420lb male skydiving. Possible? Yes, but how?

[d_squared431 0]

There is a long lengthy pre screening process before a patient can under go the surgery. This can take up to a year if not longer. Psychological evaluation and being cleared by his primary doctor can be quiet stressful.
The lap band is a great alternative, however if the guy doesn't want to diet he won't be able to hand the liquid diet he will be put on for 4-6 weeks to shrink his stomach prior to this procedure and then afterwards.

TPM Sister#130ONTIG#1
I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH
You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly

[Zlew 0]

I know a guy who had it done a few years ago. The weight came off very quickly, and a year later he lost around 200lbs. Fast Fwd. 2 more years and he's obese again. He was probably around 400, and got down to 175 or so (looked like a different person). Now I would guess he's back around 300.

You still have to do your part...it's not a silver bullet and you can put weight back on.

[billvon 2,400]

>I guess he could actually use a tandem drogue to stay stable and slow
>down a little.

Strong made a student system that worked like that about 20 years ago. It didn't catch on. They also used to make a 520 sq ft 11 cell tandem main that might work, but even then you'd be pushing the upper weight limit for the entire tandem system.

[dennispcoltrane 0]

video of 450 pound AFF student

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

1
dpc

[NovaTTT 1]

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video of 450 pound AFF student

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

BEEEEOOOOOTTTCCCCHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[tdog 0]

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After that I will have more knowledge as to the required capability of the gear (ie deployment speed).

Assuming you are not a troll...

It is not the gear, it's the landings that are your risk. I am sure I could find a way to teach you to freefall. I just don't think I could sleep at night after you got hurt landing a parachute. I have done nearly 1000 instructor jumps, enough to have had some students get hurt on landings, I have had a few people I have taught go to the hospital (heck I even carried a friend out of a canyon after a BASE landing injury), and enough to see trends of the type of people more prone to injury. I would not risk jumping with you at this point because I could not sleep at night after you got hurt knowing it would be my fault for accepting a student who had a medical condition that could be "fixed" prior to the jump. Conditions that can't be "fixed", such as old age, I am much more willing to risk when the student can recite to me the fact they understand the risk and can express why the reward is worth accepting the risk. To me it is like this. If a student came to me with epilepsy, I would take them if the doctor said they were the most stable they could be with modern medicine. If they were untreated and did not mitigate the risk of seizure, I would say "sorry, come back as soon as you can, go see the doc, fix the problem."

So, instead of testing yourself in a windtunnel for freefall skills, you need to test your landing skills.
Can you jump off of a refrigerator, on wheels being pushed at 5 MPH, 10 times in a row, onto concrete or very uneven ground, possibly covered with rocks, and immediately run 10 steps? You don't have to be the world's greatest athlete to land a parachute safely, but you have to be athletic.

P.S. I am not a unsympathetic asshat. I was overweight for the first half of my life and I understand what it was like to lose weight and what it felt like prior to losing weight when I could not do things my friends could do. If you need help, I am available via phone or email, and I will give you the support you need to have a peer who "forces" you to exercise every day and holds you accountable to your own goals.

Good luck!

[nigel99 143]

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After that I will have more knowledge as to the required capability of the gear (ie deployment speed).

Assuming you are not a troll...

It is not the gear, it's the landings that are your risk. I am sure I could find a way to teach you to freefall. I just don't think I could sleep at night after you got hurt landing a parachute. I have done nearly 1000 instructor jumps, enough to have had some students get hurt on landings, I have had a few people I have taught go to the hospital (heck I even carried a friend out of a canyon after a BASE landing injury), and enough to see trends of the type of people more prone to injury. I would not risk jumping with you at this point because I could not sleep at night after you got hurt knowing it would be my fault for accepting a student who had a medical condition that could be "fixed" prior to the jump. Conditions that can't be "fixed", such as old age, I am much more willing to risk when the student can recite to me the fact they understand the risk and can express why the reward is worth accepting the risk. To me it is like this. If a student came to me with epilepsy, I would take them if the doctor said they were the most stable they could be with modern medicine. If they were untreated and did not mitigate the risk of seizure, I would say "sorry, come back as soon as you can, go see the doc, fix the problem."

So, instead of testing yourself in a windtunnel for freefall skills, you need to test your landing skills.
Can you jump off of a refrigerator, on wheels being pushed at 5 MPH, 10 times in a row, onto concrete or very uneven ground, possibly covered with rocks, and immediately run 10 steps? You don't have to be the world's greatest athlete to land a parachute safely, but you have to be athletic.

P.S. I am not a unsympathetic asshat. I was overweight for the first half of my life and I understand what it was like to lose weight and what it felt like prior to losing weight when I could not do things my friends could do. If you need help, I am available via phone or email, and I will give you the support you need to have a peer who "forces" you to exercise every day and holds you accountable to your own goals.

Good luck!

Yes but if he started off with a cross-braced canopy the more powerful flare will mean that he is guaranteed soft landings - maybe a velocity 120 (so he doesn't start off to small)

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[FlyingFrank 0]

I have just made one tandem jump in my life, and am currently looking to do more when my finances get in order. However, I weigh 180ish right now, and I used to weigh 260. Let me tell you, forget skydiving for a moment. Losing weight just for the sake of losing weight will be the greatest life decision you will ever make. You can do it, anyone can. It might take a while, and it might be hard, but take it from someone who used to be considered obese, you will open so many doors and be able to do so much more with your life when you do.

As for skydiving, it was one of the greatest things I've ever done, and you are just going to have to take my word for it, but the feeling you get when you pull and sit in the chute is definitely worth all of the sweat that it took to get down to 180. One thing that I did that helped a lot was that I bought this book called "The Abs Diet". It is a GREAT read, and I e-PROMISE you that it will work, if you apply it. Best of luck to you, and hopefully you don't get discouraged by what people say here about your weight. I know it sucks to hear people say you can't do something because of your weight, but use that as fuel to lose it.

Some people spend their whole lives afraid to die that they never truly live.

[brettski74 0]

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I called Paraclete XP SkyVenture in Raeford, NC because as far as I could find, they're are one of the largest most powerful in north America.

They are the most powerful, but they have to be because they are the biggest. The wider the column of air, the more power you need to get it moving at the same speeds. That said, they are capable of very high wind speeds, but there are several problems with this.

Even at the highest wind speed, there is the possibility that you may be too heavy to get off the net.

If you can get off the net at such high wind speeds, you're now a belly flyer with almost zero control flying in a system with a very large amount of energy. Walls are hard and they can hurt, injure or even kill you if the wind slams you into them hard enough

The instructor inside the tunnel is responsible for you safety in the tunnel. I'm not a tunnel instructor, but you may want to see the instructor and talk to him face to face before laying out the cash. They may be unwilling to accept the risk of putting you in that situation, or putting their body on the line to try to stop your 400+ pound bullk getting injured.

I don't know how big you are, but the door to get into the flight chamber is necessarily narrow to minimize disruption of the airflow in the vicinity of the door. A reasonably large but athletic person could easily fit through the door, but I have seen morbidly obese people who I'm sure would have trouble physically passing through into the flight chamber because of their size. I'm imaging that if you're over 400 pounds, you may fit into that category, too.

I guess you're already talking to instructors at Paraclete, but perhaps some things for you to consider when you're talking to them.

I'm not sure of your reasons for not wanting to lose the weight, but like so many here, I think you're really trying to do this by the hardest way possible. No matter how hard you think it's going to be to lose the weight, I'm quite certain that it will be far easier and cheaper to lose the weight first and then proceed along a more "normal" route.

[skydiver604 0]

I normally do not post but rather read and learn, I am making an exception in this thread, My first tandem was in 06, I weighed about 270 pounds, my FJC was was also in 2006, at 270 pounds I was on student gear, main canopy was a Man of War 320, at 270 lbs plus gear moving around in the 182 was difficult, I did 12 static line jumps, buggered the dynamic exit on every jump, pounded in on landing on every jump, sustained the following injuries, broken tailbone 2x, twisted knee, twisted ankle, smashed in face on step of 182 buggering the exit. After the 12 jumps season ended, over the course of the winter ballooned up to 325 pounds, at that point the DZO grounded me, told me to fuck off, no more jumping and that I would end up as a fatality statistic I i did not lose weight. This was in July of 2008. Started jumping in April 2009 at 210 pounds, much easier to move around in the 182, did 4 TRCP's then onto freefall, solo certified in June 2009 after doing a total of 5 tandem skydives and 33 student jumps.

At 420 pounds you will not be able to skydive SAFELY, you will at some point pound in and bust yourself up, maybe kill yourself or someone else, guaranteed you will end up with broken bones, titanium pins and a lengthy stay in the hospital and rehab. you need to lose weight and get down to 250 pounds to skydive safely and not only for skydiving for your own health benefit.

It can be done, losing 200 pounds off a 420 pound frame is not impossible, there is plenty of advice in this thread on how to do it, I have struggled with my weight for the last 35 years and struggle every day to keep the weight off, I'm 43 years old and have never felt better since losing 105 pounds. My high blood pressure is no longer a problem, high cholestrol is down to healthy levels, my type 2 diabetes is gone and I don't have the mental health issues I used to have. Until you get to 250 pounds don't even bother thinking about skydiving.

Sorry if I'm being an ass but this is the honest truth, If you want to skydive then hire a personal trainer, a dietician and hit the gym. My question to you is "how bad do you want it??"

"The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it." - Michelangelo

[Radioahole 0]

Big Mike, Dunno if it'd help your situtaion, but I have a Military Surplus canopy. I have a thread in the "Gear and Rigging" forum. Check it out. Maybe it would work for you.

[riggerrob 558]

Hi dude.
Will you take advice from a 195 pound, 6 foot tall tandem instructor?

I have done one tandem jump with a 270 pound student. The guy was a retired rugby player, with thighs like tree trunks. I did not worry about hurting him.
After proving my machismo with the big guy, I cut back to a more sensible, and logical 230 pound limit for students, because any time you hang more than 400 pounds of human flesh under a SET 400 tandem canopy, it just becomes HARD WORK. Margins for error become tiny and the risk of injury increases sharply!

My primary motivation - for keeping my weight under 200 pounds is that my father, grandfather and great grand-father were all overweight and all suffered from diabetes.

Strong Enterprises quit building 520 square foot tandem canopies a decade ago, but you still might be able to buy a military-pattern 500 square foot tandem main from Performance Designs or Jump Shack or Icarus.

The bottom line is that students need canopies loaded at around 0.7 pounds per square foot, which means more than 500 square feet for you, a size that is only still fashionable with military special forces soldiers who like to jump with 500 bundles.

[brettski74 0]

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Big Mike, Dunno if it'd help your situtaion, but I have a Military Surplus canopy. I have a thread in the "Gear and Rigging" forum. Check it out. Maybe it would work for you.

Based on the discussion in that thread, it's believed to be a 370 square foot canopy. With a 420 pound jumper and about 30 pounds of gear, that would put you at over 1.2 wing loading. That's very aggressive for a student. Enough people have already commented on the tendency of heavier student to injure ankles, knees, arms, etc from hard landings under appropriate wing loadings, so I even that canopy may not be large enough.

[livendive 8]

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Another factor that I was thinking about on this is the pure size of the harness needing to be created. The typical waist is around 34-38 inches with a main lift web of 16-22 inches. For the size body for this rig you are looking at needing a 65 inch waist and at least 28+ inch main left webs. Once you start to get that far outside the norm you get to introduce all sorts of new issues like length of the reserve ripcord needing to be customized and additional geometry issues on the rig. Really small girls have major issues with rig geometry, I image it will be the same at the larger ends also.

As you well know from tandems, his geometry on the ground will be vastly different than his geometry under canopy. We don't call the short fat tandem students "flowers" for nothing....all that weight bearing down on small bits of highly squishy substance causes them to "flow" out the holes in the harness. I think it's unlikely you could design a rig for this guy that had something resembling a chest strap for opening that wasn't a face strap shortly thereafter.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[nigel99 143]

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Another factor that I was thinking about on this is the pure size of the harness needing to be created. The typical waist is around 34-38 inches with a main lift web of 16-22 inches. For the size body for this rig you are looking at needing a 65 inch waist and at least 28+ inch main left webs. Once you start to get that far outside the norm you get to introduce all sorts of new issues like length of the reserve ripcord needing to be customized and additional geometry issues on the rig. Really small girls have major issues with rig geometry, I image it will be the same at the larger ends also.

As you well know from tandems, his geometry on the ground will be vastly different than his geometry under canopy. We don't call the short fat tandem students "flowers" for nothing....all that weight bearing down on small bits of highly squishy substance causes them to "flow" out the holes in the harness. I think it's unlikely you could design a rig for this guy that had something resembling a chest strap for opening that wasn't a face strap shortly thereafter.

Blues,
Dave

You know I was thinking about this thread last night and picturing what a huge person would look like in freefall (having seen naked boobs I imagine that on a grand scale!). So picture mini-flying saucer. Next thought in sequence if said person grabbed and stretched their skin they could have a custom wing-suit. So now when Sans Suit starts a naked wing-suiting club he can credit the idea to this thread.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[gimpboogie 0]

Hi ThOneBigMike,

Well not necessarily the 'wrong' thread-as you say, 'obeisty' in some circumstances IS a disability (http://genetic predisposition towards it, like some other 'situations' people find themselves in, such as heart disease, diabetes, or MS and many more).

So lets go with the fact that you have a disability, as it is what you state http://(and who are we to disagree with you, on wether your condition is a disability or not).


Now to the two other statements that are important in your first posting.
1) you have a lot of determination/will power when it comes to things you want to get done.
2) you are physically fit for your size of a person.

to address those, i will honestly take the 'devils advocate' position, so you can see the whole picture and not just from your position/perspective as we all tend to do, especially when we are new to a situation/activity as we do not know what is necessarity involved in that activity.

FIRST of all, as has been mentioned, there are 'rules' the tandem masters (instructors) follow, and these are two fold.
a) set out by the skydiving governing body they belong to -wether that is USPA, CSPA etc. AND FAI, FAA http://(yes we are also bound by aviation industry rules, so FAA or ministry of transport in canada are involved and have rules for us also to follow)

SECOND, the rules support the restrictions of weight on gear as well as jumper's weight (with weight restrictions on the gear-as mentioned sport gear-what you would be using once youve acquired solo status and are out of 'student' gear-as well as tandem gear, there are weight restrictions that must be adhered to-or the dropzone can have their 'right' to use some manufacturers gear if they do not follow that manufacturers rules regarding this gear=this is especially true with tandem gear.).

Safetly does not only include you, as a skydiver, but the plane, pilot, other skydivers, (instructors included while you are learning) and spectators (if there are any).

Some things which we do not know about, prior to becoming skydivers are things such as the weight restrictions allowed on the back of the plane during 'jump run' (the stage you are at the door=rear of the plane-ready to jump)
This is for the safety of the pilot, plane and other skydivers. As the plane will stall if there is too much weight at the exit area-(back of the plane)

If that isnt scary eough (to think one person, or a couple if they do not know these rules) could potentially take down a whole plane full of skydivers or at least get them all to evacuate the plane, including the pilot and allow the plane to crash alone-either scenario is horrible-one just does not involve loss of life.

Now during your training stage-regardless of wether you have the $ to buy special tandem gear just to fit you in it, or not-you can not skydive at this weight, regardless of how fit you are. You can be a world class athlete in some sport where your size is an asset, and be physically fit enough to participate in this sport, you still are not necessariy "ok" to skydive.

It's been said more often then not, that skydiving is "99% mental and 1% what ever" type of sport=physcial fitness did not enter that equaion. Clearly you must have some fitness abilities-even to easily lift yourself in and out of the plane, get gear on etc.

Then there is the aspect that a Tandem instructor MUST be able to manage your and their weight (not only themselves physically-be able to lift you, with their own strength, to adjust the harness prior to jumping)

This is one aspect of the reasoning why each tandem instructor has their own 'weight limit' they will take a passapger. I know one tandem instructor who will take a person up to 270 lbs-which is more then any of the other tandem instructors in our dropzone-who limi theirs to 240lbs. This is purely due to the fact that the guy taking the 270b ones is a very fit, strong (yet little in physical size) instructor as well as extremely experienced and happens to be the tandem instructor who takes on 'special' jumpers such as those of us with paralysis, MS, and other disabilities.

Having said that, I hope you can see that it is NOT because we do not want you to participate in our sport, or that we do not want to help you find a place to jump we are trying to help you by telling you the various factors affecting the reasons why you can not jump safelly a that weight.

I hope you will be able to overocme your disability to the point that you will be able to either deal with the consequences of your choices when you are of jumping weight (generally that is determined by the gear-what size is available as well as the comfort level of the dropzone you go to.

Surely we want every peron to have the option to try out the sport, but some individuals just are not able to do so, in their current life situaiton. another example may be a blind person firmly believing the can jump-well who is going o take the risk of teaching this person to jump safely?-not many instructors in the world may be willing to give that a try.

The will power you have, perhaps you can dedicate the next couple of years into figuring out how you will be able to deal with the weight, get some of it reduced, weither that is surgical stomach reduction, or other measures dedicated to those individuals for whom they are appropriate, or wether it is doing some excertize that is safe for you, until the weight starts to shed offl] yes its true often the weight comes back again, if we 'diet' but if you want to get a tandem jump in, and see what this sport is like, then decide if it is worth if for youto loose the weight, even for that one jump, then if you gain it back, you allready know what it is like to jump and hopefully that feeling, the desire to do it again, to get to the point in skydivng that you will start to seriously learn the sport and will require more individual attention as you are learning.

These are some thoughts for you to consider. I'm sorry to tell you, that I do not see any possibility for youto skydive at that weight.

To become active member in the Bonus Days Club you must very narrowly escape eternal freefall ... one exciting time.)-Pat Works

[keithbar 1]

feel free to p. m me any time I've been up to 270 or so and down to 220 or so all my adult life. and I've been jumping for 30 years so i have a bit of exp. as a " big boy" skydiver

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[davelepka 4]

220? That's close to half the weight of the OP. Think about the times when you were 270, how did that experience jumping compare to jumping at 220? Can you even imagine doing it at 320? Let alone 420?

Is it just me, or is everyone esle waiting for the 'updates' from the OP? Last we heard he was planning to contant equipment manufacturers and wind tunnels and promised updates.

Does, "Sorry, we can't help you" not count as an update?

[bozo 0]

Ive been watching this thread since my "buy the golfclubs" advice and I didnt offer that advice without background......like Keith im a big guy , always have been and my body paid the price.
The OP has his own ideas and wont be dissuaded by people with 1000s and 1000s of jumps that know the facts.
Personally I hope someone doesnt fall in the hole his body will make on the dz if anyone allows the whale butt to jump.

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[BillyVance 34]

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Ive been watching this thread since my "buy the golfclubs" advice and I didnt offer that advice without background......like Keith im a big guy , always have been and my body paid the price.
The OP has his own ideas and wont be dissuaded by people with 1000s and 1000s of jumps that know the facts.
Personally I hope someone doesnt fall in the hole his body will make on the dz if anyone allows the whale butt to jump.

Best. Post. Of. Thread.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[BillyVance 34]

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Personally I hope someone doesn't fall in the hole his body will make on the dz if anyone allows the whale butt to jump.

Cause even Divot would get lost in the hole if he fell in.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[bozo 0]

Best. Post. Of. Thread.

I WIN I WIN I WIN hahahahaha

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[deltron80 0]

Yes..OP please provide us with an update! Can you post some of the responses you got from manufacturers??

[FlyingFrank 0]

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Yes..OP please provide us with an update! Can you post some of the responses you got from manufacturers??

I'm interested in hearing what they told you, as well.

Some people spend their whole lives afraid to die that they never truly live.

[turtlespeed 212]

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Personally I hope someone doesn't fall in the hole his body will make on the dz if anyone allows the whale butt to jump.

Cause even Divot would get lost in the hole if he fell in.

Heh - Divot would maybe trip over it.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun