AggieDave 6 #201 September 11, 2012 QuoteOr maybe someone gave you a boot in the arse earlier in your career. Or maybe you just got lucky. I got lucky early on. Then I got a boot up the ass about canopy flight before I got too far down the high performance road. Scott Miller helped pull that boot out and then teach me how to fly right. Many others followed after him. I'm not perfect and I have made mistakes, but if you've seen the stuff I said about your "window of opportunity" in regards to your turn and never trying to salvage a swoop, then you'll know that I tried to keep myself out of situations that put me in a hole. Pond water hurts, but it doesn't hurt as bad as making a divot in the grass. The point is that you can make a safer progression. Too far, too small, too soon nearly always ends in tragedy. Literally 99% of the time. That 1% that makes it typically realize the errors of their ways, backs off, gets help and starts making better choices.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #202 September 12, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteNot bulletproof, but not injured. Yet. But of course you take that as proof of your skill. Just like Sangi and the guy this thread is about. I wish you luck. So at what number of jumps will I be unlucky to be injured vs. being a dickhead who was going too fast in canopy progression You are involved in the most dangerous aspect of skydiving in the history of the sport. You have made 500 jumps in 5 years. The big boys you wish to emulate learned their skills making hundreds if not thousands of jumps a year. At your present level of jumping you will always be the “dick head” going too fast. It’s a shame your attitude has not changed since we had this exchange. Sparky http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4116061#4116061My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 100 #203 September 12, 2012 QuoteQuoteOr maybe someone gave you a boot in the arse earlier in your career. Or maybe you just got lucky. I got lucky early on. Then I got a boot up the ass about canopy flight before I got too far down the high performance road. Scott Miller helped pull that boot out and then teach me how to fly right. Many others followed after him. I'm not perfect and I have made mistakes, but if you've seen the stuff I said about your "window of opportunity" in regards to your turn and never trying to salvage a swoop, then you'll know that I tried to keep myself out of situations that put me in a hole. Pond water hurts, but it doesn't hurt as bad as making a divot in the grass. The point is that you can make a safer progression. Too far, too small, too soon nearly always ends in tragedy. Literally 99% of the time. That 1% that makes it typically realize the errors of their ways, backs off, gets help and starts making better choices. Well said. Are you listening Docpop?.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #204 September 12, 2012 Quote So at what number of jumps will I be unlucky to be injured vs. being a dickhead who was going too fast in canopy progression I never broke anything and never had to have any surgeries due to swooping or skydiving in general.lucky dickhead scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5.samadhi 0 #205 September 12, 2012 QuoteQuoteOr maybe someone gave you a boot in the arse earlier in your career. Or maybe you just got lucky. I got lucky early on. Then I got a boot up the ass about canopy flight before I got too far down the high performance road. Scott Miller helped pull that boot out and then teach me how to fly right. Many others followed after him. I'm not perfect and I have made mistakes, but if you've seen the stuff I said about your "window of opportunity" in regards to your turn and never trying to salvage a swoop, then you'll know that I tried to keep myself out of situations that put me in a hole. Pond water hurts, but it doesn't hurt as bad as making a divot in the grass. The point is that you can make a safer progression. Too far, too small, too soon nearly always ends in tragedy. Literally 99% of the time. That 1% that makes it typically realize the errors of their ways, backs off, gets help and starts making better choices. I feel like this forum is fortunate to have you posting here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #206 September 12, 2012 Quote I feel like this forum is fortunate to have you posting here. you are very correct, in many ways scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #207 September 12, 2012 Quote Quote So at what number of jumps will I be unlucky to be injured vs. being a dickhead who was going too fast in canopy progression Once a dickhead always a dickhead. Ah well, yes - that's true. So, back to my original point - do we have any info on this guy's accident?"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topdocker 0 #208 September 12, 2012 Quote Quote Quote So at what number of jumps will I be unlucky to be injured vs. being a dickhead who was going too fast in canopy progression Once a dickhead always a dickhead. Ah well, yes - that's true. So, back to my original point - do we have any info on this guy's accident? Which one??!! That's the point of this thread. (and the advice...) topJump more, post less! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #209 September 12, 2012 QuoteQuoteAh well, yes - that's true. So, back to my original point - do we have any info on this guy's accident? Which one??!! That's the point of this thread. (and the advice...) top QuoteDoes anyone know any facts about this incident other than his canopy? ^ That one."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topdocker 0 #210 September 12, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteAh well, yes - that's true. So, back to my original point - do we have any info on this guy's accident? Which one??!! That's the point of this thread. (and the advice...) top QuoteDoes anyone know any facts about this incident other than his canopy? ^ That one. See Incidents Forum: Hi-performance canopy, low performance human topJump more, post less! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #211 September 12, 2012 QuoteQuoteI got lucky early on. Then I got a boot up the ass about canopy flight before I got too far down the high performance road. Scott Miller helped pull that boot out and then teach me how to fly right. Many others followed after him. I'm not perfect and I have made mistakes, but if you've seen the stuff I said about your "window of opportunity" in regards to your turn and never trying to salvage a swoop, then you'll know that I tried to keep myself out of situations that put me in a hole. Pond water hurts, but it doesn't hurt as bad as making a divot in the grass. The point is that you can make a safer progression. Too far, too small, too soon nearly always ends in tragedy. Literally 99% of the time. That 1% that makes it typically realize the errors of their ways, backs off, gets help and starts making better choices. Well said. Are you listening Docpop?. Yep I am listening and actually I could have written the same piece about me. I always build in a margin of safety and have had my "boot up the ass" incident (x2). I am progressing in a way that involves coaching, never pushing beyond what I am reasonably comfortable doing and have not been subject to a talking to about unsafe flying. I listen to the little voice of doubt about things like iffy winds etc and am happy to abort a swoop if the situation indicates that things aren't right. I don't expect my typing this to change anyone's mind, but you asked me a question and my answer is "Yes, I am always listening to those who know better than me"."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #212 September 12, 2012 Quote See Incidents Forum: Hi-performance canopy, low performance human top I read that, but there is really no more info there about the actual incident itself."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #213 September 12, 2012 Quote Quote See Incidents Forum: Hi-performance canopy, low performance human top I read that, but there is really no more info there about the actual incident itself. Doc... what is it your looking for? Clearely, your not interested in anything anyone has to say? I started this sport back in the 70's... many of the posters above have tons more experienc, knowlege, and jumps than I do!! Where do you suppose that puts you in the experience totem pole? I listen to these people, you should do the same. IMHO and stated as honestly and clearly as I can muster without losing my patience. Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #214 September 12, 2012 QuoteDoc... what is it your looking for? I am looking for details of what happened in this incident. Type of turn, estimated altitude, weather conditions, WL, eye-witness accounts etc, etc..... You know, the usual things people discuss about incidents instead of all this chest-beating about "We all knew this was going to happen". I am not looking for comments on my jumping choices."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #215 September 12, 2012 Quote Quote Doc... what is it your looking for? I am looking for details of what happened in this incident. I am ignoring comments on my jumping choices. FIFY Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abedy 0 #216 September 12, 2012 Quote "Used Velo, very small/cool, jumped once - never landed, slight stain". Our rigger here used to tell mad skillz wonderz to buy a brand new canopy (when they told him they intended on buying this used small and fast canopy). "Why brand new?" "Coz yer gonna have ta sell it soon and a new one sells better." "Why am I going to sell it?" "Coz yer gonna bite the dust ridin' it, very soon!"The sky is not the limit. The ground is. The Society of Skydiving Ducks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #217 September 12, 2012 If i ever behave like this please pull me aside and have a talk with me. Thank youLife through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #218 September 12, 2012 QuoteQuoteDoc... what is it your looking for? I am looking for details of what happened in this incident. Type of turn, estimated altitude, weather conditions, WL, eye-witness accounts etc, etc..... You know, the usual things people discuss about incidents instead of all this chest-beating about "We all knew this was going to happen". I am not looking for comments on my jumping choices. You are looking in the wrong thread. It would be in the incident thread and it appears that no one in the know is interested in posting that information. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 100 #219 September 12, 2012 Quote"We all knew this was going to happen". I doubt anyone here claims to be a clairevoyant. Yet there seem to be some pretty accurate predictions made by a few people. Where do you think that comes from Doc?. As for the incident itself, no one seems to know much about it. Perhaps the victim will come on here and tell us when he is in a little less pain. Based on what we already know about him, it is prolly not too difficult to work out most of the story. A number of mistakes were made. a few of them before the last one. Thats the only one we don't really have any information on. The outcome, we know. One thing is for sure. His accident didn't come as a big surprise. In some cases we recognise that disaster is inevitable. At the moment, quite a few who know the signs, think you are on the same track. Try to stay off it. Much less painful.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #220 September 12, 2012 QuoteSo, back to my original point - do we have any info on this guy's accident? "This jumper was flying an ultra-high performance, cross-braced canopy with a wing loading of 2:1 or greater and failed to negotiate a large planet that moved into his vertical path resulting in planetary contact at an impact angle greater than zero. The combination of the jumper's airspeed and angle of contact proved great enough to cause significant injury, but not great enough to cause death. Post incident conversations with this jumper also proved the planetary contact was not of great enough force to cause a significant change in attitude, which will likely result in this jumper providing future lessons to others."Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topdocker 0 #221 September 12, 2012 QuoteQuoteSo, back to my original point - do we have any info on this guy's accident? "This jumper was flying an ultra-high performance, cross-braced canopy with a wing loading of 2:1 or greater and failed to negotiate a large planet that moved into his vertical path resulting in planetary contact at an impact angle greater than zero. The combination of the jumper's airspeed and angle of contact proved great enough to cause significant injury, but not great enough to cause death. Post incident conversations with this jumper also proved the planetary contact was not of great enough force to cause a significant change in attitude, which will likely result in this jumper providing future lessons to others." "Immovable attitude met immovable object." topJump more, post less! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #222 September 12, 2012 Quote"This jumper was flying an ultra-high performance, cross-braced canopy with a wing loading of 2:1 or greater OK - that's new info as far as anything I have read. Thanks."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #223 September 13, 2012 Quote Quote "This jumper was flying an ultra-high performance, cross-braced canopy with a wing loading of 2:1 or greater OK - that's new info as far as anything I have read. Thanks. I think that may have been posted with tongue in cheek. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #224 September 13, 2012 QuoteQuote"This jumper was flying an ultra-high performance, cross-braced canopy with a wing loading of 2:1 or greater OK - that's new info as far as anything I have read. Thanks. That's an assumption on my part based on what I witnessed him jumping in the original post. The specifics of this guy and his situation is not nearly as important as the headline. Noobs + Velos = bad.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shredex 0 #225 September 15, 2012 If you pee out of an airplane, will it turn the clouds below yellow? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
