Where to get A-Certified Cheaply

[guppykf 0]

A couple comments:
1. Skydive Chicago's program is highly advanced. They teach all the necessary things for an A license plus many additional skills for FS. So you get more bang for your buck. I only did a portion of my training there, but was highly impressed with their teaching methodology. Great location nearby hotels, resteurants, airport, etc. great staff! Resteurant and camping onsite and caravan aircrafts $2599 est.

2. West Tennessee Skydiving near Memphis is another great program. They have a program that once you are released to solo status your coach jumps are free/ included, so this is a decent savings!! $2200 est. total. This is a little secluded, but great people and a kick ass fast super king air!

3. If the DZ close to you is available then you might want to find out from other jumpers how their training program is. Learning from the home DZ is nice for social aspects and also helps if you have been trained locally that once you are licensed and still have some weak skills some instructors are willing to help their previous students throwing in a free coach jump or two. It's always nice to toss them a beer or few if they do that. Plus they know you and you know them may make it easier for the social aspect. And also if you are local and you get a bad weather patch you aren't away from your home, which saves money.

Know that there is a triangle of expectation to anything in life; you can have cheap, good or fast. Most often you can't get all three. You can have cheap and good, but not fast. you can have good and fast, but not necessarily cheap or you can have cheap and fast, but wont necessarily be good.

Training needs to be taken seriously..this is your life and I dont know anyone who thinks their life is worth less than a couple grand. The better question is where can I go to get the most bang for my buck? What training facilities do other skydivers feel were stellar? YOu will get a variety of answers, because there are so many good instructors out there.

Good luck! Have fun!! Be safe!!

THRIVING IN MY DASH!!

[guppykf 0]

+1

THRIVING IN MY DASH!!

[guppykf 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8Ptr6Mddk8&feature=related

here is the result of the road trip...priceless!!

THRIVING IN MY DASH!!

[CygnusX-1 42]

I just can't wait for 5 years (or so) from now. All these newbees asking where the cheapest rates can be found. In 5 years, I'll assume that they all have gotten their A-D licenses, their coaches rating, and their AFFI rating. Then they all will go to their local DZO and tell him that they are willing to work for FREE such that the new newbees can have the cheapest AFF course in the country.

I just can't wait......

[popsjumper 2]

All you guys equating training cost to quality are waaaaaaaaay off base.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Fast 0]

I am with Dave on this. I have posted in other threads on here like this where the person is "shopping" around the country looking for a cheap place to run out to and get an A license. In 99% of cases, it's not worth it.

The bottom line is that, you want to have an idea who the people are at your home dz. You want a relationship with the staff at your dz who are going to be the ones helping you decide what gear isn't a ripoff. You want to be around and figure out what rigger to use. You want to get to know people so that when it comes time to get on a load they have some faith in who you are and what you can do. You want to have some friends to hang out with after jumping, be it someone you took class and learned with or the instructors and other jumpers at the dz.

I mean, I understand not wanting to throw money away, but in most cases the little bit extra you would spend (once you factor in all your costs) to just stay at home and learn from someone close by, is worth it 10 times over.

Skydiving isn't cheap, but again, if you get to know the locals, you might find more ways to pay for jumping, working for the dz, etc etc etc...

In the long run, unless you have a ton of money to be traveling all the time (which if you are looking to do something as cheap as possible, you don't) the people you are going to skydive with are the ones at the dropzones closer to where you live. Part of me even thinks that spending the money on your dz close to home benefits you even more because, you're supporting the locals who wouldn't exist without student business.

See, this stuff has huge trickle down effects.

Fwiw, my dropzone will finance a student to get his A license, but that fact isn't plastered all over our website because we don't really want people showing up from all over the country looking for that deal. It's a way of helping out people who are going to be jumping with us hopefully for years to come.

Blue ones..

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[davelepka 4]

I think one of the problems is that the 'students' may have a misunderstanding about the nature of the AFF course, or any other learning progression.

There are alot of 'classes' or 'courses' that people take these days that are really just a 'show up and pass' type of scenario. For example, when I got divorced, the court mandated that I take a co-parenting class, to learn to work with my ex.

The 'class' consisted of two hours in a hotel meeting room with 40 or 50 'students'. They played a video, and some woman spoke for about 20 min, then you got your court paper signed, and I was a certified 'co-parent'. There was nothing to 'pass' no test, and no real learning took place. I spent most of my time hitting on other, newly divorced, parents.

These newbies may think that's what it's all about, "Do this, don't do this, give me your money, now you're a skydiver". If that was the case, I would want the cheapest course as well. I don't think they realize the mountain of inforamtion they will recieve, and the immense personal challenge of jumping out of a plane and learning at the same time.

I'm willing to give them the benefit of their ignorance in this case. Too many things in this world are 'show up and pass', and it's easy to get used to that. Even doing a few tandems doesn't mean you know the deal. If you happen to pull a tired or half-assed TI each time, you might only know to arch, and not grab anything.

[Fast 0]

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I think one of the problems is that the 'students' may have a misunderstanding about the nature of the AFF course, or any other learning progression.

There are alot of 'classes' or 'courses' that people take these days that are really just a 'show up and pass' type of scenario. For example, when I got divorced, the court mandated that I take a co-parenting class, to learn to work with my ex.

The 'class' consisted of two hours in a hotel meeting room with 40 or 50 'students'. They played a video, and some woman spoke for about 20 min, then you got your court paper signed, and I was a certified 'co-parent'. There was nothing to 'pass' no test, and no real learning took place. I spent most of my time hitting on other, newly divorced, parents.

These newbies may think that's what it's all about, "Do this, don't do this, give me your money, now you're a skydiver". If that was the case, I would want the cheapest course as well. I don't think they realize the mountain of inforamtion they will recieve, and the immense personal challenge of jumping out of a plane and learning at the same time.

I'm willing to give them the benefit of their ignorance in this case. Too many things in this world are 'show up and pass', and it's easy to get used to that. Even doing a few tandems doesn't mean you know the deal. If you happen to pull a tired or half-assed TI each time, you might only know to arch, and not grab anything.

I think this is a good point and totally agree.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[StangMan90 0]

"OK, I was just wanting you to know that the USPA Group Membership program does not assure anything, and that not being a Group Member does not mean a DZ is less safe."
______________________________________________

Thanks to a few PMs I've exchanged since this thread started, I understand that now. Good point.

Sort of like: "Outlaw motorcycle club membership does not assure anything, and not being an outlaw motorcycle club member does not mean a rider is less bad-assed."

Yeah, that works for me. Thanks.

Joe

simplify

[skybill 19]

Hi kgb,
"Cheap A-Course??" Hahahahahah!! No such animal. Money is a trivial concern if you really want to Skydive. Your life will change! You will either be a Skydiver or a Tourist.

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[Bodhisattva420 0]

You could theoreticaly get your 'A' for $1302 at Skydive WesTex if you can get everything signed off in 25 jumps. They are only open on weekends though, so you'd probably need to make three trips to Texas to get in 25 jumps.

[ridestrong 1]

Quote

All you guys equating training cost to quality are waaaaaaaaay off base.

I would like to agree... My hopes at lease, would be that a low cost dz can have just as qualified and passionate AFF-I's as one that is twice as expensive. Good people and quality training should be able to be found at even some of the smallest dz's around.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[Hausse 0]

Check out Skydive Wissota in Wisconsin. It's definitely one of the best places in the US to learn to skydive on a budget (or otherwise).

Here's what I did: Used to live in Toledo, OH. Came on the forums about 3 years ago and was in the exact situation you were in. I simply didn't have the money to pay for an expensive AFF Class and then jumps in Michigan. Lynn from Skydive Wissota told me that I could get my A-License for $750 but I'd have to drive 12h to get to the DZ. Well I did just that 3 weekends in a row and I had my license.

To the people talking about bad quality of instruction:

My S/L instructor had over 5k jumps, the DZO with whom I jumped at least 10 times of my first 25 jumps had over 13k and the DZM (did about 15 jumps with her) had over 15k jumps. Absolutely fantastic and they did it all because they loved doing it, they even payed for their own jumps.

I just checked and looking at the website the total price (including gear for all 25 Jumps) at the moment would be about $850. Best price you will be able to find at one of the coolest DZ's I've ever been to with some of the best people.

The downside is they are only opened on Weekends and I think 1 day during the week in Summer. If you are really serious about it and can go up there for 2 weeks (3 Weekends and 2 weekdays) and get lucky with the weather, you definitely have a decent chance to get your license and having an awesome time!

PS: Stay away from the couches in the student room.

[labrys 0]

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I would like to agree... My hopes at lease, would be that a low cost dz can have just as qualified and passionate AFF-I's as one that is twice as expensive.

It's not the quality of the training that I've seen questioned so much as the quality of the overall experience. Sure a small, low cost DZ can provide excellent instruction, but if you're traveling really far to get there and missing out on building solid relationships with the up jumpers at a local DZ who will be there to jump with you after you get that license, the savings might be a wash.

As much as many jumpers are happy to throw together a small group and include the new guy, they're a lot more likely to be open to the guy who was trained locally and is a known quantity vs. some unknown guy who shows up after shopping for a cheaper place to learn.

Those first 100 post license jumps can make a really good novice or a really bad soloist depending on who they continue to learn from.

If you have a great, low cost DZ nearby you're golden.

Owned by Remi #?

[skyjumpenfool 2]

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Check out Skydive Wissota in Wisconsin.

What's really cool at this DZ is the way they manifest. You put your name on the list. The next 4 people on the list get in the plane. Everyone jumps with everyone and they're always more than happy about it. Hell, they'll even jump with me??

And, as stated above, on every other load, you're jumping with someone that has 14-15 thousand skydives or is a current or former National Champion. At the end of the day, Bob fires up the Party Bus and you take a tour of the local pubs.

Hausse... I gotta agree with you on this one. It's one of my favorite places and the price is right.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

Hi kgb,
"Cheap A-Course??" Hahahahahah!! No such animal. Money is a trivial concern if you really want to Skydive. Your life will change! You will either be a Skydiver or a Tourist.

+1 Bill,

My money is on Turist. He talks like he is planning a week at the beach instead of spending a week learning how not to die. If saving a few bucks it that big an issue open a savings account and join a book club.

Sparky

Air Trash Old Farts at Taft May 29, you going to make it?

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[timmyfitz 0]

Quote

I just can't wait for 5 years (or so) from now. All these newbees asking where the cheapest rates can be found. In 5 years, I'll assume that they all have gotten their A-D licenses, their coaches rating, and their AFFI rating. Then they all will go to their local DZO and tell him that they are willing to work for FREE such that the new newbees can have the cheapest AFF course in the country.

I just can't wait......

What a load of crap.

[thrillstalker 0]

Quote

All you guys equating training cost to quality are waaaaaaaaay off base.

+1 some dzo's actually want to help CREATE skydivers so they do the best they can at making it as affordable as possible.

"Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be."

[Harmless 0]

Quote

Quote

All you guys equating training cost to quality are waaaaaaaaay off base.

+1 some dzo's actually want to help CREATE skydivers so they do the best they can at making it as affordable as possible.

Also some parts of the country just have lower cost of living and therefore cheaper operating costs...

"Damn you Gravity, you win again"

[davelepka 4]

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All you guys equating training cost to quality are waaaaaaaaay off base

I don't think anyone is saying that. Some have said that the sport is expensive, and that if you cannot afford the A licesne programs local to you, you may not be able to afford continued participation.

In terms of quality of training, I even stated that you could assume that any DZ will offer the same level of training, as they are all doing it in the name of completing the same proficiency card. Of course, you will run into differences from instructor to instructor, and DZ to DZ, but none of these are 'selling points', they're differences that are unique to each student and their expereinces.

My argument is not against low-cost training, it's the trade-offs you make if you have to travel to seek such training, and then having to complete the course within your planned travel dates. When you combine the costs of travel, and the pressure that the time frame creates on your training, I don't think there is sufficient savings to make it a worthwhile proposition.

If the bottom line, after expenses savings is $300, $400 or even $500, that same jumper could eliminate the risk of weather making the trip a complete or partial waste, and the pressure of the return travel dates by trianing at a local DZ. If the jumper is able to raise the $2600 to travel and complete an A course abroad, but not able to raise the $3000 it would cost to train locally, the local DZ offers the opportunity to pay as you go. The guy has $2600 to start with, and then has the duration of the training to raise the last $400 to finish the deal.

I think we can all agree that going from no jumps to A license in a week is an ambitious goal, mayeb too ambitious. Currency is king in this sport, but especially for students, it has a point of diminishing returns. Each student will be able to handle a different number of jumps per day, and even then that number will differ based on personal and environmental factors. A successful jump may pave the way for a productive day of 2 or 3 additional jumps, while a 'problem' jump might create a situation where even a repeat on the same day will be counter-produvtive.

[Hausse 0]

Here was my approximate calculation:

Cost of learning at the local DZ: close to 3k

Cost of learning at a DZ 12h away: $750
Cost of travel: (700miles * 6)/30mpg * $3 = $420
Total cost: $1170

At the time I considered $1830 a very significant amount of money as I was in college and that was about 150% of my monthly income.

So yes, I completely agree with your calculation and that it doesn't make sense driving 12h each way to save $300 but had I not taken the drive I would simply not have had the money to start.

I'd do it exactly the same way again had I to do it with my current knowledge. I'd also prefer S/L over AFF simply for the much lower cost.

[kgp4death 0]

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Here was my approximate calculation:

Cost of learning at the local DZ: close to 3k

Cost of learning at a DZ 12h away: $750
Cost of travel: (700miles * 6)/30mpg * $3 = $420
Total cost: $1170

that is probably the cheapest possible.....lots of options that is for sure. Now that i have an idea about the cheapest i can price out and make an informed decision.

[davelepka 4]

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Cost of learning at the local DZ: close to 3k

Cost of learning at a DZ 12h away: $750
Cost of travel: (700miles * 6)/30mpg * $3 = $420
Total cost: $1170

That's great, but not relevant to this discussion. For starters, you're talking about a static line progression, and this thread has been about AFF. The $3k cost of an A license at your local DZ wasn't via a staic line progression, was it?

If you're starting figure was closer to that of an average cost to complete a static line progression, your savings would be cut in half.

Also, in your example, you made three seperate trips to complete the training, and if that's a possibility, it removes two of the key problems with training abroad; the pressure from only having a week to finish the course, and the possibility that the weather could make the entire trip a total loss.

All of the possibilities the OP was considering were not close enough to allow him the luxury of making multiple trips, or making a last minute go/no go decision based on the weekend forecast.

In your circumstance, there certainly was a savings to be had by driving to the other DZ, but your circumstance is much different that that of the OP.

As an asdie, if you use the IRS figure of allowing .50 per mile deduction for automobile use, you come up with a travel cost of $2100 for fuel and wear and tear on your vehicle. Subtract the actual cost of fuel, and you're left with $1680 worth of wear and tear for the 4200 miles you put on your car. We all know the IRS rate is a little high, and maybe you drive an older car that is already depreciated, but even if you cut that in half, you're still looking at $840 worth of tires, oil, filter, and maintenence it 'cost' you to make the trips.

If you had compared apples to apples, your savings over a local static line program would have been closer to $900, and if you factor in the vehicle use, you really only come out $60 ahead, but who's really counting anyway, right?

[timmyfitz 0]

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That's great, but not relevant to this discussion. For starters, you're talking about a static line progression, and this thread has been about AFF.

The OP never ask about AFF or static line. Just where to do it cheaply. So no, this thread isn't about AFF.

[Hausse 0]

The Title of the Thread is: "Where to get A-Certified Cheaply" and I told him where to do just that. It doesn't make any difference if S/L or AFF and from the quality coaching I got at Wissota I'd say I actually was a better jumper with my A then most people at bigger DZ's that mostly do Solos to get their license.
On top of that, how many DZ's still even have an S/L program? Nearly all of them seem to only do AFF anymore because it makes much more money.

Calculating $0.50 per mile makes no sense at all. The OP is wondering where to get the cheapest license possible so chances are he's driving a car that isn't the most valuable either. I was driving and 89' Accord at the time, it got 30 miles per Gallon so it's not even close to the $0.50 even if you include tires and Oil changes: ($180/40'000 miles*4200miles = $18.9 + $30 Oil Change = $48.9 expenses other then fuel)