Reasons for an AAD other than yourself.

[billeisele 122]

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Its funny - I have the same concepts but in a different manner. I own like 8 rigs and can't afford $10,000 in AADs and just don't have any.

I absolutely think AADs are good things and recommend them to students. But I think canopy discipline is far more important in keeping them alive.

Agree with both items. It would be nice if the AAD manufacturers developed a product where each rig could have a cutter installed and simply swap out the brain box between rigs. The rig manufacturers could build a "pocket" to hold the box.

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[Squeak 17]

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I got married and my wife said
Rule #1 I had to have one.

Bought a second rig and the wife said see rule number 1

I like your wife

I sold my first rig (with AAD) to a lower time jumper and my new rig did not have an AAD (trying to save some money),
My friend borrowed his wifes rig and got knocked out, her rig has an AAD, he is alive.
My wife apologised for ragging me about spending too much money, I had an AAD fitted that week.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[cocheese 0]

I think most jumpers know somebody that has had an AAD fire.

I saw 2 live in about 5 years. I know of a few others at my dz as well. Experienced jumpers. So glad they had them.

[tjm 0]

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I think most jumpers know somebody that has had an AAD fire.

I saw 2 live in about 5 years. I know of a few others at my dz as well. Experienced jumpers. So glad they had them.

Your right, I've seen two fire myself. One in the plane on the way to altitude, and one at 1200' after the jumper deployed at 3000' plus.

If you're not living on the edge; you're taking up too much room!

[firstime 0]

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Its funny - I have the same concepts but in a different manner. I own like 8 rigs and can't afford $10,000 in AADs and just don't have any. I could put one in one rig or something, but I jump all of them on a busy day..

But I do always try to be a good example when it comes to canopy flying. Many (heck maybe most) AFF instructors give all these talks about flying patterns and 90 turns and stuff, and their students see them go up and pull off a 720 hook to swoop the pond. It gives the impression that landing patterns are for rookies.

I'd rather have one of my students emulate me and not have an AAD but never start swooping, than have an AAD and start swooping. (A hundred jumps down the road.) Swooping is way more likely to hurt or kill them...

I absolutely think AADs are good things and recommend them to students. But I think canopy discipline is far more important in keeping them alive.

[firstime 0]

Great answer Wendy, the voice of reason

[wildcard451 0]

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But I do always try to be a good example when it comes to canopy flying. Many (heck maybe most) AFF instructors give all these talks about flying patterns and 90 turns and stuff, and their students see them go up and pull off a 720 hook to swoop the pond. It gives the impression that landing patterns are for rookies.

I'd rather have one of my students emulate me and not have an AAD but never start swooping, than have an AAD and start swooping. (A hundred jumps down the road.) Swooping is way more likely to hurt or kill them...
... But I think canopy discipline is far more important in keeping them alive.

Wendy, I know I am not an authority in the matter by any means, but if you look at the actual swoopers out there when compared to the guys just "swooping" at the DZ, you will find that they are the most disciplined canopy pilots out there, and they put quite a bit of time and energy into planning a pattern prior to each jump for a proper setup.
However, I do understand the idea behind your post. I just feel that you are giving HP guys a bad rap, when a proper pattern is essential to being where you wanna be, when you wanna be there, to get your ideal swoop.

[skypuppy 1]

Because you don't want folks whispering at your funeral,

"Dumbass died and left an extra $1,100 for his wife. He should have bought an AAD."


My wife could use the eleven hundred bucks.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[skypuppy 1]

You could kill someone else on the ground.
_________________________________________________


As far as I'm aware, no one has ever killed anyone by actually bouncing on them.

There have, however, been SEVERAL incidents where people (spectators) have been killed by people during uncontrolled canopy descents or swoops.

I could be wrong about no one ever bouncing on someone, but I doubt it.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[skypuppy 1]

I think most jumpers know somebody that has had an AAD fire.

I saw 2 live in about 5 years. I know of a few others at my dz as well. Experienced jumpers. So glad they had them.
_________________________________________________
In 30+ years I have never seen an experienced jumper saved by an aad, or know an experienced jumper saved by one. I have however seen several two-out situations caused by aads that could have or did result in injuries.

AADs should be a choice.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[cocheese 0]

After reading all the replies in both AAD threads, I've concluded that some people shouldn't use an AAD as it's really fucking up the natural selection process.

[half-a-greek 0]

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Not dying keeps the whuffos from making inane comments on news websites.

I KNOW!!!! I have to walk away from my computer, those things get me so effing pissed! The biggest thing that gets me most is not there lack of education, (or common sense), but the utter disregard for the death of a human being. It disgusts me. I'm getting frustrated just thinking about it.

[Squeak 17]

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After reading all the replies in both AAD threads, I've concluded that some people shouldn't use an AAD as it's really fucking up the natural selection process.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[jurgencamps 0]

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You could kill someone else on the ground.
_________________________________________________


As far as I'm aware, no one has ever killed anyone by actually bouncing on them.

There have, however, been SEVERAL incidents where people (spectators) have been killed by people during uncontrolled canopy descents or swoops.

I could be wrong about no one ever bouncing on someone, but I doubt it.

Germany more than a few years ago (8, 10, 15 years ?). Demojump went wrong, no pull due to misrigging a flag around the legstrap (and briddle). Skydiver "plunges" into a full soccerstadion and killes 2 or 3 spectators.

[mik 2]

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I think most jumpers know somebody that has had an AAD fire.

I saw 2 live in about 5 years. I know of a few others at my dz as well. Experienced jumpers. So glad they had them.
_________________________________________________
In 30+ years I have never seen an experienced jumper saved by an aad, or know an experienced jumper saved by one. I have however seen several two-out situations caused by aads that could have or did result in injuries.

AADs should be a choice.

I agree they should be a choice but your 30+ years of experience is very different to mine. Last year I saw an AAD save on an A or B licence jumper. And I know people on a 4 way (plus camera) that went very low and 3/4 had aad fires (either last year or the year before).

I have seen only one 2 out (student in Mexico), which did result in injuries.

Just saying..

***********************************************
I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

[sebcat 0]

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After reading all the replies in both AAD threads, I've concluded that some people shouldn't use an AAD as it's really fucking up the natural selection process.

I saw a T-shirt like that. The front said "AADs - Taking Darwin out of the equation", the back said "Hook turns - Putting Darwin back in the equation". So I guess it all works out in the end. T-shirts have never lied to me before.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

Yeah... its sick and twisted... but I know of at least 1 lawsuit (not sure if it is (or did) get any traction) because the deceased jumper had an AAD that allegedly fired too low... where as, if they hadn't had an AAD and it had been a full on bounce, possibly, there wouldn't have been a lawsuit.

Sign of our times.

Either way, I'll keep my AAD.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

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You could kill someone else on the ground.
_________________________________________________


As far as I'm aware, no one has ever killed anyone by actually bouncing on them.

There have, however, been SEVERAL incidents where people (spectators) have been killed by people during uncontrolled canopy descents or swoops.

I could be wrong about no one ever bouncing on someone, but I doubt it.

Hmmmm... wasn't really a bounce... but wasn't there an incident years back where a jumper in freefall took the horizontal off the tail of a light civil aircraft overflying the DZ during jump ops and the jumper lived (with injuries) and the folks in the airplane died (airplane went out of control and crashed)?

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi Zig,

If I were making & selling an AAD in today's world ( and I am not ) I would not call it an Automatic Activation Device. I would call it a Loop Cutter and I would give a very large range in which it 'might' fire.

Some day we will not be able to buy a 16 oz hammer that works because of all of the warning stickers on it.

JerryBaumchen

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

I agree Jerry. I just hope we all can live a very long and happy and peaceful life before this world totally goes to shit because of folks that think nothing ever bad should happen to them and "somebody else" owes them lots of money if it does irregardless of the circumstances.

[diablopilot 2]

RSL's have larger chance of saving a life than an AAD. They are only about $25. Why so much focus on the AAD?

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

[sarcasm]
Oh DB!! But haven't you heard!!! You may need to get stable after you cut-away and before launching your reserve and an RSL will prevent that and could cause you to DIE... blah... blah... blah...
[/sarcasm]

*rolls eyes*