wmw999 2,123 #26 February 5 19 hours ago, winsor said: Fascinating that you have drawn these conclusions. Everything you think you know is wrong. And you’re the arbiter of others’ experience? Please give details — preferably quantifiable ones, since qualitative ones are open to everyone’s interpretation, not just yours. Maybe woke is just the acknowledgment that we shouldn’t judge others unless we’ve walked a mile in their shoes. Since there are some shoes I can’t walk in (like those of a good-looking 6’ tall white man with a good education), I’ll generally defer to others to interpret their own experiences Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #27 February 5 On 2/4/2024 at 8:31 AM, winsor said: Presumption of what constitutes 'good' vs. 'bad' is a faulty basis for one's argument. Interesting comment, considering there is more than one post from you explaining how the Muslim faith is inherently evil because the writings in the Koran are bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #28 February 5 5 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: Interesting comment, considering there is more than one post from you explaining how the Muslim faith is inherently evil because the writings in the Koran are bad. The problem with fundamentalism is the fundamentals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 126 #29 February 8 On 2/4/2024 at 2:13 PM, billvon said: "It is, however, a very useful dog whistle for conservatives. They can use to mean anything that conservatives hate and can't really say out loud." Bingo, a great summation.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 126 #30 February 8 On 2/4/2024 at 6:00 PM, brenthutch said: Woke: “wokeness" include a rejection of American exceptionalism; a belief that the United States has never been a true democracy; that people of color suffer from systemic and institutional racism; that white Americans experience white privilege; that African Americans deserve reparations for slavery and post-enslavement discrimination; that disparities among racial groups, for instance in certain professions or industries, are automatic evidence of discrimination; that U.S. law enforcement agencies are designed to discriminate against people of color and so should be defunded, disbanded, or heavily reformed; that women suffer from systemic sexism; that individuals should be able to identify with any gender or none; that U.S. capitalism is deeply flawed” so you do not have a definition of 'woke' either it would seem.... you just have some thin example of what you think it could be. making false claims along the way, to back it up. making claims as evidence to backup other claims is not a methodology that we are aware of. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 384 #31 February 8 33 minutes ago, tkhayes said: so you do not have a definition of 'woke' either it would seem.... you just have some thin example of what you think it could be. making false claims along the way, to back it up. making claims as evidence to backup other claims is not a methodology that we are aware of. Not my definition, I cut and pasted it from Wikipedia, needless to say I disagree with most of it. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,255 #32 February 8 3 hours ago, brenthutch said: Not my definition, I cut and pasted it from Wikipedia, needless to say I disagree with most of it. If you disagree with most of the way it defines woke then why on earth would you post it in the first place? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 384 #33 February 8 2 minutes ago, jakee said: If you disagree with most of the way it defines woke then why on earth would you post it in the first place? Someone asked for a definition of woke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,255 #34 February 8 (edited) 6 minutes ago, brenthutch said: Someone asked for a definition of woke And you replied with something that you do not think answered the question? Why? Did you not think it would have been a better idea to try and find something that you thought did answer the question? Edited February 8 by jakee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #35 February 8 4 hours ago, brenthutch said: Not my definition, I cut and pasted it from Wikipedia Wikipedia's definition is "an adjective derived from African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) meaning 'alert to racial prejudice and discrimination,' " Here's what you left out of your post: "By 2020, many on the political right and some in the center in several Western countries began using the term sarcastically as a pejorative for various leftist and progressive movements and ideologies. . . . this has partly been a reaction to the right-wing politics of U.S. President Donald Trump, who was elected in 2016, but also to a growing awareness regarding the extent of historical discrimination faced by African Americans. According to Perry Bacon Jr., ideas that have come to be associated with "wokeness" include a rejection of American exceptionalism; a belief that the United States has never been a true democracy; that people of color suffer from systemic and institutional racism; that white Americans experience white privilege; that African Americans deserve reparations for slavery and post-enslavement discrimination; that disparities among racial groups, for instance in certain professions or industries, are automatic evidence of discrimination; that U.S. law enforcement agencies are designed to discriminate against people of color and so should be defunded, disbanded, or heavily reformed; that women suffer from systemic sexism; that individuals should be able to identify with any gender or none; that U.S. capitalism is deeply flawed; and that Trump's election to the presidency was not an aberration but a reflection of the prejudices about people of color held by large parts of the U.S. population." Bacon was listing the misleading definitions that right wingers were using. This is why you have to attribute quotes that you didn't write yourself. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #36 February 8 1 hour ago, billvon said: This is why you have to attribute quotes that you didn't write yourself. Plagiarism is a career-ending offense, if not a capital offense, if done by a liberal, a member of a minority, or an educated elitist. It is a badge of honor for MAGA types. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,255 #37 February 8 That's why I was trying to pin down why he quoted it or whether he agrees with it - but obviously Brent never has enough integrity to take ownership of anything he posts. So we're left with the notion that he deceptively edited a statement describing what right wingers wrongly think woke is so that it appeared as an actual definition of woke, then deceptively suggested it's what Wikipedia says woke is, then said he doesn't agree with it but for some reason had to post it because he was asked what woke is. Make sense to anyone? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #38 February 8 21 minutes ago, jakee said: Make sense to anyone? Did he annoy you? Then he wins. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,255 #39 February 8 1 hour ago, billvon said: Did he annoy you? Then he wins. Did he annoy you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #40 February 8 1 hour ago, jakee said: Did he annoy you? No, I usually just skim his posts for personal attacks and the like. When I noticed he misquoted Wikipedia I figured I'd post the actual material and tell him to not do it again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,255 #41 February 9 7 hours ago, billvon said: No, I usually just skim his posts for personal attacks and the like. When I noticed he misquoted Wikipedia I figured I'd post the actual material and tell him to not do it again. So it’s possible for you to read his posts, take the time to research and reply, tell him he’s wrong, but not be annoyed. Are you special? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olofscience 422 #42 February 9 16 hours ago, billvon said: Bacon was listing the misleading definitions that right wingers were using. And Brent implied that those were the consensus definitions left wingers were using. Can't get more dishonest than that. Not only a strawman argument, but deliberately cherry-picked to be deceptive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,341 #43 February 9 58 minutes ago, olofscience said: And Brent implied that those were the consensus definitions left wingers were using. Can't get more dishonest than that. Not only a strawman argument, but deliberately cherry-picked to be deceptive. Right. That's what he does. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #44 February 9 7 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said: Right. That's what he does. Yeah, ad hominem circumstantial and abusive - that's the ticket! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,914 #45 February 9 4 minutes ago, winsor said: Yeah, ad hominem circumstantial and abusive - that's the ticket! I am more critical of those who respond to trolls than I am to the trolls themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olofscience 422 #46 February 9 15 minutes ago, winsor said: Yeah, ad hominem circumstantial and abusive - that's the ticket! Must have hit a nerve. Ad hominem means attacking the person. I was merely describing what he did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
