Drop Zones who accept Skyride Gift Certificates II

[Rstanley0312 0]

Quote

Nice! now you just made a group of people at that DZ think that skyride ripped off someone in the area. You misrepresented yourself and skyride. Thats called fraud.

Not exactly "fraud"

http://definitions.uslegal.com/f/fraud/

Also, they rip off ppl in our area all of the time! Why do you think the DZ employee went in to length to educate the caller about them?

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[Jumpdude 0]

Quote

Nice! now you just made a group of people at that DZ think that skyride ripped off someone in the area. You misrepresented yourself and skyride. Thats called fraud.

So how is exposing the truth about a fraudulent company considered fraud? Oh wait! I forgot, the whole world is wrong and sLyride is right??? Is that what you meant to say? Go play with your bumper stickers!

Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

if every dz accepts skyride doesn't this problem go away????

No. A scam is still a scam.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[BillyVance 34]

Dude, don't you and your buddies have some bumper stickers to remove around the area?

You people have hardly done a damn thing but skirt the issue.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Greene 0]

We guarantee you that we have NEVER dealt with or accepted Skyride certificates.

We have always been a strong force against them!!!

You have been been very misinformed!

Skies blue
Skydive Greene County
Xenia, Ohio

[davelepka 4]

Quote

Do you want to know why what you proposed will not work(rhetorical)? Like many things in this world, at the end of the day it's all about the mighty dollar

I agree. That's why you have to take Skyride's cut into account. Let's say it is 20%, and the DZ gets $160 for a $200 tandem. A group of four tandems will bring in $640. Subtract $140 to pay four TIs, $40 for four pack jobs, and your left with $460 to pay for two loads in a 182 plus the pilot.

Now drop Skyride, and make it three $200 tandems, for which the DZ will collect $600. Subtract $105 for three TIs, $30 for three pack jobs and you're left with $465 to to pay for two loads in a 182 plus pilot. You reduced the number of tandems by 25%, and still made $5 more than doing four tandems for Skyride.

If you happen to have two fun jumpers around, you can put them on the second load, and collect another $35.

I know it's about the money. That's what I'm saying, but the money I'm looking at is the cash the DZO gives away to Skyride. Once you're in bed with them, it's easy to say that they funnel you business, so you just stay with them, but sooner or later it has to end. Do the DZOs intend to have Skyride taking a cut of their profits for the rest of their natural lives?

At first it may have sounded like a good idea, but now, years later we know for sure that these guys are crooks, so now it has to end. The best way to make it sop without leaving anyone in the lurch is to make it stop all at once. It puts everyone back on a level playing field, and keeping 100% of their profits for themselves.

DZO's can make more money doing less work by dealing directly with all of the prospective skydivers in their geographical area.

[davelepka 4]

Aerohio does not accept Skyride gift certificates.

[Driver1 0]

Quote

Quote

Do you want to know why what you proposed will not work(rhetorical)? Like many things in this world, at the end of the day it's all about the mighty dollar

I agree. That's why you have to take Skyride's cut into account. Let's say it is 20%, and the DZ gets $160 for a $200 tandem. A group of four tandems will bring in $640. Subtract $140 to pay four TIs, $40 for four pack jobs, and your left with $460 to pay for two loads in a 182 plus the pilot.

Now drop Skyride, and make it three $200 tandems, for which the DZ will collect $600. Subtract $105 for three TIs, $30 for three pack jobs and you're left with $465 to to pay for two loads in a 182 plus pilot. You reduced the number of tandems by 25%, and still made $5 more than doing four tandems for Skyride.

If you happen to have two fun jumpers around, you can put them on the second load, and collect another $35.

I know it's about the money. That's what I'm saying, but the money I'm looking at is the cash the DZO gives away to Skyride. Once you're in bed with them, it's easy to say that they funnel you business, so you just stay with them, but sooner or later it has to end. Do the DZOs intend to have Skyride taking a cut of their profits for the rest of their natural lives?

At first it may have sounded like a good idea, but now, years later we know for sure that these guys are crooks, so now it has to end. The best way to make it sop without leaving anyone in the lurch is to make it stop all at once. It puts everyone back on a level playing field, and keeping 100% of their profits for themselves.

DZO's can make more money doing less work by dealing directly with all of the prospective skydivers in their geographical area.

Jim Moore down at Skydive Ky used to be in this program, now he claims he is not? Word has it he got stiffed.

There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

[Southern_Man 0]

Can any of the lawyers on the board answer my question about whether it is legal for DZ's to all agree together not to accept Skyride?

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[matthewcline 0]

DZO's can choose not too, as is their right, no need for a lawyer to tell you that.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Rstanley0312 0]

Quote

We guarantee you that we have NEVER dealt with or accepted Skyride certificates.

We have always been a strong force against them!!!

You have been been very misinformed!

Skies blue
Skydive Greene County
Xenia, Ohio

Jim or Lee... kudos to you then! I had a buddy or rather an aquantence of another friend that went through skyride last yr and I could of sworn he said GC is where he jumped. As I said if I'm wrong then I am I never siad it was 100% fact. My bad and I'm glad you are aginst them.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Can any of the lawyers on the board answer my question about whether it is legal for DZ's to all agree together not to accept Skyride?

I wish I could give you a simple answer, but I personally can't. Maybe another attorney can. Antitrust law is pretty complex, with more fact-specific permutations and shades of grey than one can imagine. Unless a lawyer specialized in antitrust law sufficiently to gauge this question off the top of his head (and I don't), the average attorney who is not a specialist would have to do some fact-specific research. Beyond that, I'm not sure I'd discuss it on here in greater detail, since presumably the Skyride folks and their allies are reading this thread.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Quote

Can any of the lawyers on the board answer my question about whether it is legal for DZ's to all agree together not to accept Skyride?

Maybe Cary can sue everyone. Or maybe he can go fuck himself.

[Thanatos340 1]

Laymans opinion here:

Skyride is basically stealing a portion of their business using deceptive and fraudulent websites and then selling that business back to them (Taking a cut in the process).

An argument could possibly be made that skyride does not actually compete with the dropzones (Unless they have a physical DZ in the area) so DZO`s agreeing not to accept Gift certificates that they did not authorize in the first place for their own product (A Skydive) that was sold by a third party (Skyride) just seems like good business sense to me.

The only reason this works at all is the threat that Skyride would just sell this Business to the DZ down the street if they dont accept it.

Honestly I think if someone had a lot of Time and money... they could go after Skyride under RICO.

Sounds a lot like fraud and extortion. Be hard as hell to prove but a good enough lawyer might be able to pull it off.

[billvon 2,400]

>An argument could possibly be made that skyride does not actually
>compete with the dropzones . . .

Doesn't matter. Early antitrust suits were against railroads that refused to carry certain manufacturer's freight, or charged more for it than for an ally's freight. The railroad wasn't competing with the manufacturer - they were just working (solely or in concert with others) to damage another company's business. The exact wording of the act passed to prevent this was "every contract, combination in the form of trust or otherwise, or conspiracy, in restraint of trade or commerce among the several states, or with foreign nations, is hereby declared illegal."

It would seem like an alliance to damage a third party's business would fall under such rules; might not be such a good idea to give Skyride Inc a way to collect half a million from your DZ in damages.

[BillyVance 34]

Quote

Quote

***

Jim Moore down at Skydive Ky used to be in this program, now he claims he is not? Word has it he got stiffed.

I would not be surprised. He would not be the only one who got stiffed. Plenty of others have been screwed by Skyride.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

Quote

Do you want to know why what you proposed will not work(rhetorical)? Like many things in this world, at the end of the day it's all about the mighty dollar

I agree. That's why you have to take Skyride's cut into account. Let's say it is 20%, and the DZ gets $160 for a $200 tandem. A group of four tandems will bring in $640. Subtract $140 to pay four TIs, $40 for four pack jobs, and your left with $460 to pay for two loads in a 182 plus the pilot.

Now drop Skyride, and make it three $200 tandems, for which the DZ will collect $600. Subtract $105 for three TIs, $30 for three pack jobs and you're left with $465 to to pay for two loads in a 182 plus pilot. You reduced the number of tandems by 25%, and still made $5 more than doing four tandems for Skyride.

If you happen to have two fun jumpers around, you can put them on the second load, and collect another $35.

I know it's about the money. That's what I'm saying, but the money I'm looking at is the cash the DZO gives away to Skyride. Once you're in bed with them, it's easy to say that they funnel you business, so you just stay with them, but sooner or later it has to end. Do the DZOs intend to have Skyride taking a cut of their profits for the rest of their natural lives?

At first it may have sounded like a good idea, but now, years later we know for sure that these guys are crooks, so now it has to end. The best way to make it sop without leaving anyone in the lurch is to make it stop all at once. It puts everyone back on a level playing field, and keeping 100% of their profits for themselves.

DZO's can make more money doing less work by dealing directly with all of the prospective skydivers in their geographical area.

Dave, you're preaching to the choir. Those DZ's that accept SRGCs and the DZOs were presented with the facts back then.....they know the deal...they know the results of the court case yet they still accept SRGCs. What does that tell you/everyone what is important to them as a business? They don't care what you or I think or what they are doing to the sport just as long as they are making that dollar. They know how typically apathetic skydivers generally are about matters that don't directly affect them from jumping out of an airplane on the weekend.

The only way you can influence a person or business that is driven by making money is to affect their cash influx. I don't know how to explain this in any other way that doesn't make me sound like I'm the one being a dick. You cannot force someone to grow a conscious or develop moral and ethical standards by presenting them with logical facts.The Dzs that still accept SRGCs know the score and the affect that SR has on this sport and they have said it in person at PIA and by still accepting SRGCs, they continue to say "fuck you" collectively to the rest of us in the sport who care about it. At the end of the day, they know that all the bitching on the internet and even in person, maybe 1% of the people complaining will actually DO something like not jumping at their DZ anymore. I say forget trying to unite DZs to stop taking SRGCs , I say form a group or small regional groups of people across the nation that refuse to jump at DZs that accept SRGCs and only jump at DZs and boogies or out of aircraft providers that don't support SR. Until we as skydivers all stand together in a united front and stop spending our money at these DZs, they will continue to accept SRGCs. Unfortunately, getting a bunch of people to stand together in such a manner, especially skydivers, has a snow balls chance in hell. But I'd like to be proven wrong in this thinking one day.....one can only hope but I am not holding my breath. As such, we can only hope that the legal proceedings against SR have a sever enough effect that they cease to operate and cast such a negative light on our and other sports.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[Jumpdude 0]

Quote

Laymans opinion here:

Skyride is basically stealing a portion of their business using deceptive and fraudulent websites and then selling that business back to them (Taking a cut in the process).

An argument could possibly be made that skyride does not actually compete with the dropzones (Unless they have a physical DZ in the area) so DZO`s agreeing not to accept Gift certificates that they did not authorize in the first place for their own product (A Skydive) that was sold by a third party (Skyride) just seems like good business sense to me.

The only reason this works at all is the threat that Skyride would just sell this Business to the DZ down the street if they dont accept it.

Honestly I think if someone had a lot of Time and money... they could go after Skyride under RICO.

Sounds a lot like fraud and extortion. Be hard as hell to prove but a good enough lawyer might be able to pull it off.

Here's an example of this, We all know the fraud through the websites, I'm not sure whether to call this one extortion or blackmale;

About a month ago, while updating the DZ's page, I called a DZ in a state west of the Mississippi River, Actually at the Mississippi, told the person who answered that I live in the nearest city, and I was given this GC from this company called "1 800 Skyride" and asked if I could use it to jump at his place, He said, "Yeah, We'll help you out" I said, "So you accept these GC's?" He said "Yeah", but in a tone that I could tell he really didn't like it. I asked him why he takes them, He replied, "It's either I take them, or people are going to get stuck going to Atlanta" I said, "Well, are you aware of what kind of scam they are?" He said, (In the same tone) "Yeah, it's either I take them or people get screwed". I asked if he does not get enough business from his website to support his business, he said "They have flooded the internet and I cannot compete with them". Then I told him that he is only contributing to the problem and he agreed, but was afraid to cancel their business out of fear that he will not be able to bring in his own business.
After that point in the conversation, I didn't know whether to feel sorry for the guy or say piss on him. It's easy to say piss on those DZO's in that situation, but who do we blame, the giant who came in and did that to the little guy, or the little guy who caved in and let them break him down like that?

IMO, The little guy who says, "I Can't Compete with them" probably won't be able to because he has convinced himself that he can't.

Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org

[BillyVance 34]

Quote

Quote

Here's an example of this, We all know the fraud through the websites, I'm not sure whether to call this one extortion or blackmail;

About a month ago, while updating the DZ's page, I called a DZ in a state west of the Mississippi River, Actually at the Mississippi, told the person who answered that I live in the nearest city, and I was given this GC from this company called "1 800 Skyride" and asked if I could use it to jump at his place, He said, "Yeah, We'll help you out" I said, "So you accept these GC's?" He said "Yeah", but in a tone that I could tell he really didn't like it. I asked him why he takes them, He replied, "It's either I take them, or people are going to get stuck going to Atlanta" I said, "Well, are you aware of what kind of scam they are?" He said, (In the same tone) "Yeah, it's either I take them or people get screwed". I asked if he does not get enough business from his website to support his business, he said "They have flooded the internet and I cannot compete with them". Then I told him that he is only contributing to the problem and he agreed, but was afraid to cancel their business out of fear that he will not be able to bring in his own business.
After that point in the conversation, I didn't know whether to feel sorry for the guy or say piss on him. It's easy to say piss on those DZO's in that situation, but who do we blame, the giant who came in and did that to the little guy, or the little guy who caved in and let them break him down like that?

IMO, The little guy who says, "I Can't Compete with them" probably won't be able to because he has convinced himself that he can't.

That is exactly what Skyride wanted to do.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[skydived19006 4]

Anyone remember what happened to music sharing when a few folks were hit with law suits? I'm interested in seeing how the SDAZ v SR thing washes out. If it were me suing SR, I'd go ahead and throw in area DZOs who accept the certificates, it's pretty much free to add names. Once a handful of DZOs have to hire lawyers, just watch the rest run like rats from a sinking ship.

As you note Lou, these DZOs will not be convinced with logic, but hit em in the wallet, or make the threat very real and shit will happen.

Martin

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[BillyVance 34]

Remember guys, if you see a DZ listed on there as "unconfirmed", it means we have not heard from them. If you jump there, find out. It will help us fill it out accurately.

Thanks

ETA: There have been about 22 responses from DZs that DON'T accept the certificates, and ZERO responses from those that DO accept. Interesting, isn't it?

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[JohnDeere 0]

Quote

Remember guys, if you see a DZ listed on there as "unconfirmed", it means we have not heard from them. If you jump there, find out. It will help us fill it out accurately.

Thanks

ETA: There have been about 22 responses from DZs that DON'T accept the certificates, and ZERO responses from those that DO accept. Interesting, isn't it?

Wonder why.....

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[Jumpdude 0]

Let's get some of those DZ's in Florida to contact us. The only one so far that we have any communication with is Z-Hills. That's one in 17.

Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org

[alabamaskydiver 0]

Quote

Let's get some of those DZ's in Florida to contact us. The only one so far that we have any communication with is Z-Hills. That's one in 17.

That's no surprise! There's no way they can say they don't know about the scam they are helping to perpetrate.
I just wonder what they will say when the Feds come knocking on their door and take the DZO and possibly the staff to prison?

A few posts ago in this thread, You talked about the conversation you had with the DZO west of the Mississippi, I know of at least three other DZO's around the country who's in the same situation, All I can say to those DZO's is this,
GROW SOME FUCKING BALLS, MAN UP AND STOP HELPING CARY BEFORE YOU FIND YOURSELVES IN PRISON WITH HIM!

If I understand correctly, The Attorneys in Arizona are exploring bringing in the DZO's who do business with Skyride in as accomplices.

[BillyVance 34]

Quote

Quote

If I understand correctly, The Attorneys in Arizona are exploring bringing in the DZO's who do business with Skyride in as accomplices.

Whoa!

ETA: There might be problems with this... Not all the DZOs who accept the certificates WANT to take them, but feel compelled to take them otherwise the bigger DZ down the road will take them. I'm no lawyer so I don't know how this will go down.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban