Laws about skydiving away from dropzones.

[jamester28 0]

What are the laws regarding jumps made away from designated USPA dropzones? I live in Mount Pleasant, SC and am interested in jumping over Isle of Palms. Would there be any legal ramifications? I know people who have sport aircraft (powered parachutes and fixed wing stuff) and I would just be doing a hop n pop from 4500.

[theonlyski 3]

This is explained in great detail on this site if you just did a search for it.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[Heatmiser 0]

Search result for bandit jumps:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=859086;search_string=bandit%20jumps;#859086

What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo

Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama

[TrophyHusband 0]

there isn't any law about jumping at uspa dropzones. my guess is that you are not a skydiver or you are very inexperienced. there is a dz in walterboro, about 50 miles from where you want to jump. go there and learn to skydive, and then ask the jump pilot how to file a NOTAM. its not that hard to do what you want to do legally, assuming the classification of the airspace allows it. doing it safely is a whole nother story.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[wolfriverjoe 1,495]

They call them "Bandit Jumps". Look at the search link someone else posted for a lot more info.
'
Short version:

The pilot has to file a NOTAM and be in contact with ATC, it has to be done in appropriate classed airspace (pilot will know) and you have to have permission from the landowner.

It has to be over a "not congested" area, and it can't be in front of a crowd.

If you are doing it into a publicly owned area (public beach or park or something) you probably can't get permission.

Google Earth shows it as a pretty built up area (and a lot of swamp).

I hate to be a downer, but this seems to be one of those "If you have to ask, then you probably shouldn't be doing it".

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[EDYDO 0]

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What are the laws regarding jumps made away from designated USPA dropzones? I live in Mount Pleasant, SC and am interested in jumping over Isle of Palms. Would there be any legal ramifications? I know people who have sport aircraft (powered parachutes and fixed wing stuff) and I would just be doing a hop n pop from 4500.

It is not legal under any circumstances (other than a TRUE emergency) to jump from an aircraft classed as an ultralight. Two place ultralights are certified by the FAA for instructional purposes. I have been over this with the FSDO inspectors many times and I always lose. Probably because they are right. Now a standard certificated plane......search this site for details and have at it.

Ed

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[pilotdave 0]

Light Sport is not the same an an ultralight. I don't know why it wouldn't be legal to jump from a legal 2-place light sport plane.

And it's not a bandit jump if you follow the rules. It's a demo jump.

Dave

[wolfriverjoe 1,495]

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Light Sport is not the same an an ultralight. I don't know why it wouldn't be legal to jump from a legal 2-place light sport plane.

And it's not a bandit jump if you follow the rules. It's a demo jump.

Dave

I don't know what (if any) light sport planes can be operated with the door or canopy opened. And I don't think any are on the "list" of planes approved to be operated with the door removed.

I know you can get out of some light planes (172, 182 ect.) with normal opening doors, but it isn't easy.

And I'm going to disagree with the second part of that.

If I jump into my own backyard (with proper NOTAMS and permissions), it's a bandit jump. Legal, but not a demo.

I consider a demo to be in front of a crowd, and needing all the FAA approvals that come with it.

And after some of the crap that went on around here last summer, apparently our new FAA guy considers anything more than one person a "crowd", requiring all the "Demo" approvals.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[EDYDO 0]

He mentioned a powered parachute and I believe that is classed as an ultralight under Part 103.

Ed

[pilotdave 0]

There's no official list of planes approved for flight with the door removed. That information goes into the flight manual or POH. USPA put a list in the SIM, but it's far from complete. Many LSAs have open cockpits... no doors need to be removed. I know of one that is approved for flight with the doors open or removed... and I'm hoping to get to jump it sometime.

I'm not sure what you mean when you talk about FAA demo approvals. Here in CT, paperwork needs to be filed with the state for all off-dropzone jumps. They're all considered demos, regardless of who is watching.

Bandit jumps are the alternative... just doing it without following the rules. You're not much of a bandit if you do it legally.

Dave

[pilotdave 0]

Some 2-seat powered parachutes have been upgraded to LSA status. They require a sport pilot license and are not flown under part 103.

Dave

[wolfriverjoe 1,495]

Yes, there's a list of aircraft approved for operation with the door removed. It's in FAA AC 105-2c Page 17.

Again, I don't know if there are any Light Sports that are approved (either by the manufacturer and noted in the POH or by the FAA in AC105) If you say there are, I believe you.

They also list what kind of jumps require approval (forms 7711-2 to apply and 7711-1 that approves) and what you don't need approval for. (It's item 15 on page 10 that covers demo jumps).

There are some "Off DZ" jumps that don't require a 7711. I've always heard those jumps (Legal with proper permissions and NOTAMs) called "Bandit Jumps".

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[skypuppy 1]

by definition, if it's a 'bandit' jump, it ain't legal...

Maybe they call them bandit jumps because they coulda done the paperwork if they wanted?

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[popsjumper 2]

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.. You're not much of a bandit if you do it legally

Maybe he's thinking of a certain type of bandit...like
Zorro, the Gay Blade or the Hamburglar.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Nutz 0]

Hamburglar - yeah, swoop into McDonald's, steal the cheeseburgers - and then what. It is not like I could run away.

"Don't! Get! Eliminated!"

[DBCOOPER 5]

Quote

They call them "Bandit Jumps". Look at the search link someone else posted for a lot more info.
'
Short version:

The pilot has to file a NOTAM and be in contact with ATC, it has to be done in appropriate classed airspace (pilot will know) and you have to have permission from the landowner.

It has to be over a "not congested" area, and it can't be in front of a crowd.

If you are doing it into a publicly owned area (public beach or park or something) you probably can't get permission.

reply]
There is no regulatory requirement to file a notam.
There is no definition of a congested area in the FARs.
Feds don't care until something goes wrong, then you better have your ducks in a row.
While they call FAA 7711-2 a wavier they don't wavier anything...
Chief Pilot
Bandit Air LLC

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

• Quote

[timmyfitz 0]

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I've always heard those jumps (Legal with proper permissions and NOTAMs) called "Bandit Jumps".

You are such a bandit, following the rules and all that stuff. You rule following bandit.

(If it's legal, it's not a bandit jump)

[airtwardo 7]

Law of Gravity?

I'd try to avoid breaking that one!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Floflo 0]

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Law of Gravity?

I'd try to avoid breaking that one!

Do you?
I'd love to break it, to fly for more than 50 seconds...

[kallend 1,923]

Quote

Quote

Law of Gravity?

I'd try to avoid breaking that one!

Do you?
I'd love to break it, to fly for more than 50 seconds...

Get a wingsuit and fly for 3 - 4 minutes.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

Quote

Law of Gravity?

I'd try to avoid breaking that one!

Do you?
I'd love to break it, to fly for more than 50 seconds...

Oh yeah?


..go fly UP for 'more than 50 seconds' !

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[skydived19006 4]

It's a good idea to enter a NOTM, but not required as I understand. Who's to say that jumping onto my friends farm out in the country isn't because his place is a DZ for a day? What's the FAR requirement for a "drop zone?" We've done exactly that, set up a drop zone on a farm property (conveniently this farm had a nice grass runway) for a day and did a bunch of tandems, even had a lots of spectators! If we weren't doing the jumps on a "DZ" it would have been a bunch of bandit (by USPA BSRs) tandem demos all day long!

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[DiverMike 5]

It is a little more complicated than that to make your friends farm a DZ for the day. It is covered in part 105:


Sec. 105.15

Part 105 PARACHUTE OPERATIONS
Subpart B--Operating Rules

Sec. 105.15

Information required and notice of cancellation or postponement of a parachute operation.


(a) Each person requesting an authorization under §§105.21(b) and 105.25(a)(2) of this part and each person submitting a notification under §105.25(a)(3) of this part must provide the following information (on an individual or group basis):
(1) The date and time the parachute operation will begin.
(2) The radius of the drop zone around the target expressed in nautical miles.
(3) The location of the center of the drop zone in relation to--
(i) The nearest VOR facility in terms of the VOR radial on which it is located and its distance in nautical miles from the VOR facility when that facility is 30 nautical miles or less from the drop zone target; or
(ii) the nearest airport, town, or city depicted on the appropriate Coast and Geodetic Survey World Aeronautical Chart or Sectional Aeronautical Chart, when the nearest VOR facility is more than 30 nautical miles from the drop zone target.
(4) Each altitude above mean sea level at which the aircraft will be operated when parachutists or objects exist the aircraft.
(5) The duration of the intended parachute operation.
(6) The name, address, and telephone number of the person who requests the authorization or gives notice of the parachute operation.
(7) The registration number of the aircraft to be used.
(8) The name of the air traffic control facility with jurisdiction of the airspace at the first intended exit altitude to be used for the parachute operation.
(b) Each holder of a certificate of authorization issued under §§105.21(b) and 105.25(b) of this part must present that certificate for inspection upon the request of the Administrator or any Federal, State, or local official.
(c) Each person requesting an authorization under §§105.21(b) and 105.25(a)(2) of this part and each person submitting a notice under §105.25(a)(3) of this part must promptly notify the air traffic control facility having jurisdiction over the affected airspace if the proposed or scheduled parachute operation is canceled or postponed.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[Speed2000 0]

Hmmm, from my reading of regs, the above listed information is only required if the parachute operations are to be conducted into Control Zones (105.19) or Positive control Areas/terminal Control Areas (105.21).

The paragraph you omitted is:

FAR Section 105.25 prescribes that applicants for an authorization under FAR Section 105.19 or FAR Section 105.21 and those submitting a notice
under FAR Section 105.23 are to include the following information in that application or notice.

For a friend's farm with a grass strip (presuming it doesn't have a tower ), it appears 105.23 would govern, to wit:

No person may conduct a parachute operation, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow a parachute operation to be conducted from that aircraft, over or onto any airport unless-

...

(b) For airports without an operating control tower, prior approval has been obtained from the management of the airport to conduct parachute operations over or on that airport.

Edited to add:

AC105-2C expands on this with:

20. Jumps in or into other airspace

FAR Section 105.23 prescribes the advance notification requirements for parachute jumps in controlled and uncontrolled airspace other than those previously covered in paragraphs 15 through 19. The ATC facility or FSS nearest to the proposed jump site should be notified at least 1 hour before the jump is to be made, but not more than 24 hours before the jump is to be completed.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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The ATC facility or FSS nearest to the proposed jump site should be notified at least 1 hour before the jump is to be made, but not more than 24 hours before the jump is to be completed.

Vskydiver and I have jumped into our backyard (it's an acre) a couple of times. Our house is under Class E airspace. All we did was file a notam.