The Future of Aviation

[billvon 2,400]

>H Y D R O G E N

>The most common element in the universe. And it's emissions are clean...
>just H2O.

Unfortunately it's not that common here. (Or more accurately, it's common, but it comes attached to other things, like oil and water.) You can split the water to get hydrogen, but then you need to get the energy to do that from somewhere. You can get it from oil, but then you're back to the same ol' problem.

Methane, on the other hand, can be made from garbage, and can both be used as a fuel for internal combustion engines and to drive fuel cells.

[PiLFy 0]

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catapult jumps

http://www.trebuchet.com/

[popsjumper 2]

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Methane, on the other hand, can be made from garbage, and can both be used as a fuel for internal combustion engines and to drive fuel cells.

...and jump planes already have on-board fuel generation capability.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[airtwardo 6]

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Methane, on the other hand, can be made from garbage, and can both be used as a fuel for internal combustion engines and to drive fuel cells.

...and jump planes already have on-board fuel generation capability.

Let's not get into rocket propulsion.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[sundevil777 93]

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>H Y D R O G E N

>The most common element in the universe. And it's emissions are clean...
>just H2O.

Unfortunately it's not that common here. (Or more accurately, it's common, but it comes attached to other things, like oil and water.) You can split the water to get hydrogen, but then you need to get the energy to do that from somewhere. You can get it from oil, but then you're back to the same ol' problem.

Methane, on the other hand, can be made from garbage, and can both be used as a fuel for internal combustion engines and to drive fuel cells.

Solar and wind power are especially well suited to be used to split water. No need to store power in batteries, you just store the hydrogen.

http://ieahia.org/pdfs/honda.pdf

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[airtwardo 6]

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://regmedia.co.uk/2006/10/24/marweb.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/24/giant_model_plane/&usg=__H1PLUIIIJ8QHoIlMd7yyMKnm-9I=&h=189&w=300&sz=11&hl=en&start=17&sig2=PFOzKYLAsvO-K_DM4KivAA&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=XXKmxFUAMUae8M:&tbnh=73&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Drubber%2Bband%2Bairplane%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4GGLG_enUS308US308%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=4IXkTITbEIWclgePzqyNDg


Missed it by that much...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Wings-n-Things 0]

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>H Y D R O G E N

>The most common element in the universe. And it's emissions are clean...
>just H2O.

Unfortunately it's not that common here. (Or more accurately, it's common, but it comes attached to other things, like oil and water.) You can split the water to get hydrogen, but then you need to get the energy to do that from somewhere. You can get it from oil, but then you're back to the same ol' problem.

Methane, on the other hand, can be made from garbage, and can both be used as a fuel for internal combustion engines and to drive fuel cells.

The same can be said for electric cars and such. But it's only a matter of time and advancing technology before water cracking can be done cheaply and easily. At that point we'll have the cleanest and most plentiful fuel source in the universe... make it from water, and the exhaust is water. It's really a no-brainer.

Card carrying member of the
Nanny State Liberation Front

[billvon 2,400]

>But it's only a matter of time and advancing technology before water
>cracking can be done cheaply and easily.

Well, right now the only way to do it really cheaply on a large scale is via thermal dissociation; we'd need high temperature gas reactors (nuclear that is) to do that. If we have those available, then I could see it being a good energy transport medium.

>At that point we'll have the cleanest and most plentiful fuel source in the
>universe... make it from water, and the exhaust is water. It's really a
>no-brainer.

You could also combine it with CO2 from the air and make methane. Then when you burn it you get the water and CO2 back, so there's no net change. The advantage there is that methane is a lot easier, cheaper and safer to store; heck, most people already have a methane pipe going to their house.

The main problems for hydrogen usage on aircraft are size of the tanks, weight of the tanks and crash safety. To fit enough hydrogen to power an airplane you have to pressurize them to 5000-8000PSI, and that's a lot of energy to deal with in a crash. They're also physically big; you'd end up losing cabin space.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi gunit,

Might I suggest a good book on the fate of the world when the oil is gone:

THE LONG EMERGENCY by James Kuntsler.

I do not agree with everything that he writes but one scenario, that is supported by a good number of academics, is that mankind will fail to survive the end of oil.

Spend just five minutes of your life just looking around you at all of the stuff that you see that is a product of oil. You can start with your clothing. Scary IMO.

But what do I care; I'll be long gone.

JerryBaumchen

PS) I am no Prophet of Doom but I did find it a very good read.

[Bertt 0]

Well, there's this: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/7894000/Boeing-unveils-Phantom-Eye-hydrogen-powered-spy-plane.html

The article talks about a Ford 2.3 litre, 150 hp engine. That's about the size for a C-182 type airplane, and you could rig an engine like that to run on methane if you wanted to.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[davelepka 4]

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The article talks about a Ford 2.3 litre, 150 hp engine. That's about the size for a C-182 type airplane

It's closer to a 172 type airplane than a 182. You would need at least an extra 100hp to power a 182 that was being used to haul jumpers. An extra 120hp would be ideal.

[jerolim 7]

What about this for energy storage :
http://news.techworld.com/sme/3218381/nano-capacitors-may-soon-beat-lithium-batteries-say-intel-researchers/?olo=rss

[timmyfitz 0]

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>Yeah but how would you efficiently store it?

You could compress air, charge batteries or spin up a flywheel.

Flywheels would not work well for airplanes because of precession effects of the gyroscopic forces.

[airtwardo 6]

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>Yeah but how would you efficiently store it?

You could compress air, charge batteries or spin up a flywheel.

Flywheels would not work well for airplanes because of precession effects of the gyroscopic forces.

Two of 'em counter rotating at the same speed...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Arvoitus 1]

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Hi gunit,

Might I suggest a good book on the fate of the world when the oil is gone:

THE LONG EMERGENCY by James Kuntsler.

I do not agree with everything that he writes but one scenario, that is supported by a good number of academics, is that mankind will fail to survive the end of oil.

Spend just five minutes of your life just looking around you at all of the stuff that you see that is a product of oil. You can start with your clothing. Scary IMO.

But what do I care; I'll be long gone.

JerryBaumchen

PS) I am no Prophet of Doom but I did find it a very good read.

Ironically reading Kunstler & Co. was one of my main reason to quickly get into skydiving. I figured I might as well as do this while its still available.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[TampaPete 35]

Two would only double the gyroscopic effect.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi Arvoitus,

If you liked that book might I suggest:

THE LIFE AND DEATH OF PLANET EARTH by Peter Ward & Donald Brownlee.

Then you will know, not only after the oil is gone, but when everything is gone.

JerryBaumchen

[shayelk 0]

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it's only a matter of time and advancing technology before water cracking can be done cheaply and easily. At that point we'll have the cleanest and most plentiful fuel source in the universe... make it from water, and the exhaust is water. It's really a no-brainer.

cracking water takes more energy then u'll get burning it's products. physics a bitch ;)

[gunit 0]

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Hi gunit,

Might I suggest a good book on the fate of the world when the oil is gone:

THE LONG EMERGENCY by James Kuntsler.

I do not agree with everything that he writes but one scenario, that is supported by a good number of academics, is that mankind will fail to survive the end of oil.

Spend just five minutes of your life just looking around you at all of the stuff that you see that is a product of oil. You can start with your clothing. Scary IMO.

But what do I care; I'll be long gone.

JerryBaumchen

PS) I am no Prophet of Doom but I did find it a very good read.

Hah, yeah I tend to agree the human race is completely fucked. From the earths point of view it will probably be good riddence once we wipe ourselves out.

And yeah I'm only 25 but I guess il be gone in 50 years or so. won't affect me much either i hope

[MikeJD 0]

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I always wondered what would happen to skydiving once oil ran out. And from this article they hint that it might not be too far off.

Seems like it would be balloon jumps all the way?

How are you planning to fuel your burner?

[Andy9o8 0]

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- I'm pretty sure the first parachutist was a sheep tossed out of a tower in the 1700's.

Ah. I knew the tradition of sex on the DZ got its start somewhere.

[Bertt 0]

It takes more energy to charge a battery than you get back out of it, but that allows you to exchange an inconvenient or unreliable source of energy for something more useful.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[billvon 2,400]

>How are you planning to fuel your burner?

Tethered 4000 foot helium balloon.

[airtwardo 6]

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>How are you planning to fuel your burner?

Tethered 4000 foot helium balloon.

How the gonna make the balloon?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[riggerrob 558]

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Two would only double the gyroscopic effect.

................................................................

Making for a super stable airplane.
You would not have to bother with all those silly dihedral, decalage, horizontal stabilizers, fins, trim tabs, etc. ... but it would be a bitch to turn!!!!!
Hah!
Hah!