This guy insisted he was ok to jump a Velo

[JackC1 0]

Quote

Are people really such big pussies nowadays that they get their fweelings hurt by few disagreeing words on the Internet?

It's got fuck all to do with feelings. The more you ratchet up your asshole score with bullshit like this, the less people listen to you.

[Joellercoaster 6]

Quote

On any other message board on the internet, with the exception of Internet slums like 4Chan, a lot of these post would have gotten the poster banned.

I think we must be looking at different Internets.

And if this place bothers you, I suspect you've never seen 4chan.

OTOH: You are fairly new to jumping, as is the guy with the Velo. I'm not picking on you here, it will change with time. But, your reactions have one thing in common: they both come from not having been confronted with the ugly, personal reality of skydiving accidents yet. And it's even worse when it happens from something obviously dumb.

The harsh tone comes from a need to communicate the harsh reality. And believe me, it doesn't come anywhere near to doing that

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[Joellercoaster 6]

Quote

Quote

Are people really such big pussies nowadays that they get their fweelings hurt by few disagreeing words on the Internet?

It's got fuck all to do with feelings. The more you ratchet up your asshole score with bullshit like this, the less people listen to you.

Au contraire.

The assholes on this forum are the ones I listen to.

I love skydiving, and I want to keep doing it for a very long time.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[chuckakers 370]

Quote

I think this place has almost completely outlived it's usefulness. It's now just a place where skygods come to prey on fresh meat and rubber neckers watch the carnage.

Really? Which one are you?

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[obelixtim 100]

Quote

I wonder why that is...

Many different reasons....

Not all are non posters for the single reason that snugly fits your scenario though.

A lot of people like to just lurk. Some only PM. Thats fine.

And 95 % of skydivers prolly don't even know DZ.com even exists.

I'm surprised that some people cannot handle a bit of robust debate and are apparently frightened off by it. How do they handle it when something serious is going down?.

Quote

Ever been in a traffic jam on the freeway and when you get to the end it's because someone crashed on the other side of the median? People love to watch carnage, but not many want to be part of it.

And have you ever been on a DZ when someone crashes and burns.

Dealing with the blood, guts, splintered bone, shit, snot and pain, while trying to keep your head in the right place so you can actually be of some help.

I don't want to be part of that either. Sometimes idiots don't give me a choice though.

Somebody has to do it, We can't all drive off, or stand around in small groups speaking in hushed voices and sniffing into our hankerchieves, much as we'd like to.

Its a dirty sometimes bloody job, and somebody has to get their hands dirty. People do it so some of you don't have to.

I can't fathom why people would protest a bit of lively debate by a few who want to prevent or limit that.

Still waiting for some workable suggestions from the anti bully brigade. So far I've seen nothing.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Quote

Quote

On any other message board on the internet, with the exception of Internet slums like 4Chan, a lot of these post would have gotten the poster banned. But then I read on to see moderators not only allowing this behavior but encouraging it? I'm seriously amazed

Show me the other internet message board where 2 or 3 of it's members will be dead by the end of the year due to the topic of the forum. Then show me where open discussion of how to avoid those fatalities is discouraged...

Motorcycle boards.

Especially the sportbike forums. I lurk a few of them and they are pretty hard on the squids. New to riding and have a GSX-R 1000? (rough equivalent of 300 jumps and a Velo).
You will get hammered on.

Squid - Stupidly quick, underdressed, imminetly dead. Bike equivalent of DGIT.

To those who think this is bullying:
This isn't about hammering on someone for doing something stupid. This is about someone making a deliberate chioce that has killed or maimed many jumpers. And taken out more than a few innocent bystanders (by-fliers?) in the process.
This is trying to tell someone that they aren't special, different or unique. That the ground won't care when they hit it, and they don't have the mad skilz to deal with all the possibilites (or even most of them) their choice brings.
Some listen, some fight the advice but figure it out later, some learn by getting seriously hurt, some only have 2 or 3 seconds left in their life to realize their mistake.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[rifleman 61]

Personally, I'd rather someone told me loudly and publicly (either on the forums or at the DZ) that I'm being an asshat and to get my shit sorted out.

I haven't personally witnessed a skydiving fatality in the short time I've been jumping but as an ex-soldier I've seen more than a few friends get injured or die and it's not an experience I'm eager to repeat and believe me I've seen some shit in my time, people bleeding out through so many holes in them that a fucking octopus couldn't stay on top of it; arms and legs missing, exposed bones, internal organs and on one occasion brains.

I accept that every time I jump I could be dead in less than 2 minutes if everything goes to shit and if someone tells me (in whatever way) that I fucked up I'll listen and take note for two reasons:

1) You have to be alive to get an ass-chewing

2) I'd rather have someone (CCI/Experienced Jumper/Coach) tell me I fucked up than have to call my wife and tell her which hospital/morgue I'm in because I didn't listen to advice.

Atheism is a Non-Prophet Organisation

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

For me, I find myself reading less and less, despite the potential of learning something that could help prevent me having an accident.

Please let's not do that. What's more important, the tone or the message. Take advantage of every learning opportunity regardless of its presentation. Be selfish with it. Take it for your own personal use. Who knows" That one piece of info you passed over just may be the one that could have let you prevent that accident.

Quote

...I am after all just a noobie who knows bugger all, and how dare i speak up.

Some of our best discussion, and arguments, are initiated by young jumper's comments. Keep it coming! What you post could be the very thing that another young jumper is thinking and wondering about. It could be the very thing that helps them survive just that much longer.

Well, I could have put it like this:
Get off your dead ass noob and post your damned questions. You sitting there withholding info could get you and some other noob maimed or killed.


How's that?


The message is the same.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

It's got fuck all to do with feelings. The more you ratchet up your asshole score with bullshit like this, the less people listen to you.

Bullshit. It's ALL about feelings.
People get their panties all wadded up when they are so concerned about "my feelings".

"You hurt my feelings so I'm not gonna listen to you."
Yep. Maturity....gotta love it.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[billvon 2,396]

>It's now just a place where skygods come to prey on fresh meat and
>rubber neckers watch the carnage.

Which would make you a skygod?

It's a funny phenomenon on the Internet. People post on boards saying "people who post here are assholes." Yet they never see themselves in that group - because _they_ are the only reasonable ones who see the truth.

If you're here calling people names you are no different than anyone else doing the same. If you don't like it, don't do it. If you do like it, it's a little hypocritical to tell other people they can't do what you are doing.

[JackC1 0]

Quote

>It's now just a place where skygods come to prey on fresh meat and
>rubber neckers watch the carnage.

Which would make you a skygod?

It's a funny phenomenon on the Internet. People post on boards saying "people who post here are assholes." Yet they never see themselves in that group - because _they_ are the only reasonable ones who see the truth.

If you're here calling people names you are no different than anyone else doing the same. If you don't like it, don't do it. If you do like it, it's a little hypocritical to tell other people they can't do what you are doing.

Hey, I didn't drag this guy in off the street and post his fuck ups for everyone to kick around. I didn't post his youtube account or his facebook page. I didn't stick the boot in along with the rest of the mob. I only said the bashing had gone too far. My mistake.

[obelixtim 100]

Quote

Hey, I didn't drag this guy in off the street and post his fuck ups for everyone to kick around. I didn't post his youtube account or his facebook page. I didn't stick the boot in along with the rest of the mob. I only said the bashing had gone too far. My mistake.

Oh boo hoo...cry me a river....

You think the foolishness should just be ignored.

People can learn important lessons from others screw ups, more so if the screwup has been accompanied by wilful ignoring of sound safety practises in attempt to tick the "cool" box..

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[robinheid 0]

Quote

Maybe not this guy, but maybe the next guy who doesn't know what he doesn't know. Remember, the people these messages reach are often unknown because they read it and say "Huh, never thought about all those angles, maybe I'm not ready to start doing [X] yet." But they never post and say "Wow, thanks for opening my eyes." They just make a better decision.

+1!

LOL... I was just about to post these words myself until I saw that you'd done it already.

Had a similar thing happen one time at Perris when a low-timer had some kind of hard-pull/premature brake fire sort of adventure after a 2K pull -- and I said "why are you pulling so low?"

And she said "because I have a C license now so I can."

So I explained how modern-canopy opening distances are much longer than those being jumped when the 2k limit was set, and some other related things, and as I did about a half dozen other low-timers slowly gathered around and listened.. and when my little impromptu talk was over, two of them said "I just got my "C" too and I'll think I'll stay with 2500 or above. Thanks!"

So really, regardless of whether your words sink into the brain of your target, you never know into whose brain they may sink, with positive results down the line that no one will ever know about because the result was something bad that didn't happen.

44

SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.)

"The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

[yoink 321]

This thread has devolved in to people being pussies if they can't take critisism, or bullies if they give it.


YAWN.


Chad - to get this topic back on thread, and I suspect to lay to rest this argument that is now nothing about you, I have one question:

Were you serious about hanging up the Velo and what will you be jumping instead?

As you've been on the receiving end of all this, what's YOUR opinion on the way it's developed? That would be honestly useful feedback for those of us that try to encourage safer behaviour....

Obviously you didn't think upsizing was an option when you were spoken to in person at the time, but was it the fact that it was made public, or the tone that convinced you to alter your canopy choice? Could anything have been done differently to have the same result?

[chuckakers 370]

Quote

This thread has devolved in to people being pussies if they can't take critisism, or bullies if they give it.


YAWN.


Chad - to get this topic back on thread, and I suspect to lay to rest this argument that is now nothing about you, I have one question:

Were you serious about hanging up the Velo and what will you be jumping instead?

As you've been on the receiving end of all this, what's YOUR opinion on the way it's developed? That would be honestly useful feedback for those of us that try to encourage safer behaviour....

Obviously you didn't think upsizing was an option when you were spoken to in person at the time, but was it the fact that it was made public, or the tone that convinced you to alter your canopy choice? Could anything have been done differently to have the same result?

For the record and as mentioned in my initial post, Chad has no choice but to upsize if he plans to continue to jump at Spaceland. Management politely explained that he is welcome to jump the Velo - just not there.

He was jumping a Stiletto 135 @ 1.5 or 1.6:1 before the Velo. At less than 300 jumps I believe that is still too much performance, but what do I know?

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

Yet they never see themselves in that group - because _they_ are the only reasonable ones who see the truth.

I take exception to that. I AM an asshole.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTVpxxzb2Dc

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[davelepka 4]

Quote

Hey, I didn't drag this guy in off the street and post his fuck ups for everyone to kick around. I didn't post his youtube account or his facebook page. I didn't stick the boot in along with the rest of the mob. I only said the bashing had gone too far. My mistake

I didn't drag the guy to the DZ and force him to jump a Velo loaded at 2.0. That was his choice, and there are consequences for his actions. He knew damn well what he was doing, and that it was going against the wishes of the DZ managemment, as well as the opinion of the majority of the skydiving public.

Keep in mind that the 'punishment' has to fit the crime. In this case, the guy blew it big time. It wasn't a case of a slight over-estimation of ability, or 'pushing' the envelope, he went far and above what any normal jumper would think of as 'prudent', and in turn he gets a reaction of a similar caliber.

Despite what some have suggested, there's no 'bullying' going on here. This guy stepped up and made his position clear, he thought it was OK to do what he did and he was ready for he fallout. Well, much like all the other consequences he knows nothing about, this is one of them. He took a chance, and made it out alive (and with both legs working), but his ego and reputation didn't fair so well.

Lesson learned? Maybe, maybe not. However, beyond the jumper in question, I think the position of the majority of high time jumpers here was made clear to all who read the thread, so there's a chance that it made an impression others, and that's a worthwhile benefit.

If I have to make an example out of a guy who is proven to not be a team player in order to possibly reach others who may be willing to play by the rules, than so be it. Once the jumper in question made his choices, I quit worrying about his thoughts and feelings. He had no concern for the thoughts and feelings of the DZ management, the staff who is trying to make a living, and the other jumpers there looking to have a good time. If he can so carelessly cast those feelings aside, I can do the same for his feelings.

[Squeak 17]

Quote

Hey, I didn't drag this guy in off the street and post his fuck ups for everyone to kick around. I didn't post his youtube account or his facebook page. I didn't stick the boot in along with the rest of the mob. I only said the bashing had gone too far. My mistake.

I did both of those things.
Here's why
1. to confirm this was the same guy Chuck spoke to.
2. to show that his ability level on his own videos demonstrates a level not yet ready for a HP canopy.
3. I know of 3 people who have been told to NOT jump a canopy at one DZ and have taken themselves off to another DZ and jump there, potentially putting others at risk. Putting a face to a name MIGHT help other people at the neighbouring DZ identify this guy and hopfully assist him in better canopy choice and flight.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[blkhwk91b 0]

Quote

Conversation follows…

Me: Hey man, what canopy you jumping?

Him: Velocity 111.

Me: How much you weigh?

Him: 190.

Me: How many jumps do you have?

Him: 280.

Me: You’re gonna die. <---Frickin' Awesome!! Straight outta a movie. Good for you Bro!! Chump needs lesson or two.

Back when I went through my instructors would have put a foot in my ass if I had even thought of something so dumbass. I thank them to this day for their passion!

"Better to have a short life that is full of what you like doing, than a long life spent in a miserable way." - Alan Watts

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

Quote

The people who don't post on here ...

I wonder why that is...

Ever been in a traffic jam on the freeway and when you get to the end it's because someone crashed on the other side of the median? People love to watch carnage, but not many want to be part of it.

People watch the carnage because they HAVE to not because they want to...

It a programed in survival trait, when we see viloence we look to try to learn...'gee if I don't wanna end up without a head, maybe better not stick it in THERE.'

Look at any playground...kids will fight to watch a fight.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Quote

Quote

The people who don't post on here ...

I wonder why that is...

Ever been in a traffic jam on the freeway and when you get to the end it's because someone crashed on the other side of the median? People love to watch carnage, but not many want to be part of it.

People watch the carnage because they HAVE to not because they want to...

It a programed in survival trait, when we see viloence we look to try to learn...'gee if I don't wanna end up without a head, maybe better not stick it in THERE.'

Look at any playground...kids will fight to watch a fight.

The Dirty Laundry Syndrome?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

The people who don't post on here ...

I wonder why that is...

Ever been in a traffic jam on the freeway and when you get to the end it's because someone crashed on the other side of the median? People love to watch carnage, but not many want to be part of it.

People watch the carnage because they HAVE to not because they want to...

It a programed in survival trait, when we see viloence we look to try to learn...'gee if I don't wanna end up without a head, maybe better not stick it in THERE.'

Look at any playground...kids will fight to watch a fight.

The Dirty Laundry Syndrome?

No actually there was study done in relation to cause & effect regarding television / movie / video game ~ death & destruction and WHY people espically kids are so drawn in.

Caveman type thing, look, learn & live...if ya just stick your head in the sand and ya end up takin' it in the ass.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[skyjumpenfool 2]

Quote

if ya just stick your head in the sand and ya end up takin' it in the ass.

Can I use that as my new sig line?

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[Krip 2]

Quote

Quote

if ya just stick your head in the sand and ya end up takin' it in the ass.

Can I use that as my new sig line?

Sure if you give the author credit.
"if ya just stick your head in the sand and ya end up takin' it in the ass" From Twardo.

One Jump Wonder

[zen_mtn_climber 0]

Quote

Quote

if ya just stick your head in the sand and ya end up takin' it in the ass.

Can I use that as my new sig line?

D'oh! Beat me to it!