This guy insisted he was ok to jump a Velo

[popsjumper 2]

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Dave and obelixtim Just admit your assholes cause you CARE and thats your way of showing it!

For a young jumper, you have unusually good insight on the motivations of old-timers.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[obelixtim 100]

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It is still bullying and in my opinion that is always wrong. Not only is it wrong, but it is counter-productive.

What planet are people living on here?.

Get real!!!.

I've already said its not tiddleywinks we are playing here. This issue is DEADLY serious, and handwringing and bleating about "bullying" a knuckle head really gets my goat.

Save your compassion, and go visit some of the para and quadriplegics who will never skydive or live a normal life again....because there are quite a few out there. The lucky ones prolly got buried. The others will regret till the end of their now miserable lives they didn't take notice of the warnings, advice and cautions they were given.

"Please don't do that" just doesn't work with these guys.. Something more forceful can, and often does. I've used it to good effect several times. And if it doesn't, they can never say they weren't clearly warned.

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This sort of brow-beating makes people shut down and not want to come back to dz.com. If they are gone from here - how can you expect to influence them through the forums at all?

Obviously it seems to you that people get some sort of pleasure out of trying to keep people safe.

I can assure you it is not a pleasant or nice job....we are skydivers too, and would much rather be skydiving and enjoying ourselves, rather than chasing boneheads around trying to save them from themselves, loading ambulances and scraping bodies up.

Its a rotten, usually thankless job, I can tell you.

And if someones feelings get hurt when they pull stupid shit and cop a blast, well, tough!!. They got off lightly, in my book.

As long as we've got people acting as apologists for this nonsense, then we'll never get on top of the problem. Thats a huge part of the problem IMO, We aren't sociologists here. Everyone needs to grow up and take ownership of the sport, instead of validating stupidity.

And no, they won't be gone from DZ.com at all. They'll be featuring in the Incidents thread instead.

Of course, then us bullies and wolves will be getting told off for daring to call them stupid, after the fact.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[popsjumper 2]

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Given that it's saved a few lives - there are pluses to it.

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That is pure supposition. We should really try to deal in facts. It may have saved lives but we can never know.

So, your idea is that if you can't prove that what you say will get satisfactory results (regardless of how you say it) then STFU? You can't prove your touchy-feely approach works either so now what? STFU?

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It is still bullying and in my opinion that is always wrong. Not only is it wrong, but it is counter-productive.

So, even if bullying works don't do it and let the bozos do himself or others harm?

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This sort of brow-beating makes people shut down....

Well, yes, sometimes. Those who cannot separate the message from the tone do that. Other, more mature people do manage to separate the two. It's part of growing up.

"Waaaaaa! That man talked nasty to me!"
Gimme a break.

Wooof

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[DBCOOPER 1]

How does the DZO know about your talk with the new guy? And when they say "thats ok, I know what I'm doing" what do you do? Get off the load, call them an asshole, pull their reserve? No you go talk with the DZO who's the one that can do something... bunch of people standing around saying your gonna hurt yourself doesn't work.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[Remster 24]

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This sort of brow-beating makes people shut down and not want to come back to dz.com.

There's an easy fix for that. Create another account with an anonymous profile...

Remster

[craigbey 0]

Please excuse this thread drift from the prior thread drift...

"cop a blast"?

[obelixtim 100]

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To "cop a blast"?

To receive a short, sharp telling off about what a naughty boy you just were.

As in: "YOU F_ _ _ __ _ _ IDIOT!!!."

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[DaVinciflies 0]

In my opinion......

If you think you are saving people by typing some harsh words on an internet forum, then you are deluding yourself.

If those people will not listen to being told in person at the dropzone by people who have just seen what they are doing wrong, then they are certainly not going to respond to someone in internet-land coming on all high and mighty.

All this sort of animosity does is create an environment where a few vocal people drive away well-meaning jumpers with questions.

Look at this thread for example. How far has it got us? I think by now most us believe that Chad will not be hanging up his Velo at all, or if he does he may go to something "docile" like a Crossfire2 99.

There is a lot of self-delusion going on here.

[NWFlyer 2]

Maybe not this guy, but maybe the next guy who doesn't know what he doesn't know. Remember, the people these messages reach are often unknown because they read it and say "Huh, never thought about all those angles, maybe I'm not ready to start doing [X] yet." But they never post and say "Wow, thanks for opening my eyes." They just make a better decision.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[DaVinciflies 0]

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Maybe not this guy, but maybe the next guy who doesn't know what he doesn't know. Remember, the people these messages reach are often unknown because they read it and say "Huh, never thought about all those angles, maybe I'm not ready to start doing [X] yet." But they never post and say "Wow, thanks for opening my eyes." They just make a better decision.

You could well be right - but those are the people who listen to reasoned argument and don't need to "cop a blast" in the first place.

In either case, the bullying serves no purpose other than to massage the ego of the bully.

[chuckakers 370]

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I think this lynch mob witch hunt has gone far enough. Are we going to allow a bunch of vicious personal slander by participants here, based upon only guesswork and supposition, by people who don't even know the victim? Even using videos that are not of him to criticize him, and posting his personal facebook page! What's next? Posting his home address, credit report and photos of his family? Is that the kind of forum behavior we want here? Is that the kind of person you want to be known as? It reminds me of a bunch of high school bullies picking on a nerd. And just like the high school bullies, everyone is afraid to stand up to them. But not me.

Thank you so much for saying something! On any other message board on the internet, with the exception of Internet slums like 4Chan, a lot of these post would have gotten the poster banned. But then I read on to see moderators not only allowing this behavior but encouraging it? I'm seriously amazed.

Good Lord people, butch up. There is no lynch mob here and no bullying either. What IS happening here are people posting their opinions on an issue, and a damned important one at that. And in the process maybe some people are learning a few things.

The PC crowd really chaps my ass. It's gotten to the point where expressing your views with any degree of honesty is considered bullying if it might hurt some pansy's feelings.

Bullying? Really? F*cking get over yourselves. Real bullying occurs when a person can't defend themselves. This is a stinking forum where anyone who is the target of negative comments can respond with just as much power and influence as everyone else. And in case you haven't noticed, the so-called victim of this "witch hunt" has posted as well. He is welcome to join the fray in his defense or even express his views about what the "lynch mob" has to say - which he has done. That is his choice just as it is your choice to stay off the thread if you don't like what others have to say.

My bet is that Chad has learned a lot from this thread, even if he had to sift through some colorful and pointed language to get at it. Hopefully the sharp-edged comments will help him realize how seriously some of us take this issue.

Bullying? Some of you people watch too much network TV. Bet you thought the Swine flu was gonna kill us all too.

BTW, Chad - if you want to make a hop or two you know where to find me.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[chuckakers 370]

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bunch of people standing around saying your gonna hurt yourself doesn't work.

As usual, DB....

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_threaded;post=4304710;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[craigbey 0]

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To receive a short, sharp telling off about what a naughty boy you just were.

As in: "YOU F_ _ _ __ _ _ IDIOT!!!."

That's kind of what I thought, just wasn't sure. My KPM (Kiwi Processing Module) probably needs to be recalibrated.

Thanks.

[nigel99 143]

I tend to agree with John. I am all for discipline and when a quiet word has failed, have no problem with someone being called out over the loudspeaker.

Some people thrive on being bad boys though (recent revelation to me). Squeak can comment as to whether I am over reacting, but a good friend of mine jumped for the first time in a year last weekend. He pulled off a dangerous landing stunt to show off (essentially a 720 turn in the main landing area). The chief instructor gave him advice on how to induce speed safer, he totally blew it off. He's got 1200 jumps so not a newbie. What I learnt from it all was observing how he totally did not 'hear' what Don said to him.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[obelixtim 100]

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In my opinion......

If you think you are saving people by typing some harsh words on an internet forum, then you are deluding yourself.

If those people will not listen to being told in person at the dropzone by people who have just seen what they are doing wrong, then they are certainly not going to respond to someone in internet-land coming on all high and mighty.

All this sort of animosity does is create an environment where a few vocal people drive away well-meaning jumpers with questions.

Look at this thread for example. How far has it got us? I think by now most us believe that Chad will not be hanging up his Velo at all, or if he does he may go to something "docile" like a Crossfire2 99.

There is a lot of self-delusion going on here.

I'm not talking internet fairy world here, I'm talking the real world, you know,, dropzones, where people live, or can die for a variety of reasons.

And where you see animosity, I see people attemptng to get across a message that is necessary, however it is worded.

The only delusions here come from people who think staying silent, and a mealy mouthed, peace, love and mung beans approach is somehow going to make the problem go away.

I'm not expecting my posts to change the mind of a single bonehead....they don't work that way, unfortunately. For them.

My opinions are aimed at others who might just see the message, and think seriously about it, and better still, decide to get involved with solving the problem, whichever method they choose..

Asking the many lurkers in here to give voice to the message, might, in the long term, help change the live and let die culture that blights our sport.

Because in reality, the problem cannot be solved by the few people prepared to take responsibility for the safety of others, the most powerfull message will only come if everyone gets involved and clearly spells out what is, and what isn't acceptable. LONG, LOUD and CLEAR.

How long do you think the people who run DZ's are going to be willing to take responsibility for the lives of others?. Its difficult enough as it is, without allowing the jackasses to run amok. It gets rather wearying when the line of jackasses just keeps on coming. Same modus operandi, over and over and over. The sense of humour tends to wear a little thin after a while.

Without those dedicated individuals who are willing to look after the lives of others, you have no skydiving at all. Do you think its easy to deal with serious injury or smashed up bodies??...because thats what some of us have to do.

THATS reality, no delusion there.

We have to use any method that works.

And if a few egos, and idiots get trampled on to make that happen, then its a cheap price to pay.

Next time someone splashes themself down on the planet, please offer your assistance to the clean up crew. Then you may begin to understand why, in your world, they suffer from "delusions".

Don't shoot the messenger, until you've walked in his shoes.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[JohnnyMarko 1]

I love this website

[davelepka 4]

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On any other message board on the internet, with the exception of Internet slums like 4Chan, a lot of these post would have gotten the poster banned. But then I read on to see moderators not only allowing this behavior but encouraging it? I'm seriously amazed

Show me the other internet message board where 2 or 3 of it's members will be dead by the end of the year due to the topic of the forum. Then show me where open discussion of how to avoid those fatalities is discouraged.

Like it or not, we live in the land of the free and the home of the brave. What that means is that we can't seem to get our shit together and come up with any sort of sensible limits and educational requirements for canopy use or selection. The one side of that coin is that anyone is free to jump whatever they can sneak past the DZO/S&TA, and the other side of that coin is that I'm free to call that jumper out for being an asshole for doing that.

You take the good, you take the bad, you take them all, and there you have the facts of life.

[Sky_doggy 0]

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In my opinion......

If you think you are saving people by typing some harsh words on an internet forum, then you are deluding yourself.

If those people will not listen to being told in person at the dropzone by people who have just seen what they are doing wrong, then they are certainly not going to respond to someone in internet-land coming on all high and mighty.

All this sort of animosity does is create an environment where a few vocal people drive away well-meaning jumpers with questions.

Look at this thread for example. How far has it got us? I think by now most us believe that Chad will not be hanging up his Velo at all, or if he does he may go to something "docile" like a Crossfire2 99.

There is a lot of self-delusion going on here.

I couldn't agree more. I am a noobie and I am fast forming the opinion that this forum is just a "clash of the titians"... titians being whose has the biggest ego with the most to say. I followed a posting where a guy made a bad decision and landed on a roof. There was much to be learned, but by the time all the titians (aka skygods) had weighed in, the thread was just diluted. The lesson for me from that that thread was if I ever do anything dumb don't share it.

Quite frankly, I think the moderators really need to give some serious thought about how this forum is conducted. If you guys really think that it is okay for people to behave in such an obnoxious manner in the belief that it might save someones life, you need to think again. There is a bunch of people like me who will absorb and learn from a reasoned discussion. I think you are loosing your target audience.

For me, I find myself reading less and less, desite the potential of learning something that could help prevent me having an accident.

So, i will now hunker down and hide in my nuclear shelter lest the skygods find me. I am after all just a noobie who knows bugger all, and how dare i speak up.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[billvon 2,391]

>That is pure supposition. We should really try to deal in facts. It may
> have saved lives but we can never know.

It almost certainly saved Sangi's.

And yes, we can never know 100%, We can never know if the FJC saves any lives. People might just survive just fine if you strap a rig on them and kick them out the door at 12,500 feet with no instruction. But the smart money is on the "saves lives" square.

>It is still bullying and in my opinion that is always wrong.

Really? A DZO who tells a jumper who is jumping a Velocity at 100 jumps is foolish, and they can't jump it there, is wrong?

>This sort of brow-beating makes people shut down and not want to
>come back to dz.com.

And the browbeating they get from the DZO may cause them to not come back to the DZ. Which is good. This isn't bowling. You can die doing this.

[JohnnyMarko 1]

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>That is pure supposition. We should really try to deal in facts. It may
> have saved lives but we can never know.

It almost certainly saved Sangi's.

Want a cookie?

[obelixtim 100]

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I couldn't agree more. I am a noobie and I am fast forming the opinion that this forum is just a "clash of the titians"... titians being whose has the biggest ego with the most to say.
Quite frankly, I think the moderators really need to give some serious thought about how this forum is conducted. If you guys really think that it is okay for people to behave in such an obnoxious manner in the belief that it might save someones life, you need to think again. There is a bunch of people like me who will absorb and learn from a reasoned discussion. I think you are loosing your target audience.

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And a little update on his condition:

The injuries are quite serious.
His femur is broken into a few fragments. One lung is badly bruised with drainage installed, but he can breathe by himself now. (assuming he couldn't for some time). Some heart concussion was also mentioned. The brain concussion was described as "serious"
So far they are most worried about the shattered vertebrae, which is scheduled for 6 hours of surgery(although there seems to be no serious nerve damage).

Not my words. An early report on our friend Sangi.

I'm sure the titan that saved his life while he lay smashed on the DZ was able to usefully draw on his monstrous ego to keep Sangi alive till the meatwagon arrived...

You want more?

Go to the swooping forum, and read the thread entitled "Post your hot swoop X Rays". It is a quite graphic read of the consequences of screwing up a HP landing, in the words of the individuals involved.

If you can handle it.

Then come back on here and tell us titans with massive egos that we are out of line.

Lets see....wolves, skygods, egocentric titans, delusional bullies....

Who would have thought we really are such nasty, horrible, people....

Yet to see any really constructive/useful comments about alternative ways to solve the problem of senseless death and injury on the DZ's all of us use.

How about it?.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[JackC1 0]

It doesn't matter what your intentions are. The more you act like an asshole, the less people listen to you.

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this forum is just a "clash of the titians".

The lesson for me from that that thread was if I ever do anything dumb don't share it.

I think you are loosing your target audience.

I find myself reading less and less,

So, i will now hunker down and hide in my nuclear shelter lest the skygods find me.

All this sort of animosity does is create an environment where a few vocal people drive away well-meaning jumpers with questions.

This sort of brow-beating makes people shut down and not want to come back to dz.com.

I think this place has almost completely outlived it's usefulness. It's now just a place where skygods come to prey on fresh meat and rubber neckers watch the carnage.

[obelixtim 100]

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I think this place has almost completely outlived it's usefulness. It's now just a place where skygods come to prey on fresh meat and rubber neckers watch the carnage.

I disagree.

The people who don't post on here but PM me agreeing with me, seem to outnumber the few who refuse to see the real point of why we post, instead whining about a bit of blunt talk about how we who run DZ's see things.

But you are still welcome to show up at the DZ's we run and enjoy ourselves. Just remember that others are working hard to keep you and your mates safe.

And that NEVER stops, not even when jumping stops for the day.

I hope you can help us keep everyone safe. You do have a part to play.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[Arvoitus 1]

Are people really such big pussies nowadays that they get their fweelings hurt by few disagreeing words on the Internet?

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[JackC1 0]

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The people who don't post on here ...

I wonder why that is...

Ever been in a traffic jam on the freeway and when you get to the end it's because someone crashed on the other side of the median? People love to watch carnage, but not many want to be part of it.