really think that looking at them makes me a bad person. Geek, maybe, but not a bad person.
But if I were to buy antiquities myself, well, that's a different story.
Skyride is currently engaging in dubious business practices. The owners of some dz's have engaged in dubious legal, business, and personal practices in the past. That's the difference.
Wendy W.
did you pay to see the elgin marbles? who benefited?
did others have to travel too far to see them? did others pay more than you to see them?
do you believe that a crime unpunished is less immoral than one brought to the light of day?
well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo
for the benefit of anyone unfamiliar with the topic of this thread
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin_Marbles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin_Marbles
well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo
ok class,
extra credit time!
i'll buy anyone a lift ticket at their home dz if they can tell me what my point is...
the answer "defending skyride" will get you after school detention!
extra credit time!
i'll buy anyone a lift ticket at their home dz if they can tell me what my point is...
the answer "defending skyride" will get you after school detention!
well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo
lame...
well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo
QuoteI think what Dave is saying is that bad acts that are ended are better than bad acts that are still going on.
Of course they are but the only reason they are better is that they have ended.
When I was in England, I saw the Elgin marbles. They were stolen from Greece, but I don't really think that looking at them makes me a bad person. Geek, maybe, but not a bad person.
Wendy there is nothing geeky about it. A quest for knowledge is very admirable.
But if I were to buy antiquities myself, well, that's a different story.
How exactly is it a different story? There is no admision charge so you didnt pay money to see stolen artifacts per se. However they are just that, stolen artifacts. I'm sure the Hellenic Ministry of Culture might have a different view.....just sayin.
Skyride is currently engaging in dubious business practices. The owners of some dz's have engaged in dubious legal, business, and personal practices in the past. That's the difference.
Wendy W.
The argument of current and past practices is a moot point when people lambast Skyride yet have no problem with using equipment and aircraft that could only have been paid for with dirty money. Just because it is the past doesnt make it anymore wrong than things that may or may not be happening in the present.
I understood that perfectly. It does not matter if a company, whether it be a skydiving company or, let's say a car dealership, is guilty of any of the three offenses that you listed here, wrong is wrong and there no such thing as two wrongs makes a right.
I don't have any information about whether or not sLyride is involved in offense 1 and/or 2 and therefore, I have never said anything or made any accusations to indicate such, but there's no doubt that sLyride has routinely committed offense 3. And if it has not happened yet at Clarksville, it will only be a matter of time before it starts happening there. Admit it guys, you can't help yourselves. The company's greed runs really deep.
You can't deny that all those people got scammed by your company because all that evidence can't be wrong.
How do you explain the Georgia court order and being on the Tennessee Dept of Consumer Affairs Buyer Beware list? And Why are they transferring their domains to show an ownership in Tennessee and a couple of other states? That looks like they are attempting to hide them from the Georgia Attorney General to keep him from monitoring them.
All that evidence can't be wrong!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org
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